rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Complete Rules Outline

8 messages from 5 participants · 02 October 1995 – 10 October 1995
original thread on Google Groups

L. Scott Johnson

V:tES Complete Rules Reference (version 2.0) ============================================= Rules and errata compiled by L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu). Proofed and extensively tested by Shane H. W. Travis (tra...@duke.usask.ca). Changes are identified with exclamation marks in the margin. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I. SETUP ----- A. Determine seating and first player. Turns proceed clockwise. (4.2.6) 1. The player to your left is your Prey. The player to your right is your Predator. (4.2.1) [11.5] The "Prey" of a Minion is the controlling Methuselah's Prey. [TOM] 2. If seating changes during the course of the game, then the person who is then to your left becomes your new Prey. [11.5] B. Choose Edge Counter and Blood Counters. (1) 1. Place all Blood Counters in the Blood Bank area (central). (4.2.2) 2. The Blood Bank cannot run out of Blood Counters. (4.2.2) [11.3] 3. Place the Edge in the central area. It starts the game uncontrolled. C. Put 30 pool in each Methuselah's Blood Pool. (4.2.2) [11.2] D. Shuffle Vampire and Library decks (separately). (4.2.3) [11.4] 1. Each Methuselah's Library deck must contain forty cards. It may have up to ten additional cards per Methuselah in the game. (1) [5] 2. Each Methuselah's Vampire deck must contain at least twelve cards. It may contain any number of cards over twelve. (1) [5] E. Cut the Vampire and Library decks of your Prey. (4.2.3) [11.4] F. Each Methuselah antes her top Library card (optional). (13) [11.6] G. Each Methuselah deals four Crypt cards to her inactive region. (4.2.4) NOTE: You may look at the cards in your own inactive region whenever you wish. (4.2.4) [11.4] H. Each Methuselah deals seven Library cards to her hand. (4.2.5) [11.4] 1. Library cards are replaced immediately as they are played or discarded. 2. Cards which say "Do Not Replace Until After Combat" are replaced at the end of the next Combat, or as soon as the action is finished. [RTR] 3. Cards burned for votes during a political action are not replaced until after the action is completed. (7) [17.1] II. TURN PHASES ----------- A. UNTAP PHASE (6.1) [12.1] NOTE: If, on your prior turn, you announced your intention to Withdraw, and have successfully fulfilled all requirements, you Withdraw. (10.1) [18.2] See section VI for details. 1. Untap all cards. (6.1) Paralyzed Vampires do not untap. (22.1) [15.3] ! 2. If you have a contested card which all other Methuselahs have yielded, ! it becomes uncontested (controlled) and is untapped. (15) 3. Take the following steps in any order. (6.1) [12.1] ! a. (optional) If you have the Edge, add one blood to your pool from the blood bank. (6.1) [12.1] b. Contest or Yield your contested cards and titles. (16) [12.1] i. Pay one pool for each unique card that you are Contesting. (16) [8] ii. Pay one vampire blood for any title that the vampire is Contesting. A Vampire may choose to go to Torpor if he has no blood to pay. Vampires in Torpor must yield. (15.1) [17.2] A Contested Vampire holding a Contested Title must yield the Title. [TOM] iii. Burn any card that you are yielding, along with any other cards or blood on that yielded card. (15) [8] c. Resolve card effects that occur during the Untap Phase. (6.1) [12.1] d. (Optional) Announce your intention to Withdraw. (10.1) [18.2] 4. Any vampire in torpor still contesting a title yields. (15.1.3) [17.2] ! B. MASTER PHASE (6.2) [12.2] ! 1. Receive ONE Master Phase Action. You do not receive this Action if you ! have played an Out-of-Turn Master since your last turn. (3.2.1) 2. Take the following steps in any order and combination. ! a. (optional) Use a Master Phase Action to play a Master card. b. Resolve card effects that occur during the master phase. ! 