Watenda: Malkavian, 3 cap, obf, special ablity: Once each combat, Watenda can cancel the effect of a combat card played by an opposing minion by burning an amount of blood equal to the cost of the card. If the card is a strike card, the opposing minion may choose a new strike.
Are there any timing requirements for Watenda to use his special ability? Here's a situation...
Watenda equipped with a Sengir dagger finds himself in combat with Parnassus. Parnassus maneuvers to long range planning to use either Blood Sweat or Taste of Death, while trying to avoid close combat. Watenda does not challenge the range and proceeds to swipe with the dagger. Parnassus usd ToD, at which point Watenda cancels the effect of Parnassus's maneuver.
is this legal, if so...since it was the maneuver which was cancelled and not the strike, does the strike still take place but without any effect to Watenda since it can only be used at long range (assuming that "only usable at long range" doesn't prevent you from playing the card at close range, but just prevents the effect from taking place).
if not, oh well... this justs seems to embody the very essence of the obfuscate capability, i.e., minion thinks he/she is safely at one place at the moment, only to realize afterwards that reality wasn't what (and where) he/she thought it was just a second ago.
Thanks
Setites and Assamites and Tzimisce, oh my!!!
Juicy Red Apple wrote:
>
> Watenda: Malkavian, 3 cap, obf, special ablity: Once each combat, Watenda can cancel the effect of a combat card played by an opposing minion by burning an amount of blood equal to the cost of the card. If the card is a strike card, the opposing minion may choose a new strike.
>
> Are there any timing requirements for Watenda to use his special ability? Here's a situation...
You can only "cancel" a card's effect as that effect takes place.
There is no way to retroactively cancel any effect in VtES.
>
> Watenda equipped with a Sengir dagger finds himself in combat with Parnassus. Parnassus maneuvers to long range planning to use either Blood Sweat or Taste of Death, while trying to avoid close combat. Watenda does not challenge the range and proceeds to swipe with the dagger. Parnassus usd ToD, at which point Watenda cancels the effect of Parnassus's maneuver.
>
> is this legal, if so...since it was the maneuver which was cancelled and not the strike, does the strike still take place but without any effect to Watenda since it can only be used at long range (assuming that "only usable at long range" doesn't prevent you from playing the card at close range, but just prevents the effect from taking place).
Not legal. The maneuver card must be cancelled when it is played,
or not at all.
--
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@regency.wizards.com)
Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
(*) - Subject to review by Rules Team
In article 3344FD...@regency.wizards.com,
[ quoted text not captured ]
Just to be sure, does the canceling of Parnassus's maneuver, function as a counter-maneuver allowing Parnassus's to play another maneuver card
or
since his maneuver was "technically" not challenged, would he be prevented from using any additional maneuvers from combat cards in his controller's hand?
Thanks again
[ quoted text not captured ]
Juicy Red Apple wrote:
> "L. Scott Johnson" <vte...@regency.wizards.com> said:
> >
> >Not legal. The maneuver card must be cancelled when it is played,
> >or not at all.> Just to be sure, does the canceling of Parnassus's maneuver, function as a counter-maneuver allowing Parnassus's to play another maneuver card
>
> or
>
> since his maneuver was "technically" not challenged, would he be prevented from using any additional maneuvers from combat cards in his controller's hand?
Neither, but the former is functionally correct.
Parnassus's maneuver is cancelled. Yet Watenda is not counted
as having maneuvered (Watenda is not prohibited from setting the
range back to long).
Panassus is only prohibited from cancelling his own maneuvers, so is
also free to maneuver.
Effectively, no one has maneuvered.
[ quoted text not captured ]
LSJ says:
>You can only "cancel" a card's effect as that effect takes place.
>There is no way to retroactively cancel any effect in VtES.
I can think of one example, that is if I have my play order correct,
Skin of Steel.
for example, in combat I do one damage with a Magnum, a fortitude vamp
takes 2 points during strike resolution and doesn't play any damage
prevention. I then blur and use glaser rounds, for another 8 pts of
damage, to which they play Skin of Steel at superior and cancel all
damage during this round. They only lose one point during the round of
combat to pay for the Skin of Steel. Thus the original loss of 2 blood
is retroactively cancelled and they get that blood back.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Skin of Steel doesn't retroactively prevent damage. The fortitudinous
vamp has already taken damage during the first strike resolution, and
will only prevent any _further_ damage by playing SoS.
James
--
James E. Hamblin
je...@cornell.edu
"There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the
darkness of the soul that has lost its way. ... Greater than
the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams.
Against this peril we can never surrender."
-- G'Kar, Babylon 5: "Z'ha'dum"
James Hamblin wrote:
>
> Daniel Frey wrote:
> >
> > LSJ says:
> > >You can only "cancel" a card's effect as that effect takes place.
> > >There is no way to retroactively cancel any effect in VtES.
