Wallpaper by Association

In the recent thread about the costs of various "tap to give +1 stealth" locations, the justification for different costs is that some clans have access to cheap stealth in other ways, and some don't, which is fine. This sort of thinking, when applied to discipline cards as a whole, makes some of them rather wallpapery, due to the other discipline cards someone using them would have available. What got me thinking about this is the new Shadow Parasite (Combat, Obt, 2 blood, 3R only usable at range (S) 4R only usable at range). If I'm using obtenebration, then I'm pretty much using Lasombra, and have access to potence, so I can flip a Sewer Lid at you for free, instead of paying two blood. (Superior on that trades the extra point of damage for a press, but it's fairly similar.) Given that, I doubt I'd ever actually use Shadow Parasite, as I'd rather save my blood (and use a strike that can be Increase Strengthed) far more times than I'd like to do one more damage with my OBT vamps. So, in the future, when designing cards, the scopes of not only the discipline in question, but also disciplines likely to occur with it, need to be taken into account. To some extent this is already done, such as the low availability of vamps that can take advantage of things such as superior Form of Mist as well as a nasty bleeding discipline. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Mail: santiago [at] umug [dot] org || Web: http://santiago.umug.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Usenet is like a stampeding herd of elephants with diarrhea--immense, unpredictable, awe-inspiring, and capable of producing vast amounts of crap nearly instantly."

[ quoted text not captured ] Some cards are very limited in scope. For an example, if you decide you are going to use a ventrue deck with obtenebration (for whatever reason). I feel most of the first powerbases are wallpaper for this reason as well. Too limited in usefulness.

On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 22:36:07 -0500, Santiago <sant...@nastyPinkCannedMeat.umug.org> wrote: >about this is the new Shadow Parasite (Combat, Obt, 2 blood, 3R only >usable at range (S) 4R only usable at range). If I'm using >obtenebration, then I'm pretty much using Lasombra, and have access to >potence, so I can flip a Sewer Lid at you for free, instead of paying >two blood. (Superior on that trades the extra point of damage for a >press, but it's fairly similar.) Given that, I doubt I'd ever actually >use Shadow Parasite, as I'd rather save my blood (and use a strike that >can be Increase Strengthed) far more times than I'd like to do one more Idle note: Sewer Lids require that you have Potence. Being able to rely on only one discipline is vastly superior to having to mix-n-match between two. for example: Aaron Duggan receives an OBT skill card. He plays Bum's Rush, adds a free stealth card so it's not blocked, then maneuvers to long with the Rush maneuver. He plays Arms of the Abyss at superior to see what you'll do, and if you don't play S:CE, he ONLY THEN plays Shadow Parasite and spends his 2 blood. Only 4 cards, and a 2-cap with a skill card just did it. Or Guido, the Impotent could do it as well - and neither of these vamps could throw a Sewer Lid. An EMBRACE with two skill cards could do this (as long as it managed to get some blood from somewhere; I like the idea of making Sabbat Embraces with the Hungry Coyote in play, so they all come out at 2 blood =) -- Derek

Santiago wrote: > usable at range (S) 4R only usable at range). If I'm using > obtenebration, then I'm pretty much using Lasombra, and have access to Master: Discipline cards are not restricted to particular clans. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

In message <co88jt8vvb8m17eg7...@4ax.com>, Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> writes >Idle note: Sewer Lids require that you have Potence. And don't, of course, benefit from the Path of Night. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D "You reinstall Dial-Up Networking. The Elf screams and becomes EBD690ECD7A1F an icon. *** CONGRATULATIONS! *** You completed the BT Internet B457CA213D7E6 Helpdesk training course in 15 out of a possible 9000 moves." 68C3695D623D5D

>>Idle note: Sewer Lids require that you have Potence. > >And don't, of course, benefit from the Path of Night. In addition I think I'll take the time to point out that it would be *bad* to assume that Obtenebration players would use Lasombra and would thus have access to Potence's Sewer Lid, as was asserted by the original poster. The original poster discussed how Shadow Parasite was redundant b/c of the Lid. But I think following this logic would actually be bad since it would effectively limit Obtenebration. Sure it might be great for the Lasombra, but it would make other clans using Obtenebration much less viable. Halcyan 2

On Sat, 23 Jun 2001 14:31:39 +0100, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: >In message <co88jt8vvb8m17eg7...@4ax.com>, Derek Ray ><lor...@yahoo.com> writes >>Idle note: Sewer Lids require that you have Potence. > >And don't, of course, benefit from the Path of Night. oo! +2 fun! -- Derek

Right you are. There are 15 Vamps with Obtenebration that aren't Lasombra. There are only 13 Lasombra with Obt. It all depends on the deck. If you're playing with weenies & midcaps that only need inf obt, you would probably mix clans. If you need SUP obt, then you'd play with Lasombra. You could even build an AUS/OBT deck to use Spirit's Touch for the maneuver for your Shadow Parasite. (10 vamps have aus&obt, only 2 are Lasombra). -Brian "Halcyan 2" <halc...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20010623104306...@ng-mc1.aol.com... [ quoted text not captured ]