Art Slam

Okay, Now that we've opened Bloodlines I'm sure there are plenty of people that either wish to praise or condemn the Artwork. As for Christopher Shy, I just realized what it is about his portraits that bother me: 1. All models must be hanging from the gallows, as nearly EVERY neck he draws seems stretched. 2. Appears to use the same person for different cards. Compare Reg Driscoll and Jorge De La Muerte. 3. Much like the neck thing, it almost appears as if Shy is painting the face on a seperate canvas then pasting them onto a body. 4. Note that Shy seems unable to draw a proportionate or defined torso. 5. Eyes. I never knew that all Vampires had glass eyes. Explains a lot really.. To his credit, Shy's artwork contains a very cool etherial quality. Probably would appreciate it more if he would slow down the art factory and produce "cleaner" pieces. If there's any justice, Becky Cloonan should get assigned to do all the Malkavian portraits for The Camarilla set. BernieTime Bern...@yahoo.com

> Now that we've opened Bloodlines I'm sure there are plenty of people that > either wish to praise or condemn the Artwork. I agree with all the points about Chistopher Shy. A lot of people are saying his stuff is great, but I am getting a bit tired of the same sort of blurred grey picture over and over again. Bearing in mind he has done a clear 75% of the vampire artwork in this set, he could have tried to do something a bit different. When he does do something unusual - e.g. Sargon (5 cp Baali)who is noticeable since he is drawn in PROFILE - the results stand out. However, Lawrence Snelly doesn't get away that easily... Julia Prima 7 cp Kiasyd aus DOM OBT myt Sabbat - Julia can bleed any methusula as a D action. Once each action, Julia can burn 1 blood to get +1 bleed. Cold Iron Vunerability. Very nice, but the picture looks IDENTICAL TO UMA THURMAN!!! The library cards, on the other hand, are excellently drawn. Very pleasing, and some in particular stand out - Trackers Mark (art by Mark Nelson), Choir (Snelly again!), and Shadow Feint (Karen Yanner) stick in my mind. So on the whole, Huzzah for the artists! If it weren't for their great works, we would be playing "DogPoo: The Eternal Struggle" DH

> I agree with all the points about Chistopher Shy. A lot of people are > saying his stuff is great, but I am getting a bit tired of the same > sort of blurred grey picture over and over again. Bearing in mind he > has done a clear 75% of the vampire artwork in this set, Noooooo!!!!!!! Why? Why is Christopher Shy doing *so much* of the artwork? I'm getting so sick and tired of seeing the exact same picture, more or less, on every one of his cards. It's almost to the point that I'm loathe to buy any more cards because his artwork repulses me that much. I was so hoping there would be more variance with regards the the number of artists that would be providing their work for this set. I guess that hope was misplaced. LSJ, Steve, anyone... Why is Shy providing the majority of pieces used for the cards? Why can't you get more people to provide art? Sorrow --- Through the screams of falling steel. By the light of flares and wisdom. All the doubts I could not face. All this time I wanted more. With a line I'll mark the past as a symbol of beginning. To the gods whose names we've lost and the names who gave in vain.

>Noooooo!!!!!!! >Why? Why is Christopher Shy doing *so much* of the artwork? I'm >getting so sick and tired of seeing the exact same picture, more or less, >on every one of his cards. It's almost to the point that I'm loathe to buy >any more cards because his artwork repulses me that much. I was so >hoping there would be more variance with regards the the number of >artists that would be providing their work for this set. I guess that hope >was misplaced. > >LSJ, Steve, anyone... Why is Shy providing the majority of pieces used >for the cards? Why can't you get more people to provide art? > While I myself haven't seen any Bloodlines cards at all (probably in a couple of days), I do share these sentiments with Sorrow. I'd even feel this way if Shy's artwork was great. One artist providing so much artwork for one set makes the set a tad bit dull and repetative. I understand the money issue, but still a dull product is even worse I guess (from a players' point of view that is). Now in defense I also have to say that I would indeed play this game if it were DogPoo: the eternal struggle, and personaly I don't care for artwork, but I understand the views, sentiments and hopes that the players (or even collectors) who do care about artwork might have. Just my thoughts, Tim