3. Lose any unused Master Phase Action(s). ! C. MINION PHASE (6.3) [12.3] NOTE: Any untapped Minion may tap to take one of the following actions. Each Minion's Action is resolved before the next Minion Action begins. ! The only action a Vampire in Torpor may take is "Leave Torpor". (19) ! EXCEPTION: any time one or more of your Vampires is Ready and has zero ! blood and is not prevented from hunting, your next Minion Action must ! be to hunt with one of those Vampires. (6.4) 1. (D) Bleed Prey Methuselah (NO card). (6.4) [12.3.1 p21] a. Your Prey burns one pool. b. You get the Edge if you bleed for one or more pool. 2. Hunt (NO card). Kindred ONLY. (6.4) [12.3.1 p23] a. This action is at +1 Stealth. b. A Vampire at full capacity may not hunt. (6.4) c. Add one blood to the Acting Vampire from the Blood Bank. 3. Employ Retainer (REQ: Retainer card). (6.4) [12.3.1 p21] a. This action is at +1 Stealth. b. Put the Retainer on the Acting Minion. 4. Recruit Ally (REQ: Ally card). (6.4) [12.3.1 p23] a. This action is at +1 Stealth. b. Put the Ally in the Inactive Region to indicate that it cannot act. c. Put Life counters on the Ally from the Blood Bank. 5. Equip Minion (REQ: Equipment card). (6.4) [12.3.1 p22] a. This action is at +1 Stealth. b. Put the Equipment card on the Acting Minion. 6. Take Equipment from another Minion controlled by the same Methuselah (NO card). (6.4) [12.3.1 p22] a. This action is at +1 Stealth. b. Move the Equipment to the Acting Minion. c. Any amount Equipment may be taken at one time from the same Minion. 7. Leave Torpor (NO card). (19) [12.3.1 p23] a. This action is at +1 Stealth. ! b. Burn two blood from the Acting Vampire and move the Acting Vampire ! to the Active Region (tapped). ! 8. Rescue a Vampire in Torpor. Kindred ONLY. (NO card) (19) a. This action is at +1 Stealth if it is in your own Torpor Area. b. This is (D) action if it is not in your own Torpor Area. c. Burn two blood. This may be done by taking two blood from either vampire, or one from each. ! NOTE: The acting Methuselah chooses how the blood loss is allocated. NOTE: Rescuing a Paralyzed Vampire costs no blood. (22.1) [15.3] ! 9. Commit Diablerie. Kindred ONLY. (NO card) (19) a. This action is at +1 Stealth if target is in your own Torpor Area. b. This is (D) action if target is not in your own Torpor Area. c. Burn the target Vampire in Torpor. The Acting Vampire gets all of the Equipment and blood from the burned Vampire. Other cards on the burned Vampire are burned as well. ! i. Remove blood in excess of capacity from the Diabolist. [RTR] ii. If the Acting Vampire is younger than the Diablerized Vampire, the ! controlling Methuselah may go through her hand, Library, and/or Ash Heap to find a Skill card to place on the Acting Vampire. iii. Any Methuselah may immediately call a Bloodhunt vote to burn the Diabolist. A successful vote means the Acting Vampire is burned. This is not an Action and may not be Blocked. (20.2) 9. Call Vote (REQ: Political Action card). (7) [12.3.1 p24] a. This action is at +1 Stealth. b. Resolve the Vote. [17.1] See section IV. ! 10. Play an Action card (REQ: Action card). (3.2.2) a. Get the Edge if you Bleed any Methuselah for one or more pool. b. An uncontrolled Vampire may be given more blood than his blood capacity. Any excess will drain off when he becomes controlled. [TOM] 11. Other actions as allowed by cards already in play (NO card). NOTE: an action which initiates combat cannot be used to initiate combat with a vampire in torpor. [RTR] ! D. INFLUENCE PHASE (9) [12.4] 1. Gain Transfers (aka Influence Phase Actions"). a. On turns 1, 2, and 3, gain only 1, 2, or 3 transfers, respectively. b. Each turn after the third, gain exactly 4 transfers. 2. You may spend your Transfers in any combination of the following: [12.4] a. 1: move one of your pool to one of your uncontrolled Vampires. b. 2: move one blood from one of your uncontrolled Vampires to your pool. c. 4: burn one pool and move one Vampire from your Crypt to your uncontrolled area. 3. Any remaining Transfers are lost. [RMc] 4. Any uncontrolled Vampires with Blood equal or greater than to their blood capacity become controlled and move to the Ready area untapped. ! E. DISCARD PHASE (5.5) Discard up to ONE card from Hand to Ash Heap. (16) F. END TURN - Move any new Allies to your Active Region. (6.4) [12.3.1 p24] NOTE: Any time a second copy