Idea to get WOTC's attention?

I was reminded for some reason about what we did one time in high school. (Boy, that was a long time ago). One of the guys in my class would be "sick" for weeks at a time, and we'd start the "Sean-o-meter" on the chalkboard to count the number of days he was gone. Perhaps doing something similar could get some action from WOTC. First we need to find the last posting Scalpel (Heck, I can't even remember his real name anymore) made. We count the number of days since that date. Then, each day, ONE (I stress one) designated person posts on the newsgroup the offical day count for the WOTC-o-meter (or Scalpometer?:). Also, everyone who wishes to participate, sends a copy of the message each day to the appropriate people at WOTC. Example message: Subject: Day 38 of WOTC absence from rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad This is the daily reminder that we, the players of Vampire: the Eternal Struggle, will not stop requesting WOTC support its game. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, make things happen to appoint a new NetRep. Sincerely, a disgruntled V:tES player [ end message ] Someone a little more eloquent could write a better message. The key is that everyone sends the same thing each and every day. Sure, they can start filtering their mail, but that isn't going to make them look any better. Suggestions? Mike Bohlmann

In the long run, it just dosen't matter. WOTC just dosen't care about Jyhad (VTES) or it's players. Magic is the money maker. Jyhad is just along for the ride. It's sort of like College sports. The mens teams (basketball and football) bring in the money to support the womens teams and the "lesser" mens teams. Unless you participate in one of the supported teams, you wouldn't care about them. Same thing with Magic & Jyhad. The only people that care about Jyhad are us players (and I have stopped buying any WOTC product - including Jyhad expansions - since DS). I have said before that I think WOTC is screwing over both Jyhad & Magic players. I have also said that they are marketing geniuses and I admire their ability to get people to buy cards (particulary Magic) by conveniently "phasing out" expansions & forcing people to buy the new sets to compete in tournaments. Instead of people getting upset and refusing to play the game, they just say "ok...I'll just stop using the 4 boxes of Ice Age I bought & spend $300 dollars on this new set. Thank you for screwing me over. I can't wait for you to do it again." Any intelligent response is welcome just as long as you agree with everything I said <g>. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:46:56 -0600, Ken Mikolaj <ke...@eden.com> wrote: >In the long run, it just dosen't matter. WOTC just dosen't care about >Jyhad (VTES) or it's players. Magic is the money maker. Jyhad is just >along for the ride. It's sort of like College sports. The mens teams >(basketball and football) bring in the money to support the womens teams >and the "lesser" mens teams. Unless you participate in one of the >supported teams, you wouldn't care about them. Same thing with Magic & >Jyhad. The only people that care about Jyhad are us players (and I have >stopped buying any WOTC product - including Jyhad expansions - since >DS). I have said before that I think WOTC is screwing over both Jyhad & >Magic players. I have also said that they are marketing geniuses and >I admire their ability to get people to buy cards (particulary Magic) by >conveniently "phasing out" expansions & forcing people to buy the new >sets to compete in tournaments. Instead of people getting upset and >refusing to play the game, they just say "ok...I'll just stop using the 4 >boxes of Ice Age I bought & spend $300 dollars on this new set. Thank >you for screwing me over. I can't wait for you to do it again." > >Any intelligent response is welcome just as long as you agree with >everything I said <g>. > Hah. Funny. ;) Really, though, even though we may _expect_ not to get support from WotC, we should be _able_ to expect support from them. If we whine at them enough, and make major nuisances of ourselves until we get our suport, maybe something will happen. Then again, maybe not. I hope we actually get another expansion, and I hope that it's not one designed by the in-house team at WotC. The idea isn't bad, we just need to be able to make sure that it happens. (Idea with possible implementation follows). >On 8 Jan 1997, michael charles bohlmann wrote: > >> >> I was reminded for some reason about what we did one time in high school. >> (Boy, that was a long time ago). One of the guys in my class would be >> "sick" for weeks at a time, and we'd start the "Sean-o-meter" on the >> chalkboard to count the number of days he was gone. >> >> Perhaps doing something similar could get some action from WOTC. First >> we need to find the last posting Scalpel (Heck, I can't even remember his >> real name anymore) made. We count the number of days since that date. >> Then, each day, ONE (I stress one) designated person posts on the newsgroup >> the offical day count for the WOTC-o-meter (or Scalpometer?:). Also, >> everyone who wishes to participate, sends a copy of the message each day >> to the appropriate people at WOTC. >> > Alec Chang