> While I myself haven't seen any Bloodlines cards at all (probably in a > couple of days), I do share these sentiments with Sorrow. I'd even feel > this way if Shy's artwork was great. One artist providing so much artwork > for one set makes the set a tad bit dull and repetative. If it were just one set, it wouldn't be all *that* bad. But his artwork features prominantly in Sabbat War and Final Nights. And now Bloodlines. It's getting so old. And it doesn't help that his art is horrible, IMO. > is). Now in defense I also have to say that I would indeed play this game if > it were DogPoo: the eternal struggle, and personaly I don't care for artwork, > but I understand the views, sentiments and hopes that the players (or even > collectors) who do care about artwork might have. I still play and probably will. However, the odds of me buying more and new cards is going down. I'm just getting really sick of seeing the exact same art on a significant number of the cards. Sorrow --- "Just once I'd like a childhood memory I don't have to repress." - Malcolm

>===== Original Message From "Sorrow" <jcb...@yahoo.com> ===== >> While I myself haven't seen any Bloodlines cards at all (probably in a >> couple of days), I do share these sentiments with Sorrow. I'd even feel >> this way if Shy's artwork was great. One artist providing so much artwork >> for one set makes the set a tad bit dull and repetative. > >If it were just one set, it wouldn't be all *that* bad. But his artwork features >prominantly in Sabbat War and Final Nights. And now Bloodlines. It's getting >so old. And it doesn't help that his art is horrible, IMO. Exactly. Point taken! Though I feel even one set is too much. >> is). Now in defense I also have to say that I would indeed play this game if >> it were DogPoo: the eternal struggle, and personaly I don't care for artwork, >> but I understand the views, sentiments and hopes that the players (or even >> collectors) who do care about artwork might have. >I still play and probably will. However, the odds of me buying more and new >cards is going down. I'm just getting really sick of seeing the exact same art on >a significant number of the cards. That doesn't hold for me, but I know of many players and collectors who will indeed buy less of the game because of the artwork. I agree with getting sick, or better fed up, with the same art on different cards. Though I cannot judge BL at the moment. Tim

In message <3C19...@MailAndNews.com>, Tim Eijpe <tim....@MailAndNews.com> writes: >Now in defense I also have to say that I would indeed play this game if >it were DogPoo: the eternal struggle, and personaly I don't care for >artwork, but I understand the views, sentiments and hopes that the >players (or even collectors) who do care about artwork might have. Whilst I am not terribly bothered by the theme of the art-work, the artwork is a necessary evil. Clear, distinct different artwork is highly useful for being able to keep track of the table - see the reports of when Jyhad was play-tested with purely text cards. Shy's work - whilst very nice in parts - is highly characteristic of him. You can tell a Shy from a mile off, usually, and a number of them do look very, very similar. -- James Coupe When correctly viewed PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D Everything is lewd EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 I could tell you things about Peter Pan 13D7E668C3695D623D5D And the Wizard of Oz, there's a dirty old man

BernieTime wrote: > If there's any justice, Becky Cloonan should get assigned to do all the > Malkavian portraits for The Camarilla set. > Well with (!)Salubri looking as mangaesque as they do on Renewed Vigor and Rayzeel's Song, it's no wonder if they get hunted by the Camarilla... it's just not right in WoD. Hmm, maybe she should do some !Tremere next?

