rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Hidden Lurker / Obedience

16 messages from 9 participants · 13 November 2003 – 16 November 2003
original thread on Google Groups

Colin McGuigan

Googled for it, didn't find anything appropriate, so... Black Cat Ambushes a tapped Arika. Arika Majesties, untaps. Fatima plays Hidden Lurker. Can Arika play Obedience on Fatima, or is Fatima not considered the acting minion? Obedience: Only usable when this reacting vampire is about to enter combat with an acting younger vampire. Untap the acting vampire, do not tap this reacting vampire, and end the current action (and combat). The acting vampire cannot attempt the same action this turn. As above, but do not untap the acting vampire. Hidden Lurker: Only usable by a ready untapped vampire other than the acting minion. Only usable after a combat between the acting minion you control and a blocking minion. Tap this vampire. This vampire enters combat with the blocking minion. The first round of this new combat, the blocking minion cannot strike. As above, with an optional press. --Colin McGuigan

LSJ

Colin McGuigan wrote: > Googled for it, didn't find anything appropriate, so... > > Black Cat Ambushes a tapped Arika. Arika Majesties, untaps. > > Fatima plays Hidden Lurker. > > Can Arika play Obedience on Fatima, or is Fatima not considered the > acting minion? The latter. > Hidden Lurker: > Only usable by a ready untapped vampire other than the acting minion. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

John Flournoy

Colin McGuigan <maguaSP...@speakeasy.net> wrote in message news:<-c6dnf4TSLB...@speakeasy.net>... > Googled for it, didn't find anything appropriate, so... > > Black Cat Ambushes a tapped Arika. Arika Majesties, untaps. > > Fatima plays Hidden Lurker. > > Can Arika play Obedience on Fatima, or is Fatima not considered the > acting minion? Fatima is not considered the acting minion, merely a minion entering combat via an action modifier. (For instance, Fatima cannot Freak Drive after the combat, since she was neither acting nor blocked.) If you're looking for rule-verification on this, note that 'acting minion' is defined in the rulebook as 'The minion performing the current action'; Fatima is not performing the current action (or any action), and no card text involved declares her as such, so she is not. Note that Mask of 1000 Faces is an action modifier that expressly changes the minion playing the modifier to be the action minion. You do not, for instance, become an 'acting minion' when you play other third-party action modifiers like Cloak the Gathering or Hidden Lurker or Siren's Lure. Arika cannot therefore play Obedience on Fatima. (I believe that technically, Black Cat's action would not be considered to be fully resolved until the Arika-Fatima combat was over, which would mean you could Art of Memory the Hidden Lurker or Fatima-used cards back. Is this so, LSJ?) > --Colin McGuigan -John Flournoy

the_capuchin

> Googled for it, didn't find anything appropriate, so... > Black Cat Ambushes a tapped Arika. Arika Majesties, untaps. > Fatima plays Hidden Lurker. > > Can Arika play Obedience on Fatima, or is Fatima not considered the > acting minion? I'd say Arika can't do it because Hidden Lurker is an Action Modifier and nothing in text indicates this new combat is another action. The two combats being handle as the same action, the acting minion is still Black Cat, so the timing for Obedience is over. [ quoted text not captured ]

Metropolis

> Can Arika play Obedience on Fatima, or is Fatima not considered the > acting minion? > Only usable by a ready untapped vampire other than the acting minion. I think this answers the question, Fatima is NOT the acting minion, therefore she cannot be Majestied. It sucks from the view point of Dominate, but great for Combat. I'll vote we change it, if Majesty will be stopped by Drawing out the Beast : ) [ quoted text not captured ]

Fredrik Appelberg

Colin McGuigan wrote: > Googled for it, didn't find anything appropriate, so... > > Black Cat Ambushes a tapped Arika. Arika Majesties, untaps. > > Fatima plays Hidden Lurker. Fatima can't play Hidden Lurker in the first place since it requires "a blocking minion". I experienced recently when playing a pot/obf rush deck that after a while people just stopped blocking my rushes just to prevent Beast from Lurking them. Pretty annoying, I can tell you :) Cheers, -- Fredrik

