Trivia Question From Chat

My answer to the question "Which vampire is the youngest to have six Disciplines (there are three, pick any one)?" was "Ezmerelda hit by Violet Tremain's special 10 times." Doesn't have to be Ezmerelda, of course... any vamp with 6 disciplines will work. Mind of a Child works in this case, too. Though it's kind of a weak example because MoaC's primary effect is inability to play discipline cards. Alternately, the answer could be Smudge the Ignored equipped with Drum of Xipe Totec, Eye of Hazimel, Veneficorum Artum Sanguis, Sargon Fragment, and Changeling Skin Mask. Even if you consider the parenthetical text as part of the question, "there are three", I would note that it doesn't say "there are ONLY three." I feel ripped off. :) -Matt

"Mongrel Matt Hirsch" <mon...@hotpop.com> wrote in message news:683c6519.0405...@posting.google.com... > My answer to the question "Which vampire is the youngest to have six > Disciplines (there are three, pick any one)?" was "Ezmerelda hit by > Violet Tremain's special 10 times." Doesn't have to be Ezmerelda, of > course... any vamp with 6 disciplines will work. My answer was Huitzilopochtli... thinking the youngest to have six *superiors*. ;-) I guess they meant "youngest vampire printed with six disciplines", but that wasn't quite spelled out, was it? heh. Josh ah, huitzilopochtli... you were always my favorite, huitzilopochtli...

On Wed, 19 May 2004 11:38:18 -0400, "Joshua Duffin" <duff...@bls.gov> scrawled: >My answer was Huitzilopochtli... thinking the youngest to have six >*superiors*. ;-) > >I guess they meant "youngest vampire printed with six disciplines", but >that wasn't quite spelled out, was it? heh. i went with Marcus, with a quick follow up of [adv]....thinking, as you did, they meant superior disciplines..... stupid quizzes. salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm (replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email) "I like to play the field"-LSJ

> Alternately, the answer could be Smudge the Ignored equipped with > Drum of Xipe Totec, Eye of Hazimel, Veneficorum Artum Sanguis, Sargon > Fragment, and Changeling Skin Mask. Wow, you realize, of course, that after at least 3 rounds Igo The Hungry with all of that equipment plus the Seal of Veddartha would have 10 disciplines! 8 at superior if you wait another round.

How about the biggest bleed unassisted by other cards in play? (Yong Sun with someone having an infinite number of burned vampires). First, are burned vampires in play or not? If they're not in play, how can they count for Yong Sun's bleed? Second, how can you have an infinite number of burned vampires? First how could you burn that many with a 90 card deck, and second, how could these players shuffle, unassisted, an infinite crypt, as per tournament rules? ~SV

vermillian expounded: [ quoted text not captured ] Infinite burning is easy with permanents.

vermillian wrote: > How about the biggest bleed unassisted by other cards in play? > > (Yong Sun with someone having an infinite number of burned vampires). > > First, are burned vampires in play or not? No, they aren't. > If they're not in play, how > can they count for Yong Sun's bleed? Same way cards out of play can be affected by, eg, Honor the Elders, Le Din Tho, etc. > Second, how can you have an infinite number of burned vampires? First > how could you burn that many with a 90 card deck, Merged Yong Sun can burn the top vampire of the crypt without a card, so there you go. > and second, how > could these players shuffle, unassisted, an infinite crypt, as per > tournament rules? They can easily do so in an infinite amount of time. Note that it would also require an infinite amount of time to burn each vampire, so shuffling shouldn't be a problem. --Colin McGuigan

> > and second, how > > could these players shuffle, unassisted, an infinite crypt, as per > > tournament rules? > > They can easily do so in an infinite amount of time. Note that it would > also require an infinite amount of time to burn each vampire, so > shuffling shouldn't be a problem. > You don't need to shuffle an infinite Crypt. You need only cut it.

Gregory Stuart Pettigrew expounded: [ quoted text not captured ] Nice but sadly not true unless you have an infinite number of each vampire in it. If you have an infinite number of vampire A,5 of B and 1 of C then you certainly need to shuffle.

