On Jun 5, 10:35 pm, The Lasombra <TheLasom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 14x 419 Operation
While I certainly appreciate the idea, the deck doesn't seem to have
enough rush or Eagle's Sight to keep its prey from getting the Edge a
lot. And burning all the Formula 419 Operations...
-Peter
Oko <Oko...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 6 kes�, 08:02, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote:>> On Jun 5, 10:35�pm, The Lasombra <TheLasom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > � 14x 419 Operation
>> While I certainly appreciate the idea, the deck doesn't seem to have
>> enough rush or Eagle's Sight to keep its prey from getting the Edge a
>> lot. And burning all the Formula 419 Operations...>>They can only burn one of the Operations.
Hence the "a lot".
A deck that can successfully bleed twice in a turn can burn two of them
- bleed, get Edge, burn, bleed again, get Edge again, burn a second.
And that's not so outlandish, except in certain superstar decks (without
much weenie assistance). Gathering up quite a few to splurge in one go
might help obviate that, but that might cause card flow ickyness.
Against a prey that can bleed reasonably, there's a fair chance that
dropping a 419 out will make them swing towards bleeding.
It's even possible that my prey (the 419's grand-prey) might let me do a
small bleed or two to burn a couple of 419s, because when the 419s oust
me, they'll be gunning for my prey next and he'd almost certainly like a
couple of them to go.
Very interesting card. I'll be interested to read reports of how
different groups react to it round the world.
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
On 6 kesä, 10:29, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote:
> Oko <Oko...@gmail.com> wrote:[ quoted text not captured ]
Indeed.
Thing is, it does force them to bleed, to a point.
A rush deck might not feel so happy about doing bleeds of 1 to spare
itself. Propably they take the hit and rush anyhow, though upstream.
Voter decks, etc.
All that jams up.
Of course, S&B will just laugh. Unless they need to run into a wall.
But yes, an interesting card.
On Jun 6, 3:14 am, Oko <Oko...@gmail.com> wrote:
> They can only burn one of the Operations.
Sure, but as James points out, if you bleed twice a turn successfully
(not at all an unreasonable assumption) , you bur 2 of the 419's a
turn. So the deck needs to put 3 419's in play a turn to get ahead.
Without a whole lot of Eagle's Sight or killing rush, the 419's are
rarely gonna be more effective in the long run than just bleeding for
1. If you can get a whole mess of them in play, you might get ahead of
the edge (and having 14 in the deck helps that), but still, hard to
make work I'd imagine.
So far, what I have found 419's to work for are with either really
Eagle's Sighty block decks (at which point you are having trouble with
your predator, as you are spending so much effort blokcing your prey,
but not horrible) and with weenie Potence--mess up your prey so he
can't bleed anymore. 'Cause he doesn't have dudes. And if he
poolsacks, the 419 is like an extra bleed a turn that eventually gives
you pool, too.
-Peter
On 6 kesä, 05:35, The Lasombra <TheLasom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Deck Name : Advanced Fee Fraud
4xReliquary: Trinket? It's a great action for a Bamba and the deck
really needs the hand size bonus.
On Jun 6, 8:46 am, suoliruse...@gmail.com wrote:
> On 6 kesä, 16:40, suoliruse...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > On 6 kesä, 05:35, The Lasombra <TheLasom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Deck Name : Advanced Fee Fraud
>
Just for kicks, here's my first run at building one... Note that I
may have been on crack when building it, but it seems like it might
work.
Deck Name : Formula 419
Author : Chris Berger
Description : steal their money, block their bleeds
Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 2 max: 8 average: 5.420000
------------------------------------------------------------
1x Abiku 6 AUS POT cel obt Osebo :4
1x Arriette Sylla 3 POT Osebo :4
1x Homa 6 AUS CEL POT Osebo :4
1x Idrissa 4 CEL aus Osebo :4
1x Ismitta 4 aus cel pot Osebo :4
1x Kamaria 3 aus pot Osebo :4
1x Misrak 2 pot Osebo :4
4x Tatu Sawosa 8 AUS OBF POT ani cel Osebo :4
1x Titi Camara 5 AUS CEL pot Osebo :5
Library [90 cards]
------------------------------------------------------------
Action [12]
12x 419 Operation
Action Modifier [10]
5x Veil the Legions
5x Cloak the Gathering
Combat [14]
4x Sideslip
4x Concealed Weapon
6x Pursuit
Equipment [6]
2x .44 Magnum
3x Sniper Rifle
1x Bowl of Convergence
Master [13]
1x Slave Auction
1x Mbare Market, Harare
2x Obfuscate
1x The Rumor Mill, Tabloid Newspaper
1x Powerbase: Chicago
1x KRCG News Radio
2x Celerity
1x Powerbase: Tshwane
1x Powerbase: Zürich
1x Powerbase: Montreal
1x Powerbase: Washington, D.C.