of a Unique card comes into play, it is Contested. NOTE: If your Prey is ousted at any time during anyone's turn, then you gain a Victory Point, even if you are ousted at the same time. (10) [18.1] You gain six pool unless you would be ousted without it during the same event. (!10) A Methuselah takes all of the cards she started with back (out of play) the moment she is ousted. (11) [9] NOTE: Only one Master Out-of-Turn card may be played (at any time) in lieu of ! a Master Phase Action in your next Master Phase. You cannot play a Master Out-of-Turn card during your own turn. (3.2.1) III. HOW TO RESOLVE ACTIONS ---------------------- A. Acting Minion is tapped. (6.3.1) [12.3] B. Who can attempt to Block (18.1) [13.3.1] 1. If (D) then only the target Methuselah's Minions can attempt to block. NOTE: If the target Methuselah is also the Acting Methuselah, then no Minion may attempt to block. [TOM] 2. If Action is nondirected, then rights to block are resolves as follows: a. The Prey Methuselah can attempt to block. b. If Prey fails to block then Predator can attempt to block. 3. Other Methuselah's attempts resolve clockwise from the Prey. [RTR] C. An attempt to block is resolved as follows: (18.2) [13.3] 1. Pick blocking Minion. (18.2.1) 2. Determine if block is successful. [13.3.2] a. Blocking Minion can play a Reaction card to increase Intercept only if the Acting Minion has Stealth greater than the Blocking Minion's Intercept. (!18.2.3) Any cost of the the Reaction is paid. b. Acting Minion can play an Action Modifier card to increase Stealth only if the Blocking Minion has at least as much Intercept as the ! Acting Minion's Stealth. (!18.2.2) Increased stealth lasts until the ! action is finished. [13.3.2] c. Repeat a,b above until neither Minion wishes to play a card. 3. If the Intercept of the Blocker is at least as much as the Stealth of the Acting Minion, then the Action is blocked. (18.2.4) [13.3.2] a. Tap Blocking Minion. [13.3.1] b. Burn any Action card that was played for the Action. c. Play any Action modifier or Reaction cards which can be played after an Action is blocked. [RTR] (reversal) d. Resolve Combat. 4. If the Stealth of the Acting Minion is greater than the Intercept of the Blocking Minion then another Minion of that Methuselah can attempt to block. [13.3.2] D. If Action was not blocked then the Action is resolved. (6.3.4) 1. Pay cost associated with Action. 2. Resolve Action (resolve vote if Political Action). NOTE: Action Modifiers may be played only by the Acting Vampire at any time in the above sequence as allowed by the card. Any cost for playing the ! modifier is paid only if the action is successful. (6.3.2.1) The same Minion may not use the same Action Modifier twice. (3.2.2) [7.2.2] Only Action Modifiers appropriate to the Action may be played. e.g., you may not use ! Bonding on a non-Bleed Action. [RTR] Action Modifiers may only be played ! on your own turn. (3.2.2) NOTE: Reaction cards can not be played on your own turn. A Minion cannot use the same Reaction card twice during one Action. (3.2.2) [7.2.2] IV. HOW TO RESOLVE A VOTE (7) ------------------------- NOTE: Herein, the voting process will be called the Referendum, to avoid confusing the voting process with the votes cast. [LSJ] A. Replace the Card used to call the Referendum. B. Set the Terms of the Referendum. NOTE: The Terms are not set until the action is successful (remains unblocked) (18.3) C. Referendum. No cards are replaced until the action is completed. Cards which are "Only Usable During a Political Action" can only be played during this step (step C.) [RTR] 1. Preparatory Step. [RTR] a. Play cards which are only usable "before votes are cast" b. Gain votes (which will be held until step 2.) (see D.) 2. Vote Casting Step. [RTR] a. There is no obligation to vote. b. Methuselahs have NO inherent votes. c. Gain votes. (see D.) and Cast votes. ! d. (optional) Close the vote after 15 seconds with now new votes. 3. Vote Tally Step. [RTR] a. Determine the outcome of the Referendum. i. A referendum succeeds if it has more votes for than against. ii. A referendum fails if it has as many or more votes against as it has for. b. Cards which depend on the outcome of a Referendum may be played. [RTR] D. How to gain votes NOTE: The votes gained need not be cast. [RTR] (reversal) ! 