Shock Troops II

Well, the first attempt to do something with Shock Troops was a bust. Went with the "obvious" choice of Thaumaturgy, Cassandra, and Cryptic Missions. Deck was extreme - tried to drop around 6 troops each time the card was played. Storage Annexes, hand size increasing, multiple masters were all part of the combo. Deck falls apart without early Annexes to get the combo parts. Had 9 of them but didn't draw one until late midgame. Even then Sudden Reversal, which I had considered, singlehandedly stopped the combo, though it does flush out your hand nicely unless we were playing it wrong. Problem was that so much of the deck is devoted to putting out minions that don't do much that I had no effect on the game except as a speed bump. And, I keep forgetting I have to actually pay pool to pop them out. Even before giving the deck a real test, a couple of us discussed alternatives. General conclusion is that the best way to go is Necromancy! Jar the Soul gives the vamps something useful to do. Spiritual Intervention gives them some combat defense, which may or may not be useful. Carlotta allows for the recycling of Shock Troops itself, important when you don't want to devote as much space to putting out a large number at once. Really, besides Tribute to the Master or vote bloat, there doesn't seem to be a reason to have that many in play. In theory, as we haven't built the deck yet (not sure I have enough Necromancy cards to do it anyway, another reason I went with Thaumaturgy), you pop out about 3, do something constructive, Carlotta or draw, pop out 3, etc. All of this is predicated on the idea that the deck will make Shock Troops tournament worthy. Obviously, could just try to use it to put out an extra couple of minions in a game, but that's rather boring and seems to similar to just Embracing.

cur...@aol.com (Ian Lee) wrote: > Well, the first attempt to do something with Shock Troops was a bust. > Even then Sudden Reversal, which I had considered, singlehandedly > stopped the combo, though it does flush out your hand nicely > unless we were playing it wrong. Sound like it. Sudden Reversal cancels the card, so the discipline cards in your hand don't get played (and are not burned) - they remain in your hand. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

On 26 Nov 2000, Ian Lee wrote: > Even before giving the deck a real test, a couple of us discussed alternatives. > General conclusion is that the best way to go is Necromancy! Unfortunately: "Requires a ready Archbishop or Cardinal. " Difficult to do with a Necromancy heavy deck (though not impossible, of course). It's one of my gripes with the card. Clan Novel: Lasombra has the Camarilla doing exactly the same thing, so why they can't use the card I don't know. -- James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D "Steve: Yeah, well that's one of the advantages of being a sad, lonely fairy, I guess. You get to learn how to be a spy." - Stephen Fry, Making History

I haven't seen any other posts for Shock Troops in the last few days due to the newsgroup not showing up right in my area, however, here are my best thoughts on Shock Troops: Only feasible uses: 1) Rushing Horde: Tool up with many weenies (using Storage Annex as per previous post). Get the vampire that made them to play a War Party, and play Havesn Uncovered. Use the weenies to attack. Best option here is Animalism - attack, trap, carrion crows, Aid from Bats. Repeat to fade. This is good because it will put people off intercepting your hunts, your actions, etc. Add Raven Spies for the cocky! I assume the best clan for this is the !Nossies. They have Animalism and stealth to get the War Parties through. With Shock Troops you need stealth, so you need Hidden Pathways and Psychic Veils. This makes hunting at least feasible. Best option is to boost them up asap with MORE disciplines. By my count, you need about 20 discipline cards alone. Plus 4 Shock Troops, 3 Storage Annex, and 3 Tributes (to pay for them all) makes 30 Masters to start with!!! Then you need a Parthenon, Barrens, a Dreams of the Sphinx, and 3 Havens Uncovered and a Deal with the devil. This makes an optional 37 Masters. You need about 40 combat cards (10 Traps, 10 Carrion Crows, 20 Aid from Bats) That leaves you with about 13 card slots to add about 6 War Parties, 3 Forgotton Labyrinths and 4 Hidden Pathways. 2) Defence: Auspex - Telepathic Counters and Suprise Influences / Political Backlashes. Repeat to fade. This sucks because you will never do your prey any harm. I have another plan, but it is top secret. I will call it the Sabbat People Front deck. DH [ quoted text not captured ]

