This card looks like a winner for Laibon block decks (Osebo, I'm looking
at you...). If you fail to block the action, you might still get to get
into combat with them, and thus jack them up.
Or maybe with some sort of low intercept combat deck - maybe a Laibon
cel guns deck?
What do you folks think?
Familial Bond
Reaction
Cost: 1 blood
Requires a Laibon
Only usable on an action directed at another Laibon you control or on a
bleed against you. +1 intercept. If this block fails, the acting
minion may choose to make the action fail. If the action succeeds, this
Laibon may tap (after resolution) to enter combat with the acting minion.
DRAFT: This Laibon gets +1 intercept.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Personally, I'd rather plan to succeed in blocking than to pay 1 blood
to try to block with a backup chance to beat them up. It could be
good for an Ishtarri block deck, if you actually want to try that.
It's probably not terrible with Guruhi. For Osebo, you have enough +2
intercept cards available that I wouldn't bother with the backup
plan. Less so with Akunanse, but they still have plenty of good
intercept that doesn't cost a blood.
John F. mentioned that it might be good with Osebo if you plan to
bounce, and at the time I agreed, however I no longer do. For one
thing, you'd be spending 1 blood to try to block, then another blood
to bounce them, then they are allowed to cancel the action (no bounced
bleed at +2 stealth for you), and you get to fight them. I think
Osebo can reliably fight acting minions pretty easily without spending
the 2 blood. For a second thing, it's not technically possible,
unless you play with dominate bounce or some form of true untap
(without grafting a discipline, that means another blood for Eluding
the Arms of Morpheus, I believe), because it's tap *to* enter combat
and doesn't work with a tapped vampire - even one who has played a
Wake.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Right, Tap *to* enter combat.
Maybe with an Atonement deck...
Enough Laibon with cel/CEL that are 5 or younger?
best -
chris
On Jun 8, 6:01 pm, librarian <aucti...@superfuncards.com> wrote:
[ quoted text not captured ]
Most obvious use... Your predator bounces a bleed of 7 at 5 stealth to
you? Play this, the acting methuselah can choose to fail the action.
Like a reverse spying mission. Doesn't even require a discipline.
So yes, this card is good.
[ quoted text not captured ]
I guess that depends on metagame. I can't remember the last time I
was bled for more than 4 at more than 1 stealth by a grand predator
without a backup plan...
[ quoted text not captured ]
Kabede Maru and Olugbenga should make good use of it, them and all the
Bamba's they make. I'm working on a small to mid cap Mostly Laibon POT
deck that will use it in stead of rushing backwards. All in all I
think its a solid tool for any Laibon deck that isn't running 20+ AUS
reactions.
Chris Berger wrote:
> I guess that depends on metagame. I can't remember the last time I
> was bled for more than 4 at more than 1 stealth by a grand predator
> without a backup plan.
I see big stealthy bleeds get bounced fairly often. As discussed in
another thread recently, often the best backup plan for the bleed
player is just to not care and oust her prey faster than she
accidentally ousts her grandprey. Responsible bleeding is mostly only
important if you're trying to win a popularity contest.
Jesse
librarian wrote:
> This card looks like a winner for Laibon block decks (Osebo, I'm looking
> at you...). If you fail to block the action, you might still get to get
> into combat with them, and thus jack them up.
As other posters have noted, Osebo are probably the Laibon clan least
likely to get mileage out of this card. Since they already have tons
of unconditional intercept and bounce, a card like this is really just
not that useful for them. If it were free that would be one thing, but
spending blood is generally to be avoided when there are other options
available.
> Or maybe with some sort of low intercept combat deck - maybe a Laibon
> cel guns deck?
The only problem with putting this card in a guns deck is that you
need to actually be untapped to get the full effect. There are ways to
do that, but they tend to either cost blood or be card intensive. The
former is a poor option because FB itself costs blood. The latter is
problematic because celerity is already very card intensive.