Reaction [35]
4x Melange
4x On the Qui Vive
8x Forced Awakening
2x Telepathic Misdirection
3x Quicken Sight
2x My Enemy's Enemy
12x Eagle's Sight
I have also had thoughts about building a Nigerian Snake Oil deck
using Form of Corruption, but assuming it works out the way you'd
expect, you take N+1 actions (Form of Corruption + N 419's) to steal a
vampire with N blood, which really isn't much (or any?) better than
just playing Corruption/Revelation of Ecstasy/Reformation unless you
expect them to spend a lot of blood, in which case it's not any better
than Form of Corruption + burn blood effects... On the other hand, if
there's enough room in the deck, and you can Eagle's Sight/Extortion
with the same vampire, the the idea becomes to make the 419's and
Extortions pay off, with Form of Corruption as a deterrent and a
backup plan. The crypt is tough, though, with no Osebo with ser. The
smallest vamp with AUS/SER is an 8 cap and group 2 which is only
compatible with 2 Osebo. So you either play an AUS Osebo with a Book
of Going Forth By Night (or skill cards), or maybe play Seterpenre and
have him Enchant/Groom down to your Osebo... I dunno, might work,
might not.
Two things:
On Jun 6, 9:38 am, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>
> Deck Name : Formula 419
> Author : Chris Berger
> Description : steal their money, block their bleeds
>>
> Reaction [35]> 4x On the Qui Vive
> 8x Forced Awakening
>
Obviously most, if not all, of these should be Eyes of Argus, but I
don't own 12 of them. I own maybe 6, and they're all tied up in other
decks.
> maybe play Seterpenre and
> have him Enchant/Groom down to your Osebo... I dunno, might work,
> might not.
>
Obviously, he can't "Groom" down to your Osebo because they're not the
same clan. That was the crack talking.
On Fri, 5 Jun 2009 22:02:31 -0700 (PDT), Peter D Bakija wrote:
>> � 14x 419 Operation>While I certainly appreciate the idea, the deck doesn't seem to have
>enough rush or Eagle's Sight to keep its prey from getting the Edge a
>lot. And burning all the Formula 419 Operations...
So, you're thinking 20? 25?
There is no reason to be rushing or blocking your prey. You want them
hammering forward full speed. That way they become the bad guy. Your
grand prey cannot allow 14+ bleeds, it simply can't be allowed. They
will have to defend vigorously.
What would you take out to get the additional spam?
Carpe noctem.
The Lasombra
http://www.TheLasombra.com
Your best source of V:TES information.
Now also selling boxes and individual cards.
Peter and The Lasombra discussed:
> >> 14x 419 Operation
> >While I certainly appreciate the idea, the deck doesn't seem to have
> >enough rush or Eagle's Sight to keep its prey from getting the Edge a
> >lot. And burning all the Formula 419 Operations...
>
> So, you're thinking 20? 25?
I'm thinking 0, because the card sucks.
> There is no reason to be rushing or blocking your prey. You want them
> hammering forward full speed. That way they become the bad guy. Your
> grand prey cannot allow 14+ bleeds, it simply can't be allowed. They
> will have to defend vigorously.
There is a reason to be rushing or blocking your prey, because if you
do neither of those things, then you're almost certainly never going
to accomplish anything. It doesn't really matter if your prey becomes
the bad guy. If you aren't doing the work to oust her, then chances
are no one else will. It may be true that your grandprey can't allow
14+ bleeds (though I've certainly seen decks bloat enough to the point
that they can and do), but that assumes that you're getting 14+ 419
Operations into play, which will almost never happen. Also, bleeds
that your grandprey bounces to someone else can still get your prey
the edge.
> What would you take out to get the additional spam?
I would take all 90 cards out, and not put any of them back in.
Jesse
On Jun 6, 11:15 am, The Lasombra <TheLasom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Jun 2009 22:02:31 -0700 (PDT), Peter D Bakija wrote:
> >> 14x 419 Operation
> >While I certainly appreciate the idea, the deck doesn't seem to have
> >enough rush or Eagle's Sight to keep its prey from getting the Edge a
> >lot. And burning all the Formula 419 Operations...
>
> So, you're thinking 20? 25?
>
> There is no reason to be rushing or blocking your prey. You want them
> hammering forward full speed. That way they become the bad guy. Your
> grand prey cannot allow 14+ bleeds, it simply can't be allowed. They
> will have to defend vigorously.
>
I'm not convinced that you can ever really spam enough of them to be
better than bleeding for 1 (perhaps substituting a +1 stealth card
instead of the 419). Once you get a few 419's out, I think you *have*
to concentrate on not letting your prey get the edge.
Otherwise, I think it's just too easy for your prey to keep up. Let's
assume you can get 3 into play per turn, and assume that your prey can
bleed successfully twice per turn...
Turn 1:
3 419's in play with 0 blood.
2 419's burned.
Turn 2:
1 419 in play with 1 blood.
3 419's with 0 blood.
2 419's burned (the one with a blood, and one without)
Net result: 2 419's in play, no pool loss.
Turn 3:
2 419's in play with 1 blood each.
3 419's in play with 0 blood.
2 419's burned (the ones with blood)
Net result: 3 419's in play, no pool loss.
Turn 4:
3 419's in play with 1 blood each.
3 419's in play with 0 blood.
2 419's burned.
Net result 1 419 in play with a blood on it. 3 with 0 blood. 1 pool
loss.
Turn 5:
Do you take back the 1 pool now? Probably, because if you prey bleeds
even once, you lose that pool. So...