> >
> > I can think of one example, that is if I have my play order correct,
> > Skin of Steel.> Skin of Steel doesn't retroactively prevent damage. The fortitudinous
> vamp has already taken damage during the first strike resolution, and
> will only prevent any _further_ damage by playing SoS.
This is correct. Thanks, James.
[ quoted text not captured ]
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@regency.wizards.com) wrote:
: James Hamblin wrote:
: >
:
: > Skin of Steel doesn't retroactively prevent damage. The fortitudinous: > vamp has already taken damage during the first strike resolution, and
: > will only prevent any _further_ damage by playing SoS.: This is correct. Thanks, James.
This reminds me - It's come up a couple times, and we probably have been
doing it the right way, but I want to make sure. Is it legitimate to play
Skin of Steel when there are no damaging strikes to prevent? Can it be
played at the beginning of a round, before strikes are even declared? It
looks to me like it can, but I can't be sure.
Thanks,
Josh
..that's odd, I seem to be out of witty quotes..
Joshua Duffin wrote:
>
> This reminds me - It's come up a couple times, and we probably have been
> doing it the right way, but I want to make sure. Is it legitimate to play
> Skin of Steel when there are no damaging strikes to prevent? Can it be
> played at the beginning of a round, before strikes are even declared? It
> looks to me like it can, but I can't be sure.
No. and No.
You cannot prevent damage unless there is damage to prevent.
[ quoted text not captured ]
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@regency.wizards.com) wrote:
: Joshua Duffin wrote:
: >
: > This reminds me - It's come up a couple times, and we probably have been
: > doing it the right way, but I want to make sure. Is it legitimate to play
: > Skin of Steel when there are no damaging strikes to prevent? Can it be
: > played at the beginning of a round, before strikes are even declared? It
: > looks to me like it can, but I can't be sure.: No. and No.
: You cannot prevent damage unless there is damage to prevent.
Hmmm. Well, I knew the "no prevention unless there's damage to prevent" rule,
but I wasn't sure how it applied given the wording on Skin of Steel - "prevent
all damage from all strikes this round" doesn't sound like it would have to
require you to be resolving a damaging strike when you play it. But I'll take
your word on that.
What it makes me wonder about now is Skin of Night. The superior version (on
the Jyhad version, I don't know if the wording changed in VtES) is "as above
(ie aggravated damage is treated as regular damage for this vampire for
remainder of round) and prevent 1 damage." Can this be played at superior
if there's not currently damage to prevent? By analogy to Unflinching
Persistence and Skin of Steel, the answer would seem to be no. What if you
had a combat begin due to blocking of a Dawn Operation, and someone played
Weather Control? Is it then "too late" to play Skin of Night? Do you have
to play Skin of Night, and then Weather Control, in order to benefit from
the Skin? Presumably, you can't play a superior Skin of Night at this time
either, as Weather Control specifies that its damage cannot be prevented.
Thanks again,
Josh
...trump card, trump card, trump card, I made it out of clay...
Joshua Duffin wrote:
> L. Scott Johnson (vte...@regency.wizards.com) wrote:
> : You cannot prevent damage unless there is damage to prevent.
>> What it makes me wonder about now is Skin of Night. The superior version (on
> the Jyhad version, I don't know if the wording changed in VtES) is "as above
> (ie aggravated damage is treated as regular damage for this vampire for
> remainder of round) and prevent 1 damage." Can this be played at superior
> if there's not currently damage to prevent? By analogy to Unflinching
> Persistence and Skin of Steel, the answer would seem to be no. What if you
The answer is indeed "No".
> had a combat begin due to blocking of a Dawn Operation, and someone played
> Weather Control? Is it then "too late" to play Skin of Night? Do you have
> to play Skin of Night, and then Weather Control, in order to benefit from
> the Skin? Presumably, you can't play a superior Skin of Night at this time
> either, as Weather Control specifies that its damage cannot be prevented.
You can play Skin of Night to have the damage treated as normal
damage, after the Weather Control is played.
Yes, you cannot play superior Skin of Night, since there is no
damage to prevent (only unpreventable damage).
[ quoted text not captured ]
Jeffrey Endres wrote:
>
> One questions re Watenda's ability that arose in one game where I was
> using him in a weenie Setite S&B deck.
>
> If I use Watenda's ability to cancel a Blur, can the other minion play
> another additional strike card. (Besides Quickness)
>
> The crux of the question is wether or not the additional strike limit
> is tied with the card effect or if it is fact that the card was played
> (and without effect).
Well, AFAIK, the limit is based on effects, not cards. You are limited
to one additional strike effect per round. So if Jacko's additional
strike didn't say that it doesn't count, then you couldn't use it and
play Blur (or if you did play Blur then you couldn't use it).
So, to answer your question, since the effect was canceled and thus
never generated, the Celeritous minion may play another additional
strike card.