Hi Michael, On 8 Jan 1997, michael charles bohlmann wrote: > > I was reminded for some reason about what we did one time in high school. > (Boy, that was a long time ago). One of the guys in my class would be > "sick" for weeks at a time, and we'd start the "Sean-o-meter" on the > chalkboard to count the number of days he was gone. > I like it! > > Example message: > > Subject: Day 38 of WOTC absence from rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad > > This is the daily reminder that we, the players of Vampire: the Eternal > Struggle, will not stop requesting WOTC support its game. If you wish > to stop receiving these messages, make things happen to appoint a new > NetRep. > > Sincerely, > > a disgruntled V:tES player > > [ end message ] > Hmm. My experience is that I am far more likely to get what I want with a politely worded implied threat than with a bluntly worded threat. Perhaps the body of the message will serve us better with something like: This is a daily reminder that we, the players of Vampire: the Eternal Struggle, are still without support from a net rep... Something like that, anyway. Whatever, I'm in. Algustas *****Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun***** Mao Tse-Tung

Algustas (arob...@gladstone.uoregon.edu) wrote: : Hi Michael, : : > I was reminded for some reason about what we did one time in high school. : > (Boy, that was a long time ago). One of the guys in my class would be : > "sick" for weeks at a time, and we'd start the "Sean-o-meter" on the : > chalkboard to count the number of days he was gone. : : I like it! : Hmm. My experience is that I am far more likely to get what I : want with a politely worded implied threat than with a bluntly worded : threat. Perhaps the body of the message will serve us better with : something like: : This is a daily reminder that we, the players of Vampire: the : Eternal Struggle, are still without support from a net rep... I'm am sadly reminded of the last time the group decided that they needed to "remind" WotC of our frustration... you know, when Jon Wilkie was assigned to the job. I'm starting to think that the size of our voice is just not large enough to get a "real" response. In my experience, a minor annoyance is most often stopped with a quick fix... not a lasting solution. And I just don't see our polite reminders as anything but a minor annoyance to the customer service dept. of WotC. Perhaps others are less cynical than I... I would appreciate hearing about it... -spongy

> Example message: > Subject: Day 38 of WOTC absence from rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad I like this. Subtly annoying. Maybe this is what we need to start drawing their attention our way. Sorrow -- I don't want to be alone | I hurt, therefore I am anymore |-------------------------------- I don't want to be anyone | "What are you looking at...? anymore | you never seen anyone try to I don't need a reason to kill myself | commit suicide before?" - Anon ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Faethor <fae...@winternet.com> writes: > There's only ONE way to give WOTC a message they can understand, and >it'll take a hell of a lot more people than are on this newsgroup. The >answer? STOP BUYING THEIR SHIT. Simple as pie. Well, that should be part of it. I, personally, haven't bought a pack of anything WOTC since the beginning of December or even earlier.... > With the price of Jyhad boxes, I decided some time ago to not invest >in the upgrades. I traded for all the vampires and a few interesting >cards, but didn't buy more than three packs of AH or five of DS. >Stupidly, I bought a full box of Sabbat cards, and have found it the >worst card investment I've made. I bought a box and a half and almost feel the same way. > Jyhad (using the most current V:TES rules) has no trouble as a stand >alone game of quality. You can get over a thousand cards for ~$50.00. >The numbers work for me. Most definitely. But unless you get your whole playing circle to ban everything not in the basic set, you'll be outsupplied (you can still win, but similar decks with the newer cards should perform better). Mike