3 419's in play with 1 blood each.
4 419's in play with 0 blood.
2 419's with blood burned.
Net result: 1 419 in play with a blood on it. 4 with 0 blood. 2 pool
loss, and 1 pool gained so far for you.
That's assuming that you haven't been blocked, and that you had the 15
419's available at all the right times to put into play. It also
assumes that your prey can bleed twice per turn reliably, which may
not be true, but it seems more likely than having all 15 cards
available and never blocked, also assuming that you can survive that
long when you pack your deck with enough 419's in lieu of bounce or
bloat.
Even if your prey can only bleed once per turn reliably, then it's
about 10 pool loss by the end of turn 5. And that's not turn 5 of the
game, but turn 5 from the time that you're able to start playing 3
419's per turn. Having your prey only bleed once per turn
successfully pretty much relies on your prey playing large vamps, or
your grand prey blocking a lot of bleeds. If you're getting to the
point where you're about to oust, there's less impetus for your grand
prey to be blocking a bleed for 1. Hell, they might not be able to -
not every deck even tries to block stuff, and your prey might have
swarm or stealth in their favor. I, for one, almost never block a
bleed for 1, depending on the deck. Any good bloat or bounce module
can deal with 2 pool worth of bleed per turn. And like another
poster mentioned, they don't have to successfully bleed their prey -
deflected bleeds can get them the edge too. Your grand prey might
even start bouncing to your predator, just to slow him down from
completely steamrolling you while you futz around with 419 Operations
and little else - and your predator has no reason to block bleeds for
1 that destroy your pool gain.
To be able to get out enough 419's to overwhelm someone's ability to
remove them, I think the deck would have to be nothing but Bamba and
419's. At least 6-10 Bamba's and 25-30 419's, if it's a 60 card deck.
And I might be wrong, but I don't see how it's ever worthwhile to let
419 get more than 1 blood on it if you're not able to stop them from
bleeding, because they will always remove the one with the most blood
on it...
On Jun 6, 12:15 pm, The Lasombra <TheLasom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> So, you're thinking 20? 25?
See, I dunno what would make it work. If you can get, like, 6 or 7 in
play in one turn, then you could probably hit them for a bunch in one
shot, and maybe even get a reasonable income the next turn. But if you
are playing one or two a turn, your prey will likely (assuming their
deck is doing anything at all) be able to keep up with them. So I
guess if the plan is to make kids and horde a handfull of 419's, and
then drop them all in one turn, and hope that works, then it might
work. But then, you might also be dead before you can pull it off :-)
-Peter
On Jun 6, 12:38 pm, jcrossnicker...@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm thinking 0, because the card sucks.
Oh, it doesn't completely suck--it just takes some doing. I'm using
them in two decks right now, and really, the card tends to be a card
that you get to play when you are already winning, and then it helps
you win more. One of the decks is an AUS/CEL/pot Eagle's SIght block
deck. Get a couple in play. Keep your prey from bleeding. They lose
some pool. You gain some pool. Eventually you oust them. Much better
when the table has collapsed to 2 or 3 players than early in the game.
The other deck is weenie POT thrown jank. When my prey is without
minions or completely demoralized or just pool sacking, it speeds up
your ability to oust a bit and gains you some pool. Not at all bad.
Again, it mostly just makes winning easier when you are already
winning. But there is something to be said for that.
-Peter
[ quoted text not captured ]
while boozing, I came up with this idea... I picked up my old folderol
deck and modified it to use 419 operation, here are the results...
Vampire (12) [Min: 22 Max: 34 Avg: 6,83]
3 Bartholomew dom obt AUS MYT NEC 8 Sabbat
2 Béatrice L'Angou aus dom nec MYT 5 Sabbat
3 Elena Mendoza Vasquez dom obt AUS THA 6 Sabbat.
2 Kassiym Malikhair dom for OBT MYT 6 Sabbat
2 Marconius pot DOM MYT OBT 9 Sabbat Archbishop of
Strasbourg
Master (8)
2 Infernal Pact Tremere antitribu
2 Metro Underground
4 Vessel
Action (13)
9 419 Operation Osebo
4 Clan Impersonation
Ally (1)
1 Mylan Horseed (Goblin)
Action Modifier (6)
3 Shadow Play Obtenebration
3 Stone Travel Mytherceria, Obtenebration
Action Modifier/Combat (5)
5 Fae Contortion Mytherceria, Obtenebration
Reaction (44)
4 Deflection Dominate
30 Folderol Mytherceria, Auspex
10 Obedience Dominate
the idea is simple, get one of your fairies to clan impersonate to
osebo and drop one 419 operation in turn to table and obviously you
keep your preys bleeds at zero with folderols...
Peter wrote:
> Oh, it doesn't completely suck--it just takes some doing. I'm using
> them in two decks right now, and really, the card tends to be a card
> that you get to play when you are already winning, and then it helps
> you win more.
I can see how that would be the case, but my general experience with
the Osebo is that the precondition almost never happens.
>One of the decks is an AUS/CEL/pot Eagle's SIght block
> deck. Get a couple in play. Keep your prey from bleeding. They lose
> some pool. You gain some pool. Eventually you oust them. Much better
> when the table has collapsed to 2 or 3 players than early in the game.
