The Akunanse Letters - Amavi

The Akunanse Letters - Amavi The dead are not under the earth. They are in the fire that is dying; They are in the grasses that weep; They are in the whimpering rocks; They are in the forest; they are in the house. The dead are not dead. -Amavi, Akunanse Amavi Akunanse 8 capacity Presence, Protean, superior Abombwe, superior Animalism, superior Fortitude +1 bleed Laibon Group 4 The Akunanse can pursue many strategies. Amavi is built to bring out the best in our ability to bleed our prey out of the game. With all three of the in-clan skills at superior and a built in +1 bleed, she will be the focus of this first letter and the first deck. As the clan does not possess any bleed disciplines across a wide range of vampires (with only Amavi and Nkule Galadima having presence, and no Akunanse having dominate), Computer Hacking will be our bleed action of preference, with Force of Will being our only other bleed action option. To suplement Computer Hacking, and to give the appearance of a slower deck, bleed retainers and equipment will be added to give the deck a long reach, and a powerful end game. There are a number of permanent bleed options that must be considered when building the best Akunanse bleed deck. First is the retainer group: J.S. Simmons, Esq. Robert Carter Tasha Morgan The second is master card based: Ancestor Spirit Legendary Vampire The third is equipment based: Eye of Hazimel Inveraray, Scotland Kduva's Mask Laptop Computer Reliquary: Akunanse Remains Seal of Veddartha Stolen Police Cruiser The last is action based: Tier of Souls Some of these will be removed based upon their large or repeating costs. Robert Carter and Eye of Hazimel will not go in the primary version of this deck. Their continuous costs are prohibitive in a deck that is not dedicated to regaining blood and pool, and we will be focusing on bleeding in this version. Some of these will not go into the deck because of the extra actions required to set them up. Stolen Police Cruiser and Inveraray, Scotland will not appear in the first version of the deck inspite of our clans facility with Fortitude and ability to Freak Drive. Predator's Mastery is our only action modifier that can add to the amount of our bleed. This card will make up a significant portion of our deck. Predator's Transformation is our primary stealth card, giving our actions 1 stealth when they are announced. It will be used in moderation, as the block fails options of Predator's Mastery and Devil-Channel: Throat will allow us bleed a little more responsibly, when our prey has bleed bounce. The key to our bleeding responsibly will be to delicately inform our grand-prey that they will need to keep a vampire at least the age of our oldest vampire untapped or available to block. This may not be possible for them, and we will take it into consideration when playing the deck. The Akunanse do not have access to pool regaining actions or actions that put counters on uncontrolled vampires. This will cause us to be very careful with our pool, and we will avoid the nine and ten capacity vampires in the bleed deck. We will drop Meno Ngari, as his inferior level of Abombwe will not help us in our primary concern, bleeding, and our other vampires will also be better defenders. This leaves us with 8 different Akunanse vampires. We will have three copies of Amavi, because she is the focus of this first deck, and we will duplicate Nkule Galadima and Uchenna, as their capacity will work very well with our action modifer block fails cards. Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 18, Max: 32, Avg: 6.50) ---------------------------------------------- 3 Amavi pre pro ABO ANI FOR 8, Akunanse:4 1 Dolie abo ani 3, Akunanse:4 1 Hasani for ABO 4, Akunanse:4 1 Jubal for pot ABO ANI 6, Akunanse:4 1 Kikiyaon abo ani FOR 5, Akunanse:4 2 Nkule Galadima ani aus pre ABO FOR 8, Akunanse:4, magaji 1 Sanjo abo chi ANI FOR 6, Akunanse:3 2 Uchenna ABO ANI FOR 7, Akunanse:4, magaji Three of our distinct vampires are eligible targets for Legendary Vampire out of the box, and Sanjo can also receive it if he gets Abombwe as a trifle immediately before. This is a definite include. All but 2 members of our crypt can be targetted by Ancestor Spirit, so it is another definite. Three members of our crypt can benefit from Abombwe, and the difference between basic and superior is significant for the cards we are using, so we will add five copies to the deck to ensure we get them early. As we plan to acquire permanent bleed modifiers, a copy of Heidelburg Castle, Germany will need to make an appearance so that we get the most bang for our actions. Pool gain / regain will be an issue, so Blood Dolls and our Jungle Hunting Ground will make appearances as well. As all of our vampires are Laibon, Mbare Market, Harare will go in as well to help us for the long term. We do not have access to bleed bounce, so 2 copies of Major Boon will help defend our pool. Fame should always be on our prey's vampires and not our own, so we will include one to contest or protect our vampires. Master [20] 5x Abombwe 2x Ancestor Spirit 5x Blood Doll 1x Fame 1x Heidelberg Castle, Germany 1x Jungle Hunting Ground 2x Legendary Vampire 2x Major Boon 1x Mbare Market, Harare For our actions, we will primarily be recruiting and equipping, but we will have 4 Computer Hacking and 2 Force of Will to improve our bleed performance. We will include 4 rush actions to help keep minions that might bounce our bleeds empty and out of our way. We would like to include Sense Death, as it is at stealth, and requires Animalism, but the younger vampire restriction is likely to trip us up when our largest vampires are the ones we want taking the bleed actions. We will avoid Tier of Souls in the first build, as we do not want to defend it. Action [10] 4x Computer Hacking 2x Force of Will 4x Bum's Rush We will have one of each of the increased bleed retainers. We will also put in 4 copies of Raven Spy to help build our defense. Retainer [6] 1x J.S. Simmons, Esq. 1x Tasha Morgan 4x Raven Spy We will start with one of each of the most appropriate equipment cards, and avoid duplication. This will enable us to get the most out of each piece of equipment when we transfer it around with Heidelburg Castle. Equipment [4] 1x Kduva's Mask 1x Laptop Computer 1x Reliquary: Akunanse Remains 1x Seal of Veddartha For action modifiers, we will want stealth, unblockability, and plus bleed. Action Modifier [20] 4x Devil-Channel: Throat 4x Freak Drive 7x Predator's Mastery 4x Predator's Transformation 1x Strange Day At this point, we have dedicated 60 cards to our primary strategy. The remaining thirty cards will be devoted to keeping us in the game long enough to let our strategy work. Carrion Crows and Invoking the Beast have wonderful symmetry. When these two are combined with a few Devil-Channel: Hands, our combat package will be complete. Combat [15] 5x Carrion Crows 3x Devil-Channel: Hands 5x Invoking the Beast 2x Skin of Steel Our remaining fifteen cards will go to untap and intercept cards for our defense. Predator's Communion fills both needs well, and we will supplement it with Cats' Guidance. Terra Incognita will complete our bleed and bleed bounce defense. Reaction [15] 8x Predator's Communion 4x Cats' Guidance 3x Terra Incognita Future letters will explore other strategies open to the Akunanse, and this letter will close with a recap of the deck all in one place. Deck Name : Amavi Shakes Her Money Maker Author : Wanderer's Counsel Description : Akunanse Letters - Amavi Crypt [12 vampires] (Min: 18, Max: 32, Avg: 6.50) ------------------------------------------------------------ 3x Amavi 8 ABO ANI FOR pre pro Akunanse:4 2x Nkule Galadima 8 ABO FOR ani aus pre magaji Akunanse:4 2x Uchenna 7 ABO ANI FOR magaji Akunanse:4 1x Jubal 6 ABO ANI for pot Akunanse:4 1x Sanjo 6 ANI FOR abo chi Akunanse:3 1x Kikiyaon, The 5 FOR abo ani Akunanse:4 1x Hasani 4 ABO for Akunanse:4 1x Dolie 3 abo ani Akunanse:4 Library [90 cards] ------------------------------------------------------------ Action [10] 4x Bum's Rush 4x Computer Hacking 2x Force of Will Action Modifier [16] 4x Devil-Channel: Throat 4x Freak Drive 7x Predator's Mastery 1x Strange Day Action Modifier/Combat [4] 4x Predator's Transformation Combat [15] 5x Carrion Crows 3x Devil-Channel: Hands 5x Invoking the Beast 2x Skin of Steel Equipment [4] 1x Kduva's Mask 1x Laptop Computer 1x Reliquary: Akunanse Remains 1x Seal of Veddartha Master [20] 5x Abombwe 2x Ancestor Spirit 5x Blood Doll 1x Fame 1x Heidelberg Castle, Germany 1x Jungle Hunting Ground 2x Legendary Vampire 2x Major Boon 1x Mbare Market, Harare Reaction [15] 4x Cats' Guidance 8x Predator's Communion 3x Terra Incognita Retainer [6] 1x J. S. Simmons, Esq. 4x Raven Spy 1x Tasha Morgan