I bought a copy of New York by Night recently and noticed that all the vampire portraits were done by Shy. They sometimes don't resemble the accompanying word-portrait but the graphic style seems to come across better in B&W than it does on a full colour CCG card. I wonder if WW are saving money by using the same art for both RPG and CCG? They've certainly reused art from the Clan Novels but I'm not sure if the policy goes wider than that. Andrew

"hamdamcwa" <dave...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:9e10847c.01120...@posting.google.com... > > Now that we've opened Bloodlines I'm sure there are plenty of people that > > either wish to praise or condemn the Artwork. > > I agree with all the points about Chistopher Shy. A lot of people are > saying his stuff is great, but I am getting a bit tired of the same > sort of blurred grey picture over and over again. Bearing in mind he > has done a clear 75% of the vampire artwork in this set, he could have > tried to do something a bit different. When he does do something > unusual - e.g. Sargon (5 cp Baali)who is noticeable since he is drawn > in PROFILE - the results stand out. Sargon looks cool, as do other vampires drawn by Shy. Mary,Giotto, Matthias or Marconius are beautiful art, and you certainly won't confound them. Compare to the illustration of Calebros the martyr... Please don't say that his characters look all the same, this is not true. Every vampire is drawn in the same type of posture, has the same glow in the eyes. that's because it's Shy's approach at depicting vampires. That's all. I can't believe people are complaining ! imagine that the whole set could have been done by Drew Tucker or Harold Mc Neil !! (or even Amy weber, from Spirit touch fame -ugh) I'm not a big fan of Shy's work but i fail to understand that rant against him. He's a good artist. Actually we don't even know what the card editors ask him to do in the first place ! maybe he has strict directives, say "vampire face must be in the center for easy recognition, and we must see his shoulder...", or whatever... reyda

[ quoted text not captured ] They've also re-used some art in other places. I know some artwork from Children of the Night (Shy's artwork) was used in the card game. Most notably Mercy, Moncada, and maybe Vincent Day. And I do agree that much of Shy's work is good (esp. in Children of the Night). Aisling is actually kinda hot (as opposed to the elderly matron her cartoon version depicts). And Fatima is much prettier than the card art as well. And, while I still haven't seen the Polonia VTES card, I do have to say he looks really cool in Children of the Night. Halcyan 2

berni...@aol.com (BernieTime) wrote in message news:<20011204010237...@mb-fy.aol.com>... > Okay, > > Now that we've opened Bloodlines I'm sure there are plenty of people that > either wish to praise or condemn the Artwork. > > As for Christopher Shy, I just realized what it is about his portraits that > bother me: > > 1. All models must be hanging from the gallows, as nearly EVERY neck he draws > seems stretched. > > 2. Appears to use the same person for different cards. Compare Reg Driscoll and > Jorge De La Muerte. > > 3. Much like the neck thing, it almost appears as if Shy is painting the face > on a seperate canvas then pasting them onto a body. > > 4. Note that Shy seems unable to draw a proportionate or defined torso. > > 5. Eyes. I never knew that all Vampires had glass eyes. Explains a lot really.. > > > To his credit, Shy's artwork contains a very cool etherial quality. > Probably would appreciate it more if he would slow down the art factory > and produce "cleaner" pieces. i really like Shy's concept of the vampires and once again draw people's attention to the way he has used the constraints of the oval portrait box to heighten the effect of looking at old photographs. One of the new Daughters of cacophony is jaw-droppingly gorgeous, real competition for Raven and Joaquina. That's not my view BTW - it is Lady Legbiter's. His other vampires range from interesting to dull, just like real people - but that's variety, isn't it, and so a good thing i'ld have thought? > > If there's any justice, Becky Cloonan should get assigned to do all the > Malkavian portraits for The Camarilla set. Right on, the ones i've seen by her are WONDERFUL - deviant child to the max! > > > BernieTime > Bern...@yahoo.com On a subject raised by Sorrow elsewhere in this thread, and sorry if this is treading on any delicate negotiations, i'ld favour more artists and i'ld PARTICULARLY favour some artistic input by our very own Damnans. He showed me HIS painting of Ur-Shulgi when we met in Paris and, Shy-lover though i am, there is NO comparison IMO. Maybe Damnans is too busy or too expensive and if this has been explored and determined to be so, fair enough ... but if not, couldn't it at least be looked at?

