Mind Rape question

I know that the ruling for Mind Rape has been errata-ed (is that even a word??), but I have a question regarding the card text as it stood before the ruling (which is probably in some FAQ somewhere) Here is the card text in case anyone isn't familiar: dom: D bleed at + 2 bleed DOM: Put this card on a younger vampire; you gain control of that vampire. Put two ego counters on this card. During each of your untap phases, burn one ego counter on this card. Burn this card when the last ego counter is removed. Okay . . . nowhere in that text does it say to "return vampire to its original controller after this card is burned." So by the exact ruling on the text, if I successfully performed a Mind Rape, I would gain PERMANENT control of the younger vampire I selected? I mean - it seems like the ego counters are there to make it a temporary control, but it isn't explicitly stated. Is this control a temporary one? (before the errata changed it to make good sense) This is a curiosity because there are playgroups here that don't like to have an entire binder full of rules for the cards so they "play them as they read them." Help! Myron Mychal

Errated would be a more correct expression, I think. As soon as the last ego counter is burned, you should return the vampire to the one it belongs to (the one that had this vampire in front of him when the card Mind Rape was played). Otherwise, this card is obviously broken!!!! Use common sense when you play cards and remember that the action "you win the game" still don't exist! :-) If your group disagree about how cards should be played, do a vote involving all the players to settle the interpretation. It would be wise to settle the "problem cards" before the game begins: this way, you will lower the risk of fustrations. My group don't like to read x erratas sheets (I do like to know what all the erratas are) so for many cases, we settled the problem with votes enforced by common-sense. It work well! :-) - A Mind Rape player

[ quoted text not captured ] As written, you would gain permanent control, yes. Corrective errata was issued to make the card function as intended on 24-FEB-97 (i.e., control of the vampire reverts to his former controller when the last ego counter on Mind Rape is removed.) And later, as you mention, the intended function of the card was overturned to its current state: * New card text for superior: "(D) put this card on a younger vampire and tap that vampire. The vampire with this card does not untap as normal during his controller's untap phase. During the acting vampire's controller's next minion phase, she must burn this card to untap the vampire and take control of the vampire until the end of her turn." [RTR 980707] -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

Voting is good but sometimes when we (our playgroup) really doesn't know we tend to use rock-scissors-paper. Works every time. Robert

LSJ wrote: > > > This is a curiosity because there are playgroups here that don't like to > > have an entire binder full of rules for the cards so they "play them as they > > read them." Help! > > As written, you would gain permanent control, yes. > Umm... that's not true. The card is what gives you control of the vampire. Once the card is burnt, there's no longer any effect which gives you control. So it goes back, obviously. If the card said, "you permanently gain control of that vampire," it'd be different, but that's not what it says. -Chris

(A reminder to those coming in on the middle of this thread: we're talking about the old, as-printed version of Mind Rape, not the card as it functions under current errata). Chris Berger <ber...@cco.caltech.edu> wrote: > LSJ wrote: > > > This is a curiosity because there are playgroups here that don't like to > > > have an entire binder full of rules for the cards so they "play them as they > > > read them." Help! > > > > As written, you would gain permanent control, yes. > > > Umm... that's not true. The card is what gives you control of the > vampire. Once the card is burnt, there's no longer any effect which > gives you control. Q: Once Far Mastery is burnt, what effect gives you control (of the stolen Retainer/Ally)? A: Current control. Control is changed permanently. The new control is not layered on top of the old control (unless card text indicates otherwise). Control is a self-continuing thing. > So it goes back, obviously. Q: What causes it to go back? A: Errata issued on 24-FEB-97 You had control. The card is burnt. You still have control. Nothing about the card being burnt changed who controls any particular card. Nothing on the "stolen" vampire ties him back to his "rightful" controller. By all accounts (on card texts and rules), you are his rightful controller. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ wrote: > > (A reminder to those coming in on the middle of this thread: we're > talking about the old, as-printed version of Mind Rape, not the card > as it functions under current errata). > > Chris Berger <ber...@cco.caltech.edu> wrote: > > LSJ wrote: > > > > This is a curiosity because there are playgroups here that don't like to > > > > have an entire binder full of rules for the cards so they "play them as > they > > > > read them." Help! > > > > > > As written, you would gain permanent control, yes. > > > > > Umm... that's not true. The card is what gives you control of the > > vampire. Once the card is burnt, there's no longer any effect which > > gives you control. > > Q: Once Far Mastery is burnt, what effect gives you control (of the > stolen Retainer/Ally)? > A: Current control. > Far Mastery is never put into play. Therefore, Far Mastery is burnt when played, before you gain control of the retainer ally. It's effects give you control, and there is no mention of when the effects end. Mind Rape is put into play, and the card in play gives you control. It tells you when to burn the card, and thus when the effects end. Anyway, I agree it's kind of a silly argument. But no errata was really needed, as the card makes it obvious when control goes back. -Chris