Rules question about Brinksmanship

Hello a question to anyone who may hold the answer! If there is a brinksmanship in play, you have seven cards in your hand and no library left. You play a wake on your predator's turn (hence at 6 cards left, but still having full handsize). At your untap, you must draw up at some stage. Can you decide to apply brinksmanship (with no effect since you have full handsize) and then draw up (or not as the case may be) for the wake? Thanks in advance for your wisdom. Wake with Evening's Freshness Reaction Do not replace until your next untap phase. Only usable by a tapped vampire. This reacting vampire can play reaction cards and attempt to block as though untapped until the current action is concluded. Brinksmanship Political Action If this referendum is successful, put this card in play. Any Methuselah who has exhausted his or her library and begins his or her untap phase with less than a full hand must attempt to withdraw. On that Methuselah's next untap phase, if the withdrawal fails, that Methuselah is ousted. If any Methuselah successfully withdraws, you are ousted.

Im more interested in how this situation happened rather than the outcome of the ruling. Care to clue us in? =D

Ruben Feldman wrote: > Hello a question to anyone who may hold the answer! > > If there is a brinksmanship in play, you have seven cards in your hand > and no library left. You play a wake on your predator's turn (hence at > 6 cards left, but still having full handsize). At your untap, you must > draw up at some stage. Can you decide to apply brinksmanship (with no > effect since you have full handsize) and then draw up (or not as the > case may be) for the wake? No choice: you will begin your untap phase without meeting Brinksmanship's criteria (as you begin the phase with a full hand). [ quoted text not captured ]

On Dec 7, 10:06 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > Ruben Feldman wrote: > > Hello a question to anyone who may hold the answer! > > > If there is a brinksmanship in play, you have seven cards in your hand > > and no library left. You play a wake on your predator's turn (hence at > > 6 cards left, but still having full handsize). At your untap, you must > > draw up at some stage. Can you decide to apply brinksmanship (with no > > effect since you have full handsize) and then draw up (or not as the > > case may be) for the wake? > > No choice: you will begin your untap phase without meeting Brinksmanship's > criteria (as you begin the phase with a full hand). This link http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/ea69d5019b62392c seems to say the opposite (unless "at the beginning of your turn and "when you begin your untap phase" aren't the same thing).

[ quoted text not captured ] Perhaps not; you'll have to take that up with Josh. My bit in that agrees as far as it goes: C happens before D. > On Aug 27, 9:10 am, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: >> C) Checks at "beginning of turn" are made. Is Club Zombie untapped? Is >> Bartholomew untapped? Which of my cards do not untap as normal? >> D) Untap all cards that untap as normal.

[ quoted text not captured ] > > are ousted.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Great, thanks. I guess it's back to the drawing board to find a good way to oust with brinksmanship!

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > floppyzedolfin wrote: > > On Dec 7, 10:06 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > >> Ruben Feldman wrote: > >>> Hello a question to anyone who may hold the answer! > >>> If there is a brinksmanship in play, you have seven cards in your hand > >>> and no library left. You play a wake on your predator's turn (hence at > >>> 6 cards left, but still having full handsize). At your untap, you must > >>> draw up at some stage. Can you decide to apply brinksmanship (with no > >>> effect since you have full handsize) and then draw up (or not as the > >>> case may be) for the wake? > >> No choice: you will begin your untap phase without meeting Brinksmanship's > >> criteria (as you begin the phase with a full hand). > > > > This link http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/ea69d5019b62392c > > seems to say the opposite (unless "at the beginning of your turn and > > "when you begin your untap phase" aren't the same thing). > Perhaps not; you'll have to take that up with Josh. As far as Brinksmanship's text goes, "when you begin your untap phase" is the same as "at the beginning of your turn" for my series of events in the link. Brinksmanship's text is slightly inconsistent with the wording of the withdrawal rules in the rulebook, but there's no big problem here. Floppy and I have had this conversation a dozen times on IRC. Ahem, Pascal, PLEASE stop trying to get Brinksmanship reprinted.

> Ahem, Pascal, PLEASE stop trying to get Brinksmanship reprinted. Imo it should be reprinted and this oust mechanic should be given some love.

On Dec 8, 10:23 am, alex fnurp <a.gyhles...@gmail.com> wrote: > Imo it should be reprinted and this oust mechanic should be given some > love. Seriously? Why? John Eno

[ quoted text not captured ] I think it's a corner case oust mechanic that is entertaining when your predator or prey tries to pull it off; but I don't think it needs more love. And Ira has won with an Enkidu Raptor deck that had a copy of Brinksmanship in it. Not sure if he won with it or not... best - chris

librarian wrote: > Not sure if he won with it or not... > This sentence should say "Not sure if it gained him any VP directly or not." Because he did win a tourney with that deck... best - chris

On Dec 8, 4:25 pm, librarian <aucti...@superfuncards.com> wrote: > I think it's a corner case oust mechanic that is > entertaining when your predator or prey tries to pull it > off... Why do you think it's entertaining? Not trying to get your goat here. I'm genuinely curious. As someone who's tried a couple of different Brinksmanship decks, I always found them both boring and playing-a-different-game-y. John Eno