> The Akunanse do not have access to pool regaining actions or actions > that put counters on > uncontrolled vampires. They do but it requires a Magaji, it's called Belonging Grants Protection. There's also the master card Mbare Market, Harare that adds a counter to an uncontrolled laibon. We will drop Meno Ngari, as his inferior level of Abombwe will > not help us in our primary concern, bleeding, and our other vampires > will also be better defenders. Meno is actually a good early bleeder. If you're using Computer Hacking, he can bleed for 3 pool at +1 stealth by using Predator's Mastery and Predator's Transformation. He can help rescue your vamps from torpor, and is an excellent chump (expendable) blocker =) I would put 1 copy of him in your crypt. (he can even do your recuit actions and then just transfer them later using heidelburg)

Nice work here. I really like the format you used, walking through the steps of deck design piece by piece. Some more general strategy discussion might do well in future Letters. Do you intend to or have you already registered this project as the VEKN Akunanse newsletter? > Three of our distinct vampires are eligible targets for Legendary > Vampire out of the box, and Sanjo can also receive it if he gets > Abombwe as a trifle immediately before. This is a definite include. I used to really like Legendary Vampire, but it's been years since I've played with it. In my view, the 2 pool cost and strict timing requirement make this card less than awesome. > All but 2 members of our crypt can be targetted by Ancestor Spirit, so > it is another definite. This is much better. If it weren't unique I'd recommend that you ditch the LV for another copy. >Three members of our crypt can benefit from > Abombwe, and the difference between basic and superior is significant > for the cards we are using, so we will add five copies to the deck to > ensure we get them early. 5 might be too many, and you might clog on them later in the game. The fact that they're trifles is great, but if there are no legal targets for them they'll stick. I think 3-4 is a more appropriate number. >As we plan to acquire permanent bleed > modifiers, a copy of Heidelburg Castle, Germany will need to make an > appearance so that we get the most bang for our actions. Pool gain / > regain will be an issue, so Blood Dolls and our Jungle Hunting Ground > will make appearances as well. As all of our vampires are Laibon, > Mbare Market, Harare will go in as well to help us for the long term. > We do not have access to bleed bounce, so 2 copies of Major Boon will > help defend our pool. Fame should always be on our prey's vampires and > not our own, so we will include one to contest or protect our vampires. All of this sounds good to me. > Master [20] > 5x Abombwe > 2x Ancestor Spirit > 5x Blood Doll > 1x Fame > 1x Heidelberg Castle, Germany > 1x Jungle Hunting Ground > 2x Legendary Vampire > 2x Major Boon > 1x Mbare Market, Harare 2 copies of those unique masters is a bit sketchy I think. It looks like you might be rather master-heavy anyhow, so just taking them out for other card types isn't a bad idea. > Action [10] > 4x Computer Hacking > 2x Force of Will > 4x Bum's Rush This looks good for the most part. Given your combat package, Harass might be better than Bum's Rush (presses are very helpful for you). Its targetting restrictions tend to become pretty negligible as the game wears on. > We will have one of each of the increased bleed retainers. We will > also put in 4 copies of Raven Spy to help build our defense. Always a good idea when you've got ani kicking around. > Equipment [4] > 1x Kduva's Mask > 1x Laptop Computer > 1x Reliquary: Akunanse Remains > 1x Seal of Veddartha All of these are good. You might even get some use out the FOR that SoV eventually provides (though not if you Heidelburg it around). > For action modifiers, we will want stealth, unblockability, and plus > bleed. > > Action Modifier [20] > 4x Devil-Channel: Throat > 4x Freak Drive > 7x Predator's Mastery > 4x Predator's Transformation > 1x Strange Day This looks pretty good, though it might be too many AMs for the deck. > At this point, we have dedicated 60 cards to our primary strategy. The > remaining thirty cards will be devoted to keeping us in the game long > enough to let our strategy work. Carrion Crows and Invoking the Beast > have wonderful symmetry. When these two are combined with a few > Devil-Channel: Hands, our combat package will be complete. Hmmm...the more deck lists I see online the more I wonder if I live in a weird alternate reality. If you like, you can take my comments here as indicative of my personal taste and metagame considerations: > Combat [15] > 5x Carrion Crows > 3x Devil-Channel: Hands > 5x Invoking the Beast > 2x Skin of Steel This seems like an absurdly small number of combat cards for this deck, and it lacks most profoundly in what is probably the most important--damage prevention. If I were building this deck I would find room for about twice as many red cards. What you have here is a good start, so I'd add Indomitability (lots), Drawing out the Beast, and DC: Back, just to name what comes to me off hand. 15 just doesn't look like enough with the amount of blocking you're prepared for, let alone including 4 rush cards. > Reaction [15] > 8x Predator's Communion > 4x Cats' Guidance > 3x Terra Incognita These are good reactions, but I think 8xPC is too many. You can't use it for both untap and intercept in the same action, so I think it would be better to diversify a bit. Perhaps 4xPC, 2xForced/Wake, 2xInstinctive Reaction? So yeah...all in all I liked this newsletter, and I think you have the start of a good deck here. Since you're already talking in terms of gearing up and gritting your teeth for a nasty endgame, you might find it worthwhile to move further in that direction. This would would mean more combat, as I already suggested, and the possible inclusion of some Resorations and/or Ablative Skins to keep your vampires healthy for the long haul. Unfortunately, you might have to cut some of your bleed package to do this. Then again, if you were looking to make a good bleed deck you'd be writing about the Malkavians, right? Jesse