L. Scott?
[ quoted text not captured ]
Juicy Red Apple wrote:
>
> Watenda: Malkavian, 3 cap, obf, special ablity: Once each combat,
> Watenda can cancel the effect of a combat card played by an
> opposing minion by burning an amount of blood equal to the cost of the > card. If the card is a strike card, the opposing minion may choose a > new strike.
>
One questions re Watenda's ability that arose in one game where I was
using him in a weenie Setite S&B deck.
If I use Watenda's ability to cancel a Blur, can the other minion play
another additional strike card. (Besides Quickness)
The crux of the question is wether or not the additional strike limit
is tied with the card effect or if it is fact that the card was played
(and without effect).
I think we decided on the later option, since Watenda's text
specifically states that a new strike can be made but not any other
cards. (Note: I didn't use his ability but I was wondering if I might
need to)
Cheers,
--
Jeffrey Endres Undergrad B. Eng (Aerospace Avionics)
Queensland University of Technology
"All human actions are equivalent ... and ...
all are on principle doomed to failure."
Jean-Paul Sartre (Being and Nothingness, Conclusion, sct. 2)
James Hamblin wrote:
>
> Jeffrey Endres wrote:
> >
> > One questions re Watenda's ability that arose in one game where I was
> > using him in a weenie Setite S&B deck.
> >
> > If I use Watenda's ability to cancel a Blur, can the other minion play
> > another additional strike card. (Besides Quickness)
> >
> > The crux of the question is wether or not the additional strike limit
> > is tied with the card effect or if it is fact that the card was played
> > (and without effect).
>> Well, AFAIK, the limit is based on effects, not cards. You are limited
> to one additional strike effect per round. So if Jacko's additional
> strike didn't say that it doesn't count, then you couldn't use it and
> play Blur (or if you did play Blur then you couldn't use it).
>
> So, to answer your question, since the effect was canceled and thus> never generated, the Celeritous minion may play another additional
> strike card.
>
> L. Scott?
Sounds right to me.
Some effects depend on cards "played" (Giant's Blood, repeated action
modifiers, repeated reaction cards, etc.)
Others depend on being used or done (repeat actions, additional strike
gain effects, etc.)
The former are still bound by their restrictions even if the original
card is cancelled. The latter are not.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Robert Goudie wrote:
> L. Scott Johnson wrote:
> > You can play Skin of Night to have the damage treated as normal
> > damage, after the Weather Control is played.
>> I understand that when someone "Chooses a Strike" and then modifies it
> with claws that you have an opportunity to play Skin of Night before the
> damage is actually resolved. This makes sense. Because "Choosing" and
> "Resolving" are seperate phases you can play cards that have a "for the
> remainder of the round" or, to word it another way, "from this point
> forward" at any point up until the "Resolving" begins.
You can also play Skin of Night in response to Dragon Breath Rounds,
which are played during strike resolution. This is because the
application of damage (during damage resolution) is separate from
the resolution of damage. (These are steps V.D.2.b and V.D.2.c of
the outline, respectively, for strike resolution. DBR is played at
step V.D.2.a)
> However, Weather Control resolves immediately. Doesn't the playing of a
> Skin of Night in response to a WC amount to "going back in time" and
> playing a "from this point forward" effect?
Weather Control doesn't deal damage immediately - it sets up an effect
that happens at the beginning of each round. But that's secondary to
the real point:
If the damage were done immediately, you'd still have a chance to play
Skin of Night during the "resolve damage" step. Damage always requires
two steps - one to inflict the damage (the "resolve effect" step) and
one to resolve the damage (heal or pay blood to prevent destruction).
[ quoted text not captured ]
L. Scott Johnson wrote:
> You can play Skin of Night to have the damage treated as normal
> damage, after the Weather Control is played.
Why?
I understand that when someone "Chooses a Strike" and then modifies it
with claws that you have an opportunity to play Skin of Night before the
damage is actually resolved. This makes sense. Because "Choosing" and
"Resolving" are seperate phases you can play cards that have a "for the
remainder of the round" or, to word it another way, "from this point
forward" at any point up until the "Resolving" begins.
However, Weather Control resolves immediately. Doesn't the playing of a
Skin of Night in response to a WC amount to "going back in time" and
playing a "from this point forward" effect?
Splain Lewcee!
- Robert
--
......................................................................
:The opinions expressed here are strictly my own delusional ramblings:
:and do not reflect the opinions of The Walt Disney Company. :
: :
:Robert Goudie robert...@studio.disney.com:
:LA Tourny Info -> http://www.cs.ucr.edu/~ezix/other/rg/vtourn_1.html:
:....................................................................:
:Da pony run, he jump he pitch. He t'row my master in da ditch. :
:He died and da jury wondered why. Da verdict was the blue tail fly.:
:....................................................................: