This came up in the last play session. Wasn't able to give a clear
answer on how to play the card after checking the errata. Requesting
clear definition on how the card is played. Is it Option 1, 2, 3 or am
I completely off-base here?
Option 1 - Card allows Malkavians to play Action Cards with Action
Modifiers while allowing Reaction Cards to be played in response to the
acting Malkavians (this includes the current Player)
Option 2 - Card allows Malkavians to take actions but without any
cards, Action or Action Modifiers. Other players would be able to
react to the actions the Malkavians are conducting and may use Reaction
cards with the exception of the player to whom the Malkavians are
piggyback riding their actions on. That player is unable to play
Reaction cards as it is still that individual's turn.
Option 3 - Card allows Malkavians to play Action Cards but no Action
Modifiers. Other players would be able to react to the actions the
Malkavians are conducting and may use Reaction cards with the exception
of the player to whom the Malkavians are piggyback riding their actions
on. That player is unable to play Reaction cards as it is still that
individual's turn.
Thanks
Michael Eichler
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
On Tue, 7 Mar 2000 ramst...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Option 1 - Card allows Malkavians to play Action Cards with Action
> Modifiers while allowing Reaction Cards to be played in response to the
> acting Malkavians (this includes the current Player)
This one is close, but not correct.
The card allows Malkavians to take actions - and so allows them to use
action cards. An acting minion can always use action modifiers, so they
can play those too. Reaction cards can only be played by the vampires of
Methuselahs who aren't the acting minion, so anyone other than the acting
minion's Methuselah's vampires can play them.
So, if I use Dollface out of turn to call Kine Resources contested, I
cannot use my other vampires to play Surprise Influence to pass it.
--
James Coupe
In article <Pine.SOL.4.21.000307...@red.csi.cam.ac.uk>,
James Coupe <jr...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Mar 2000 ramst...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > Option 1 - Card allows Malkavians to play Action Cards with Action
> > Modifiers while allowing Reaction Cards to be played in response to the
> > acting Malkavians (this includes the current Player)
>
> This one is close, but not correct.
>
> The card allows Malkavians to take actions - and so allows them to use
> action cards. An acting minion can always use action modifiers, so they
> can play those too. Reaction cards can only be played by the vampires of
> Methuselahs who aren't the acting minion, so anyone other than the acting
> minion's Methuselah's vampires can play them.
Correct. Madness Network allows Malkavians to take actions during other
players' minion phases. It doesn't change any of the rules regarding those
actions, though.
The acting minion can play an action card [1.6.3.1] and action modifiers
[1.6.3.2]. Reaction cards can be played by ready untapped minions in response
to "an action taken by another Methuselah's minion" [1.6.3.5]
> So, if I use Dollface out of turn to call Kine Resources contested, I
> cannot use my other vampires to play Surprise Influence to pass it.
Correct.
--
LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules:
http://www.wizards.com/VTES/rules.asp[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <8a39c6$r0g$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
vte...@wizards.com (LSJ) wrote:
> In article <Pine.SOL.4.21.0003071017220.13794-
100...@red.csi.cam.ac.uk>,
> James Coupe <jr...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> > On Tue, 7 Mar 2000 ramst...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > > Option 1 - Card allows Malkavians to play Action Cards with Action
> > > Modifiers while allowing Reaction Cards to be played in response
to the
> > > acting Malkavians (this includes the current Player)
> >
> > This one is close, but not correct.
> >
> > The card allows Malkavians to take actions - and so allows them to
use
> > action cards. An acting minion can always use action modifiers, so
they
> > can play those too. Reaction cards can only be played by the
vampires of
> > Methuselahs who aren't the acting minion, so anyone other than the
acting
> > minion's Methuselah's vampires can play them.
>
A side question about this: can i block an action
a Madness Malkavian is taking in my turn?
I always assumed (and played) that no, i cannot,
but i got some doubt about that.
So, how exactly this block thing works?
Thanks
Aemilianus, Prince of Rome.
[ quoted text not captured ]
tetragr...@my-deja.com wrote:
> A side question about this: can i block an action
> a Madness Malkavian is taking in my turn?
Yes. The Malkavian takes an action as if it was the natural turn with
the exception of Master cards. Which means that if a Malkavian with
fortitude attempts to bleed you after your minion phase is over, you may
block and he may use Dawn Operation and Rotschreck.
