rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Hell Hounds with a Zip Gun

19 messages from 11 participants · 02 May 1995 – 11 May 1995
original thread on Google Groups

Owen Reynolds

The heading pretty much says it all. Is this a great idea or what? Zip guns are combat cards, so can be played on the Hounds and then kept (the 'Hounds don't say they can't use equipment, just that they can't take an equip/get equipment action.) They back off, take 1 damage from the gun out of 2, and heal the point. If you play Dragon's Breath on them, you can even argue that it's realistic (don't all Hell Hounds exhale flames?)

Harpua

In article <reynolds....@shazam.cs.iastate.edu>, reyn...@cs.iastate.edu (Owen Reynolds) wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] i think this is one of the funniest posts i have ever read, but it makes perfect sense to me. maybe if i had a hell hound, i'd try it. harpua

Alan Chung

Owen Reynolds (reyn...@cs.iastate.edu) wrote: : The heading pretty much says it all. Is this a great idea or what? : Zip guns are combat cards, so can be played on the Hounds and then kept : (the 'Hounds don't say they can't use equipment, just that they can't : take an equip/get equipment action.) : They back off, take 1 damage from the gun out of 2, and heal the : point. If you play Dragon's Breath on them, you can even argue that it's : realistic (don't all Hell Hounds exhale flames?) Hi all, I just recently played a couple games of Jyhad and got the combo to work. My Hell Hound was feared as he pulled the Zip Gun and fired Dragon Breath Rounds. It was great!!! So much fun... =) -Alan Chung ach...@acs.bu.edu ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ [ "While it's true most Dragons are | "We are many wicks sharing a ] [ cruel, the Shivan Dragon seems to | common tallow; we feed the skies ] [ take particular glee in the misery of | with the ashes of our prey." ] [ others, often tormenting its victims | "Must not all things at the last ] [ much like a cat plays with a mouse | be swallowed up in death?" ] [ before delivering the final blow." | -Plato ] ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Alan Kwan

In article <3o9ker$c...@news.bu.edu> ach...@bu.edu (Alan Chung) writes: >Owen Reynolds (reyn...@cs.iastate.edu) wrote: >: The heading pretty much says it all. Is this a great idea or what? >: Zip guns are combat cards, so can be played on the Hounds and then kept >: (the 'Hounds don't say they can't use equipment, just that they can't >: take an equip/get equipment action.) >: They back off, take 1 damage from the gun out of 2, and heal the >: point. If you play Dragon's Breath on them, you can even argue that it's >: realistic (don't all Hell Hounds exhale flames?) >I just recently played a couple games of Jyhad and got the combo to work. >My Hell Hound was feared as he pulled the Zip Gun and fired Dragon Breath >Rounds. It was great!!! So much fun... =) The key to the effectiveness of this combo is Zip Gun + DB Rounds, and has little to do with the Hell Hound. The Hell Hound + Zip Gun combo is not a good combo. Hell Hound is over-priced (at 2 pool) wallpaper. With Zip Gun, it recovers to (at most) average value, but it's better to not use the Hell Hound at all (so you don't have to worry about having to draw a second card for an `average' combo). If your group allows you to use Zip Gun + DB Rounds, by all means stack your deck with these 2 cards (15% Zip Guns and 15% DB Rounds). Don't bother with the Hell Hounds. -- "Live Life with Heart." Alan Kwan kw...@cs.cornell.edu

fs...@aurora.alaska.edu

(Alan Chung) writes: Owen Reynolds (reyn...@cs.iastate.edu) wrote: The heading pretty much says it all. Is this a great idea or what? Zip guns are combat cards, so can be played on the Hounds and then kept (the 'Hounds don't say they can't use equipment, just that they can't take an equip/get equipment action.) They back off, take 1 damage from the gun out of 2, and heal the point. If you play Dragon's Breath on them, you can even argue that it's realistic (don't all Hell Hounds exhale flames?) Hi all, I just recently played a couple games of Jyhad and got the combo to work. My Hell Hound was feared as he pulled the Zip Gun and fired Dragon Breath Rounds. It was great!!! So much fun... =) -Alan Chung ach...@acs.bu.edu this is f---ing brilliant! yay! I hope no spoilsport rules against this. hellhounds have clever paws. marion -- There was a swirling mass of water that lived in a quiet pond, which asked permission of its master to visit all the lands beyond. And its master allowed it to fly, so the wind swept the whirlpool across the sky. The whirlpool's mother wore a jacket she'd sewn out of dental floss. It was stolen by a monkey who sold it to an albatross. And it had the idea to fly, so the wind swept the whirlpool across the sky.

