LSJ: Compel the Spirit/Possession with khazars diary/spell of life?

If a mummy ally brought into play with spell of life is burned, can I use possession or compel the spirit to bring it back to play? And if I can which one, and will it come back as the mummy ally or as the vampire? Same with Khazar's Diary wraiths, which one if either works on them, and will they come back as a wraith or as whatever the card is?

[ quoted text not captured ] Oh I meant Demonic Possession with Khazars diary, can I use that if a wraith ally that was originally a vampire is burned and moved to someone elses ashheap? Its a vampire card that was burned from play since your last turn, even if it wasn't a vampire while in play... and I meant compel the spirit at superior of course, as I figure you can't move a vampire card to your hand.

In message <1192365977.7...@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, Klai...@gmail.com writes: >If a mummy ally brought into play with spell of life is burned, can I >use possession Yes. It's a vampire in the ash heap. Can come back. >or compel the spirit to bring it back to play? No. There's no ally or retainer card in the ash heap to target. The ash heap wipes a card clean. http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/f78c705a8f17df93 *** The ash heap, library, and crypt all "wash" the cards clean (except for a memory of how they got there, in the case of the ash heap and certain retrieval mechanisms). *** Similarly, you can't get Jake Washington back - he's a master card in the ash heap. >And if I >can which one, and will it come back as the mummy ally or as the >vampire? Possession. Vampire. >Same with Khazar's Diary wraiths, which one if either works on them, >and will they come back as a wraith or as whatever the card is? If it's a vampire that's in the ash heap, Possession will work as normal. Compel the Spirit on an ally now in the ash heap? Should have wiped clean, and just be an ally. But I think Compel the Spirit should be playable. An ally burned, there's a corresponding ally card in the ash heap - should be fine. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

James Coupe wrote: > In message <1192365977.7...@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, > Klai...@gmail.com writes: >> If a mummy ally brought into play with spell of life is burned, can I >> use possession > > Yes. It's a vampire in the ash heap. Can come back. > >> or compel the spirit to bring it back to play? > > No. There's no ally or retainer card in the ash heap to target. > > The ash heap wipes a card clean. > > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/f78c705a8f17df93 > *** > The ash heap, library, and crypt all "wash" the cards clean (except > for a memory of how they got there, in the case of the ash heap and > certain retrieval mechanisms). > *** > > > Similarly, you can't get Jake Washington back - he's a master card in > the ash heap. > >> And if I >> can which one, and will it come back as the mummy ally or as the >> vampire? > > Possession. Vampire. Correct. >> Same with Khazar's Diary wraiths, which one if either works on them, >> and will they come back as a wraith or as whatever the card is? > > If it's a vampire that's in the ash heap, Possession will work as > normal. Correct. > Compel the Spirit on an ally now in the ash heap? Should have wiped > clean, and just be an ally. But I think Compel the Spirit should be > playable. An ally burned, there's a corresponding ally card in the ash > heap - should be fine. No. Compel can only "move an ally or retainer that was burned from play since your last turn from your ash heap to your hand" (or to the ready region at superior). The ally in the ash heap is not the one that was burned. The wraith with +1 stealth was the ally that was burned. Similarly, if an Renegade Garou card happens to be used to represent an ghoul in Absimiliard's Army, and that ghoul gets burned, you can't compel the Renegade Garou.

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 12:52:09 -0400, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >> Compel the Spirit on an ally now in the ash heap? Should have wiped >> clean, and just be an ally. But I think Compel the Spirit should be >> playable. An ally burned, there's a corresponding ally card in the ash >> heap - should be fine. > >No. Compel can only "move an ally or retainer that was burned from play since >your last turn from your ash heap to your hand" (or to the ready region at >superior). The ally in the ash heap is not the one that was burned. The wraith >with +1 stealth was the ally that was burned. > >Similarly, if an Renegade Garou card happens to be used to represent an ghoul in >Absimiliard's Army, and that ghoul gets burned, you can't compel the Renegade Garou. if for no other reason than the card being remove from the game once the Absimiliard's Army ghoul is burned.

[ quoted text not captured ] Well, that would certainly explain why no one asked about it before, yep.

[ quoted text not captured ] zing! nice one, shawn. ;) -- salem (replace 'hotmail' with 'yahoo' to email)

On Oct 15, 2:52 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > James Coupe wrote: > > In message <1192365977.747440.278...@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, > > Klaita...@gmail.com writes: > >> If a mummy ally brought into play with spell of life is burned, can I > >> use possession > > > Yes. It's a vampire in the ash heap. Can come back. > > >> or compel the spirit to bring it back to play? > > > No. There's no ally or retainer card in the ash heap to target. > > > The ash heap wipes a card clean. > > >http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/f78c... [ quoted text not captured ] > Absimiliard's Army, and that ghoul gets burned, you can't compel the Renegade Garou.- Hide quoted text - If you use compel the Spirit on a burnt "Reanimated Corpse" and it has a few pathos count still on it, does it stay around until your untap phase? I'm thinking pathos counters are burnt when the Ally burns, Corpse then comes into play then burns straight away. But I'm hoping I'm wrong.

[ quoted text not captured ] You're kind of right. It does't 'work', but the reasonas are a bit different to what you state in their specifics. From the rulebook: Burn: When a card is "burned," it is placed into its owner's discard pile (the discard pile is called the "ash heap" for this reason). [snip] When a counter is "burned," it is returned to the blood bank [snip] When a card is burned or removed from the game, any counters or other cards on it are burned. And thus when Reanimated Corpse goes to the ash heap, all it's pathos counters are burned. Then when it enters play, it is Removed from the Game (from it's text "Remove the corpse from the game if it has no pathos counters"), not burned again. [ quoted text not captured ]

Salem wrote: > angus_th...@hotmail.com wrote: [unused context snipped --- please quote responsibly] >> If you use compel the Spirit on a burnt "Reanimated Corpse" and it has >> a few pathos count still on it, does it stay around until your untap >> phase? I'm thinking pathos counters are burnt when the Ally burns, >> Corpse then comes into play then burns straight away. But I'm hoping >> I'm wrong. > > You're kind of right. It does't 'work', but the reasonas are a bit > different to what you state in their specifics. > > From the rulebook: > > Burn: When a card is "burned," it is placed into its owner's discard > pile (the discard pile is called the "ash heap" for this reason). > [snip] > When a counter is "burned," it is returned to the blood bank > [snip] > When a card is burned or removed from the game, any counters or other > cards on it are burned. > > > And thus when Reanimated Corpse goes to the ash heap, all it's pathos > counters are burned. Correct. > Then when it enters play, it is Removed from the > Game (from it's text "Remove the corpse from the game if it has no > pathos counters"), not burned again. Correct. It gains X more Pathos counters when it enters play by its own card text (just like a Compelled War Ghoul would require you to burn a retainer or ally), but X is zero in this case, so gaining those zero counters doesn't really help.