Hope this helps,
Noal McDonald
Anarch Troublemaker of Farmington Hills, MI
National Jyhad League
--
"I don't think that Witchcraft is a real religion."
"There ought to be limits to freedom."
--George W. Bush
Don't vote for a son of a Bush.
[ quoted text not captured ]
tetragr...@my-deja.com wrote:
> A side question about this: can i block an action
> a Madness Malkavian is taking in my turn?
If the action is directed at you (or is undirected and
you are the predator or prey of the acting Methuselah),
yes.
Specific card text (Eagle's Sight and Anneke's and Enzo's
abilities) can be used as normal, of course.
> I always assumed (and played) that no, i cannot,
> but i got some doubt about that.
> So, how exactly this block thing works?
As described in the rulebook, sec 6.2.2.1 "Who May Attempt to Block".
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.geocities.com/vtesrep
In article <8a8pqs$s87$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Noal McDonald <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> tetragr...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > A side question about this: can i block an action
> > a Madness Malkavian is taking in my turn?
>> Yes. The Malkavian takes an action as if it was the natural turn with
> the exception of Master cards. Which means that if a Malkavian with
> fortitude attempts to bleed you after your minion phase is over, you
may
> block and he may use Dawn Operation and Rotschreck.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Noal McDonald
> Anarch Troublemaker of Farmington Hills, MI
> National Jyhad League
Thank you, but i think there's something wrong with these rulings.
In the Vtes booklet p.11, Action Modifier "Can only be used when
it is your turn", and Reaction cards "Can only be played when
it is not your turn" (p.12).
Also, to be honest, this way the Madness Network it's almost worthless
to play with. If a player can block actions during its/her turn,
(then the ones performed by Madnessed Malkavians)
as a default rule one could block even its own minions' actions,
and all of this sounds a bit absurd to me.
The Madness Network fuctionings it's clearly based on the
assumption that a Methuselah can't block
during its turn, as he cannot play Reaction card
(rule default shown on booklet p.12).
I can imagine that the thing was set as it is now
to balance the card, but let's say that i don't agree
very much with this.
Better to forbid the playing of action card
to balance "Madness actions", assuming the same rule given
for action modifier cards (again, Vtes booklet p.11).
Best.
Aemilianus, Prince of Rome.
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <8abc15$obn$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
tetragr...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <8a8pqs$s87$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,> In the Vtes booklet p.11, Action Modifier "Can only be used when
> it is your turn", and Reaction cards "Can only be played when
> it is not your turn" (p.12).
> Also, to be honest, this way the Madness Network it's almost worthless
> to play with. If a player can block actions during its/her turn,
> (then the ones performed by Madnessed Malkavians)
> as a default rule one could block even its own minions' actions,
> and all of this sounds a bit absurd to me.
> The Madness Network fuctionings it's clearly based on the
> assumption that a Methuselah can't block
> during its turn, as he cannot play Reaction card
> (rule default shown on booklet p.12).
First off the V:TES booklet is way out of date.
The official rulebook on the WotC site states the following about
actions/action modifiers/reactions in section 1.6.3.
1. Action and political action cards: A minion can play an
action card to take an action other than the default actions (default
actions are actions like hunt that don’t require a card). Only one
action card can be played for the action; action cards cannot be used
to modify other actions. Political actions are a special type of action
used to call referendums (votes). They can also be played for a vote
during a referendum (see Politics, sec. 6.3).
2. Action modifier cards: The acting minion can play these
cards to modify his action. For example, some action modifiers
increase the acting minion’s stealth or bleed amount, or give him
more votes. A minion cannot play the same action modifier more
than once during a single action.
5. Reaction cards: A ready untapped minion can play a reaction
card in response to an action taken by another Methuselah’s minion
(an action taken by one of a Methuselah’s minions cannot be reacted
to by any of her own minions). A minion cannot play the same
reaction card more than once during a single action. A reaction card
does not tap the minion using it.
----------
You will notice there is no reference any longer to who's turn it.
Hope this helps
Joe Churchill
V:EKN Prince of Columbia, SC
Editor: Tzimisce Clan Newsletter
http://www.warghoul.com[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <8abd6n$p9r$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
[ quoted text not captured ]
Thanks for the clarifications.
Still, the Madness Network remains a very poor card
this way.
Thanks again, Aemilianus
[ quoted text not captured ]
On Fri, 10 Mar 2000 tetragr...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Thanks for the clarifications.
> Still, the Madness Network remains a very poor card
> this way.
