A few questions

I have scanned over the rules and internet and have not found little about the following. Can someone give me clarification and rule references to the following questions. 1. Can a vampire use a card that has a cost in blood more than what he currently possesses or does the vampire go to torpor. If the answere is no, then I take it that a vampire with 0 blood cannot use skin of steel to prevent that vampire from being burned from 1 point of aggravated damage. 2. With regards to damage prevention, can you choose which damage is being prevented? If a vampire takes 1 aggravated and 1 normal, I know that the aggravated is applied to the vampire last, but can a skin of rock prevent the point of aggravated damage? 3. Ok, there are limitations as to the number of action modifiers, reactions, and strikes. But a card like Undead Strength is not a strike. Can 2 Undead Strengths be used in the same combat round for the same strike? 4. Can the 5th Tradition be used on the acting Vampire? My first instinct would be no since the acting vampire would spend one blood and then get it all back as well as the definition of Hospitality. However, the card itself does not make this restriction. 5. I do not have the text in front of me, so this question may be not valid. Ancient Influence is limited in the number of times it can be played. Can one be played after another one was sucessfully blocked? Does Using Ancient Influence Cards for extra votes follow the same restriction? 6. I am sure this would be considered a house rule. Can a vampire with 0 blood use Restoration instead of the normal hunting restriction? Thank you in advance. ^ ^ | ^ \|/ ha...@shadow.net <---x---> Scott Marcellus /|\ http://anshar.shadow.net/~havok V | V V

In article <318a6d6b....@news.shadow.net>, ha...@shadow.net (Scott Marcellus) wrote: : I have scanned over the rules and internet and have not found little : about the following. Can someone give me clarification and rule : references to the following questions. I can give you the answers, but probably not the rules references. : 1. Can a vampire use a card that has a cost in blood more than what he : currently possesses or does the vampire go to torpor. If the answere : is no, then I take it that a vampire with 0 blood cannot use skin of : steel to prevent that vampire from being burned from 1 point of : aggravated damage. A vampire can only pay for a card with blood on it at the time the card is played. If there is not enough blood, the card cannot be played. In your example the vampire would be burned if it did not have another damage prevention card to use. : 2. With regards to damage prevention, can you choose which damage is : being prevented? If a vampire takes 1 aggravated and 1 normal, I know : that the aggravated is applied to the vampire last, but can a skin of : rock prevent the point of aggravated damage? Unless the card specifies, either aggravated or non-aggravated damage may be prevented. And the vampire playing the card chooses which damage to prevent. Any non-prevented damage is then applied non-agg first, then agg. : 3. Ok, there are limitations as to the number of action modifiers, : reactions, and strikes. But a card like Undead Strength is not a : strike. Can 2 Undead Strengths be used in the same combat round for : the same strike? Actually, Undead Strength is a strike, you might be thinking of a different card. Regardless, you are able to play any number of identical cards in a given combat with the following restrictions: Only one strike card may be played per strike dealt (and each strike needs it's own card) You cannot use a press or manuever to counter your own manuever or press. You may only play one card that gives an additional strike in a given round. You may not play more damage prevention cards than you have damage to prevent. If you use a manuever from a strike (gun, thrown gate) then you must use that card for your initial strike. This also means that you may only gain one manuever from strike cards in a given round. : 4. Can the 5th Tradition be used on the acting Vampire? My first : instinct would be no since the acting vampire would spend one blood : and then get it all back as well as the definition of Hospitality. : However, the card itself does not make this restriction. Officially you can use 5th Tradition: Hospitality on the acting vamp. : 5. I do not have the text in front of me, so this question may be not : valid. Ancient Influence is limited in the number of times it can be : played. Can one be played after another one was sucessfully blocked? : Does Using Ancient Influence Cards for extra votes follow the same : restriction? I believe the current ruling is that as soon as someone attempts to call an Ancient Influence vote, no one may attempt to call another one during the game. You can still use it for an additional vote during another political action. : 6. I am sure this would be considered a house rule. Can a vampire with : 0 blood use Restoration instead of the normal hunting restriction? Officially no. I think it should be allowed, and I imagine that some groups have a house rule allowing it. (Mine does not.) : Thank you in advance. : ^ : ^ | ^ : \|/ ha...@shadow.net : <---x---> Scott Marcellus : /|\ http://anshar.shadow.net/~havok : V | V : V You're welcome I hope this helps stephen beaulieu hi...@mail.utexas.edu