stinkycat wrote: > > The Akunanse do not have access to pool regaining actions or actions > > that put counters on uncontrolled vampires. > They do but it requires a Magaji, it's called Belonging Grants > Protection. > There's also the master card Mbare Market, Harare that adds a counter > to an uncontrolled laibon. Master cards are not actions. Mbare Market, Harare is already included in the deck. Belonging Grants Protection will appear in the Magaji focused deck.

>> Reaction [15] >> 8x Predator's Communion >> 4x Cats' Guidance >> 3x Terra Incognita >These are good reactions, but I think 8xPC is too many. You can't use >it for both untap and intercept in the same action, so I think it would >be better to diversify a bit. Perhaps 4xPC, 2xForced/Wake, >2xInstinctive Reaction? I plan on leaving the first vampire with a Raven Spy pretty much untapped for the rest of the game. The first block it has to make will tap it, and then the Cat's Guidance or Predator's Communion will untap it for the next block. Stopping the actions is important. Damaging my predator's minions is less so. Combat ends is particularly prevalent currently, (with the influx of all the new presence clans, Guruhi and Ishtarri) so additional combat will be more important later on than it is now. The deck is expected to change and mature as the playgroup adjusts.

> Stopping the actions is important. Damaging my predator's minions is > less so. Combat ends is particularly prevalent currently, (with the > influx of all the new presence clans, Guruhi and Ishtarri) so > additional combat will be more important later on than it is now. The > deck is expected to change and mature as the playgroup adjusts. I have had second thoughts about playing Ishtarri in the "strike: combat ends" mindset sort of present in the starter. with celerity and fortitude they should be able to survive adequately with simple damage prevention, stutter steps, guns and additional strikes, so on. really they are better fighters than Toreador so as long as you can get some intercept (rooftop shadow maybe, news radio type things) they might be better suited for gun deck than toreador are.

>I plan on leaving the first vampire with a Raven Spy pretty much >untapped for the rest of the game. The first block it has to make will >tap it, and then the Cat's Guidance or Predator's Communion will untap >it for the next block. Does noone ever get more than +1 stealth? Various wake cards would do just as well for this purpose, and the diversity would allow you to play multiple reactions when necessary. >Stopping the actions is important. Damaging my predator's minions is >less so. Combat ends is particularly prevalent currently, (with the >influx of all the new presence clans, Guruhi and Ishtarri) so >additional combat will be more important later on than it is now. The >deck is expected to change and mature as the playgroup adjusts. Alright. That's a pretty good justification for the size of your combat package. When I suggested more combat it was less with the intent of wasting enemy minions and more pointed in the direction of surviving against real combat decks. If no such decks are present in the metagame I suppose there's no reason to worry.

On 11 Dec 2005 11:15:44 -0800, "CthuluKitty" <vtana...@riseup.net> wrote: >>I plan on leaving the first vampire with a Raven Spy pretty much >>untapped for the rest of the game. The first block it has to make will >>tap it, and then the Cat's Guidance or Predator's Communion will untap >>it for the next block. >Does noone ever get more than +1 stealth? Nope, never. Of course they do, that's why the untap cards chosen also give intercept. >Various wake cards would do just as well for this purpose, and the diversity would allow you to >play multiple reactions when necessary. No, they wouldn't. See also: Ahrimanes.

>>Various wake cards would do just as well for this purpose, and the diversity would allow you to >>play multiple reactions when necessary. >No, they wouldn't. >See also: Ahrimanes. They wouldn't what? Note that when I said they would work just as well, the purpose I was referring to was the limited case of untapping and blocking with the inherent +1 intercept of a Raven Spy. I wasn't arguing against using these cards at all; I just think a more diversified selection of reactions would help. Currently, I use 2 or 3 copies of Instinctive Reaction, alongside a larger number of Cats, in animalism decks that want to block because the possibility of stacking one more intercept is often very useful (also, minions with only basic ani can get intercept, which will often catch people off guard if they're planning to get around Cats). My point is that you can use Predator's Communion to untap, and IR for intercept or use Forced Awakening to "untap" and PC for intercept. You can't use 2xPC for wake and intercept. Disciplineless wakes are also, well, disciplineless, and they can come from anywhere.

On 11 Dec 2005 12:37:01 -0800, "CthuluKitty" <vtana...@riseup.net> wrote: >Currently, I use 2 or 3 >copies of Instinctive Reaction, alongside a larger number of Cats, in >animalism decks that want to block The deck described does not want to block. It wants to discourage its predator from taking actions. An untapped vampire with a Raven Spy is remarkably convenient for doing that. It will block a few times, but the point of the deck is bleeding.