leggy wrote: -- >On a subject raised by Sorrow elsewhere in this thread, and sorry if >this is treading on any delicate negotiations, i'ld favour more >artists -- [snip call for damnans' art, great idea btw!!] I also think that James Coupe has given a very good point in his reply. Different artist provide a better overview on a table. Cards are recognized easier if there is a lot of different art. That is one of the things I like about the signature characters. While not the best art, they surely are easy to distinguish from across table. Now Shy's artwork, I must say that at least 75% of the work he did in FN and SW is very cool. Not pretty but cool nontheless. However we have experienced problems with distincting several vampires from eachother and hence this has resulted in several contestments simply because the vampires were not recognized. Whether this has to do with our collective intelligence or the need for better glasses is besides the point. Like I have stated before I would also be against a set full with Richard Kane Furgesson's art (which simply rocks!!), merely because of the game-problems that may occur. To say nothing about the people who DO dislike Shy's art or collect pretty pictures... Tim

> >The library cards, on the other hand, are excellently drawn. Very >pleasing, and some in particular stand out - Trackers Mark (art by >Mark Nelson), Choir (Snelly again!), and Shadow Feint (Karen Yanner) >stick in my mind. > >So on the whole, Huzzah for the artists! If it weren't for their great >works, we would be playing "DogPoo: The Eternal Struggle" > >DH My only dislike about Choir, is that while recognizing that the art is good it seems misplaced for the Daughters (dontchathink?). Where's all the womens? BernieTime

In article <9uinj3$ciq$1...@neon.noos.net>, Reyda <re...@noos.fr> wrote: >Sargon looks cool, as do other vampires drawn by Shy. Mary,Giotto, Matthias >or Marconius are beautiful art, and you certainly won't confound them. >Compare to the illustration of Calebros the martyr... >Please don't say that his characters look all the same, this is not true. >Every vampire is drawn in the same type of posture, has the same glow in the >eyes. that's because it's Shy's approach at depicting vampires. That's all. >I can't believe people are complaining ! imagine that the whole set could >have been done by Drew Tucker or Harold Mc Neil !! (or even Amy weber, from >Spirit touch fame -ugh) I'm a big supporter of Shy -- but I don't see why he needs to do so damn many of the vampires. To be fair, his BL vampires are significantly less similar to each other than the FN vampires, and there are, thankfully, no abominations like the infamous 'thumb' Moncada. On the other hand, Drew Tucker and Harold Arthur McNeil have done some of my very favorite artwork (Jyhad Flash, Direct Intervention, Smiling Jack). So don't be dissin' on them. Dammit. While I like Amy Weber's stuff in general, I find it's too abstract for proper V:tES. Her MtG stuff is pretty cute though. Becky Clooney is a new favorite. Here's hoping she gets more work. Glad to see Durwin Talon (Relentless Pursuit) back. Glad to see Talon Dunning (The Summoning) isn't. gomi -- Blood, guts, guns, cuts Knives, lives, wives, nuns, sluts

In message <20011204121357...@mb-cu.aol.com>, BernieTime <berni...@aol.com> writes: >My only dislike about Choir, is that while recognizing that the art >is good it seems misplaced for the Daughters (dontchathink?). > >Where's all the womens? Daughters of Cacophony also include blokes. [ quoted text not captured ]

>BernieTime wrote: >> My only dislike about Choir, is that while recognizing that the art >> is good it seems misplaced for the Daughters (dontchathink?). >> >> Where's all the womens? > >They're in the Blood Brother's cards (sanguinus). :-) Would you perhaps be referring to "Unwholesome Bond"?? Looks more like Unwholesome Bondage if you ask me. But then it would be a schlongus card, darn those ultra-rares ;-) Bernie ><Professorial lecture monotone> >This just illustrates that the disciplines are, anyone?, distinct from the >clans ></tone> > > >-- >LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com)