Scott Marcellus (ha...@shadow.net) wrote: : I have scanned over the rules and internet and have not found little : about the following. Can someone give me clarification and rule : references to the following questions. I can't get to L. Scott Johnson's webpage (the definitive rules reference page) right now, so I'm going from memory, card texts and the original Jyhad rules here. : 1. Can a vampire use a card that has a cost in blood more than what he : currently possesses or does the vampire go to torpor. If the answere : is no, then I take it that a vampire with 0 blood cannot use skin of : steel to prevent that vampire from being burned from 1 point of : aggravated damage. No, a vampire can NOT use a card which costs more blood than they have. Period. Which means that you CAN'T play skin of steel with the hopes of going to torpor 'cuz you can't pay for it. If you can't pay for it, you can't DO it. : 2. With regards to damage prevention, can you choose which damage is : being prevented? If a vampire takes 1 aggravated and 1 normal, I know : that the aggravated is applied to the vampire last, but can a skin of : rock prevent the point of aggravated damage? You choose which damage to prevent, yes. : 3. Ok, there are limitations as to the number of action modifiers, : reactions, and strikes. But a card like Undead Strength is not a : strike. Can 2 Undead Strengths be used in the same combat round for : the same strike? Um, unless things changed (oi) in V:TES: Undead Strength Combat Potence Normal: Strike: Use your hand or melee weapon at +1 damage. Superior: Strike: use your hand or melee weapon at +2 damage. Artist: Anson Maddocks It _used_ to be a strike, at least... : 4. Can the 5th Tradition be used on the acting Vampire? My first : instinct would be no since the acting vampire would spend one blood : and then get it all back as well as the definition of Hospitality. : However, the card itself does not make this restriction. The current ruling, as I understand it, is that you may use it on the acting Vampire, though many have house rules against this. : 5. I do not have the text in front of me, so this question may be not : valid. Ancient Influence is limited in the number of times it can be : played. Can one be played after another one was sucessfully blocked? : Does Using Ancient Influence Cards for extra votes follow the same : restriction? I believe that it was ruled that using such cards for extra votes did not count as PLAYING them, though having them blocked did. I could very well be wrong... if I were you, I'd wait for a real rulesmonger... : 6. I am sure this would be considered a house rule. Can a vampire with : 0 blood use Restoration instead of the normal hunting restriction? It would DEFINITELY have to be a house rule, since all minions which need to hunt MUST hunt at the BEGINNING of the minion phase, before any other actions are taken. From the original Jyhad rules, section 12.3.1, Minion Actions, Hunt: A ready vampire that begins the minion phase with no blood must hunt as its action, and this action must be taken before any other minion actions are taken. From the V:TES rules, 6.4, Minion Actions, Hunt: Note: An untapped vampire in the active region with no blood must hunt as his next action. This action must occur before any of your other minions take minion phase actions. If more than one of your vampires needs to hunt, you may choose the order in which they hunt, as long as they all hunt. -spongy

ha...@shadow.net (Scott Marcellus) wrote: >1. Can a vampire use a card that has a cost in blood more than what he >currently possesses or does the vampire go to torpor. If the answere >is no, then I take it that a vampire with 0 blood cannot use skin of >steel to prevent that vampire from being burned from 1 point of >aggravated damage. The vampire must have the blood to pay for the card to use it. >2. With regards to damage prevention, can you choose which damage is >being prevented? If a vampire takes 1 aggravated and 1 normal, I know >that the aggravated is applied to the vampire last, but can a skin of >rock prevent the point of aggravated damage? You can choose which damage is prevented. The last bit is for burning purposes in case he could not prevent it. >4. Can the 5th Tradition be used on the acting Vampire? My first >instinct would be no since the acting vampire would spend one blood >and then get it all back as well as the definition of Hospitality. >However, the card itself does not make this restriction. Yes it can be used on the acting vampire. >5. I do not have the text in front of me, so this question may be not >valid. Ancient Influence is limited in the number of times it can be >played. Can one be played after another one was sucessfully blocked? >Does Using Ancient Influence Cards for extra votes follow the same >restriction? If it was blocked then it was never played and so it can be played later. >6. I am sure this would be considered a house rule. Can a vampire with >0 blood use Restoration instead of the normal hunting restriction? No since the first action after untap would be to have your minions hunt if they needed to. Rory