Colin McGuigan

Fredrik Appelberg wrote: > Fatima can't play Hidden Lurker in the first place since it requires "a > blocking minion". I experienced recently when playing a pot/obf rush > deck that after a while people just stopped blocking my rushes just to > prevent Beast from Lurking them. > > Pretty annoying, I can tell you :) Well, hot damn. Looks like the cheating phase actually does never stop in Chicago. Need to remember that. =P And thanks to all the rest of you for your replies. --Colin McGuigan

kushiel

Colin McGuigan <maguaSP...@speakeasy.net> wrote in message news:<-c6dnf4TSLB...@speakeasy.net>... > Googled for it, didn't find anything appropriate, so... > > Black Cat Ambushes a tapped Arika. Arika Majesties, untaps. > > Fatima plays Hidden Lurker. > > Can Arika play Obedience on Fatima, or is Fatima not considered the > acting minion? I don't think so. See specific words and phrases highlighted below. > Obedience: > Only usable when this reacting vampire is about to enter combat with an > **acting** younger vampire. > > Untap the acting vampire, do not tap this reacting vampire, and end the > current action (and combat). The acting vampire cannot attempt the same > action this turn. > > As above, but do not untap the acting vampire. > > Hidden Lurker: > Only usable by a ready untapped vampire **other than the acting minion**. > Only usable after a combat between the acting minion you control and a > blocking minion. > > Tap this vampire. This vampire enters combat with the blocking minion. > The first round of this new combat, the blocking minion cannot strike. > > As above, with an optional press. Kushiel

salem

On 13 Nov 2003 09:47:05 -0800, flou...@rcn.com (John Flournoy) scrawled: >(I believe that technically, Black Cat's action would not be >considered to be fully resolved until the Arika-Fatima combat was >over, which would mean you could Art of Memory the Hidden Lurker or >Fatima-used cards back. Is this so, LSJ?) Art of Memory only moves on card played by 'this vampire', who in this case is Black Cat, not Fatima. salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm

Emmit Svenson

Colin McGuigan <maguaSP...@speakeasy.net> wrote in message news:<YwCdncLeXPP...@speakeasy.net>... > Fredrik Appelberg wrote: > > Fatima can't play Hidden Lurker in the first place since it requires "a > > blocking minion". > > Well, hot damn. Looks like the cheating phase actually does never stop > in Chicago. Need to remember that. =P The evening in question, you were Ambushing a tapped vampire. Arika blocked and played Obedience, leaving you free to play Hidden Lurker. All legit.

salem

On 14 Nov 2003 07:57:27 -0800, emmits...@hotmail.com (Emmit Svenson) scrawled: [ quoted text not captured ] "Only usable after a combat between the acting minion you control and a blocking minion." Which combat was Hidden Lurker played after, if Arika Obedianced? :) [ quoted text not captured ]

Metropolis

Vamp A plays Majesty on B So there is no combat, therefore no hidden Lurker is playable by C. "kushiel" <thisi_s...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:6f98ce2a.03111...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ

[ quoted text not captured ] Majesty ends combat. It doesn't erase combat. Hidden Lurker can be played after a combat between the acting minion and a blocking minion is ended by Majesty. [ quoted text not captured ]

salem

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 22:12:20 -0500, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> scrawled: >Metropolis wrote: >> Vamp A plays Majesty on B >> >> So there is no combat, therefore no hidden Lurker is playable by C. [snip] >> > >Majesty ends combat. It doesn't erase combat. > >Hidden Lurker can be played after a combat between the acting minion and >a blocking minion is ended by Majesty. earlier in the thread Metropolis used "Majesty" where he seemed to mean "Obediance". I think this is a continuation of that slip-up. :) [ quoted text not captured ]

salem

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 17:48:53 +1100, salem <salem_ch...@yahoo.com> scrawled: >On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 22:12:20 -0500, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> >scrawled: > >>Metropolis wrote: >>> Vamp A plays Majesty on B >>> >>> So there is no combat, therefore no hidden Lurker is playable by C. >[snip] >>> >> >>Majesty ends combat. It doesn't erase combat. >> >>Hidden Lurker can be played after a combat between the acting minion and >>a blocking minion is ended by Majesty. > >earlier in the thread Metropolis used "Majesty" where he seemed to >mean "Obediance". I think this is a continuation of that slip-up. :) erm, or, if i was paying attention, the post scott replied to is that mythical 'earlier' post. oops. [ quoted text not captured ]

Metropolis

> >Metropolis wrote: > >> Vamp A plays Majesty on B > >> > >> So there is no combat, therefore no hidden Lurker is playable by C. > [snip] > >Majesty ends combat. It doesn't erase combat. > > > >Hidden Lurker can be played after a combat between the acting minion and > >a blocking minion is ended by Majesty. Salem, > earlier in the thread Metropolis used "Majesty" where he seemed to > mean "Obediance". I think this is a continuation of that slip-up. :) You are absolutely correct, I did error, I have no idea what I was thinking, thanks! So what I meant to say, which I am sure we all now know is: >>>>Vamp A plays Obedience on B > >> > >> So there is no combat, therefore no hidden Lurker is playable by C. > [snip] M.