> Nice but sadly not true unless you have an infinite number of each > vampire in it. If you have an infinite number of vampire A,5 of B and 1 > of C then you certainly need to shuffle. > Not true. The probability of drawing a vampire other than A is zero. Go down an infinite number of cards from the top, cut the deck, and your draw will go with the probabilities.

vermil...@yahoo.com (vermillian) wrote in message news:<f987c6cd.04052...@posting.google.com>... > How about the biggest bleed unassisted by other cards in play? > > (Yong Sun with someone having an infinite number of burned vampires). > Second, how can you have an infinite number of burned vampires? First > how could you burn that many with a 90 card deck, and second, how > could these players shuffle, unassisted, an infinite crypt, as per > tournament rules? > > ~SV You can have an infinite number of burned vampires when the question asks for a theoretical upper limit, when no such limit exists. The constraints of 90-card deck limits and/or tournament shuffling rules weren't actually relevant to the question as originally posed. The original question was simply "What is the largest bleed amount a vampire can bleed in one action with no other cards in play (on him or anywhere else in play)?" There was no stipulation about 'in a sanctioned tournament' or anything similar. So the answer is 'infinite (using Yong-Sun [adv] with however many vampires in the appropriate ash heap as needed, since those burnt vampires are not cards in play.)' -John Flournoy

"John Flournoy" <flou...@rcn.com> wrote in message news:57327a82.04052...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Mathematically speaking, a better answer might have been "finite but unlimited," since an infinite number of cards in the crypt is impossible. - Pat

> Mathematically speaking, a better answer might have been "finite but > unlimited," since an infinite number of cards in the crypt is impossible. Well, mathematically speaking, you can certainly have an infinitely large crypt. I'm wondering though, if we leave Yon Sung out, what *is* the maximum amount, unassisted by cards in play? I'm leaning towards Spiridonas; like this: Govern (+2) Command of the Beast (+1) Conditioning (+3) His Special burn the remaining 7 blood (+5) for a total of 12.

Pat Lusk wrote: > Mathematically speaking, a better answer might have been "finite but > unlimited," since an infinite number of cards in the crypt is impossible. Mathematically speaking, the phrase you are looking for is "the limit of x as x approaches infinity". But an infinite number of crypt cards is not impossible in something like, say, Jyhad Online, assuming that it has been or can be programmed for the task. --Colin McGuigan

>> You don't need to shuffle an infinite Crypt. You need only cut it. > > Nice but sadly not true unless you have an infinite number of each > vampire in it. If you have an infinite number of vampire A,5 of B and 1 > of C then you certainly need to shuffle. I'm not sure it's true even if you have an infinite number of vampires. For instance, if all instances happen to be sorted by capacity and then alphabetically (an infinite number of each vampire, of course), you'd have to shuffle or you'd "know" which vampire you'd get. Why am I even responding? Ankur

Colin McGuigan <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote in message news:<E--dnYtDeLI...@speakeasy.net>... > vermillian wrote: > > How about the biggest bleed unassisted by other cards in play? > > > > (Yong Sun with someone having an infinite number of burned vampires). > > > > First, are burned vampires in play or not? > > No, they aren't. > > > If they're not in play, how > > can they count for Yong Sun's bleed? > > Same way cards out of play can be affected by, eg, Honor the Elders, Le > Din Tho, etc. > > > Second, how can you have an infinite number of burned vampires? First > > how could you burn that many with a 90 card deck, > > Merged Yong Sun can burn the top vampire of the crypt without a card, so > there you go. MERGED so there's ANOTHER card in play, against LSJ's requirement. > > and second, how > > could these players shuffle, unassisted, an infinite crypt, as per > > tournament rules? > > They can easily do so in an infinite amount of time. Note that it would > also require an infinite amount of time to burn each vampire, so > shuffling shouldn't be a problem. But a tournament is two hours long. ~SV

vermillian wrote: > MERGED so there's ANOTHER card in play, against LSJ's requirement. A merged vampire is one "card in play". The other card is not in play. Unless you're going to start suggesting that, eg, Remover only taps one of the two cards... > But a tournament is two hours long. Each _round_ may be two hours long by default, but there's no rule saying it has to be. Tourney rounds can be 2 hours, 2 hours and then a sudden death, 3 hours, 1 hour, or no time limit at all. --Colin McGuigan

On 22 May 2004 13:26:43 -0700, vermil...@yahoo.com (vermillian) scrawled: >Colin McGuigan <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote in message news:<E--dnYtDeLI...@speakeasy.net>... [snip] >> They can easily do so in an infinite amount of time. Note that it would >> also require an infinite amount of time to burn each vampire, so >> shuffling shouldn't be a problem. > >But a tournament is two hours long. actually, each round has a minimum of 2 hours. they are allowed to be longer. i don't see why they couldn't be infinitely long (well, aside from all the problems with infinity. ;) also, i think pre-game shuffling is not counted for the round time limit, so _that_ instance of infinity can be ignored too. [ quoted text not captured ]

Colin McGuigan <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote in message news:<HgudnT98wqg...@speakeasy.net>... > But an infinite number of crypt cards is not impossible in something > like, say, Jyhad Online, assuming that it has been or can be programmed > for the task. You couldn't really have an infinite crypt modelled in a computer--you'd need infinite memory--but you could *simulate* drawing from/searching an infinite crypt fairly easily. Just select randomly from a decklist with the exact ratio of card to card as the infinite deck would have, and never change the ratios.