BernieTime wrote: > My only dislike about Choir, is that while recognizing that the art > is good it seems misplaced for the Daughters (dontchathink?). > > Where's all the womens? They're in the Blood Brother's cards (sanguinus). :-) <Professorial lecture monotone> This just illustrates that the disciplines are, anyone?, distinct from the clans </tone> -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

In message <20011204124152...@mb-cu.aol.com>, BernieTime <berni...@aol.com> writes: >>Daughters of Cacophony also include blokes. > >Well, I guess it IS a new millennium. Getting harder to tell the guys from >the dolls nowadays (especially in Singapore, but thats another story) Intentional, surely? [ quoted text not captured ]

><berni...@aol.com> writes: >>My only dislike about Choir, is that while recognizing that the art >>is good it seems misplaced for the Daughters (dontchathink?). >> >>Where's all the womens? > >Daughters of Cacophony also include blokes. > >-- >James Coupe Well, I guess it IS a new millennium. Getting harder to tell the guys from the dolls nowadays (especially in Singapore, but thats another story) Bernie

dave...@hotmail.com (hamdamcwa) wrote in message news:<9e10847c.01120...@posting.google.com>... > > Now that we've opened Bloodlines I'm sure there are plenty of people that > > either wish to praise or condemn the Artwork. Right now I don't care if the artwork was done by Stevie Wonder on crack, I just want the cards to turn up in my local card shops so I can get some. -Please- let it be this week. (Okay, so i lied about the artwork, I paid good money for a few cards last week purely for the pretty alternative artwork to the versions I owned :P ) Simidh

>LSJ, Steve, anyone... Why is Shy providing the majority of pieces used >for the cards? Why can't you get more people to provide art? Long term contract? "He's a ... he's a reverse vampire. They ... they crave the Sun."

go...@panix.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote: >Becky Clooney is a new favorite. Here's hoping she gets more work. Clooney's a guy, and he gets too much work already. But Cloonan, I sure love her art. Not too fond of Blissful Agony (art, love the card) but the manga girls and especially Speak with Spirits are great! >Glad to see Durwin Talon (Relentless Pursuit) back. Glad to see Talon Dunning >(The Summoning) isn't. Talon Dunning did the art for Conscripted Statue. Bleu

In article <WFIhKEDT...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk>, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: >In message <20011204121357...@mb-cu.aol.com>, BernieTime ><berni...@aol.com> writes: >>My only dislike about Choir, is that while recognizing that the art >>is good it seems misplaced for the Daughters (dontchathink?). >> >>Where's all the womens? > >Daughters of Cacophony also include blokes. Actually, they used to. Second edition VtM stated that there were male Daughters, but they were fairly uncommon (U1 perhaps? :) Revised edition states they rounded up all their male members (hmm, that sounds wrong) and killed them off for some inscrutable reason... --------------------------------------------------------------------- Mail: santiago [at] umug [dot] org || Web: http://santiago.umug.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Ceci n'est pas un 'sig block'."

>>Daughters of Cacophony also include blokes. > > Actually, they used to. Second edition VtM stated that there were >male Daughters, but they were fairly uncommon (U1 perhaps? :) Revised >edition states they rounded up all their male members (hmm, that sounds >wrong) and killed them off for some inscrutable reason... Yeah, the Daughters did have a bit of culling. (Please note that contrary to common belief, the male Daughters were never called the Sons of Discord. That was just some net-rumor that caught on). However, some male Daughters (now there's an oxymoron!) did survive, though the only two canon ones thus far are both transexuals... Halcyan 2

> If it were just one set, it wouldn't be all *that* bad. But his artwork features prominantly in Sabbat War and Final Nights. And now Bloodlines. It's getting so old. And it doesn't help that his art is horrible, IMO. > > I still play and probably will. However, the odds of me buying more and new > cards is going down. I'm just getting really sick of seeing the exact same art on a significant number of the cards. > > Sorrow I would also like to see some more variety, especially with the Camarilla edition around the long corner. I would like to give out props to all those concerned on the vampires....I have always loved vampires with built in abilities and it seems that LSJ and others have seen it.....It makes for many more cool play options. Besides I use big counters to cover up the art...once the vampires all start to look the same....Seems like it happens more and more(Hint(LSJ): Look for vampire art variety for the Camarilla edition).