You are, I am afraid, very much mistaken.
Madness Network is a highly viable card, with several decks designed to
utilise it. One of the first I heard off was Mad Masika's Harem, designed
to utilise his untap ability. This is also found with vampires using
Homunculus and Protean to untap between turns to bleed. The other major
deck is the Out of Turn combat deck which is very difficult to play, but
very good.
Madness Network can be a *difficult* card to play, but it is very, very
far from poor.
--
James Coupe
In article <Pine.SOL.4.21.00031...@red.csi.cam.ac.uk>,
[ quoted text not captured ]
Everyone got his tastes.
Best.
Aemilianus.
>
> --
>
> James Coupe[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <8abt76$5tm$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
tetragr...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <8abd6n$p9r$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,> Thanks for the clarifications.
> Still, the Madness Network remains a very poor card
> this way.
I don't know if I would classify it as a "very poor card."
It can be used easily for pool gain. Look at Victoria's card text: "If
Victoria is ready during your master phase, you may forfeit the Edge to
gain 2 pool."
So you bleed successfully with Victoria at the end of your predator's
minion phase, you gain the edge. Your predator finally finishes his
turn. It's your untap, hey you got the edge, gain 1 pool. It's now
your master phase, forfeit th edge gain 2 more pool.
Another interesting concept, Malks/!Nos. R. David Zopf's deck, "Use
that Advantage" http://www.warghoul.com/sets/decks/tchar08161999.html
Joe Churchill
V:EKN Prince of Columbia, SC
Editor: Tzimisce Clan Newsletter
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Joe C. <tzimi...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> Another interesting concept, Malks/!Nos. R. David Zopf's deck, "Use
> that Advantage" http://www.warghoul.com/sets/decks/tchar08161999.html
It looks like a deck based on my "Networking Adavantage" deck that I
almost played at Origins two years ago:
http://www4.ncsu.edu/~rfgrau/jyhad/decks/net080199.html
Noal
--
"I don't think that Witchcraft is a real religion."
"There ought to be limits to freedom."
--George W. Bush
Don't vote for a son of a Bush.
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <8ajj11$bqh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Joe C. <tzimi...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> In article <8abt76$5tm$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> tetragr...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > In article <8abd6n$p9r$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> > Thanks for the clarifications.
> > Still, the Madness Network remains a very poor card
> > this way.
>
> I don't know if I would classify it as a "very poor card."
I was refering as a poor card with the rule that
a Methuselah can block, during its turn, acting Madnessed Malkavians.
>
> It can be used easily for pool gain. Look at Victoria's card text: "If
> Victoria is ready during your master phase, you may forfeit the Edge
to
> gain 2 pool."
>
Victoria can be blocked or deflected or redirected as normal if she
attempt to bleed just before your next turn.
It's a nice a well know trick this, but again, a not very strong
one when a Methuselah can blocks a Madnessed Victoria in any turn.
Best.
Aemilianus, Prince of Rome.
> So you bleed successfully with Victoria at the end of your predator's> minion phase, you gain the edge. Your predator finally finishes his
> turn. It's your untap, hey you got the edge, gain 1 pool. It's now
> your master phase, forfeit th edge gain 2 more pool.
>> Another interesting concept, Malks/!Nos. R. David Zopf's deck, "Use
> that Advantage" http://www.warghoul.com/sets/decks/tchar08161999.html
>> Joe Churchill
> V:EKN Prince of Columbia, SC
> Editor: Tzimisce Clan Newsletter
>[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <8ajlf2$dog$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Noal McDonald <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> Joe C. <tzimi...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > Another interesting concept, Malks/!Nos. R. David Zopf's deck, "Use
> > that Advantage"http://www.warghoul.com/sets/decks/tchar08161999.html>> It looks like a deck based on my "Networking Adavantage" deck that I
> almost played at Origins two years ago:
Yeah, a very good deck, because multiple Advantages make you
gain lot of pools (in addition of the one you gain from the edge
whatsoever). This way makes the Madness Net still got good to play with,
but for i can test, the only one.
Aemilianus.
>
> http://www4.ncsu.edu/~rfgrau/jyhad/decks/net080199.html
>
> Noal
> --
> "I don't think that Witchcraft is a real religion."
> "There ought to be limits to freedom."
> --George W. Bush
> Don't vote for a son of a Bush.