1. If a Vampire or yours called the Referendum, you gain 1 vote. 2. Any Methuselah may burn a political card in her hand to gain one additional vote per card burned. 3. Methuselahs gain votes for controlling ready titled Vampires. a. A ready Primogen provides one vote. b. A ready Prince provides two votes. c. A ready Justicar provides three votes. d. Other Minions provide zero votes. e. If a titled Vampire gains another title, the old title is lost, even if the new title would be a demotion. (!7) f. A Vampire's Contested title provides no votes. (!7) 4. If you have the Edge, you may sacrifice the Edge to gain one vote. If this is done, the Edge returns to the central area. 5. The Acting Vampire can play Action Modifiers to gain votes. 6. Other Methuselahs' untapped Minions may play Reaction cards to gain votes. NOTE: Action Modifiers and Reaction cards CANNOT be played during a vote for a Bloodhunt immediately after a Diablerie. (20.2) [16.3] NOTE: Votes gained from Vampires (either from Action Modifiers and Reactions or from Titles) come from both the Vampire and the Controlling Methuselah. [RTR] V. HOW TO RESOLVE A COMBAT (8) [15] -------------------------------- NOTE: If one of the Minions involved in the Combat is a Vampire in Torpor, then Combat does NOT occur. If the opposing Minion is a ready Vampire, then he has the opportunity to Diablerize. If the opposing Minion is also a Vampire in Torpor, or is an Ally, then Combat does NOT occur and nothing happens. [precedent set by blocking a 'Leave Torpor' action and by blocking a 'Rapid Healing' action -LSJ] NOTE: You can't use combat cards if you're not involved in the combat. [TOM] A. Round begins. B. Play Combat cards or use Combat effects of cards in play. 1. Acting Minion may use Combat effects before establishing range. 2. Blocking Minion may use Combat effects before establishing range. 3. Repeat steps 1 and 2 until neither Minion wishes to use effects. C. Establish range. (21) [15.1] Each round begins at close range. (!21) 1. Acting Minion may use a Maneuver to set range to long. 2. If Acting Minion did not use a Maneuver then Blocking may use a Maneuver to set range to long. 3. If either Minion used a Maneuver, then use the following procedure: a. Opposing Minion has option to use a Maneuver to cancel the Maneuver. b. If the Maneuver was canceled then the Minion who played it has an option to play another Maneuver to make the range long again. c. Repeat a and b above until a Minion does not Maneuver. d. If there is an uncanceled Maneuver then the range is long. 4. If a weapon or a strike card is used to Maneuver, then the minion using the maneuver must use that card for his first strike of the round. [15.1] D. Strike. (8.1) [15.1] 1. Minions announce their strikes and, for ranged attacks, the targets. a. Acting Minion announces Strike and Target before Blocking Minion does. b. Non-ranged offensive strikes can only target the opposing Minion. c. Ranged offensive strikes can target either the opposing Minion or, if the range is long, one of his Retainers. (20.1) 3. Resolve Strikes in the following order: [15.3] ! a. Strike: Combat Ends. (8.3) b. Strike: Dodge. (8.3) NOTE: Damage directed at Retainers cannot be avoided by Strike: Dodge. c. Strike: First Strike effects. (resolve steps 4-7 before moving on to step d). (8.3) d. Other Strike effects. (resolve steps 4-7) 4. Apply damage done by strike. Normal damage is applied before aggravated damage if a mix of normal and aggravated damage is applied. [RTR] a. Vampires spend one blood to heal each point of normal damage. (8.1) b. Vampires who cannot heal all of the damage (damage > blood) must spend all of their blood and then will be placed in torpor after any aggravated damage is applied (see step 6). ! c. Vampires burn one blood for each point of aggravated damage. (21) d. Allies and Retainers lose one life for each point of damage inflicted. ! NOTE: Damage to Retainers can be prevented with cards as normal. (20.1) 5. Apply other effects of strikes (simultaneously with step 4). a. Destroy Equipment. Burn a single Equipment card on the opposing Minion. Only at close range. (8.3) [15.3] b. Steal Equipment. Move a single Equipment card from the opposing Minion to this Minion. Only at close range. (8.3) [15.3] NOTE: This equipment may not be used by the stealing Minion until after the current round of Combat. (8.3) [15.3] c. Steal Blood. Removes blood from the opponent and places it on this ! Vampire. Blood stolen in excess of this Vampire's blood capacity is ! burned. Stolen blood can be used to heal immediately. (8.3) d. Paralyze. Sends the opposing Vampire to Torpor, tapped. Mark the Vampire to show that it has been paralyzed. (22.1) 6. Check for Vampires going to Torpor or Minions or Retainers being burned. ! a. If a Vampire cannot pay for all aggravated damage (aggravated ! damage > blood) then it is burned without going to torpor. (21) b. Vampires which have taken at least one point of aggravated damage but were not burned are placed in Torpor. (21) c. If a Vampire could not heal all of the damage (damage > blood) then it is placed in Torpor with no blood. (21) d. Allies and Retainers that have lost their last life are burned. (21) 7. If one or both Combatants are no longer Ready, Combat ends. 8. Acting Minion has option to gain additional strikes. (21) 9. Blocking Minion has option to gain additional strikes. (21) 10. Resolve steps 1-7 above for each additional strike that a Minion has. This may mean that step 1 or step 2 may be skipped if the appropriate Minion does not have an additional strike. (21) E. Presses at the End of the round of Combat. (21) [15.1] NOTE: Only Methuselahs with Minions in combat may supply Presses. [TOM] 1. Each round starts without a Press. 2. If a card gives a round a Press, then neither Minion is considered to have used that Press. [TOM] 3. Presses alternate between 'to continue' and 'to end' Combat. a. The first Press in a round is used to continue Combat. b. Any Press used in reply to a Press used to continue Combat is used to end Combat. c. Any Press used in reply to a Press used to end Combat is used to continue Combat. d. Some presses may be used to either continue or end combat, others state that the press is only usable as one of the two. 4. Each Minion may use any number of Presses, as follows: a. The Acting Minion gets the first opportunity to use a Press. [RTR] b. No Minion may use more than one Press in a row. 5. Round Ends. If the last Press used was used to continue Combat, then Combat continues. Repeat Steps A-E. F. Combat Ends. Retainers heal all damage done to them. (20.1) [12.3.1] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ VI. HOW TO WITHDRAW FROM THE GAME (10.1) [18.2] ----------------------------------------- A. Begin your turn with less than a full hand (with an exhausted Library). B. Announce your intention to Withdraw during your Untap Phase. C. Keep all of your pool and blood, and keep all of your Minions out of Combat, until your next Untap Phase. 1. You may spend pool or blood, or have a Minion enter Combat, if you wish, but this will nullify your attempt to withdraw. 2. The attempt fails if you lose even a single pool or blood, even if you later gain enough pool or blood to offset the loss. D. At the start of your next Untap Phase, you withdraw. 1. Remove all of your Cards in play. (11) [9] 2. Gain one Victory point. 3. Keep your Ante (if any). 4. Leave the Game. 5. Your Predator receives no pool and no Victory point when you Withdraw. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (#.#) V:tES Rulebook Section Reference (!#.#) V:tES Corrected Rulebook Section Reference [#.#] Jyhad Pocket Rulebook Section Reference [!#.#] Jyhad Corrected Rulebook Section Reference [LSJ] L. Scott Johnson - Rules Monger [TOM] Tom Wylie - WotC NetRep [RTR] WotC Rules Team Ruling, Errata, Clarification, or Statement [RMc] Rourke McNamara - Author Jyhad Not-So-Quick-Reference 0.2 -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | These opinions are mine and http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | are subject to card text. Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |

L. Scott Johnson

aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes: >>! C. MINION PHASE (6.3) [12.3] >>! ...any time one or more of your Vampires is Ready and has zero >>! blood and is not prevented from hunting, your next Minion Action must >>! be to hunt with one of those Vampires. (6.4) >... and repeat as necessary. That would fall under the "any time" jurisdiction. After the first hunt, if you then have a(nother) Ready Empty Vampire, then your next minion actin must be to hunt with a Ready Empty Vampire. >> 4. Any uncontrolled Vampires with Blood equal or greater than to their >> blood capacity become controlled and move to the Ready area untapped. >5. Any allies in your inactive region are moved to your active region. That happens at the end of the turn, not during the influence phase. VtES(6.3.2) and Jyhad[12.3.1] >> B. Who can attempt to Block (18.1) [13.3.1] >> 1. If (D) then only the target Methuselah's Minions can attempt to block. >> NOTE: If the target Methuselah is also the Acting Methuselah, then no >> Minion may attempt to block. [TOM] >However, you generally cannot direct actions at yourself. As per card text. Only Arson, with the '(D)' mis-ruled reminder symbol, has been perverted to allow this. >> D. If Action was not blocked then the Action is resolved. (6.3.4) >> 1. Pay cost associated with Action. >"pay any cost"... lots of actions don't have costs Pay zero or don't pay if zero - it's all the same. >>NOTE: Action Modifiers may be played only by the Acting Vampire at any time >> in the above sequence as allowed by the card. Any cost for playing the >>! modifier is paid only if the action is successful. (6.3.2.1)... >I'm fairly certain that's an error, but the person who would know for 100% sure >has been unavailable. I'm all ears :-) >> D. How to gain votes >> NOTE: The votes gained need not be cast. [RTR] (reversal) >>! 1. If a Vampire or yours called the Referendum, you gain 1 vote. >Only if you called it by way of a political action card. This would not >apply in the case of Anarch Revolt, for example. Not the way the VtES rules are worded, which is why the outline was changed: 7.Vampire Politics Tallying the Votes: If your vampire called the political action, you automatically receive one vote. >> 6. Check for Vampires going to Torpor or Minions or Retainers being burned. >>! a. If a Vampire cannot pay for all aggravated damage (aggravated >>! damage > blood) then it is burned without going to torpor. (21) >>= blood, actually Not according to the VtES rulebook: 21. Advanced Combat Sequence 3) Check Damage: Aggravated damage shocks a vampire's system so that she cannot heal. If the amount of aggravated damage the vampire takes exceeds the number of blood counters she has, she is burned. >> 8. Acting Minion has option to gain additional strikes. (21) >> 9. Blocking Minion has option to gain additional strikes. (21) >Either minion could have gained additional strikes already, but if a minion >did, he or she may not gain more. What does this mean? The outline is perfect on this point. The ordering is specified by the DTR. The redundancy allowed by Jyhad is not present in the outline (nor VtES). [ quoted text not captured ]

J. Hunter Johnson

In article <452i5m$3...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, Thomas R Wylie <aa...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote: >> 6. Check for Vampires going to Torpor or Minions or Retainers being burned. >>! a. If a Vampire cannot pay for all aggravated damage (aggravated >>! damage > blood) then it is burned without going to torpor. (21) > >>= blood, actually So a vampire with 1 blood gets hit for 1 aggravated damge and is thus burned?!? This is different than what went before, isn't it? (And wrong, too, I hope.) Hunter -- J. Hunter Johnson jhun...@io.com (Illuminati Online) "Never blame the audience. If you blame the audience, not only have you failed, you have failed to learn from your mistakes." -- Carlo Mazzone-Clemente

Chad Ray McDaniel

jhun...@io.com (J. Hunter Johnson) writes: >In article <452i5m$3...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, >Thomas R Wylie <aa...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote: >>> 6. Check for Vampires going to Torpor or Minions or Retainers being burned. >>>! a. If a Vampire cannot pay for all aggravated damage (aggravated >>>! damage > blood) then it is burned without going to torpor. (21) >> >>>= blood, actually >So a vampire with 1 blood gets hit for 1 aggravated damge and is thus burned?!? >This is different than what went before, isn't it? (And wrong, too, I hope.) >Hunter yes, it's different, but no it isn't wrong. The rule that Tom is refering to is a change in Vampire: the Eternal Struggle. In the new rules you loose blood equal to the amount of agro you take & if you take agro at zero blood then you're burnt (the vampire, that is.) -- -chad

Algustas

[ quoted text not captured ] Hi Chad, Are you sure the vampire would be burned in this example? If it had one blood wouldn't it loose that blood and go to torpor? Now if it didn't have any blood and took a point of aggrevated damage it would be burned.... Algustas *****It is not right to glory in the slain.***** Homer, the Odyssey of Homer

J. Hunter Johnson

In article <4538rg$d...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>, L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote: >aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes: >>[Scott wrote:] >>> 8. Acting Minion has option to gain additional strikes. (21) >>> 9. Blocking Minion has option to gain additional strikes. (21) > >>Either minion could have gained additional strikes already, but if a minion >>did, he or she may not gain more. > >What does this mean? The outline is perfect on this point. >The ordering is specified by the DTR. >The redundancy allowed by Jyhad is not present in the outline (nor VtES). For instance, if VampireA played superior Acrobatics during the strike phase, VampireA couldn't gain additioanl strikes with another card now. [ quoted text not captured ]