How is Larry `Hey, buddy! Stand over there so I can take a picture! OK, now I'll blur it some and colour it green!' Snelly avoiding the blows here? Personally, I haven't been a big Chris Shy fan, but I think he totally kicked arse with the Daughters of Cacophony. I want to see those vampires in my crypt when I play, and I didn't expect to. Celeste, The Voice of a Secret for one. Whereas Snelly art is ugly......and the worst part is, we know he can do real art. Anneke, Smudge...two of my favourite pictures. But then he discovered digital image manipulation, and is systematically ruining a lot of art. Final Nights Setites, anyone? The Ahrimanes mostly seem OK...just average art, but in the Blood Brothers...he really let himself go again, didn't he. Ech. Ech. Ech. I'd like to see more Steve Prescott (Poker kills me) and Leif Jones stuff, but probably not for vampires in any big way. Becky Cloonan seems a bit hit and miss to me...Chameleon's Colors and The Stranger Among Us are both great, but then The Wildebeest seems a real let down from there. Very clunky. Special mention to William O'Connor for The Call. [ quoted text not captured ]

>Julia Prima > >7 cp Kiasyd > >aus DOM OBT myt > >Sabbat - Julia can bleed any methusula as a D action. Once each >action, Julia can burn 1 blood to get +1 bleed. Cold Iron >Vunerability. > >Very nice, but the picture looks IDENTICAL TO UMA THURMAN!!! You say that like it's a bad thing! Uma's awesome! Let's just hope this doesn't turn out to be another Camille affair though. In any case, now that Uma's a vampire, maybe Christopher Shy should paint a rendition of Ethan (without the facial hair of course). That could make an interesting theme deck...I could make a Gattaca deck! Halcyan 2

>Personally, I haven't been a big Chris Shy fan, but I think he totally >kicked arse with the Daughters of Cacophony. I want to see those >vampires in my crypt when I play, and I didn't expect to. Celeste, The >Voice of a Secret for one. Celeste and Angela are okay. Delilah's really nasty though. >Whereas Snelly art is ugly......and the worst part is, we know he can do >real art. Anneke, Smudge...two of my favourite pictures. But then he >discovered digital image manipulation, and is systematically ruining a >lot of art. Final Nights Setites, anyone? I agree that some of Snelly's classics are his best (Anneke! Smudge!). I do like some of his new digital art (Samat, Sutekh) and I think he did a pretty good job with his Folloewrs of Set. But I do agree that he's overdoing it. >The Ahrimanes mostly seem >OK...just average art, but in the Blood Brothers...he really let himself >go again, didn't he. I think the Ahrimanes are pretty freaky and nasty-looking. Talk about those feral traits! I'm not too impressed with the Blood Brothers either. I'm a little confused with Ilse though. I don't mind a female Blood Brother but since they're more or less clones of each other, is this really possible? (Don't have Guide to the Sabbat). >Becky Cloonan seems a bit hit and miss to me...Chameleon's Colors and >The Stranger Among Us are both great, but then The Wildebeest seems a >real let down from there. Very clunky. > I personally didn't really like Cloonan's artwork. Never been a big fan of Japanimation manga-style art. But even though I don't like it, I do think it should have been included because it adds a great deal of variety. >Special mention to William O'Connor for The Call. Definitely! This picture is simply awesome! A shame you can really only use it for !Malk decks. Also, not that it would fit in a thematic Pop Songs deck. You know, the Backstreet Boys have that one song, "The Call"... Halcyan 2