Weapons, hand strikes, and Basilia

I was wondering what weapons (if any) count as hand strikes for vamps like Basilia or Thetmes, who do aggravated hand damage. If Thetmes uses Bang Nakh, does he do agg? If Basilia uses Brass Knuckles, does she? -ru

I actually have a similar response but broader in the sense, how do you determine what adds to the strength of a vamp and what adds to hand damage. In the case of strikes it ennumerated on the cards, but not with other cards like torn signpost and in particular Ritual Challenge which no one can agree how that should work and then cards like vamps that have 2 hand damage(ie now +1 hand damage). Vince

[ quoted text not captured ] No. * Hand Strike: any non-ranged, non-weapon strike that deals damage based on the striking minion's hand damage, or any minion's non-ranged damage-dealing innate strike. [LSJ 970224] No weapons count as hand strikes for any minion, Basilia or otherwise. When striking with a weapon, you are not striking with hands - it is a weapon strike, not a hand strike. -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

"Vince Johnson" <john...@tcnj.edu> wrote: > I actually have a similar response but broader in the sense, how do you > determine what adds to the strength of a vamp and what adds to hand damage. All additions are made to strength. Nothing adds to hand damage. Hand damage is damage done by a hand strike. It is based on strength (so adding to strength will increase the amount of damage done by the hand strike). > In the case of strikes it ennumerated on the cards, but not with other cards > like torn signpost and in particular Ritual Challenge which no one can agree > how that should work and then cards like vamps that have 2 hand damage(ie > now +1 hand damage). Torn Signpost sets a vampire's base strength to 2 (or 3). Ritual Challenge adds one to a Gangrel's strength. All vampires that have text of "+X hand damage" mean "strength+X". [ quoted text not captured ]

"Andrew Hartsell" <ahar...@dtservices.com> wrote: >I was wondering what weapons (if any) count as hand strikes for vamps like >Basilia or Thetmes, who do aggravated hand damage. If Thetmes uses Bang >Nakh, does he do agg? If Basilia uses Brass Knuckles, does she? None of them count as hand strikes. If you are using a weapon then it is a weapon strike. Some weapons base the amount of damage they do on a minion's base hand damage (their "strength"), but when the weapon's bonus is used, and effects that are associated with "Hand Damage" are ignored, as the damage is "Weapon Damage". Similarly, if Immortal Grapple is played, the phrase hand strikes only means that a weapon may _not_ be used, even if the damage it inflicts is based on hand damage, it does not count as a "Hand Strike". Regards, R. David Zopf guenh...@mindspring.com Atom Weaver and V:EKN Prince of Charlotte, NC

"Vince Johnson" <john...@tcnj.edu> wrote: >I actually have a similar response but broader in the sense, how do you >determine what adds to the strength of a vamp and what adds to hand damage. The term "strength" on this newsgroup is used as a tool towards understanding how hand damage interacts with weapons that are based on hand damage, and damage modifiers to hand strikes. >In the case of strikes it ennumerated on the cards, but not with other cards >like torn signpost and in particular Ritual Challenge which no one can agree >how that should work and then cards like vamps that have 2 hand damage(ie >now +1 hand damage). To continue an example from the other thread, imagine Basilia has a Ritual Challenge, Depravity, and has played a inf. torn signpost in the current imaginary combat. She is equipped with a Bastard Sword. When it comes time to select her strike she may: 1. Select "Hand Strike" This is a strike that deals hand damage (aka strength) plus any effects associated with a "Hand Strike". Thus Basilia has 2 hand damage (base from Torn Signpost) +1 hand damage (from Ritual Challenge) +1 hand damage (from Depravity) for a total strike of 4 hand damage. This damage is from a Hand Strike, and is thus aggravated (by Basilia's special). 2. Select Bastard Sword, and strike with a "Melee Weapon Strike". 2 hand damage (base from Torn Signpost) +1 hand damage (from Ritual Challenge) +1 hand damage (from Depravity) +1 damage (from the Bastard Sword) for a total strike of 5 damage. This is not considered a "Hand Strike" and it is not considered "Hand Damage". It is a "Melee Weapons Strike" and is considered "Melee Weapon Damage", for all intents and purposes. For reference purposes, Basilia's "Strength" in both of these strikes is 4. (Those modifiers that affect her inherent "strike with hands" modify her "Strength") 3. Select "Undead Strength" at inferior (+1 hand damage to hand or melee weapon strike) and specify "Hand Strike" 2 hand damage (base from Torn Signpost) +1 hand damage (from Ritual Challenge) +1 hand damage (from Depravity) +1 hand damage (from Undead Strength) This is a "Hand Strike" for 5 aggravated damage. Basilia's "Strength" is 5. 4. Select "Undead Strength" at inferior (+1 hand damage to hand or melee weapon strike) and specify "Melee Weapon Strike" with the Bastard Sword. 2 hand damage (base from Torn Signpost) +1 hand damage (from Ritual Challenge) +1 hand damage (from Depravity) +1 damage (from the Bastard Sword) +1 damage (from the Undead Strength) This is a "Melee Weapon Strike" for 6 damage. Basilia's "Strength" for this strike is 5. Hope this helps... [ quoted text not captured ]

On Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:44:55 GMT, vte...@wizards.com (LSJ) said: LSJ> "Andrew Hartsell" <ahar...@dtservices.com> wrote: >> I was wondering what weapons (if any) count as hand strikes for vamps like >> Basilia or Thetmes, who do aggravated hand damage. If Thetmes uses Bang >> Nakh, does he do agg? If Basilia uses Brass Knuckles, does she? LSJ> No. LSJ> * Hand Strike: any non-ranged, non-weapon strike that deals damage based LSJ> on the striking minion's hand damage, or any minion's non-ranged LSJ> damage-dealing innate strike. [LSJ 970224] LSJ> No weapons count as hand strikes for any minion, Basilia or LSJ> otherwise. When striking with a weapon, you are not striking LSJ> with hands - it is a weapon strike, not a hand strike. Just to double check... isn't Scorpion Sting considered a hand strike nowadays? I.e. Basilia with SS does 2 non-dodgeable aggravated damage? I seem to recall that SS was ruled non-hand strike at one point, but then that was changed to the above rule. //Petri

Petri Wessman <or...@termiitti.akumiitti.fi> wrote: > On Fri, 12 Feb 1999 19:44:55 GMT, vte...@wizards.com (LSJ) said: > LSJ> * Hand Strike: any non-ranged, non-weapon strike that deals damage based > LSJ> on the striking minion's hand damage, or any minion's non-ranged > LSJ> damage-dealing innate strike. [LSJ 970224] > > LSJ> No weapons count as hand strikes for any minion, Basilia or > LSJ> otherwise. When striking with a weapon, you are not striking > LSJ> with hands - it is a weapon strike, not a hand strike. > > Just to double check... isn't Scorpion Sting considered a hand strike > nowadays? I.e. Basilia with SS does 2 non-dodgeable aggravated damage? Scorpion Sting is a non-ranged, non-weapon strike that deals damage based on the striking minion's hand damage. Therefore, it is a hand strike, by the text you quote. > I seem to recall that SS was ruled non-hand strike at one point, but > then that was changed to the above rule. Yes. The old idea was that card-strikes had to say "use you hands..." to be hand strikes. That idea was overturned on RT review. [ quoted text not captured ]