On Fri, 3 May 1996, Scott Marcellus wrote: > > 1. Can a vampire use a card that has a cost in blood more than what he > currently possesses or does the vampire go to torpor. If the answere > is no, then I take it that a vampire with 0 blood cannot use skin of > steel to prevent that vampire from being burned from 1 point of > aggravated damage. Based in common sense: The blood written on the card is a _cost_. So, if I'm unable to pay the cost, I don't get to play the card (the same way that I'm unable to buy a Ferrari (: ). If the blood loss is forced (i.e. damage) the vamp goes to torpor - but only then. > > 2. With regards to damage prevention, can you choose which damage is > being prevented? If a vampire takes 1 aggravated and 1 normal, I know > that the aggravated is applied to the vampire last, but can a skin of > rock prevent the point of aggravated damage? Where is it written that the aggro damage is applied last? You know, I' ve been looking everyhere and haven't found anything about it! If this is so, I believe a 'prevent one damage' card would not save you from torpor... > > 3. Ok, there are limitations as to the number of action modifiers, > reactions, and strikes. But a card like Undead Strength is not a > strike. Can 2 Undead Strengths be used in the same combat round for > the same strike? Oh yes it is! Take a good look : "Strike: Use your...". So, I'm afraid you cannot stack it... > > 4. Can the 5th Tradition be used on the acting Vampire? My first > instinct would be no since the acting vampire would spend one blood > and then get it all back as well as the definition of Hospitality. > However, the card itself does not make this restriction. Well, it's funny that I read somewhere that actions that say 'Requires ready Prince ...' had to be taken by said vampires. Wich, in the case of 5th Trad makes no sense (at least the 1 blood cost). But even disregarding that rule I believe the card can be used on the acting minion. Don't take this for granted, though... > > 5. I do not have the text in front of me, so this question may be not > valid. Ancient Influence is limited in the number of times it can be > played. Can one be played after another one was sucessfully blocked? > Does Using Ancient Influence Cards for extra votes follow the same > restriction? Regarding the first question: I've met the same problem before, and everyone at the table said 'no' (the card *had* been played...), but I'm curious as what everyone's opinios is. Now, since the little green book says that 'when you use a political card to gain a vote you ignore the text that is printed on it', I would say yes, you can burn Ancient Influence to get a vote anytime! > > 6. I am sure this would be considered a house rule. Can a vampire with > 0 blood use Restoration instead of the normal hunting restriction? Well, tracing back to Vampire: the Masquerade, the reason why a vamp must hunt when it has no blood is that nothing else matters to them besides blood. So, I believe they wouldn't have the free will to preform a restoration. Then again, Restoration makes no sense in V:tM, so... :))) *flame* One other thing: if someone intends to reply this, please include my address on the reply, for my newserver tends to 'eat' some of your posts... Thanks! :) David Pontes 8[

I wrote: > >3. Ok, there are limitations as to the number of action modifiers, >reactions, and strikes. But a card like Undead Strength is not a >strike. Can 2 Undead Strengths be used in the same combat round for >the same strike? > oops! Wrong Card! Undead Strength is a strike! I guess I meant something else like lucky blow or Fists of Death which is not a strike card. ^ ^ | ^ \|/ ha...@shadow.net <---x---> Scott Marcellus /|\ http://www.shadow.net/~havok V | V V

Scott Marcellus (ha...@shadow.net) wrote: : >3. Ok, there are limitations as to the number of action modifiers, : >reactions, and strikes. But a card like Undead Strength is not a : >strike. Can 2 Undead Strengths be used in the same combat round for : >the same strike? : > : oops! Wrong Card! Undead Strength is a strike! I guess I meant : something else like lucky blow or Fists of Death which is not a strike : card. Lucky Blow: Card Text Lucky Blow Combat Do not replace until after combat. Strike: Use your hand or melee weapon at +1 damage. ^^^^^^ It's a strike! Fists of Death: Normal: +1 hand damage for the remainder of combat. Only usable at the beginning of a round. Superior: As above, but with +2 hand damage. Now here is one where there could be some stacking questions... I know that we play this card as non-stacking, but I don't know what the actual ruling is... -James