On Mon, 27 Nov 2000, James Coupe wrote: > It's one of my gripes with the card. Clan Novel: Lasombra has the > Camarilla doing exactly the same thing, so why they can't use the card I > don't know. This issue was mentioned at the end of Clan Novel: Ventrue, where lots of neonates were embraced to defend Buffalo (haven't read Lasombra yet). The tactic was protested on the grounds of violation of the Masquerade, and that such tactics would blur the distinction between the Camarilla and Sabbat. Such tactics are clearly far more typical of the Sabbat, who have far greater practice in it, and who do not have to deal with idealogical resistance to gain support for such schemes. It seems to me that this difference between the Camarilla and Sabbat is admirably represented by giving the Sabbat an EXTRA resource card for the production of weenie cannon-fodder. The Camarilla have not been prevented, thematically, from using weenie neonates as shock troops. They are merely prevented from using a Sabbat-only card called "Shock Troops". They can still use The Embrace and Third Tradition. The EXTRA resource available to the Sabbat faithfully represents its greater affinity to this tactic. -- John Whelan

>> Even before giving the deck a real test, a couple of us discussed >alternatives. >> General conclusion is that the best way to go is Necromancy! I still like the Thaumaturgy angle. Have you tried it with massive Weather Controls? Use a crypt full of Tremere and !Tremere weenies. Include 5-10 or so Thaumaturgy cards and LOTS of Weather Control. I guess it wouldn't exactly be a Shock Troops deck, but it would sure be fun to take down Arika with a Shock Troop token. Halcyan 2

(Sorry, no quoted text) Speaking of using Cassandra to up your hand size for this deck, lately I've been thinking of the max hand size you can have: 7 Standard +1 (8) Elder Library +1 (9) Cassandra +2 (11) Dreams of the Sphinx +2 (13) Aura Reading +2 (15) Sascha Vykos = 15 cards in your hand! Sounds like fun! Of course I don't think you can get the Aura and Sascha to work during your Master phase, so for Shock Troops, you can only manage 11 cards in your hand. So let X = 10 and... Halcyan 2

I was thinking about Fortitude Shock Troops. You use them for Blood Dolls. They have to hunt at zero stealth but if someone blocks them then you just trap and undead persistance with some lucky blows to keep the pressess going. If they survive an entire turn in torpor,then you just rapid heal them back out. Rinse, Wash, Repeat. Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown Jr. XZealot Archon of the Swamp [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <8vuqc3$h5q$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, X_Ze...@email.msn.com wrote: > I was thinking about Fortitude Shock Troops. You use them for Blood > Dolls. They have to hunt at zero stealth but if someone blocks them > then you just trap and undead persistance with some lucky blows to keep > the pressess going. If they survive an entire turn in torpor,then you > just rapid heal them back out. Rinse, Wash, Repeat. i was thinking along pot lines. increased strength alot. IG, undead strength. if you have enough increased strength your little 1 cap pot card can take down any sized blocker (barring flesh o marble and skin o steel, etc. :P). and then they'll stop blocking. and then you go with that whole war party/haven unconvered idea. O:) -- _*__salem _*__http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/5848/ ***__salem_...@my-dejanews.com _*__and the rains came hammering down [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <20001127162434...@ng-ch1.aol.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] Try this... 7 Standard +1 (8) Elder Library +1 (9) Cassandra +2 (11) Dreams of the Sphinx ( Tap putting on the last counter) +2 (13) Aura Reading +2 (15) Sascha Vykos +2 (17) Play another Dreams of the Sphinx 17 Handsize ( more than 1/6 of your deck) Just a thought, Justin -- Justin Lacey Tzimisce Historian of Charlotte [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <8vvh6g$2pe$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, ....salem.... <salem_...@my-deja.com> wrote: > In article <8vuqc3$h5q$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, > X_Ze...@email.msn.com wrote: > > I was thinking about Fortitude Shock Troops. You use them for Blood > > Dolls. They have to hunt at zero stealth but if someone blocks them > > then you just trap and undead persistance with some lucky blows to keep > > the pressess going. If they survive an entire turn in torpor,then you > > just rapid heal them back out. Rinse, Wash, Repeat. > > i was thinking along pot lines. increased strength alot. IG, undead strength. > if you have enough increased strength your little 1 cap pot card can take > down any sized blocker (barring flesh o marble and skin o steel, etc. :P). > and then they'll stop blocking. and then you go with that whole war > party/haven unconvered idea. O:) Hmmm... Seems to me that the way to go is thaumaturgy and Weather Control for some truly shocking troops (lightning warfare?). No need for IG, no fortitude escape. Sure, your weenie is torporized, but, hey, that's what they're for, ain't it? Of course no one's going to try to block them, so you'll probably need some form of rush to get them into combat. This concept is just an elaboration on the standard weenie th/Weather Control deck that uses Shock Troops to flesh out your weenie corps. I suspect the real problem with it will be getting a good balance when you need so many th masters _and_ so many Weather Control. Alex [ quoted text not captured ]