There's only ONE way to give WOTC a message they can understand, and it'll take a hell of a lot more people than are on this newsgroup. The answer? STOP BUYING THEIR SHIT. Simple as pie. With the price of Jyhad boxes, I decided some time ago to not invest in the upgrades. I traded for all the vampires and a few interesting cards, but didn't buy more than three packs of AH or five of DS. Stupidly, I bought a full box of Sabbat cards, and have found it the worst card investment I've made. Jyhad (using the most current V:TES rules) has no trouble as a stand alone game of quality. You can get over a thousand cards for ~$50.00. The numbers work for me. -j

jam...@dgii.com (James Puzzo) writes: >I'm am sadly reminded of the last time the group decided that they needed >to "remind" WotC of our frustration... you know, when Jon Wilkie was assigned >to the job. I'm starting to think that the size of our voice is just not >large enough to get a "real" response. In my experience, a minor annoyance >is most often stopped with a quick fix... not a lasting solution. And I >just don't see our polite reminders as anything but a minor annoyance >to the customer service dept. of WotC. >Perhaps others are less cynical than I... I would appreciate hearing about >it... I forwarded a copy of the original post to Shawn Carnes - as I have forwarded several other "WotC is screwing up" posts, at the request of Shawn who asked to be kept apprised of the thinkings of the news group (he doens't have time to read the group himself, which is why he had to give up his post as Net.Rep). Anyway, here's his reply: Well, for what it's worth... I have notified Kyle Namvar, the head of the Customer Service team, about the absence. We will see if *this* will generate something. For what good it does, could you pass the word that I am looking into all of this? I suppose a little water couldn't hurt the blazing inferno of disillusionment. :) --Shawn -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | * - Tribble http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | (-*-) - Darth Tribble in his Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | TIE Fighter

Algustas <arob...@gladstone.uoregon.edu> writes: > >On 8 Jan 1997, michael charles bohlmann wrote: > [Suggestions for a daily post about the number of WotC absence days deleted] [BTW I agree with the idea, though I doubt it will have much effect] > > Hmm. My experience is that I am far more likely to get what I >want with a politely worded implied threat than with a bluntly worded >threat. Perhaps the body of the message will serve us better with >something like: > This is a daily reminder that we, the players of Vampire: the >Eternal Struggle, are still without support from a net rep... > > Something like that, anyway. Whatever, I'm in. > > Algustas I haven't seen anything in either this newsgroup or on WotC's Web site (don't laugh you bad boys out there!), but well, that's what rumors are for... The local dealer told me that WotC was dropping V:tES into White Wolf's lap. I'm not sure what exaclty that means, but he seemed to assume that WotC would not print any more V:tES cards, and that the whole game would now be produced by White Wolf, including (possibly) future printings of Sabbat cards and certainly any future expansions. He also told me they had not heard from WW on the future of the game, though. What bugs me here is that WW apparently totally dropped their CCG line (this is what was said in rec.games.trading-cards.misc by someone from WW, I don't remember who). Well, after all, who cares ? No support from WotC or no support from WW, that's not too different; and less coverage in the Duelist won't make that much of a difference either... Now wait; maybe WW will print new cards without the "Deckmaster" logo on the back so we can have a nice mix of card backs ? :( Anybody heard of this from another source ? Maybe Scalpel will tell us ;) I sent the question to cust...@wizards.com, for what it's worth, just in case Scalpel forgets to reply. Philippe Duchon (duc...@labri.u-bordeaux.fr)

Day 45 of WOTC's absence from rec.games.trading-card.jyhad sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) writes: > Well, for what it's worth... > > I have notified Kyle Namvar, the head of the Customer Service team, about > the absence. We will see if *this* will generate something. > > For what good it does, could you pass the word that I am looking into all > of this? I suppose a little water couldn't hurt the blazing inferno of > disillusionment. :) > > --Shawn Well, look what happens when action of any kind is threatened. Thanks, LSJ, for keeping him and us up with what is going on here and at WOTC respectively. So, since Shawn has given us something, we will NOT start sending mail for two weeks. I think two weeks is a fair enough time for them to make some progress on this problem. If not, then we'll continue. I would post the daily message with the WOTC-o-meter, but it would only annoy players, rather than WOTC. In any posts I make, I'll mention how many days it has been. Mike mboh...@uiuc.edu