David Pontes <l41...@alfa.ist.utl.pt> writes: > Based in common sense: The blood written on the card is a _cost_. So, >if I'm unable to pay the cost, I don't get to play the card (the same way >that I'm unable to buy a Ferrari (: ). If the blood loss is forced (i.e. >damage) the vamp goes to torpor - but only then. It only goes to torpor if it takes damage in excess of blood. Being forced to lose blood he don't have results in no effect (Cryptic Mission, etc.) >> 2. With regards to damage prevention, can you choose which damage is >> being prevented? If a vampire takes 1 aggravated and 1 normal, I know >> that the aggravated is applied to the vampire last, but can a skin of >> rock prevent the point of aggravated damage? > > Where is it written that the aggro damage is applied last? You >know, I' ve been looking everyhere and haven't found anything about it! >If this is so, I believe a 'prevent one damage' card would not save you >from torpor... It is written in several Rules Team Rulings. When you 'prevent one damage', you choose the damage you wish to prevent. All unprevented damage is then applied - normal first, then aggravated. For a complete break down of the process, see my rules outline, posted one the first of every month, and available from my VtES page: http://www.HomeFree.net/view/page.exe?236 -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Always remember you're unique, http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | just like everyone else. Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |

ha...@shadow.net (Scott Marcellus) writes: >I wrote: >>3. Ok, there are limitations as to the number of action modifiers, >>reactions, and strikes. But a card like Undead Strength is not a >>strike. Can 2 Undead Strengths be used in the same combat round for >>the same strike? >> >oops! Wrong Card! Undead Strength is a strike! I guess I meant >something else like lucky blow or Fists of Death which is not a strike >card. Lucky Blow is also a strike, so no again. Fists of Death *do* stack, however, making them worth their one blood cost over Torn Signpost (which does not stack). [ quoted text not captured ]

James Puzzo (jam...@gw.digibd.com) wrote: : Scott Marcellus (ha...@shadow.net) wrote: : : 1. Can a vampire use a card that has a cost in blood more than what he : : currently possesses or does the vampire go to torpor. If the answere : : is no, then I take it that a vampire with 0 blood cannot use skin of : : steel to prevent that vampire from being burned from 1 point of : : aggravated damage. : No, a vampire can NOT use a card which costs more blood than they have. : Period. Which means that you CAN'T play skin of steel with the hopes of : going to torpor 'cuz you can't pay for it. If you can't pay for it, you : can't DO it. Just to fully clarify this answer... When a card is played that has a greater cost than the vampire has ability to pay, the vampire pays _allm the cost that it is able_ and then the card is burned to no effect. This means that a vampire with protean and only 2 blood _could_ play a Horrific Countenance (cost 4 blood), but the effect would be that 2 blood would be spent and the HC burned. Why would someone ever do this intentionally? Think Fame... Shane H.W. Travis | We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, tra...@duke.usask.ca | but others judge us by what we have already done. Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | -- Longfellow

Shane Travis (tra...@duke.usask.ca) wrote: : When a card is played that has a greater cost than the vampire has ability : to pay, the vampire pays _allm the cost that it is able_ and then the card : is burned to no effect. : : This means that a vampire with protean and only 2 blood _could_ play a : Horrific Countenance (cost 4 blood), but the effect would be that 2 blood : would be spent and the HC burned. Huh? I've never heard of this before... where does this interpretation come from? The rules, a ruling, common sense, etc.? Any info is appreciated... -James

tra...@duke.usask.ca (Shane Travis) writes: >: Scott Marcellus (ha...@shadow.net) wrote: >: : 1. Can a vampire use a card that has a cost in blood more than what he >: : currently possesses or does the vampire go to torpor? >Just to fully clarify this answer... >When a card is played that has a greater cost than the vampire has ability >to pay, the vampire pays _allm the cost that it is able_ and then the card >is burned to no effect. >This means that a vampire with protean and only 2 blood _could_ play a >Horrific Countenance (cost 4 blood), but the effect would be that 2 blood >would be spent and the HC burned. I beleive that this only applies to actions whose cost can no longer be paid (due to the acting vampire having spent blood on some action modifier). In general, you cannot play a card that you can't currently pay for. If, when the time comes to pay the cost, you have been reduced and can no longer pay for the card, then the card is simply burned with no effect. As far as burning any remaining blood, I don't think that that is correct - but it certainly could be. The only instance of burning blood (or pool) when you cannot afford the whole cost is when using Vast Wealth (or Magic of the Smith) to equip "blind". In this case, you pay the cost whether you want to or not when the action is successful. If you cannot pay the pool cost, you are ousted. This ruling only applies to equiping "blind", and not to paying costs in general (or at least that's how I apply it). The ruling gets this special treatment because the cost is unknown at the time the action is attempted. No other actions have this quality. Tom? -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | DejaFu - http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | The feeling that things have Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | been this FU'ed before.