There are a couple problems there, I think. One is that blocking your
prey's bleeds tends to be extremely hard to do in practice. I've found
that just about every time I start doing that, even with a deck that's
designed for it, I end up unable to keep up defense against my
predator, and that usually means I lose. The other problem is that if
your ousting strategy doesn't start to work until the game is down to
2 or 3 players, you're fairly unlikely to win the game, either because
someone else is taking too many VPs, because you get ousted first, or
because the game times out.
> The other deck is weenie POT thrown jank. When my prey is without
> minions or completely demoralized or just pool sacking, it speeds up
> your ability to oust a bit and gains you some pool. Not at all bad.
You don't find that you choke on useless actions when you're trying to
rush a lot? I'd imagine that would be a kiss of death.
> Again, it mostly just makes winning easier when you are already
> winning. But there is something to be said for that.
I'm not sure there really is that much to be said for that, given how
very hard it is to put yourself in a strong position with the Osebo.
Not only are you playing a clan that is quite notoriously bad, but you
have action cards in your deck that do pretty much absolutely nothing
for most of the game. So you're skating up two hills at once, one of
which is doing well with an extremely sketchy clan, and the other is
getting stuck with cards that are doing nothing but gumming up your
hand. You could add a bunch of card cycling to your deck, but given
the way all three of the Osebo's disciplines blow through cards, along
with the fact that you're playing for an end game, you're looking at a
very high probability of running out of library well before you get
any VPs.
I guess I'd be glad to be wrong on this one, since the existence of
horrible cards irks me, but right now I'm really just not seeing 419
Operation (or the Osebo in general, with the possible but unlikely
exception of Cesewayo) as being every remotely viable in a competitive
environment.
Jesse
On Jun 6, 6:57 pm, jcrossnicker...@gmail.com wrote:
> I can see how that would be the case, but my general experience with
> the Osebo is that the precondition almost never happens.
Well, yeah, there is that. But once and a while, it works--I've won a
game or two with that deck. I mean, like, I wouldn't expect to take
any tournaments, but it is ok. And kinda funny.
> You don't find that you choke on useless actions when you're trying to
> rush a lot? I'd imagine that would be a kiss of death.
Oh, goodness no. There is only, like, 1 or 2 in the deck. When I have
Osebo in play, and I'm mangling my prey, and it shows up? Ariette
Sylla can't bleed anyway.
> I guess I'd be glad to be wrong on this one, since the existence of
> horrible cards irks me, but right now I'm really just not seeing 419
> Operation (or the Osebo in general, with the possible but unlikely
> exception of Cesewayo) as being every remotely viable in a competitive
> environment.
Oh, I dunno--again, I don't, think, like 419 based decks are going to
be tearing up the pea patch or anything. But they are funny, possibly
viable, and certainly helpful in the right circumstances.
-Peter
Peter D Bakija <pd...@lightlink.com> wrote:
>On Jun 6, 6:57�pm, jcrossnicker...@gmail.com wrote:>> I can see how that would be the case, but my general experience with
>> the Osebo is that the precondition almost never happens.>
>Well, yeah, there is that. But once and a while, it works--I've won a
>game or two with that deck. I mean, like, I wouldn't expect to take
>any tournaments, but it is ok. And kinda funny.
You're missing the killer play.
Take some 419s and some Osebo. Add a Prince or Justicar, possibly
several. Put 419s in play. Call First Tradition. If you pay for your
turn, you've lost pool. If you don't pay for your turn, my 419s will
kick in and I'll be able to pay for my next turn more easily.
Toreador mix in reasonably easily, with Aus/Cel. Madame Guil gives you
TheLasombra's suggested Serpentis + Form of Corruption (for when they
get the Edge) and Fortitude to untap. Vasily does similar in group 5.
Epikasta looks like nice middle ground.
100%. Solid. Gold. GOLD. Will lead to Continental Championship
titles - or your money back!
(Warning: may not be 100% solid gold. No money has changed hands.)
[ quoted text not captured ]
On 7 kesä, 01:57, jcrossnicker...@gmail.com wrote:
> You could add a bunch of card cycling to your deck, but given
> the way all three of the Osebo's disciplines blow through cards, along
> with the fact that you're playing for an end game, you're looking at a
> very high probability of running out of library well before you get
> any VPs.
Which isn't such a bad thing now that we have Ashur Tablets. Make it a
60-card low/midcap rush deck with Aura Readings and Infernal Pursuit
for library milling. 419 Operations get discarded until your prey
doesn't have any minions to bleed with. Then you pop the Tablets, get
3-5 Operations in play and start preparing your grand prey while your
first prey is roasting. Some !Brujah and WMO should fit in.
On Fri, 05 June 2009 22:35:57 -0400, The Lasombra wrote:
>Deck Name : Advanced Fee Fraud
>Author : The Lasombra
>Description :
>http://www.ultrascan.nl/html/centralized_reporting_419_adva.html
>http://www.nextwebsecurity.com/419ScamTypes.asp>Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 2 max: 6 average: 4.5
>------------------------------------------------------------
>2x Abiku 6 AUS POT cel obt Osebo:4
>2x Homa 6 AUS CEL POT Osebo:4
>2x Titi Camara 5 AUS CEL pot Osebo:5
>2x Arriette Sylla 3 POT Osebo:4
>1x Uzoma 5 POT aus cel vic Osebo:4
>1x Ismitta 4 aus cel pot Osebo:4
>1x Kamaria 3 aus pot Osebo:4
>1x Misrak 2 pot Osebo:4
Too much duplication at the top end of the crypt. Only got to
successfully play Grooming the Protege two-three times (once in each
game, possibly twice in the second game).