I think that the best use for FB is with the Akunanse. They have
access to Freak Drive, Sense the Savage Way, Predator's Communion,
Cat's Guidance, and now Devil Channel: Feet, so it's very easy for
them to be untapped. Also, their combat abilities are quite nasty and
can be built successfully around permanents such as Stampy the
Elephant. Due to the blood cost and the oppurtunity restriction, I'd
keep the numbers of FB in a deck low (4 or below), but it could
definitely help them deal with bounced bleeds and super-stealthy
predators.
Jesse
[ quoted text not captured ]
Pullen wrote:
> Kabede Maru and Olugbenga should make good use of it, them and all the
> Bamba's they make. I'm working on a small to mid cap Mostly Laibon POT
> deck that will use it in stead of rushing backwards. All in all I
> think its a solid tool for any Laibon deck that isn't running 20+ AUS
> reactions.
I think you should reconsider your idea. Unless the 1 intercept is
going to make a big difference, you will pretty much always be better
off rushing proactively than playing this card, for the following
reasons:
1) You can only play it against stealthy bleeds and actions targetting
your minions; you'll have absolutely no defense against votes and some
weird strategies.
2) It costs blood.
3) Part of the effect requires that you be untapped, so you can't
fully use it off a wake, unless you spend even more blood on EtAoM.
4) Your predator still has the option of having the action resolve,
which is not the case when you backrush first.
5) Rushes are proactive and flexible. FB lets your predator decide
when she will fight you.
Jesse
[ quoted text not captured ]
From my point of view it is a good card. I have used it in a Guruhi
deck that cannot generate that much intercept by other means. Either
the +1 interecept is enough to stop the action, or there is combat
after the action has resolved. At that point the Grapple Combat (TM)
kicks in. There is a decent chance to punish the acting minion...
Kind regards,
pallando
On Jun 8, 7:01 pm, librarian <aucti...@superfuncards.com> wrote:
> Familial Bond
> Reaction
> Cost: 1 blood
> Requires a Laibon
> Only usable on an action directed at another Laibon you control or on a
> bleed against you. +1 intercept. If this block fails, the acting
> minion may choose to make the action fail. If the action succeeds, this
> Laibon may tap (after resolution) to enter combat with the acting minion.
> DRAFT: This Laibon gets +1 intercept.
LSJ (or others): What's the timing on when the acting minion may
choose to make the action fail? Is it only when the block is declared
as not successful, or at any time after that? This has a big impact
on whether it's useful in combination with bounce or not.
- D.J.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Excellent - that confirms that Familial Bond has some other
interesting implications, in combination with things like bleed-bounce
and bleed-reduce. The decision about whether a fight is worth the
bleed becomes a lot more complicated when the bleeder isn't sure the
bleed will hit the intended target, or actually have any bleed amount
left.
I'm still not sure it's great (Chris B. is right that it doesn't play
well with Wakes), but at least it doesn't turn your predator into a
responsible bleeder *for* them.
- D.J.
DJ wrote:
> LSJ (or others): What's the timing on when the acting minion may
> choose to make the action fail? Is it only when the block is declared
> as not successful, or at any time after that? This has a big impact
> on whether it's useful in combination with bounce or not.
That last statement is only sort of true, I think. While the
clarification LSJ just gave certainly leans on the side of it being
good with bounce, it still seems unlikely to me that the card would be
very good in a deck that can redirect bleeds. None of the Laibon clans
have dominate, so for bleed bounce we're primarily looking at the
Osebo. As discussed above, auspex cards pretty much beat FB hands down
for a variety of reasons. For reasons of card efficiency and blood
cost it also just doesn't make much sense to play both cards on a
single bleed. Why not just skip the FB and bounce right away? Also, if
you really want to bounce the bleed, and the bleeder decides to let
the action fail, then you don't get to do what you wanted, which is
generally a bad thing.
I initially quite liked the look of this new card, but the more I
think about it the more corner case it begins to seem. It really is
problematic that the intercept is so conditional on the type of
action, and blood costs have made better cards than this one corner
case to unplayable. Stealth bleed and Temptation are the only actions
I can see this card commonly finding a use against, though it looks
very good against them. I think I'll put 2 into an Akunanse deck and
see how it goes, provided I end up buying any EK cards.
Jesse