>[ quoted text not captured ]
On Mon, 13 Mar 2000 tetragr...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I was refering as a poor card with the rule that
> a Methuselah can block, during its turn, acting Madnessed Malkavians.
If all actions taking during a Madness Network were unblockable, it would
be ludicrous. All it would mean was that I wait until the end of my
prey's turn and bleed him then, with them all unblockable. Add laptops,
pulses, etc. to taste.
> Victoria can be blocked or deflected or redirected as normal if she
> attempt to bleed just before your next turn.
Only the block would stop her. And Malkavians are well known for their
stealth. It doesn't matter who I bleed to get the edge, I still get it.
> It's a nice a well know trick this, but again, a not very strong
> one when a Methuselah can blocks a Madnessed Victoria in any turn.
Any time an acting minion takes an action, those minions who would
normally be able to block him can block him. It matters not whose turn it
is - the capacity for blocking is merely determined by who controls the
acting minion (for undirected actions) or who the action is directed at
(directed actions). That's how *all* actions work, whether under a
Madness Network or not. Is bleeding no longer a very strong
possibility? That's all the Madness Network deck is doing - it just adds
the capability for pool gain, making a strong deck stronger.
--
James Coupe
On Mon, 13 Mar 2000 tetragr...@my-deja.com wrote:
> whatsoever). This way makes the Madness Net still got good to play with,
> but for i can test, the only one.
Sorry, I cannot parse your sentence, and would appreciate clarification of
your intended meaning before I respond.
--
James Coupe
On Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:28:19 GMT, tetragr...@my-deja.com wrote:
>> I don't know if I would classify it as a "very poor card.">>I was refering as a poor card with the rule that
>a Methuselah can block, during its turn, acting Madnessed Malkavians.
*shrug* They're Malkavians. They come with OBF. You're not supposed
to block them.
>> It can be used easily for pool gain. Look at Victoria's card text: "If
>> Victoria is ready during your master phase, you may forfeit the Edge>to>> gain 2 pool."
>>>Victoria can be blocked or deflected or redirected as normal if she
>attempt to bleed just before your next turn.>It's a nice a well know trick this, but again, a not very strong
>one when a Methuselah can blocks a Madnessed Victoria in any turn.
Two words: Night Moves. Works in an intercept deck too!
Also note that Victoria isn't even the one who has to bleed, so while
she can only Night Moves for +3 stealth, anyone with superior OBF can
do it for +6. Just as an idle note: the next-to-last tourney I
played in, I played my Tzimisce intercept deck. It lives or dies on
the "I can stop anything I don't want to happen" principle, packs a
TON of intercept, and does a lot of deal-making. I attempted to block
a hunt taken by my predator's Agrippina, who had a Laptop and Tasha
Morgan. She successfully generated +6 stealth manually to cover my +5
intercept, and I had used every different intercept card in my deck
(including Cat's Guidance superior). I didn't even BOTHER to go after
superior Night Moves actions. I've never known anyone to waste their
time attempting to stop superior Night Moves in an OBF deck, so
someone using it probably gets through, yanno?
-- Derek
Deafness never kept composers from hearing the music.
It only stopped them hearing the distractions.
>Also note that Victoria isn't even the one who has to bleed, so while
>she can only Night Moves for +3 stealth, anyone with superior OBF can
>do it for +6. Just as an idle note: the next-to-last tourney I
>played in, I played my Tzimisce intercept deck. It lives or dies on
>the "I can stop anything I don't want to happen" principle, packs a
>TON of intercept, and does a lot of deal-making. I attempted to block
>a hunt taken by my predator's Agrippina, who had a Laptop and Tasha
>Morgan. She successfully generated +6 stealth manually to cover my +5
>intercept, and I had used every different intercept card in my deck
>(including Cat's Guidance superior). I didn't even BOTHER to go after
>superior Night Moves actions. I've never known anyone to waste their
>time attempting to stop superior Night Moves in an OBF deck, so
>someone using it probably gets through, yanno?
>
Yes, massive stealth can be SUCH a major pain, even when playing an intercept
deck.
The best card to deal with this of course, is Veiled Sight. Even though it
costs 2 blood, at inferior level, it reduces stealth to nil. Suddenly it
becomes +0 stealth vs. +5 intercept. Of course they *can* still technically
increase stealth, but if you've played it right, they won't be able to because
of action modifier limits.