L. Scott Johnson

jhun...@io.com (J. Hunter Johnson) writes: >In article <4538rg$d...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>, >L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote: >>aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes: >>>[Scott wrote:] >>>> 8. Acting Minion has option to gain additional strikes. (21) >>>> 9. Blocking Minion has option to gain additional strikes. (21) >> >>>Either minion could have gained additional strikes already, but if a minion >>>did, he or she may not gain more. >> >>What does this mean? The outline is perfect on this point. >>The ordering is specified by the DTR. >>The redundancy allowed by Jyhad is not present in the outline (nor VtES). >For instance, if VampireA played superior Acrobatics during the strike >phase, VampireA couldn't gain additioanl strikes with another card now. Ah. Well, the perception may be other than the outline (similar to gaining presses during the strike step), but it is within the structure of the rules. Sure, the rules could be interpretted either way to no change in game play, but that's hardly a reason to go convoluting the outline. Outlines are by nature supposed to be clarifying, not cumbersome. VtES: 21. Advanced Combat Sequence 4) Perform additional strikes Additional strikes are announced and performed only after the initial strikes in the round are completed. Thus, you "will gain an additional strike" by playing sup. Acrobatics as your strike (dodge), but the additional strike won't *be* gained until the "gain additional strikes" step in the outline. Similarly, you may gain a future Press (optional) with any number of strike cards (Bats, Grapple, VSpeed, etc.), but the Press won't *be* gained until the Press stage, judging by the lack of "correction" from Tom on that point. [ quoted text not captured ]

Thomas R Wylie

L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote: >>>! C. MINION PHASE (6.3) [12.3] >>>! ...any time one or more of your Vampires is Ready and has zero >>>! blood and is not prevented from hunting, your next Minion Action must >>>! be to hunt with one of those Vampires. (6.4) >>... and repeat as necessary. >That would fall under the "any time" jurisdiction. Yes, but it would still be helpful to clarify. When in doubt, don't assume that the reader will read the line more than once. >>> 4. Any uncontrolled Vampires with Blood equal or greater than to their >>> blood capacity become controlled and move to the Ready area untapped. >>5. Any allies in your inactive region are moved to your active region. >That happens at the end of the turn, not during the influence phase. >VtES(6.3.2) and Jyhad[12.3.1] Grr. I actually looked that up, but forgot to remove the "correction". >>> B. Who can attempt to Block (18.1) [13.3.1] >>> 1. If (D) then only the target Methuselah's Minions can attempt to block >>> NOTE: If the target Methuselah is also the Acting Methuselah, then no >>> Minion may attempt to block. [TOM] >>However, you generally cannot direct actions at yourself. >As per card text. Only Arson, with the '(D)' mis-ruled reminder symbol, has >been perverted to allow this. "misruled reminder symbol"? You argue that Blood Bond should have the D symbol as errata, but think that Arson doesn't need it? How exactly does that work? "perverted" is also a really annoying choice of words. Some cards break the rules (I'm guessing you're thinking of Rampage here). Deal with it. >>> NOTE: The votes gained need not be cast. [RTR] (reversal) >>>! 1. If a Vampire or yours called the Referendum, you gain 1 vote. >>Only if you called it by way of a political action card. This would not >>apply in the case of Anarch Revolt, for example. >Not the way the VtES rules are worded... Oh, that's right. Grr. I think I already established that's an oops, but should check again. >>> 6. Check for Vampires going to Torpor or Minions or Retainers being burned. >>>! a. If a Vampire cannot pay for all aggravated damage (aggravated >>>! damage > blood) then it is burned without going to torpor. (21) >>>= blood, actually >Not according to the VtES rulebook:... *slaps forehead* duh. I was thinking of the change from needing B + 2 damage to burn the vamp, to needing B + 1. >>> 8. Acting Minion has option to gain additional strikes. (21) >>> 9. Blocking Minion has option to gain additional strikes. (21) > >>Either minion could have gained additional strikes already, but if a minion >>did, he or she may not gain more. > >What does this mean? The outline is perfect on this point. >The ordering is specified by the DTR. >The redundancy allowed by Jyhad is not present in the outline (nor VtES). It means that as I read the outline, this is the first chance the minion has to play additional strikes, which is not correct. They could have been played earlier (e.g., Acrobatics). Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.