> The deck described does not want to block. > It wants to discourage its predator from taking actions. > > An untapped vampire with a Raven Spy is remarkably convenient for > doing that. It will block a few times, but the point of the deck is > bleeding. I didn't mean that blocking was the point of the deck, but obviously it does want/need to block, especially since it lacks bounce and any appreciable amount of bloat. If it were only trying to discourage its predator via untapped vampires with Raven Spy, why would Predator's Communion be in the deck at all? And what kind of predator is this going to actively discourage? Heavy stealth? Not likely. Bruise/rush combat? Again, not likely (unless you can pretend that you have the kind of heavy combat package one might expect from the Akunanse, but that won't last long). Weenies/Untap/Swarm? Well, yeah ok. All the untap should do pretty well against those types of offenses. The "doesn't want to block" line is meaningless semantics. The deck contains 15 reaction cards. 8 of them are Predator's Communion. For the reasons outlined previously, I personally would prefer a greater diversity within those 8 cards (such as a 4/2/2 or 6/1/1 split). I'm sure there are good arguments for not doing it that way, but points about what the deck "wants" to do are irrelevant when the question is between an equal number of very similar cards.

CthuluKitty wrote: > I didn't mean that blocking was the point of the deck, but obviously it > does want/need to block, especially since it lacks bounce and any > appreciable amount of bloat. If it were only trying to discourage its > predator via untapped vampires with Raven Spy, why would Predator's > Communion be in the deck at all? To enable that first round of block like activity. To enable more than one block attempt. To give the appearance of a different deck. > And what kind of predator is this going to actively discourage? Ventrue Law Firm. Weenie anything. Any vote without additional stealth. 'don't block my blood doll hunting and I won't bleed you this turn' Toreador antitribu Palla Grande / Foundation Exhibit. Heavy stealth is meaningless to attempt to block. Offense always wins. > The "doesn't want to block" line is meaningless semantics. So is your entire commentary. Build the deck. Play it. Then come back with some real appreciation for what could be changed or improved. > The deck contains 15 reaction cards. 8 of them are Predator's Communion. For > the reasons outlined previously, I personally would prefer a greater > diversity within those 8 cards (such as a 4/2/2 or 6/1/1 split). One copy of a card in a deck ensures you will not see it in time to use it. I see no reason to include 1 copy of any non-unique card, and most unique cards that are essential to your strategy should be duplicated. > I'm sure there are good arguments for not doing it that way, but points > about what the deck "wants" to do are irrelevant when the question is > between an equal number of very similar cards. Did you have a point? The cards are not similar. Untap cards that are not Predator's Communion cannot double as intercept for the Abombwe clan. Wait for the Jubal letter when you will see what the Akunanse can do with Intercept as a strategy. The intercept and untap in the Amavi deck are there to toolbox it up and to keep it from looking as dangerous as it actually is.

> >If it were only trying to discourage its > > predator via untapped vampires with Raven Spy, why would Predator's > > Communion be in the deck at all? > > To enable that first round of block like activity. > To enable more than one block attempt. > To give the appearance of a different deck. None of these things fall into the "only..." category that the Lasombra suggested. They're all good reasons for the card of course, and it's an all-round great card. That doesn't mean a diversification of reactions wouldn't or couldn't help. > > And what kind of predator is this going to actively discourage? > > Ventrue Law Firm. > Weenie anything. > Any vote without additional stealth. > 'don't block my blood doll hunting and I won't bleed you this turn' > Toreador antitribu Palla Grande / Foundation Exhibit. Agreed. That's pretty much exactly the conclusion I posted (if you include Ventrue Law Firm/low-stealth vote in the "untap" category, which seems reasonable). > Heavy stealth is meaningless to attempt to block. Offense always wins. Oh. That must be why Jay Kristoff's Sabbatspex took the EC by storm. > > The "doesn't want to block" line is meaningless semantics. > > So is your entire commentary. > Build the deck. > Play it. > Then come back with some real appreciation for what could be changed or > improved. This level of nastiness is just unwarranted. I responded to your post very positively, and only got a bit snappish when Jeff dismissed my comments off hand, and presented lines of argument that did not address what I was saying at all. Though I might like to, I'm not going to build and play this deck because: a) I don't have all the cards. b) I play a limited number of games and I have my own decks to play and improve. c) Even if I did, it wouldn't help the discussion because our metagames and playstyles are so vastly different. My guess is that I would probably end up saying exactly what I already did, though probably with greater specificity. If you don't welcome comments on your decks, why post them on the internet? You can't expect everyone who reads the post to go try the deck. And again, my comments were primarily positive, so what's the big deal? > One copy of a card in a deck ensures you will not see it in time to use > it. > I see no reason to include 1 copy of any non-unique card, and most > unique cards that are essential to your strategy should be duplicated. I simply don't agree with you here. One copy of a conditionally useful card can save your game if you hold it for the right moment. For example, in a recent game I held onto a Rapid Healing (the only copy in the deck) for what might have been up to 5 turns, and I literally could not have won without it. More than one in the deck would likely be excessive, and I would probably end up discarding one of them. It's also frequently very useful to have small numbers of cards your opponent might not see coming. Being too predictable can get you in trouble. The real question at hand is whether by diversifying as I've suggested you would be more likely to: a) Have a wake/IR in hand when you need the opposite reactive effect; or b) Come across a situation where you can use 2 reaction cards to wake and gain additional intercept. It's ultimately rather difficult to settle this kind of calculation, and it's going to be dependent on metagame and play style. If you're willing/able to sit on cards until the right time, the latter option becomes much more viable, but if you're forced to play cards as fast as possible it becomes harder to pull off. > Did you have a point? > > The cards are not similar. > > Untap cards that are not Predator's Communion cannot double as > intercept for the Abombwe clan. The cards are similar in that they share half of their effect with eachother. You're only going to use each Predator's Communion for one of its two effects, not both. If you manage your hand well you may be able to mitigate the disadvantage (less flexibility) while maximizing the advantage (stackabillity). You might even find yourself in a situation where IR's incidental maneuver helps you, or where PC won't help because your opponents are acting with allies. > Wait for the Jubal letter when you will see what the Akunanse can do > with Intercept as a strategy. The intercept and untap in the Amavi > deck are there to toolbox it up and to keep it from looking as > dangerous as it actually is. I look forward to it. Like I said, I really enjoyed the newsletter. If I hadn't, I wouldn't have replied. Unfortunately, the way you've responded makes me wonder if you actually want people to engage with what you're writing.