>Library [90 cards]
>------------------------------------------------------------
>Action [23]
> 14x 419 Operation
> 1x Ambush
> 5x Bamba
> 1x Bum's Rush
> 1x Harass
> 1x Nose of the Hound
The Bamba's were replaced with other cards before the games. I never
saw enough 419s, though only 1 was burned via its text in the two
games. Fame and the Rush always did more damage. I had 5 in play
successfully, draining 2 from prey / cashing in 3 each turn.
>Action Modifier [2]
> 2x Massassi's Honor
Saved the only 419 action that was blocked, and the second attempt got
it into play successfully.
>Action Modifier/Reaction [5]
> 4x Ancestor's Insight
> 1x Osebo Kholo
Reduced the Ancestor's Insight to 3, never successfully played it,
never saw the Kholo.
>Combat [28]
> 7x Immortal Grapple
> 7x Pursuit
> 7x Torn Signpost
> 7x Undead Strength
Instead of US, I used a mix of Taste, Disarm, and Slam. Was
outclassed in most of my combats. (Ysador the Foul - can't maneuver
to close playing Carrion Crows/Aid from Bats, Inner Circle members
playing Assault Rifles/Pursuits, Gangrel Antitribu playing Quick
Jab/Claws of the Dead.)
>Equipment [1]
> 1x Blood Shield
Never made it into play. Would have been very useful in the first
game only.
>Master [15]
> 1x Base Hunting Ground
> 2x Effective Management
> 1x Giant's Blood
> 6x Grooming the Protege
> 1x Mbare Market, Harare
> 4x Potence
With the dropping of the Bamba's the Potence went as well. Was
replaced with Fame and Powerbase: Luanda.
>Reaction [16]
> 2x Eagle's Sight
> 2x Enhanced Senses
> 6x Eyes of Argus
> 2x Quicken Sight
> 4x Telepathic Misdirection
I don't play defensively enough that this was enough untap. I needed
about three times as much.
Agent of Power / Form of Corruption seems definitely required. It
also seems that better permanent defense would be required, i.e.
Magaji and No Secrets would have made a huge difference.
[ quoted text not captured ]
On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 09:38:50 -0700 (PDT), Jesse wrote:
>Peter and The Lasombra discussed:>> >> � 14x 419 Operation
>> >While I certainly appreciate the idea, the deck doesn't seem to have
>> >enough rush or Eagle's Sight to keep its prey from getting the Edge a
>> >lot. And burning all the Formula 419 Operations...>> So, you're thinking 20? �25?>I'm thinking 0, because the card sucks.
It invalidates 100% of your prey's bleed defense. It is slow enough
pool damage (1 every other turn) that they don't need to rush into
bleeding their prey if they originally planned on doing something
else. It is certainly worth more experimentation.
[ quoted text not captured ]
On Jun 6, 9:40 pm, The Lasombra <TheLasom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Too much duplication at the top end of the crypt. Only got to
> successfully play Grooming the Protege two-three times (once in each
> game, possibly twice in the second game).
Huh. As they are the good vampires, I'd figure having multiples would
be good. Unless you get hosed on the Grooming. But that is easily
remedied by turning the Groomings into, like, Minion Taps or Villeins--
it isn't like the crypt is so huge that you really need the
acceleration
> The Bamba's were replaced with other cards before the games.
Really? I figured the Bamba were what was going to make the deck work--
get a bunch of little dudes, and then throw out a ton of 419 in one
turn.
> I never
> saw enough 419s, though only 1 was burned via its text in the two
> games. Fame and the Rush always did more damage. I had 5 in play
> successfully, draining 2 from prey / cashing in 3 each turn.
That isn't bad. What kind of decks were your prey?
> With the dropping of the Bamba's the Potence went as well. Was
> replaced with Fame and Powerbase: Luanda.
PB: Luanda is gold.
> I don't play defensively enough that this was enough untap. I needed
> about three times as much.
I'd think more bounce would be good, too--if you can bounce your
predator, and occasionally block your prey when he goes to bleed, that
seems like a goood mechanism.
>
> Agent of Power / Form of Corruption seems definitely required.
Hmm. That is pretty clever. But hard to pull off (how many Agent of
Power/Form of Corruptions?)
Intrigued.
-Peter
[ quoted text not captured ]
Well if going bamba route, ser masters might be better....
Else just ser masters. inf is enough for FoC if prey is buring and
gaining edge multiple times.....
On Jun 7, 10:02 am, Blooded Sand <sandm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well if going bamba route, ser masters might be better....
> Else just ser masters. inf is enough for FoC if prey is buring and
> gaining edge multiple times.....