Emmit Svenson wrote: > You couldn't really have an infinite crypt modelled in a > computer--you'd need infinite memory--but you could *simulate* drawing > from/searching an infinite crypt fairly easily. Just select randomly > from a decklist with the exact ratio of card to card as the infinite > deck would have, and never change the ratios. Yes. That's what I said. =P --Colin McGuigan

On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:52:33 -0500, Colin McGuigan <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> scrawled: [ quoted text not captured ] whuh? when did that sneak through? last i heard, rounds were 2hr minimum, no maximum, but a 2hr plus sudden death was not a 'time limit'. it's a 'time limit and then event', and so no good for sanctioned tournies. [ quoted text not captured ]

salem wrote: > On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:52:33 -0500, Colin McGuigan >>Each _round_ may be two hours long by default, but there's no rule >>saying it has to be. Tourney rounds can be 2 hours, 2 hours and then a >>sudden death, 3 hours, 1 hour, or no time limit at all. > > whuh? when did that sneak through? last i heard, rounds were 2hr > minimum, no maximum, but a 2hr plus sudden death was not a 'time > limit'. it's a 'time limit and then event', and so no good for > sanctioned tournies. Correct. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

salem wrote: > whuh? when did that sneak through? last i heard, rounds were 2hr > minimum, no maximum, but a 2hr plus sudden death was not a 'time > limit'. it's a 'time limit and then event', and so no good for > sanctioned tournies. Don't bother me with your "rules" and "correctness". --Colin McGuigan

On Mon, 24 May 2004 08:32:50 -0500, Colin McGuigan <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> scrawled: >salem wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] sorry, my bad. maybe i should run a tournament where the rounds are min 2 hrs, then we order pizza, and the round ends when the pizza arrives. :) you'd be invited, of course! [ quoted text not captured ]

salem wrote: > sorry, my bad. maybe i should run a tournament where the rounds are > min 2 hrs, then we order pizza, and the round ends when the pizza > arrives. :) > you'd be invited, of course! Before or after you order the pizza? --Colin McGuigan

On Mon, 24 May 2004 18:51:48 -0500, Colin McGuigan <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> scrawled: >salem wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] depends, do you want to play vtes _as well as_ eat pizza, or just eat pizza? ;) [ quoted text not captured ]

salem wrote: > depends, do you want to play vtes _as well as_ eat pizza, or just eat > pizza? ;) Why, both, of course. (Now there's a thought. Play jyhad, while having plenty of pizzas nearby. But, you can only take a bite of pizza after one of your vampire hunts successfully...) --Colin McGuigan

"vermillian" <vermil...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:f987c6cd.04052...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] You can't have an infinite number of vampires. The answer is of course the number of vampires printed, subtract 12 for your crypt. that assumes that your opponent has traded for every vampire in existance, less the 12 you need to play. and you have burned ALL of his crypt. that is certainly not infinate, just a really big number. -- The Nosferatu Stuff

"Ankur Gupta" <agu...@cs.duke.edu> wrote in message news:Pine.GSO.4.60.04...@peso.cs.duke.edu... [ quoted text not captured ] Has anyone considered that is player A has an infinite number of vampires they obviously have cornered the vampire market and everyone else will be playing with zero, thus illegal decks, rendering the whole thing moot. Raille

Raille wrote: > Has anyone considered that is player A has an infinite number of vampires > they obviously have cornered the vampire market and everyone else will be > playing with zero, thus illegal decks, rendering the whole thing moot. Jesus, you all have a poor grasp of infinity. If you can get beyond the fact that an infinite number of vampires in a physical crypt would be an infinite amount of mass that would destroy the universe as we understand physical laws, you should be able to deal with everything else. If one person can have an infinite number of vampires, two people can have an infinite number of vampires. Hell, an infinite number of people can have an infinite number of vampires. --Colin McGuigan

The Nosferatu Stuff expounded: [ quoted text not captured ] We play with proxies :P