Al Orion

An interesting idea! I will have to try this sometime. Thanks for the idea!

James R. McClure Jr.

kw...@cs.cornell.edu (Alan Kwan) wrote: > The Hell Hound + Zip Gun combo is not a good combo. Hell Hound > is over-priced (at 2 pool) wallpaper. With Zip Gun, it recovers > to (at most) average value, but it's better to not use the Hell Hound > at all (so you don't have to worry about having to draw a second > card for an `average' combo). Peace Alan, FWIW, I disagree with your 'appreciation' of the efficiency of the Hell Hound. It is a good card. [speaking as someone who puts Loyal Street Gang in his Brujah deck just for blocking] Hell Hound can block an "infinite" number of bleed without using any additional cards. Most combats only cause one damage to each combatant. The Hell Hound recovers that for free and is ready for more. No, HH isn't Ivory Bow (which should cost 2) or Thadius Zho (who does cost 4 and doesn't regen), but it is a good card. > If your group allows you to use Zip Gun + DB Rounds, by all means > stack your deck with these 2 cards (15% Zip Guns and 15% DB Rounds). > Don't bother with the Hell Hounds. I completely agree, Alan, this is very munchkin. Nil carborundum illigitimi, James R. McClure Jr. The OS/2 Apostle <insert disclaimer here>

Owen Reynolds

>>: The heading pretty much says it all. Is this a great idea or what? >>: Zip guns are combat cards, so can be played on the Hounds and then kept >>: (the 'Hounds don't say they can't use equipment, just that they can't >>: take an equip/get equipment action.) >>: They back off, take 1 damage from the gun out of 2, and heal the >>: point. If you play Dragon's Breath on them, you can even argue that it's >>: realistic (don't all Hell Hounds exhale flames?) >The key to the effectiveness of this combo is Zip Gun + DB Rounds, >and has little to do with the Hell Hound. >The Hell Hound + Zip Gun combo is not a good combo. Hell Hound >is over-priced (at 2 pool) wallpaper. With Zip Gun, it recovers >to (at most) average value, but it's better to not use the Hell Hound >at all (so you don't have to worry about having to draw a second >card for an `average' combo). I agree completely. What got me thinking was "How can I use the damn Hell Hound?" Even a loyal street gang can do Computer Hacking, grab IR goggles and Grenades for free, etc... . The Hound just sits there waiting for someone to play Lucky Blow and kill it. In some imaginary deck with lots of Zip Guns in it (maybe a Celerity/Gun/Ammo deck where the Zippers are to insure anyone can get a gun) I'd almost feel OK about using a Hell Hound. He's much less likely to get splatted standing at long range. Of course, I'd also like to lobby for the house rule -- no Zippers and DBR's _except_ on a Hell Hound. Actually, as I recall, DBR's were only shotgun shells and had a fairly short (10 yards?) range, for real.

Alan Kwan

The Hell Hound may be a good card in a game with a table of newbis, but how often do you see real players basing his strategy on 0-stealth bleeds with 1-damage combat when blocked? Hell Hound can't block .44 . Can't block S&B. Can't block Celerity, Potence, Thamataurgy, Lucky Blow, ... If Hellhound has 4 life + 1 regen. for 2 pool, I'll use it. 2 life is too easily fried in one shot, before it can ever use its regeneration ability. In article <3olfne$7...@hermes.louisville.edu> "James R. McClure Jr." <jrmc...@ulkyvm.louisville.edu> writes: >kw...@cs.cornell.edu (Alan Kwan) wrote: >> The Hell Hound + Zip Gun combo is not a good combo. Hell Hound >> is over-priced (at 2 pool) wallpaper. With Zip Gun, it recovers >> to (at most) average value, but it's better to not use the Hell Hound >> at all (so you don't have to worry about having to draw a second >> card for an `average' combo). >FWIW, I disagree with your 'appreciation' of the efficiency of the Hell Hound. >It is a good card. [speaking as someone who puts Loyal Street Gang in his >Brujah deck just for blocking] Hell Hound can block an "infinite" number of >bleed without using any additional cards. Most combats only cause one damage >to each combatant. The Hell Hound recovers that for free and is ready for >more. -- [ quoted text not captured ]

Charles Richard Robb

Alan Kwan (kw...@cs.cornell.edu) wrote: : The Hell Hound may be a good card in a game with a table of : newbis, but how often do you see real players basing his strategy : on 0-stealth bleeds with 1-damage combat when blocked? : Hell Hound can't block .44 . Can't block S&B. Can't block : Celerity, Potence, Thamataurgy, Lucky Blow, ... The HH is a good blocker when you stop +1 stealth with Radio Station and then use Zip/DBR....