Ooh! That is good--use the new 7 cap Magoogly (Mamadou?). Have him
make Bamba (using crazy CEL stealth!). They get serpentors. Make Form
of Corruptions. And 419 Operations. Bounce bleeds. Block votes.
Occasionally shoot folks with sniper rifles or hit them with sewer
lids or something. I *love* this plan!
Must. Make. Deck. Work!
-Peter
On Jun 6, 8:40 pm, The Lasombra <TheLasom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 05 June 2009 22:35:57 -0400, The Lasombra wrote:
> >Deck Name : Advanced Fee Fraud
> >Author : The Lasombra
>> >Action Modifier [2]
> > 2x Massassi's Honor
>
> Saved the only 419 action that was blocked, and the second attempt got
> it into play successfully.
>
Question: Isn't Massassi's Honor only useful if you have other action
modifiers in the deck? Because otherwise, you're just using an action
modifier to retry an action that you took, when it could have just
been another copy of the action, and it's not cyclable if you don't
get blocked, and can't be used if all your dudes are tapped... I
suppose it could be used on a rush as well as on a 419, but it doesn't
save any of the cards you use in combat, because you move the cards to
it before combat. Am I missing something? It sorta seems like
putting a Fortschritt Library in a deck with only 1 event in it...
On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 08:21:35 -0700 (PDT), Chris Berger wrote:
>> >Action Modifier [2]
>> > �2x Massassi's Honor>Question: Isn't Massassi's Honor only useful if you have other action>modifiers in the deck? Because otherwise, you're just using an action
>modifier to retry an action that you took, when it could have just
>been another copy of the action, and it's not cyclable if you don't
>get blocked, and can't be used if all your dudes are tapped... I
>suppose it could be used on a rush as well as on a 419, but it doesn't
>save any of the cards you use in combat, because you move the cards to
>it before combat. Am I missing something? It sorta seems like
>putting a Fortschritt Library in a deck with only 1 event in it...
It lets you take the action again RIGHT NOW.
Which was good enough. I overloaded my prey's reaction potential and
got the card in play when I wanted it in play.
It works perfectly on a blocked rush as well.
[ quoted text not captured ]
On Jun 7, 10:32 am, The Lasombra <TheLasom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 08:21:35 -0700 (PDT), Chris Berger wrote:
> >> >Action Modifier [2]
> >> > 2x Massassi's Honor
> >Question: Isn't Massassi's Honor only useful if you have other action
> >modifiers in the deck? Because otherwise, you're just using an action
> >modifier to retry an action that you took, when it could have just
> >been another copy of the action, and it's not cyclable if you don't
> >get blocked, and can't be used if all your dudes are tapped... I
> >suppose it could be used on a rush as well as on a 419, but it doesn't
> >save any of the cards you use in combat, because you move the cards to
> >it before combat. Am I missing something? It sorta seems like
> >putting a Fortschritt Library in a deck with only 1 event in it...
>
> It lets you take the action again RIGHT NOW.
But so does another copy of 419, without all the requirements...
On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 09:01:50 -0700 (PDT), Chris Berger wrote:
>> >> >Action Modifier [2]
>> >> > �2x Massassi's Honor>But so does another copy of 419, without all the requirements...
As 14 wasn't enough, perhaps 16 would have done the trick. I drew
Massassi's Honor once, and played it the turn I drew it. I didn't
find it to have any drawback.
[ quoted text not captured ]
On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 06:27:03 -0700 (PDT), Peter D Bakija wrote:
>> �I never>> saw enough 419s, though only 1 was burned via its text in the two
>> games. �Fame and the Rush always did more damage. �I had 5 in play
>> successfully, draining 2 from prey / cashing in 3 each turn.>That isn't bad. What kind of decks were your prey?
Gangrel dominate agg poke with Quick Jab.
Ysador the Foul vote with Carrion Crows / Aid from Bats.
[ quoted text not captured ]
On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 06:27:03 -0700 (PDT), Peter D Bakija wrote:
>> Agent of Power / Form of Corruption seems definitely required.>Hmm. That is pretty clever. But hard to pull off (how many Agent of
>Power/Form of Corruptions?)
Right now I am thinking 4 of each. The Agent can be used for Celerity
or Potence if I don't have a Form in hand, and can get the best actor
with the right skill on the turn I do have Form of Corruption.
[ quoted text not captured ]
>>>>> 14x 419 Operation
First a question : despite the link I can't find a definition, so please
tell me : what is a 419 operation IRL ?
>> A deck that can successfully bleed twice in a turn can burn two of
>> them - bleed, get Edge, burn, bleed again, get Edge again, burn a
>> second.
Agreed. So...
Osebo + FoS = 419 + Form of Corruption ??
looooool.
BTW, the combo is so outlandish that even FELDB refused to tell me if any
Osebo had Serpentis, the request results in a floating point error...
-----------
Orpheus
On Jun 7, 10:40 am, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote:
> Must. Make. Deck. Work!
Right. Put together an initial sketch of the deck. Including a couple
Vasilly (6 cap CEL, aus, ser Prince) for ser out of the box. It is
designed to have reliable block/bounce tech, some guns, some Bamba,
some 419s, some celerity to make blocking pay off. Yeah, it looks
horrible. Too many things. Not enough of any of them to be reliable.