michael charles bohlmann (mboh...@students.uiuc.edu) wrote: : Day 45 of WOTC's absence from rec.games.trading-card.jyhad : sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) writes: : > Well, for what it's worth... : > : > I have notified Kyle Namvar, the head of the Customer Service team, about : > the absence. We will see if *this* will generate something. : > : > For what good it does, could you pass the word that I am looking into all : > of this? I suppose a little water couldn't hurt the blazing inferno of : > disillusionment. :) : > : > --Shawn : Well, look what happens when action of any kind is threatened. Thanks, : LSJ, for keeping him and us up with what is going on here and at WOTC : respectively. Cynic that I am... 1) The last time action was threatened, we were "given" Jon Wilkie. 2) Jon gave someone a similar message, stating that WOTC was doing something... with NO further information. (The message that was posted is attached at the end). : So, since Shawn has given us something, we will NOT start sending mail : for two weeks. I think two weeks is a fair enough time for them to make : some progress on this problem. If not, then we'll continue. Given the history, I would suggest that now would be the _perfect_ time to start sending questions and reminders. At least we know that SOMEONE is paying attention right now. Of course, it would still need to be a politely worded reminder of our frustration... My one beef about this whole thing: we STILL, as a newsgroup, have not received a direct response from WotC regarding their position on the matter. It's all well and good that people are funneling messages from WotC representatives, but it's not demonstrating much respect for the group by not making a post directly. Ah well. Ignore me at will... -spongy

michael charles bohlmann (mboh...@students.uiuc.edu) wrote: : Day 45 of WOTC's absence from rec.games.trading-card.jyhad Oh yeah, I forgot to post that message which passed on the Info. from John Wilkie... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: I talked to JOHN WILKIE today . . . From: Mishra worker <mis...@intergate.bc.ca> Date: 1996/12/20 Because everyone has been unhappy with the way WotC has been treating this newsgroup, organizing mass e-mail complaints and so forth, I decided to phone John Wilkie directly and ask what was wrong (yes, I know his direct phone number, and no, I'm not telling anyone what it is). Here's what I was told: Wizards is in the process of finding someone there who has the time to service the newsgroup adequately. In a few days they will post letting you know what has happened. So everyone let's wait a few days for the update. Obviously, servicing this newsgroup is a fairly time-consuming task and John Wilkie, as a customer service representative, has to spend most of his day answering the hundreds of calls WotC gets every day so he couldn't meet the demands of answering newsgroup questions. It didn't help that John was also unable to make offical rulings without consulting the 'Rules Team' so I don't fault John for the service the newsgroup has received. Hopefully WotC will rectify this.

Mike Bohlmann replies: >Most definitely. But unless you get your whole playing circle to ban >everything not in the basic set, you'll be outsupplied (you can still >win, >but similar decks with the newer cards should perform better). This is true in many situations, but not as often as you might think. I've traded for expansion set cards I find to be useful or too powerful not to have a mutual balance of power. <g> A perfect example, I'm (still) looking for a Crimson Sentinal, and at least two more Shotgun Rituals. Jay

In article <5b3jsd$i...@gw0.dgii.com>, jam...@dgii.com (James Puzzo) wrote: > I'm am sadly reminded of the last time the group decided that they needed > to "remind" WotC of our frustration... you know, when Jon Wilkie was assigned > to the job. I'm starting to think that the size of our voice is just not > large enough to get a "real" response. In my experience, a minor annoyance > is most often stopped with a quick fix... not a lasting solution. And I > just don't see our polite reminders as anything but a minor annoyance > to the customer service dept. of WotC. Although Jon is unable to continue as our NetRep, please be patient; a new (non-employee) candidate has been approached. As soon as the legal details have been completed (said candidate must read and agree to our standard Network Representative agreement), I'll be making an announcement here. I *do* appreciate your frustration, as do Jon and Shawn -- they're simply unable to handle the duties for which their managers pay them AND cover the V:tES/Jyhad online venues satisfactorily. -- Charles Keith-Stanley were...@wizards.com Cyberspace Coordinator lia...@wizards.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc. http://www.wizards.com