Does a minion need to play 2 Rolling with the Punches at superior to prevent both the main minion's strike and the winged second's strike? Or does 1 Rolling with the Punches at Superior prevent both strikes? I am really questioning how the two phrases "treeat this as a strike from AN opposing minion" and "prevent all damage from THE opposing minion's strikes" interact. relevent card text: Winged Second FLIGHT] Only usable when another minion you control enters combat with a minion without flight. Tap this minion. In that combat, this minion may make a hand or melee weapon strike (with or without a strike card) on the opposing minion during normal strike resolution (as if at close range). Dodge will avoid this strike, and damage prevention effects can treat this as a strike from an opposing minion. This minion may be the target of effects that inflict damage or steal blood as a retainer could be. Rolling with the Punches This vampire burns 1 blood to prevent all damage from the opposing minion's strikes this round of combat thanks, gNat

CthuluKitty wrote: > > Heavy stealth is meaningless to attempt to block. Offense always wins. > Oh. That must be why Jay Kristoff's Sabbatspex took the EC by storm. Do you understand the difference between his dedicated intercept deck and this bleed deck that we are discussing in this letter and thread? Please notice of the focus of the responses by Lasombra and myself. All about this deck. Not about the game, not about your personality, about this deck. > If you don't welcome comments on your decks, why post them on the > internet? I do welcome comments on the deck. I don't welcome comments that say build a completely different deck when the article was intended to address how this deck that bleeds as it only means of ousting its prey should be built. > You can't expect everyone who reads the post to go try the > deck. And again, my comments were primarily positive, so what's the > big deal? Where do you see a big deal? > > One copy of a card in a deck ensures you will not see it in time to use > > it. > > I see no reason to include 1 copy of any non-unique card, and most > > unique cards that are essential to your strategy should be duplicated. > I simply don't agree with you here. Not a problem. My experience does not match yours. > The real question at hand is whether by diversifying as I've suggested > you would be more likely to: > a) Have a wake/IR in hand when you need the opposite reactive effect; > or > b) Come across a situation where you can use 2 reaction cards to wake > and gain additional intercept. Adding wakes to this deck removes strategy decisions that you can make during play. If you see a need to keep multiple minions untapped and expect them to gain intercept, you can do so with Predator's Communion in hand. You cannot make that strategic decision with a Wake in hand. Best expected results for the deck, 1 vampire with 2 Raven Spy retainers untapped at the end of your turn to discourage your predator from actions they are not positive they can succeed on. More intercept than that requires a different deck and a different play style. This deck is meant to go forward, as hard and as fast as it can, while gaining permanent effects that speed up its momentum as players are removed. > It's ultimately rather difficult to settle this kind of calculation, > and it's going to be dependent on metagame and play style. If you're > willing/able to sit on cards until the right time, the latter option > becomes much more viable, but if you're forced to play cards as fast as > possible it becomes harder to pull off. I am not willing to sit on cards until the right time in this deck. This decks best bet for staying in the game long enough to win is to gain 6 pool by ousting its prey. Holding an Instinctive Reaction or Wake is not going to help that. One to two intercept from the permanent Raven Spy will be sufficient for what this deck wants to do.

tigernat1 wrote: > Does a minion need to play 2 Rolling with the Punches at superior to > prevent both the main minion's strike and the winged second's strike? Yes. > Or does 1 Rolling with the Punches at Superior prevent both strikes? No. RwP only prevents the damage from one minion's strikes.

This is how I'm gonna play Amavi. It's easy, if you listen carefully. 17 Amavi 8 ABO ANI FOR pre pro Akunase +1 Bleed Master 3 Dreams of the Sphinx Action 10 Embrace 10 Dual Form 10 Force of Will Action Modifier 18 Freak Drive 10 Daring the Dawn 10 Aire of Ellation Equipment 10 Reliquary: Akunase Remains 7 Soul Gem of Etrius Combat 2 Form of Mist Some choices are not optimal. The other way of playing it is [Lameth's version] 14x Amavi 8 ABO ANI FOR pre pro Akunanse:4 Action [24] 14x Dual Form 10x Force of Will Action Modifier [40] 10x Aire of Elation 10x Daring the Dawn 6x Day Operation 14x Freak Drive Equipment [18] 10x Reliquary: Akunanse Remains 8x Soul Gem of Etrius Master [4] 4x Dreams of the Sphinx It's easy. Amavi finds a gem. It belonged to an old guy. Etrius, some call him. She, excited, continues her searches, and finds some ancient artifact, a reliquary. She's so excited, she decides to have children. But her end seems close, and she decides to die in a final blow, calling her twin sister Amavi to come. In Lameth's version, you loose blood by becoming Anarch. For my version, here's the blood countdown: Dual Form : 6 blood left Equip Reliquary: 6 blood left Freak Drive: 5 blood left Embrace: 3 blood left Force of will 2 blood left + 1 aggravated damage Aire of Elation 1 blood left + 1 aggravaated damage. Daring the dawn : 1 blood left + 3 aggravated damage. So she burns, and a new one, with the same Soul Gem, come into play. Form of Myst are against Carter.