And Form of Corruption is at 0 stealth :-(
-Peter
Orpheus <orpheus....@free.fr> wrote:
>First a question : despite the link I can't find a definition, so please
>tell me : what is a 419 operation IRL ?
Dear Friend,
My name is Mr NELSON JONES. I was given your name by a mutual
acquaintance as someone who would be trustworthy for a deal.
My client was the First Secretary of the Nigerian branch of White Wolf,
and has a large number of V:TES cards need to be exported from Nigeria.
Unfortunately, as you will have seen on the TV news, he recently died in
a freak tornado.
I have 27,000,000 V:TES cards (twenty-seven million V:TES) that I need
to export, and I would like to place them in your flat. When you are
able to pass them on to my colleague, you will be allowed to keep 10% of
the cards as payment.
If you agree to this, please send me your address, bank account details
and a photocopy of your passport.
Hope to bleed you soon,
--
Mr NELSON JONES
On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:48:18 -0700 (PDT), Peter D Bakija wrote:
>And Form of Corruption is at 0 stealth :-(
Which is why the Bamba's don't get Serpentis.....
[ quoted text not captured ]
Yeah, sad. It seemed like such a "good" idea. Until I dug out the FoC
and saw the 0 stealth. Vasilly can play it at stealth, however, but
resisting the grasp of the entire earth!
Yeah, back to the drawing board.
-Peter
[ quoted text not captured ]
lol
Always wondered if anyone was actually stupid enough to answer to this (not
the current post, of course, lol).
And why is it called 419 operation ?
Orpheus <orpheus....@free.fr> wrote:
>Always wondered if anyone was actually stupid enough to answer to this (not
>the current post, of course, lol).
Yes, people have been sucked in by 419s.
>And why is it called 419 operation ?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance-fee_fraud
An advance-fee fraud is a confidence trick in which the target is
persuaded to advance sums of money in the hope of realizing a
significantly larger gain.[1] Among the variations on this type of
scam, are the Nigerian Letter (also called the 419 fraud, Nigerian
scam, Nigerian bank scam, or Nigerian money offer[2])
...
The number "419" refers to the article of the Nigerian Criminal Code
(part of Chapter 38: "Obtaining Property by false pretences;
Cheating") dealing with fraud.[6] The American Dialect Society has
traced the term "419 fraud" back to 1992.[7]
[ quoted text not captured ]
On Jun 7, 2:57 pm, "Orpheus" <orpheus.TAKEOU...@free.fr> wrote:
> Always wondered if anyone was actually stupid enough to answer to this (not
> the current post, of course, lol).
There is a fantastic New Yorker article (I'll see if I can find it
online) about an American who answered out of sick curiosity and
slight greed, got sucked in, thinking he had the upper hand, and got
arrested/convicted for cashing large bogus checks.
There is also a good This American Life story (radio show in US) where
some guys respond and turn the tables, stringing the guys along and
getting them kind of screwed, actually. It kind of turns cruel in the
long run.
-Peter
Here's a rough idea of what I would do with FoC and 419 Op.
Crypt [12 vampires, average capacity: 6.41667]
4x Cesewayo AUS CEL DOM POT THA ani 10 Osebo:4 magaji
1x Cesewayo (Adv) AUS CEL DOM POT THA ani 10 Osebo:4 magaji
1x Homa AUS CEL POT 6 Osebo:4
1x Titi Camara AUS CEL pot 5 Osebo:5
1x Idrissa CEL aus 4 Osebo:4
1x Ismitta aus cel pot 4 Osebo:4
1x Arriette Sylla POT 3 Osebo:4
1x Kamaria aus pot 3 Osebo:4
1x Misrak pot 2 Osebo:4
Library [90 cards]
Master [21]
3x Aye
4x Grooming the Protege
2x Guardian Angel
3x Serpentis
4x Storage Annex
5x Vessel
Action [21]
10x 419 Operation
3x Bamba
3x Form of Corruption
5x Magic of the Smith
Action Modifier [6]
2x Dusk Work
2x Enkil Cog
2x Truth of a Thousand Lies
Ally [1]
1x Mylan Horseed (Goblin)
Equipment [6]
1x Blood Shield
1x Book of Going Forth by Night, The
1x Heart of Nizchetus
1x Kduva's Mask
2x Sniper Rifle
Reaction [19]
5x Eagle's Sight
2x Eyes of Argus
3x Familial Bond
2x On the Qui Vive
2x Quicken Sight
5x Telepathic Misdirection
Combat [16]
4x Blur
2x Side Strike
6x Sideslip
4x Taste of Vitae
[ quoted text not captured ]
And here's mine :)
Deck Name : Nigerian Corruption
Author : Papasmurf
Description : Use Magic of the Smith to equip Cesewayo with
what the table demand. Preferably Heart first then Book of
Going Forth. Place Form of Corruption with up to 4 stealth
and then Scam your prey with 419 operation. Eagle Eye your
prey's bleed's when he dare going forward. Use Khalu, Homa,
Idrissa for some edge bleed's or help Cesewayo out with
some actions.
Alternatively add: Smiling Jack for table oust or Pentex to
protect your star vampire.
