Malkavian Dementia and untap phases..

Greetings ;) I am wondering if anyone might know the answer to a question floating around in my coterie currently. If you 'borrow' someone's Malkavian vampire via the master card 'Malkavian Dementia': (Card text: Master. You control a ready Malkavian that another Methuselah controls until your next untap phase.) Do you have to untap it before handing it back? Can you choose what part of the overall untap phase you untap the cards? Can you choose to hand it back untapped to them (and they then need to untap it in -their- untap phase) and then untap all your cards straight after or do you need to untap everything -before- handing the vampire back to them? Thanks in advance for any answers :) Simidh: V:EKN Prince Of Adelaide __ __ ,-~_~, __ ,-._______.-.___.----------' '--~~ ~~ (___\`, (__ . _ _ . __/ )_ ',_.-------._.---.__________ __ ) __)( / ) )( (_/ / ) `--' ~~--~~,(~_~/,' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Email: sim...@vampire.tne.net.au ~---' URL: vampire.tne.net.au If the above picture looks a jumble, you probably didn't read this email in a proportional font >;-<=

> master card 'Malkavian Dementia': > (Card text: Master. You control a ready Malkavian that another Methuselah > controls until your next untap phase.) > Do you have to untap it before handing it back? Yes. > Can you choose what part of the overall untap phase you untap the cards? No. The very first thing that happens during your untap phase is untapping the cards. You can order everything else that happens during your untap phase any way you want - but the untapping must happen first. > Can you choose to hand it back untapped to them (and they then need to untap > it in -their- untap phase) and then untap all your cards straight after or do > you need to untap everything -before- handing the vampire back to them? Everything untaps at the same time. > Thanks in advance for any answers :) np. Sorrow

In article <MYHL3.6207$dB1....@dfw-read.news.verio.net>, "Sorrow" <cbo...@apdi.net> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Ok, player B steals your Malk, you steal it back during your next master phase (I don't know why, its a Malk deck) Does it go back to player B during you next untap and wait and bounce back their next untap or try to go back and relise player B does not control it any more and come back straight back to you??? (since it has passed their next untap) Player A Player B Malk Untap Malk Dem (1) Untap Malk Dem (2) Untap when Malk Dem (1) should wear off. Untap when Malk Dem (2) wears off. Malk? Malk? -- Giving money and power Michael F. Tomkins to Government is like m.to...@student.canberra.edu.au giving whiskey and fast University of Canberra, Australia. cars to teenage boys. http://blitzen.canberra.edu.au/~bahkyp/

Sorrow wrote: > > > master card 'Malkavian Dementia': > > (Card text: Master. You control a ready Malkavian that another Methuselah > > controls until your next untap phase.) > > Do you have to untap it before handing it back? > > Yes. No, you can't untap it before handing it back. > > Can you choose what part of the overall untap phase you untap the cards? > > No. The very first thing that happens during your untap phase is > untapping the cards. You can order everything else that happens > during your untap phase any way you want - but the untapping must > happen first. But, by the time you start untapping all of your cards, you no longer control the Malk (card text: "Take control of <Malk> until your next untap phase"). So he doesn't get untapped (since that happens during your untap phase). > > Can you choose to hand it back untapped to them (and they then need to > untap > > it in -their- untap phase) and then untap all your cards straight after or > do > > you need to untap everything -before- handing the vampire back to them? > > Everything untaps at the same time. Correct: Everything you control untaps at the same time. But, since you no longer control the Malk, you don't/can't untap him. -- LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) V:TES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/rules.asp

"Michael F. Tomkins" wrote: > Ok, player B steals your Malk, you steal it back during your next master > phase (I don't know why, its a Malk deck) > > Does it go back to player B during you next untap and wait and bounce back > their next untap or try to go back and relise player B does not control it > any more and come back straight back to you??? (since it has passed their > next untap) Try thinking about these temporary-control effects as layering effects (layered on the base "permanent" control). > Player A Player B > Malk At this point, there is only the base control: Malk: [Base: Controlled by A] > Untap > Malk Dem (1) Now there's an "until B's untap" control effect layered on the Malk: Malk: [Controlled by A] <Controlled by B until B's next Untap> The last (most recent) layer has precedence. > Untap > Malk Dem (2) Malk: [Base: Controlled by A] <1: Controlled by B until B's next Untap> <2: Controlled by A until A's next Untap> > Untap when Malk Dem (1) should wear off. Effect 1 wears off when B's untap phase is reached. Malk: [Base: Controlled by A] <2: Controlled by A until A's next Untap> So A has temporary control of the Malk until his next untap phase (at which time her own permenent control will take over). > Untap when Malk Dem (2) wears off. Effect 2 wears off when A's untap phase is reached. Malk: [Base: Controlled by A] So A resumes her permanent control of the Malk. [ quoted text not captured ]