On 12 Dec 2005 11:53:43 -0800, floppyz...@netscape.net wrote: >It's easy. >Amavi finds a gem. It belonged to an old guy. Etrius, some call him. >She, excited, continues her searches, and finds some ancient artifact, >a reliquary. >She's so excited, she decides to have children. >But her end seems close, and she decides to die in a final blow, >calling her twin sister Amavi to come. >In Lameth's version, you loose blood by becoming Anarch. >For my version, here's the blood countdown: >Dual Form : 6 blood left The Dual Form vampire will burn when Amavi burns. Consider Devil-Channel: Throat and Those Who Endure Judge as alternate blood removing cards that can be played on any of the actions Amavi's takes. Also consider Neutral Guard and Earth Control for those last minute blood removal necessities. [ quoted text not captured ]

Amavi only has inferior protean, so there's no new Dual Form coming in play. Dual Forms makes her - untap - burn 2 blood (necessary) - able to untap once again this turn. Devil Channel: Throat is a good idea, but it requires a block attempt. Those who endure Judge, Neutral Guard is not a that interesting, because it won't make a blocker think again about it. I don't think this deck really needs an Earth control. If Carter tries to block you, he will. But he'll only catch you once. All you have to know is that, once the first turn of the turbo is shown, every one knows which card you'll play after each of your cards. And, even worse, they all know wich card you HAVE to play after any card. So they know what to do, and what not to do. Including Those who endure jduge is a way of adding a problem to the deck : if your prey denies any block, maybe he'll die. But you'll have a hand full of DCT... And no way to use them. Adding cards to the deck will slow it down. I can remove the Dual Forms and choose the Lameth's version. But i've allways thought that be able to untap at any moment - even when blocked, at the end of the combat - is a great thing.

> Do you understand the difference between his dedicated intercept deck > and this bleed deck that we are discussing in this letter and thread? Of course I understand the difference, but the text I responded didn't make the distinction at all. It just said "offense always wins". > I do welcome comments on the deck. > > I don't welcome comments that say build a completely different deck > when the article was intended to address how this deck that bleeds as > it only means of ousting its prey should be built. We're talking about 2-4 cards here. I hardly see how that constitutes building a completely different deck. --snip-- > I am not willing to sit on cards until the right time in this deck. > This decks best bet for staying in the game long enough to win is to > gain 6 pool by ousting its prey. Holding an Instinctive Reaction or > Wake is not going to help that. > > One to two intercept from the permanent Raven Spy will be sufficient > for what this deck wants to do. If you think that will work then go for it. The main thing I would worry about is the possibility that even with this much focus, the deck just won't be fast enough to accomplish this goal, especially with the emphasis on gearing up. If that turns out to be totally off base then you can ignore my suggestions. If you do have this kind of problem, one available option is going more in the direction of a fighty/toolboxy/bleedy strategy--a direction the deck alright points in. If you decide to do that, then my comments might be useful. If not, that's fine too. What gets on my nerves is when responses take the general shape of "no, you're wrong" with very little apparent consideration of what I actually said, and that's how several of those posts in this thread looked to me.

> Do you understand the difference between his dedicated intercept deck > and this bleed deck that we are discussing in this letter and thread? Of course I understand the difference, but the text I responded didn't make the distinction at all. It just said "offense always wins". > I do welcome comments on the deck. > > I don't welcome comments that say build a completely different deck > when the article was intended to address how this deck that bleeds as > it only means of ousting its prey should be built. We're talking about 2-4 cards here. I hardly see how that constitutes building a completely different deck. --snip-- > I am not willing to sit on cards until the right time in this deck. > This decks best bet for staying in the game long enough to win is to > gain 6 pool by ousting its prey. Holding an Instinctive Reaction or > Wake is not going to help that. > > One to two intercept from the permanent Raven Spy will be sufficient > for what this deck wants to do. If you think that will work then go for it. The main thing I would [ quoted text not captured ]

floppyz...@netscape.net wrote: > > In Lameth's version, you loose blood by becoming Anarch. > For my version, here's the blood countdown: > > Dual Form : 6 blood left > Equip Reliquary: 6 blood left > Freak Drive: 5 blood left > Embrace: 3 blood left > Force of will 2 blood left + 1 aggravated damage > Aire of Elation 1 blood left + 1 aggravaated damage. > Daring the dawn : 1 blood left + 3 aggravated damage. > > So she burns, and a new one, with the same Soul Gem, come into play. > Form of Myst are against Carter. I had a simpler Turbo ideas for Nkule Galadima and The Eldest Command Undeath.... without the progeny/protean angle So it would be Equip Reliquary: 8 blood left -1 pool Freak Drive: 7 blood left The Eldest Command Undeath: 0 Blood left and One of your preys vamps 6 or under burnt Bribes: +1 pool canceling out the Reliquary Cost enabling proper infinite Turboness Force of will at Inf 0 blood left + 2 aggravated damage This is minimum combo I could think of to be infinite, add some tension in the ranks or + bleed for more damage. The bribes isn't ideal as it will allow everyone else with Titled Vampires to gain pool as well. The lack of superior presence hampers pool gain... Another possibility for pool gain is belonging grants protection. Less than ideal, because it is another action so another freak drive needed and requires you to have a transfer phase in which to actually gain pool. Nkule also sets up the second vote as when you sucessfully bleed the first time you can burn the Edge on the second iteration to gain 3 votes. It is worth noting that you shouldn't burn your preys last vampire below 6, by voting against with Nkule or the edge (if you can?, can't check the rules at the moment), so that there is still a valid target for the vote. If anyone builds this sort of deck I would be interested in how it goes. I don't have the cards and I am really focussing on the Ishtarri at the moment.

On 12 Dec 2005 17:20:39 -0800, "Loadquo" <loa...@gmail.com> wrote: >This is minimum combo I could think of to be infinite, add some tension >in the ranks or + bleed for more damage. Tension in the Ranks destroys turbo decks as you are constantly burning a controlled vampire. I would recommend not including Tension in the Ranks.

> Tension in the Ranks destroys turbo decks as you are constantly > burning a controlled vampire. > I would recommend not including Tension in the Ranks. Hmm, my n00bness is showing. I hadn't thought that far ahead... thanks for the catch.