Crypt (12 vampires) Capacity min: 4 max: 10 average: 8.33333
------------------------------------------------------------
4x Cesewayo Adv 10 AUS CEL DOM POT THA ani magaji Osebo:4
3x Cesewayo 10 AUS CEL DOM POT THA ani magaji Osebo:4
2x Khalu 7 AUS CEL POT ani pro Osebo:3
2x Homa 6 AUS CEL POT Osebo:4
1x Idrissa 4 CEL aus Osebo:4
Library (90 cards)
------------------------------------------------------------
Action (17)
5x 419 Operation
3x Form of Corruption
5x Magic of the Smith
2x Rutor's Hand
2x Well-Marked
Action Modifier (9)
3x Dusk Work
6x High Aye
Action Modifier/Combat (5)
5x Resist Earth's Grasp
Combat (16)
6x Blur
4x Concealed Weapon
2x Psyche!
4x Theft of Vitae
Equipment (11)
4x .44 Magnum
1x Blood Shield
1x Book of Going Forth by Night, The
1x Bowl of Convergence
1x Heart of Nizchetus
1x Phased Motion Detector
1x Signet of King Saul, The
1x Sport Bike
Master (19)
10x Aye
1x Guinea-Bissau Carnival
1x Mbare Market, Harare
1x Monastery of Shadows
1x Perfectionist
1x Powerbase: Tshwane
1x Rack, The
3x Vessel
Reaction (13)
5x Eagle's Sight
5x Eyes of Argus
3x Quicken Sight
Crafted with : Anarch Revolt Deck Builder. (Tue Jun 09 10:20:58 2009)
[ quoted text not captured ]
Nkishi
Type: Equipment
Requires: laibon
Unique equipment. Requires a Laibon.
You may use a master phase action to search your library or ash heap
for an Aye or an Orun and put that card on this Laibon.
Why none? do people seriously not rate this card? Especially for a
deck like this where you have 9 masters, 3 of which are trifles?
[ quoted text not captured ]> deck like this where you have 9 masters, 3 of which are trifles?- Dölj citerad text -
>
> - Visa citerad text -
It's not a bad card. I did try it in a few decks but then I
realized...
1) It takes up 1/90 of the deck.
2) Before it is in play it occupies 1/7 of my hand.
3) It takes a valuable action to put into play.
4) three Aye is the magic number. Nkishi probably won't help me reach
it and anything above 3 is just a boon not a necessity.
5) With so many Aye's in the deck i'm bound to naturally draw them
anyway.
6) Heart of Nizchetus further emphasize 5).
[ quoted text not captured ]
10 Ayes is not enough to draw 3 of them early. The actual math on the
probability is hard, but estimate about 1 Aye every 9 cards. You
would like to have either 2 Ayes in your opening 7-10 cards, or a
Static Virtue in that same window (with the obligatory 3 Oruns in the
deck). Magicking up a Nkishi could certainly help...
Chris Berger wrote:
> 10 Ayes is not enough to draw 3 of them early. The actual math on the
> probability is hard, but estimate about 1 Aye every 9 cards. You
> would like to have either 2 Ayes in your opening 7-10 cards, or a
> Static Virtue in that same window (with the obligatory 3 Oruns in the
> deck). Magicking up a Nkishi could certainly help...
With 10 in 90, odds of drawing 2 (or more) in opening 10 cards:
30.68%
In Excel:
=1 - HYPGEOMDIST(0,10,10,90) - HYPGEOMDIST(1,10,10,90)
That is: 100% minus the odds of drawing only 0 or 1.
Note the first 10 is the number of cards drawn. The second 10 is the number of
Ayes in the deck.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Of course, but the Heart seems to be a much more viable target for
MotS than Nkishi. The heart not only free up your hand from cards you
don't need right now it also speed up the rate you gain Aye's at and
by the time you draw your second MotS chances should be in favor of
having reached 3 Aye already.
Oh, I forgot a few more reason to the previous list:
7) It still require a master phase action (which means the only use
you really have of it is when you have no masters at all in your
hand).
8) You can only place Aye (or Orun) on the vampire using the Nkishi
item.
As I said earlier, I don't think it's a bad card, it has some cool
uses like being able to maximize master phase actions if you don't
have master cards on your hand (like investments) and it also vacuum-
clean your library from master cards so you have a better chance at
drawing cards you like when you are in a pinch - I just didn't think
it was enough to justify a slot in the deck.
LSJ pointed out that you hardly get 3 Aye in your starting hand but
even if you add a Nkishi to the deck doesn't mean you get that item in
your starting hand either. To reach 3 Aye, it could maybe be faster to
just add one more Aye card instead of a Nkishi since the effect of
Nkishi is delayed by one round - I'll let you calculate the odds of
that. :)
[ quoted text not captured ]
So, you are playing MotS. If you are playing more than one copy,
having something useful to fetch with numbers 2-5 is very good. You
have 19 masters. 10 ae ayes, three are trifles. You can play a trifle
and siphon an Aye from your library. This means that you can discard
any ayes you draw, as you can play them from the ash heap.
You can also play those Ayes as trifles, then use the second master to
siphon one from your deck.
For Cesewayo to take that action is negligible, as the chances of him
being able to untap, guranateed, on any D action coming your way from
then on over rides the cost of taking an action.