[ quoted text not captured ] I mean they are entertaining when your pred or prey plays them, because they are working so hard on this oust technique that usually doesn't work. The Enkidu Raptor deck was the most successful. I agree, I didn't enjoy playing my Cock Robin Raptor Brinksmanship (he seems tailor made - title, untaps when he recruits Raptor, etc etc) deck, and it was not very successful either. best - chris

On Dec 8, 4:43 pm, librarian <aucti...@superfuncards.com> wrote: > I mean they are entertaining when your pred or prey plays > them, because they are working so hard on this oust > technique that usually doesn't work. VTES schadenfreude, then? Okay. John Eno

[ quoted text not captured ] I have found Nizzam to be the best subject for raptors. 1) ANI for pack alpha , and of course, Raptors. 2) Psyche, for fast milling / building of raptor stack. 3) Assamite, Black hand. Gives a highly efficient way to refill your by now somewhat depleted vamp rapidly. 4) Agg hand. Allows very efficient binning of vamps once raptos hit the critical stage of 5 or more. Brinkmanship, i am not so sure about though Have played the following deck a few times, it seems to progress very well, unless it gets hammered very fast at the start http://thepathofblood.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1300 Deck Name : Nizzam's Rapture v2.3 Author : Blooded Sand Description : Crypt (11 vampires) Capacity min: 1 max: 9 average: 5.90909 ------------------------------------------------------------ 5x Nizzam al-Latif 9 ANI CEL OBF QUI dem Assamite:5 1x Fish 5 ANI POT pre Guruhi:4 1x Beetleman 4 ANI obf Nosferatu:4 1x Urenna Bunu 4 ani pot pre Guruhi:4 1x Neel Ramanathan 3 ani for Ravnos:4 1x Stick 3 ANI !Nosferatu:4 1x Basir 1 qui Assamite:4 Library (90 cards) ------------------------------------------------------------ Action (6) 1x Army of Rats 1x Blessing of Chaos 2x Clandestine Contract 2x Khabar: Glory Action Modifier/Reaction (6) 6x Provision of the Silsila Combat (30) 1x Canine Horde 1x Fast Hands 3x Aid from bats 10x Pack Alpha 6x Psyche! 3x Pursuit 3x Shadow Feint 1x Sideslip 2x Taste of Death Master (25) 6x Ashur Tablets 1x Depravity 1x Fame 6x Hand Contract 1x Pentex(TM) Subversion 1x Powerbase: Montreal 1x Rack, The 1x Smiling Jack, The Anarch 1x Tension in the Ranks 3x Vessel 2x Wash 1x Yawp Court 1 x Corporeal Reservoir Reaction (8) 7x Black Sunrise Retainer (15) 1x Jackie Therman 14x Raptor

Blooded Sand wrote: > On Dec 8, 10:43 pm, librarian <aucti...@superfuncards.com> wrote: >> Kushiel wrote: >>> On Dec 8, 4:25 pm, librarian <aucti...@superfuncards.com> wrote: >>>> I think it's a corner case oust mechanic that is >>>> entertaining when your predator or prey tries to pull it >>>> off... >>> Why do you think it's entertaining? >>> Not trying to get your goat here. I'm genuinely curious. As someone >>> who's tried a couple of different Brinksmanship decks, I always found >>> them both boring and playing-a-different-game-y. >> I mean they are entertaining when your pred or prey plays >> them, because they are working so hard on this oust >> technique that usually doesn't work. The Enkidu Raptor deck >> was the most successful. I agree, I didn't enjoy playing my >> Cock Robin Raptor Brinksmanship (he seems tailor made - >> title, untaps when he recruits Raptor, etc etc) deck, and it >> was not very successful either. >> >> best - >> >> chris > > I have found Nizzam to be the best subject for raptors. > 1) ANI for pack alpha , and of course, Raptors. Enkidu has this. > 2) Psyche, for fast milling / building of raptor stack. Enkidu Has this. > 3) Assamite, Black hand. Gives a highly efficient way to refill your > by now somewhat depleted vamp rapidly. Do you mean Silsillia? Or something else? > 4) Agg hand. Allows very efficient binning of vamps once raptos hit > the critical stage of 5 or more. Hmmm, better than Enkidu's h3? I see a lot of Guardian Angels and JAckets around here... > > Brinkmanship, i am not so sure about though > Have played the following deck a few times, it seems to progress very > well, unless it gets hammered very fast at the start > > http://thepathofblood.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1300 > > Deck Name : Nizzam's Rapture v2.3 > Author : Blooded Sand > Description : > > > > Crypt (11 vampires) Capacity min: 1 max: 9 average: 5.90909 > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > 5x Nizzam al-Latif 9 ANI CEL OBF QUI dem Assamite:5 > 1x Fish 5 ANI POT pre Guruhi:4 > 1x Beetleman 4 ANI obf Nosferatu:4 > 1x Urenna Bunu 4 ani pot pre Guruhi:4 > 1x Neel Ramanathan 3 ani for Ravnos:4 > 1x Stick 3 ANI !Nosferatu:4 > 1x Basir 1 qui Assamite:4 > > I tried a Nizzam raptor deck and an Enkidu one, and Enkidu's enter combat ability was better than Nizzam's agg hands ability in the games I played. And who is your 12th vamp? Woah, I just went to look at my Nizzam deck, and saw in my notes that it was your idea that inspired me to make it. Yet, after play on JOL for a few games, I switched over to Enkidu - that ability to get into combat with who you want is just gold. Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 10, Max: 44, Avg: 7) ------------------------------------------- 2 Bobby Lemon pro ANI 4 Gangrel 6 Enkidu for ANI CEL OBF POT PRO11 Gangrel Antitribu 1 Mouse ani 2 Nosferatu 2 Stick ANI 3 Nosferatu Antitribu 1 Zip ani 2 Ravnos Library: (90 cards) ------------------- Master (9 cards) 2 Blood Doll 1 Fame 1 Fortitude 1 Giant`s Blood 2 Heidelberg Castle, Germany 1 Rack, The 1 Smiling Jack, The Anarch Action (1 cards) 1 Muricia`s Call Action Modifier (2 cards) 2 Hidden Lurker Political Action (1 cards) 1 Brinksmanship Reaction (14 cards) 4 Cats` Guidance 10 Forced Awakening Combat (48 cards) 4 Decapitate 3 Disarm 3 Fast Hands 6 Immortal Grapple 9 Pack Alpha 6 Psyche! 4 Pursuit 5 Rolling with the Punches 3 Taste of Vitae 5 Unflinching Persistence Retainer (10 cards) 10 Raptor Equipment (1 cards) 1 Laptop Computer Combo (4 cards) 4 Ritual of the Bitter Rose This deck was last saved at 10:18:38 AM on 12/10/2009 best - chris