On Tue, 25 May 2004 08:48:51 -0500, Colin McGuigan <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> scrawled: >salem wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] perhaps each person 'ante's one slice of pizza at the start of the game.....so when you oust someone, it's snack time. and for the greedy people, there's Last Stand. you don't want to know what happens when you play Gambit Accepted, especially at the end of the game if you are not ousted. [ quoted text not captured ]

salem wrote: > perhaps each person 'ante's one slice of pizza at the start of the > game.....so when you oust someone, it's snack time. and for the greedy > people, there's Last Stand. > > you don't want to know what happens when you play Gambit Accepted, > especially at the end of the game if you are not ousted. Ok. So, how about if I buy the pizza, and you buy my plane ticket? Hell, I'll buy _two_ pizzas! --Colin McGuigan

On Tue, 25 May 2004 18:53:59 -0500, Colin McGuigan <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> scrawled: >salem wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] that'd have to be some mighty fine pizza! [ quoted text not captured ]

salem wrote: > that'd have to be some mighty fine pizza! We're talking $20 pizzas! And that's not in Canadian dollars, either! --Colin McGuigan

On Wed, 26 May 2004 06:12:42 -0500, Colin McGuigan <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> scrawled: >salem wrote: >> that'd have to be some mighty fine pizza! > >We're talking $20 pizzas! And that's not in Canadian dollars, either! is it australian dollars? i think they buy about 72 US cents at the moment.. but, really, if i could afford to fly you here, i would have taken up the lasombra's offer of accomodation for the atlanta qualifier and flown myself over there instead. :) but i'm working on it! although i keep buying things....like a new HDD. my first ever new one. none of this hand-me-down-because-it-goes-'clunk'-occasionally crap. [ quoted text not captured ]

>> For instance, if all instances happen to be sorted by capacity and then >> alphabetically (an infinite number of each vampire, of course), you'd have >> to shuffle or you'd "know" which vampire you'd get. >> >> Why am I even responding? > > Has anyone considered that is player A has an infinite number of vampires > they obviously have cornered the vampire market and everyone else will be > playing with zero, thus illegal decks, rendering the whole thing moot. Unless we assume that White Wolf has printed an infinite number of vampires, you're right. So I suppose the truly correct answer is that the maximum number of vampires possible is X, where X is the number of vampires which have been printed. Ever. Ankur

salem wrote: > On Wed, 26 May 2004 06:12:42 -0500, Colin McGuigan > <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> scrawled: > > >>salem wrote: >> >>>that'd have to be some mighty fine pizza! >> >>We're talking $20 pizzas! And that's not in Canadian dollars, either! > > > is it australian dollars? i think they buy about 72 US cents at the > moment.. > > but, really, if i could afford to fly you here, i would have taken up > the lasombra's offer of accomodation for the atlanta qualifier and > flown myself over there instead. :) If you can stand a lack of pressure, food, oxygen, and heat, just pack yourself into a crate and send yourself over Fedex. Or whatever you crazy Aussies have. --Colin McGuigan

"Izaak" <i.hav...@SPAMklg.nl> wrote in message news:c8m49p$4gp$1...@reader11.wxs.nl... > > Mathematically speaking, a better answer might have been "finite but > > unlimited," since an infinite number of cards in the crypt is > impossible. > > Well, mathematically speaking, you can certainly have an infinitely > large crypt. > Well consider that with an infinitelt large crypt Yong sun spends an infinite number of turns burning vampires and never gets to actually bleed. However since the cards are material and not mathematical, there is a finite limit to the bleed, and that limit is the number of cards printed. Raille

"Raille" <rai...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:3fb531dbe94c9429...@news.teranews.com... > > "Izaak" <i.hav...@SPAMklg.nl> wrote in message > news:c8m49p$4gp$1...@reader11.wxs.nl... > > > Mathematically speaking, a better answer might have been "finite but > > > unlimited," since an infinite number of cards in the crypt is > > impossible. > > > > Well, mathematically speaking, you can certainly have an infinitely > > large crypt. > > > > Well consider that with an infinitelt large crypt Yong sun spends an > infinite number of turns burning vampires and never gets to actually bleed. > Nah, he equipped a Rutor's Hand as his first action, so he gets to both burn & bleed every turn. ;) - Pat

On Wed, 26 May 2004 09:16:44 -0400, Ankur Gupta <agu...@cs.duke.edu> scrawled: [ quoted text not captured ] nah, it'd be less than that. grouping rule and all. plus you'd need 12 in your crypt. and the _other_ players (other than you and your prey) would need 12 in theirs', too. [ quoted text not captured ]