Seems ironic that one of the best intercept cards is in Chimerstry. Of course
the card is hamstrung by the fact that it IS a Chimerstry card (and who plays
Ravnos?), but it's still a possible (though not very feasible) option against
massive stealth.
Halcyan 2
In article
<B5D5191C8DD6E8CC.FA84CBE2...@lp.airnews.net>,
lor...@yahoo.com (Derek Ray) wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:28:19 GMT, tetragr...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >> I don't know if I would classify it as a "very poor card."
> >
> >I was refering as a poor card with the rule that
> >a Methuselah can block, during its turn, acting Madnessed Malkavians.
>
> *shrug* They're Malkavians. They come with OBF. You're not supposed
> to block them.
>
> >> It can be used easily for pool gain. Look at Victoria's card text:
"If
> >> Victoria is ready during your master phase, you may forfeit the
Edge
> >to
> >> gain 2 pool."
> >>
> >Victoria can be blocked or deflected or redirected as normal if she
> >attempt to bleed just before your next turn.
> >It's a nice a well know trick this, but again, a not very strong
> >one when a Methuselah can blocks a Madnessed Victoria in any turn.
>
> Two words: Night Moves. Works in an intercept deck too!
>> Also note that Victoria isn't even the one who has to bleed, so while
> she can only Night Moves for +3 stealth, anyone with superior OBF can
> do it for +6. Just as an idle note: the next-to-last tourney I
> played in, I played my Tzimisce intercept deck. It lives or dies on
> the "I can stop anything I don't want to happen" principle, packs a
> TON of intercept, and does a lot of deal-making. I attempted to block
> a hunt taken by my predator's Agrippina, who had a Laptop and Tasha
> Morgan. She successfully generated +6 stealth manually to cover my +5
> intercept, and I had used every different intercept card in my deck
> (including Cat's Guidance superior). I didn't even BOTHER to go after
> superior Night Moves actions. I've never known anyone to waste their
> time attempting to stop superior Night Moves in an OBF deck, so
> someone using it probably gets through, yanno?
>
FAR SIGHT?
> -- Derek
>
> Deafness never kept composers from hearing the music.
> It only stopped them hearing the distractions.
>[ quoted text not captured ]
On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 06:36:45 GMT, ravnos...@my-deja.com wrote:
>> (including Cat's Guidance superior). I didn't even BOTHER to go after
>> superior Night Moves actions. I've never known anyone to waste their
>> time attempting to stop superior Night Moves in an OBF deck, so
>> someone using it probably gets through, yanno?
>>>FAR SIGHT?
I assume you mean Veiled Sight. Well, sure, that reduces their
stealth to 0. That looks real neat. Now you just have to be playing
a Ravnos intercept deck, and sure, we see those *all* the bloody time
around here. Maybe if the Ravnos get a Path of their own to reduce
the cost of all those Chimerstry cards we'll see more of them, but
'til then... Blah.
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article
<9F3F9E6A63ECFD86.7665ECE7...@lp.airnews.net>,
lor...@yahoo.com (Derek Ray) wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 06:36:45 GMT, ravnos...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >> (including Cat's Guidance superior). I didn't even BOTHER to go
after
> >> superior Night Moves actions. I've never known anyone to waste
their
> >> time attempting to stop superior Night Moves in an OBF deck, so
> >> someone using it probably gets through, yanno?
> >>
> >FAR SIGHT?
>
> I assume you mean Veiled Sight. Well, sure, that reduces their
> stealth to 0. That looks real neat. Now you just have to be playing
> a Ravnos intercept deck, and sure, we see those *all* the bloody time
> around here. Maybe if the Ravnos get a Path of their own to reduce
> the cost of all those Chimerstry cards we'll see more of them, but
> 'til then... Blah.
>
> -- Derek
>
I agree. I would love to see the Path card. Until then I will
continue to play me Ravnos as best I can. I enjoy the callenge of the
game and will play any clan. And my play group will vouch for me we
have had two Ravnos decks on the table at the same time once or twice.
> Deafness never kept composers from hearing the music.
> It only stopped them hearing the distractions.
>[ quoted text not captured ]
LSJ wrote:
>
>
>
> --
> LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
> Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
> http://www.geocities.com/vtesrep
LSJ's first posting with his new sig/position. Another sign that WW
is serious. I hope they treat you right LSJ!
Chris
--
Tammy Martin 5'7"
Alexander Shorb 2'10"
Chris Shorb 5'11"
Shameless plug:
<http://www.graphicnovels.com/>