Shane Travis <tra...@duke.usask.ca> wrote: >When a card is played that has a greater cost than the vampire has ability >to pay, the vampire pays _allm the cost that it is able_ and then the card >is burned to no effect. > >This means that a vampire with protean and only 2 blood _could_ play a >Horrific Countenance (cost 4 blood), but the effect would be that 2 blood >would be spent and the HC burned. Where are you getting this from? If a vampire is forced to burn more blood than it has due to penalties (for example, blocking Donal the Exemplary Archon), then it simply burns what it can. But it can't play cards that it can't pay for; you cannot, in general, pay only part of a cost. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

Thomas R Wylie (aa...@cats.ucsc.edu) wrote: : Shane Travis <tra...@duke.usask.ca> wrote: : >When a card is played that has a greater cost than the vampire has ability : >to pay, the vampire pays _all the cost that it is able_ and then the card : >is burned to no effect. : > : >This means that a vampire with protean and only 2 blood _could_ play a : >Horrific Countenance (cost 4 blood), but the effect would be that 2 blood : >would be spent and the HC burned. : Where are you getting this from? If a vampire is forced to burn more blood : than it has due to penalties (for example, blocking Donal the Exemplary : Archon), then it simply burns what it can. But it can't play cards that : it can't pay for; you cannot, in general, pay only part of a cost. I am taking this from the Revised Jyhad Rules (not VTES rules, as I haven't any. If changed, plz. accept apologies.) Section 14. Summary of a Player's Actions [...] 4) If unblocked, the minion's action is successful. The methuselah must them pay any cost associated with the action. If the Methuselah cannot pay the cost, whatever can be paid is paid, and the effects of unpaid cards do not take place. [...] I have always taken this to apply not only to pool costs from the Methuselah but also blood costs from the vampire itself. Thus, the following situation could arise; Gilbert attempts to call a Fourth Tradition, and is intercepted by Anneke with a SMG, itching to destroy an annoying Malkavian. Due to a paucity of stealth cards, Gilbert (who does not want to go to torpor) is forced to tap the Forest of Shadows and pay all his remaining blood to get enough stealth to get away. Anneke can't come upwith any more intercept, so the action is considered 'succcessful'. Now - Gilbert doesn't have enough blood to pay for the Fourth Tradition, so it is burned to no effect. Correct? A logical extension of that is that a vampire can take an action that it doesn't have enough blood to pay for _in the first place_. Example: Anneke, with only two blood, decided to try and slip through a Pulse of the Canaille (cost; 3 blood from vampire). Nobody blocks; action is considered successful, but fulll cost cannot be paid, so card is burned as is 2 blood from Anneke. Pretty damn way to cycle cards, IMHO (a vampire action and all the remaining blood on that vampire), but _not_ illegal, in as far as I understand the rules. Was I not making myself clear, or have I misinterpreted something? [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <4n2d7v$9...@tribune.usask.ca>, tra...@duke.usask.ca (Shane Travis) wrote: > This means that a vampire with protean and only 2 blood _could_ play a > Horrific Countenance (cost 4 blood), but the effect would be that 2 blood > would be spent and the HC burned. > > Why would someone ever do this intentionally? Think Fame... But you would _not_ go to torpor with no blood on you tho.... Although it would be easier that someone send you there. Although if you are doing this legally...eek.. that's _nasty_. tee-hee !! =) Bob rsfa...@mbnet.mb.ca

You cannot play a card or ability without paying the full cost of that card or ability. For example, a vampire with only 1 blood cannot play a card with a blood cost of 2 or more. In the case of action cards, the cost is not actually paid until the action resolves, but you still cannot play a cost that you can't afford. If something happens during the action that prevents you from paying the action's cost when it resolves (for example, a vampire burns too much blood on action modifiers) then the action does nothing, and none of its cost is paid. In the case of search-and-play effects, such as Vast Wealth or Magic of the Smith, the cost of the equipment is not paid unless the action is successful, and you do not have to take that cost into account when checking to see whether you can play the effect. [ quoted text not captured ]

>In the case of action cards, the cost is not actually paid until the action >resolves, but you still cannot play a cost that you can't afford. If something >happens during the action that prevents you from paying the action's cost >when it resolves (for example, a vampire burns too much blood on action >modifiers) then the action does nothing, and none of its cost is paid. So you're saying that if I decide after playing an action that I don't want to really play, I can just spend too much on the action modifiers and then not have to pay for the action? dustin

Rader73 (rad...@aol.com) wrote: : >In the case of action cards, the cost is not actually paid until [ quoted text not captured ] Indeed, he is saying that you can essentially cancel your own action IF you can burn enough blood from the acting minion to not be able to pay the cost. Remember, if you successfully use too much blood on action modifiers, the action is UNSUCCESSFUL, AND you have a weakened minion. -spongy