Loadquo escreveu: > I had a simpler Turbo ideas for Nkule Galadima and The Eldest Command > Undeath.... without the progeny/protean angle > So it would be > Equip Reliquary: 8 blood left -1 pool > Freak Drive: 7 blood left > The Eldest Command Undeath: 0 Blood left and One of your preys vamps 6 > or under burnt > Bribes: +1 pool canceling out the Reliquary Cost enabling proper > infinite Turboness > Force of will at Inf 0 blood left + 2 aggravated damage Force of Will costs a blood. Not a big problem, you'd just have to low down your vampire burnination range to 5-caps. And how will you pass the vote with an Akunanse deck? As far as I recall, they have only two Magajis and inferior Presence (unless you use Ugadja, since he's a undercover Akunanse inbetween the Guruhi anyway). Bribes doesn't seem to be a good plan when you're calling a vote that burns vampires, unless your grandprey has a lot of votes also and you choose the "right" vampire to burn. I still think the best ways to "abuse" (with all due quoting) are... - Giant's Blood, The Coven, Perfectionist and a plethora of other effects to avoid hunting next turn (Perfectionist is better, since you can Force of Will immediately if you have [for]) - Mata Hari with an Ankara Citadel and then Freak Drive + Concert Tour - Una goes Laibon and then calls it, Freak Drives for free, hunts for 3 with Excellent Thirst, Freak Drives for free, calls a Restoration, Freak Drives for free... You get the idea best, Fabio "Sooner" Macedo

>Force of Will costs a blood. Not a big problem, you'd just have to low >down your vampire burnination range to 5-caps. Another flaw in my plan... dammit. It might be worth spinkling in a few daring the dawns, so you can TECU them and burn after to burn the larger vampires. If there is some blood gain actions in there you could burn an 7-cap or below. So this set of actions would be Equip Reliquary: 8 blood left -1 pool (Now a 9 cap) Freak Drive: 7 blood left Gain 2 blood some how: 9 blood Freak Drive: 8 blood The Eldest Command Undeath: 0 + Act mod Bribes: +1 pool Daring the Dawn +2 Agg damage Don't get the edge for the next iteration, but it may be worth it to get rid of a large voter. >And how will you pass the vote with an Akunanse deck? As far as I >recall, they have only two Magajis and inferior Presence (unless you >use Ugadja, since he's a undercover Akunanse inbetween the Guruhi >anyway). Bribes doesn't seem to be a good plan when you're calling a >vote that burns vampires, unless your grandprey has a lot of votes also >and you choose the "right" vampire to burn. The one I was thinking of using was Nkule Galadima 8 ABO FOR ani aus pre magaji Akunanse:4 Laibon magaji: Lasombra cannot cast votes in referendums called by Nkule (including in the prisci sub-referendum). While he is ready, if you burn the Edge for a vote, you gain an additional 2 votes. It has to be proper Akunanse because of the reliquary. Reliquary: Akunanse Remains Type: Equipment Requires: Akunanse Cost: 1 pool Unique equipment. During your untap phase, choose Abombwe [abo], Animalism [ani], or Fortitude [for]. Until your next untap phase, the Akunanse with this equipment has an additional level of the chosen Discipline. The Akunanse with this equipment gets +1 bleed and gains 1 capacity: he or she is one generation older. Else I would have had Ugadja for his large Cap burniness potential. I don't fancy adding in clan impersonates in... Bribes was simply in there to offset the pool cost of the reliquary, giving a pool to yourself, else you are bleeding yourself for one every time you equip with it. Which is hopefully many times in a turn.... We could use new Akunanse tech to pass the vote, such as Wanderer's Counsel. Gives an extra vote or could be used to get an extra blood in a hunt pre Commanding undeath, bringing burnination back up to 6 caps. Or Bewitching Orations. As I mentioned second vamp TECUs should be easyish with 6 votes if you burn the edge, without action modifiers. > I still think the best ways to "abuse" (with all due quoting) are... > - Giant's Blood, The Coven, Perfectionist and a plethora of other > effects to avoid hunting next turn (Perfectionist is better, since you > can Force of Will immediately if you have [for]) I am a little confused.... The point of the deck, like the one I replied to was to have the vampire burn, to bring out a new one with the Soul Gem. So next turn doesn't matter so much. > - Mata Hari with an Ankara Citadel and then Freak Drive + Concert Tour This does sound like a fine plan. She has the OBF to get the first action through as well. > - Una goes Laibon and then calls it, Freak Drives for free, hunts for 3 > with Excellent Thirst, Freak Drives for free, calls a Restoration, > Freak Drives for free... You get the idea I shall beware Una going laibon from now on :)

Loadquo wrote: > > > - Una goes Laibon and then calls it, Freak Drives for free, hunts for 3 > > with Excellent Thirst, Freak Drives for free, calls a Restoration, > > Freak Drives for free... You get the idea > > I shall beware Una going laibon from now on :) That's easy. Just bring your no Secrets+Concealed .44 deck and see how many +1 stealth actions Una can do. It just seems to me that No Secrets was made against Una or some other multiaction, -Antero

No Secrets is actually pretty much a weenie hoser once you have it out. Most weenie decks rely on +1 stealth swarming, No Secrets lets the one vampire block like crazy. D

floppyz...@netscape.net wrote: > Amavi only has inferior protean, so there's no new Dual Form coming in play. > Dual Forms makes her > - untap > - burn 2 blood (necessary) > - able to untap once again this turn. Aside from the inability to beg, borrow, or steal 10 copies of one of the most wanted rares from Kindred Most Wanted, the Turbo player on a budget can try this version, with rares from Jyhad/VTES/Camarilla and Legacies of Blood required. Deck Name : Turbo Amavi Author : Wanderer's Counsel Description : A variant of Turbo Arika / Turbo Lucita using Amavi. Crypt [14 vampires] Capacity min: 8 max: 8 average: 8 ------------------------------------------------------------ 14x Amavi 8 ABO ANI FOR pre pro Akunanse:4 Library [90 cards] ------------------------------------------------------------ Action [20] 10x Embrace, The 10x Force of Will The Embraces serve a multiple functions. 1) Remove two blood from Amavi. 2) Diablerize her if something horrible happens during your Turbo turn. 3) Serve as an end-game swarm with your last copy of Amavi. Action Modifier [49] 10x Aire of Elation 3x Approximation of Loyalty 10x Daring the Dawn 3x Devil-Channel: Throat 16x Freak Drive 3x Neutral Guard 1x Strange Day 3x Those Who Endure Judge Approximation of Loyalty, Neutral Guard, Those Who Endure Judge, and Strange Day are included simply to remove blood from Amavi consistently throughout the turn. Alternate possibilities for losing blood include going Anarch. Equipment [16] 9x Reliquary: Akunanse Remains 7x Soul Gem of Etrius Reliquary increases Amavi's capacity by one, allowing the Soul Gem combo to go off correctly. Master [5] 3x Dreams of the Sphinx 1x Elder Library 1x Fragment of the Book of Nod You will have two turns of transfers (at minimum) before you can begin your Turbo actions. All of the above masters will help improve your odds of seeing the combo continue past the first few actions. Crafted with : Anarch Revolt Deck Builder. [Tue Dec 13 07:08:42 2005]

On 12 Dec 2005 17:20:39 -0800, "Loadquo" <loa...@gmail.com> wrote: Re: Turbo Nkule Galadima >Equip Reliquary: 8 blood left -1 pool >Freak Drive: 7 blood left >The Eldest Command Undeath: 0 Blood left and One of your preys vamps 6 >or under burnt Unless the Eldest Command Undeath always fails, you are unlikely to continue with your Turbo turn successfully. Nkule is 8 capacity. That allows your prey time to bring out 3 minions of 4 capacity or less (with you going 4th), possibly 4. It is very unlikely that you will prey on the weenie deck every time you play the deck. If you want to Turbo Nkule, you will want to use multiple different votes and Awe. That way one copy of Delaying Tactics doesn't stop your turn cold. I would go with 10 votes, 1 of each, being the following: Kine Resources Contested Conservative Agitation Banishment Consanguineous Condemnation Kindred Segregation Peace Treaty Year of Fortune And these three if you choose not to use Embrace: Anarchist Uprising Ancilla Empowerment Domain Challenge If you do choose to use Embrace, then these three: Consanguineous Boon The Eldest Command Undeath The Final Nights

The Lasombra wrote: > On 12 Dec 2005 17:20:39 -0800, "Loadquo" <loa...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Re: Turbo Nkule Galadima > >Equip Reliquary: 8 blood left -1 pool > >Freak Drive: 7 blood left > >The Eldest Command Undeath: 0 Blood left and One of your preys vamps 6 > >or under burnt > > Unless the Eldest Command Undeath always fails, you are unlikely to > continue with your Turbo turn successfully. Nkule was going to vote against it before your prey ran out of eligible minions. I was mainly using as a way of reducing the number of cards in the combo, the burning your preys minions was a bit of a side issue. Maybe not the most efficient forward pressure wise, but that was what the Force of Will is for. > Nkule is 8 capacity. > That allows your prey time to bring out 3 minions of 4 capacity or > less (with you going 4th), possibly 4. It is very unlikely that you > will prey on the weenie deck every time you play the deck. > > If you want to Turbo Nkule, you will want to use multiple different > votes and Awe. That way one copy of Delaying Tactics doesn't stop > your turn cold. True. I would be tempted to go with Amavi in this situation as the + bleed on the force of will would add up and the awes will give a bit of vote push that is needed. Another variant would be to use mob rule instead (as you would gain more votes that way) and let everyone else empty themselves of blood if they want to stop the vote.

On 12 Dec 2005 09:17:54 -0800, Wanderer's Counsel <akun...@gmail.com> wrote: > One copy of a card in a deck ensures you will not see it in time to use > it. > I see no reason to include 1 copy of any non-unique card, and most > unique cards that are essential to your strategy should be duplicated. This statement is pretty much false. If your deck's main strategy relies on repetitious use of a certain card or cards, then including multiples is indeed beneficial for the deck. However, 1 of a card that is not part of the main strategy, for example, is a very valid inclusion in a deck that can greatly benefit from it. Some no-brainer non-unique cards that can easily contrubute to a deck's success even when would include Archon Investigation, Ally-stealing effects, Location-burning or stealing effect, some permanent resources for the endgame (like a .44 or Bike), or any conditional effect which overall will net you a bigger swing when used than the opportunity cost of having to use a DPA to discard it in games when it is not used (getting rid of a dead card instead of spending the DPA on optimising your hand). There are countless specific examples when a deck I played was enhanced by adding a single copy of a card to it. -- Bye, Daneel

--snip-- >There are countless specific examples when a deck I played was enhanced >by adding a single copy of a card to it. Thanks for supporting my viewpoint on this one. I think this question boils down to a very great extent one of a philosophy of the game. Many players these days are leaning in the direction of uber-streamlined decks that are intended to produced reliable results with limited room for flexibility. In my view, it's much more fun (yes, fun matters, even in competitive games) and even at times more effective to be able to surprise other players, and be surprised yourself.

[ quoted text not captured ] While I don't disagree with this, I also refer to competitive play. I put 1× Ambrosius, the Ferryman in a Powerbleed deck, and he has proven to be a worthy inclusion despite the fact that the deck didn't use retainers, nor had ways to utilise Ambrosius for anything except to block 0-stealth actions. We're talking about a tier-1 competitive deck concept, and in a number of games Ambrosious contributed to my VPs far more than the nth Govern, Conditioning, Seduction, Call of the Hungry Dead or Deflection would have. Sometimes I had to discard him for lack of action, pool or (most likely) appropriate environment, but all in all I never regretted having him in that deck. In a Malkavian Antitribu stealth bleed deck (another tier 1 competitive deck concept) 1 put cards like 1× Lunatic Eruption, 1× Patterns in the Chaos, 1× Restructure. The first two cards actually won me a table each! I never regretted including these cards in the deck. When they came up in the right time, they had far greater swing than the 16th Kindred Spirits would have. I have numerous examples even just from competitive play. -- Bye, Daneel

> While I don't disagree with this, I also refer to competitive play. As opposed to games of Jyhad where the players aren't trying to win? The distinction between casual/serious is, I feel, pejoritive. The game is always competetive. In any case, I was arguing from the grounds of competitive effectiveness as well. Having more interesting games is a possible side benefit. >....We're talking about a tier-1 competitive > deck concept.... Since Jyhad is a multiplayer game I'm really not sure that such a thing as "tiers" can be said to exist. A deck that one might consider "tier 1" at some given event might be crap in a different metagame. Of course, some concepts are just bad, but among those that "work" I think it's very hard to pick the best ones indepedent of some specific metagame. I'm not meaning to disagree with your point here (since I completely agree with it). I just have problems with some of the terminology.