Charles Keith-Stanley (lia...@wizards.com) wrote: : Although Jon is unable to continue as our NetRep, please be patient; a new : (non-employee) candidate has been approached. As soon as the legal details : have been completed (said candidate must read and agree to our standard : Network Representative agreement), I'll be making an announcement here. I appreciate your input. You couldn't be urged to reveal the candidate's credentials, could you? Again, thanks for listening. It is encouraging to note that WotC is finally showing some desire to support their product. -James

lia...@wizards.com (Charles Keith-Stanley) writes: >In article <5b3jsd$i...@gw0.dgii.com>, jam...@dgii.com (James Puzzo) wrote: >Although Jon is unable to continue as our NetRep, please be patient; a new >(non-employee) candidate has been approached. As soon as the legal details >have been completed (said candidate must read and agree to our standard >Network Representative agreement), I'll be making an announcement here. That's great! Unless LSJ is holding out on us, I'll be interested in who they've gotten. >I *do* appreciate your frustration, as do Jon and Shawn -- they're simply >unable to handle the duties for which their managers pay them AND cover the >V:tES/Jyhad online venues satisfactorily. I'm truely impressed. Finally, after 45 days, we get an official post saying what's up. Let's just hope this new netrep doesn't drop off the face of the Internet, too..... Mike mboh...@uiuc.edu

Faethor <fae...@winternet.com> writes: > There's only ONE way to give WOTC a message they can understand, and >it'll take a hell of a lot more people than are on this newsgroup. The >answer? STOP BUYING THEIR SHIT. Simple as pie. I'm never going to buy anything with a V:tES back, period. > Jyhad (using the most current V:TES rules) has no trouble as a stand >alone game of quality. You can get over a thousand cards for ~$50.00. Jyhad compares remarkably well to any other CCG, including V:TES. If you play V:TES rather than Jyhad, you must pay quite a bit more $$$ for a less well-balanced game. Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)

Thanks WOTC. We havent lost faith, just a little heart. Thanks for letting us know you still care about us. Michael Courtois Prince of Athens & spender of $MONEY$ on VtES.

Time will judge the worth of their word. -j

In article <5b5mkq$s...@gw0.dgii.com>, James Puzzo <jam...@dgii.com> writes >Because everyone has been unhappy with the way WotC has been treating this >newsgroup I don't think the way WotC has been treating this newsgroup is the problem (after all, it is only a newsgroup that isn't really their responsibility). What I think is the problem is the way WotC has been treating Jyhad. I mean, Jyhad has been out roughly the same length of time as Magic but which one of them has a magazine that is almost dedicated to them. I'll give you a clue, it begins with Magic and ends with The Gathering. They do, occassionally, put very menial bits of Jyhad/Vampire in there, the Sabbat card lists, the *two page* special in the latest issue that I have which tells you to put intercept in your deck. These really do loads for Jyhad. Magic has huge amounts of conventions and the backing of the DCI. It's taken WotC ages to get their arses into gear and actually start trying to get the DCI to have some good rules for Jyhad. And then there's the fiasco with expansions not being available on time. I mean, I can't remember the last thing that WotC did for Vampire: TES that came out when they said it would (it might be better in America, but it's pretty appalling in England). It's hugely annoying for players and for the shops that have to chase up their orders only to be told that it isn't available yet. What I'd like to see is WotC actually put their mouth where *our* money is and maybe do something like organise a National Vampire: TES Championship. I mean, it's pretty popular and if they staged it at somewhere like GenCon or GenCon UK (depending on whether they wanted to run it for America, Britain, Europe etc.) they wouldn't even have to go to the trouble of organising a convention around it. It would get the game some much needed publicity. Come on WotC. We love Jyhad and all the supplements and are glad that it was pretty well designed in the first place so it didn't have to go through *five* rules editions. However, what we would like is the opportunity to have Jyhad tournaments and a bit of backing for a game which has far more atmosphere than Magic and is *far* more fun to play (runs off and hides, expecting to be flamed by Magic players - but still stands by what he says - Jyhad is generally more fun than Magic). -- James Coupe.