[ quoted text not captured ] > 14x Raptor- Dölj citerad text - > > - Visa citerad text - I would say that !Goratrix is the best raptor guy around. You magic a Drum of Xipe Totec to him and of you go. You don´t have the rush ability of Enkidu nor the agg dmg of Nizzam, but with his built-in theft (and the maneuver from the drum) its easy to go wild with raptors (and blur/lightning strikes if you need more blood).

On Dec 11, 10:03 am, Abdul alHazred <hallonkul...@yahoo.se> wrote: > I would say that !Goratrix is the best raptor guy around. You magic a > Drum of Xipe Totec to him and of you go. You don´t have the rush > ability of Enkidu nor the agg dmg of Nizzam, but with his built-in > theft (and the maneuver from the drum) its easy to go wild with > raptors (and blur/lightning strikes if you need more blood). There is definite possibilities there....

On Dec 10, 7:20 pm, librarian <aucti...@superfuncards.com> wrote: > > I have found Nizzam to be the best subject for raptors. > > 1) ANI for pack alpha , and of course, Raptors. > > Enkidu has this. > > > 2) Psyche, for fast milling / building of raptor stack. > > Enkidu Has this. > > > 3) Assamite, Black hand. Gives a highly efficient way to refill your > > by now somewhat depleted vamp rapidly. > > Do you mean Silsillia? Or something else? Silsilla. > > > 4) Agg hand. Allows very efficient binning of vamps once raptos hit > > the critical stage of 5 or more. > > Hmmm, better than Enkidu's h3? I see a lot of Guardian > Angels and JAckets around here... I see a lot of pot grapple combat around here, and first strike agg REALLY pisses that off..... > Reaction (14 cards) > 4 Cats` Guidance > 10 Forced Awakening why no otqv? > Retainer (10 cards) > 10 Raptor you find this enough?

[ quoted text not captured ] Also, black hand allow semi-reliable prevention tech. Enkidu is killed by that 1 aggravated really fast, it's his achilles feet, and any vampire may enter combat with him, if they feel fancy.

Raziel wrote: > Enkidu is killed by that 1 aggravated really fast, it's his achilles feet, > and any vampire may enter combat with him, if they feel fancy. Enkidu has [for] to prevent. I mean, sure, it'd be nice if he had [for] but inferior works just fine, not to mention Glancing Blow. Am I missing something? Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.myminicity.com/ Please buy my cards! http://shop.ebay.com/kjmergen/m.html

Abdul alHazred wrote: > I would say that !Goratrix is the best raptor guy around. Did you mean Goratrix? Or Goratrix^ (advanced) ? [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Tha antitribu goratrix. Pretty obvious from the way he wrote it.

Blooded Sand wrote: > "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote: >> Abdul alHazred wrote: >>> I would say that !Goratrix is the best raptor guy around. >> >> Did you mean Goratrix? Or Goratrix^ (advanced) ? > > Tha antitribu goratrix. Pretty obvious from the way he wrote it. I haven't seen anyone use that notation once ever, since it is redundant. So it seemed reasonable to ask the question. Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier [ quoted text not captured ]