Joseph Cochran

In article <3oqgoa$j...@hermes.louisville.edu>, James R. McClure Jr. <jrmc...@ulkyvm.louisville.edu> wrote: >If you look at it that way, then all the Brujah allies stink. LSG is Well, yeah, they do stink. I only use them as fodder when my opponent is trying presence bleeds. Other times I keep a Brujah ready to deal with incoming minions. But when the conditions are right to allow me to use my HH/Brujah fodder, it's a way for me to tap out all my "real" minions and try for the oust of my prey. In that respect, they're not bad at all. But they really are very limited in usefulness. They're almost more interesting for atmosphere than for gameplay. | If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--* | PC game, call the announce line at | js...@vt.edu | ** csi...@discus.ise.vt.edu ** | +-------------------------------------+---------------------------------- "Carnivores, oy!" -- Timon, TLK

James R. McClure Jr.

kw...@cs.cornell.edu (Alan Kwan) wrote: > The Hell Hound may be a good card in a game with a table of > newbis, but how often do you see real players basing his strategy > on 0-stealth bleeds with 1-damage combat when blocked? > > Hell Hound can't block .44 . Can't block S&B. Can't block > Celerity, Potence, Thamataurgy, Lucky Blow, ... > > If Hellhound has 4 life + 1 regen. for 2 pool, I'll use it. > 2 life is too easily fried in one shot, before it can ever use > its regeneration ability. Peace Alan, If you look at it that way, then all the Brujah allies stink. LSG is less effective that HH (it doesn't regen). Yes, you can equip them or CompHack with them, but why are you CHing with LSG vs. your vamp minions anyway? [ quoted text not captured ]

Charles Richard Robb

L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu) wrote: : jac...@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Mr JA Chapman) writes: : >And even more munchkin . Assuming concealed weapon gets changed to no skill , : >does this mean we'll be seeing hellhounds with .44's (cant remember if CW : >lets you equip as action during combat or if you just get the gun) : > i hope not JA Chapman : I beleive HH says "Can't use Equipment", and the munchkins here get around : that by noting that the Zip Gun (tho described as being kept "as normal : equipment" on the Zip card) is only a combat card, and therefore, somehow, : not really equipment. HH says: "2 Life, 1 Damage, 0 Bleed Hell hound can take no actions, only block. If Hell Hound has only one life during untap, it gets a second life from the blood bank." Therefore it CAN use zip guns. That's the ONLY thing it'll ever get...

Charles Richard Robb

Joseph Cochran (js...@discus.ise.vt.edu) wrote: : In article <3otj6t$m...@redwood.cs.scarolina.edu>, : L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote: : >I beleive HH says "Can't use Equipment", and the munchkins here get around : >that by noting that the Zip Gun (tho described as being kept "as normal : >equipment" on the Zip card) is only a combat card, and therefore, somehow, : >not really equipment. : Nope. HH says "Can take no actions, only block." There is no : further restriction on him. Zip Gun gets around it because it does not : take an action to equip it. : Concealed Weapon without a discipline is also not an action : (although it does say "equip a minion" on it), so it could also be : interpreted as legal for the HH. You need Obfuscate to do Concealed Weapon, which the Hell Hound does not have,,,,

L. Scott Johnson

In article <3otq92$i...@nntp.msstate.edu>, [ quoted text not captured ] You don't need Obfuscate to use "Concealed Weapon without a discipline" - since by definition, it doesn't need obfuscate (which is a discipline). Officially, Concealed Weapon has a discipline. But, everyone here know that Concealed Weapon doesn't realy require anything - the card even says "minion" - when it (officially) should've said "vampire". See the house rules list for more ways to play other cards properly as opposed to officially. FWIW: LSJ, CSA, JHJ, JC, SHWT, JF, ASHK, and JRM all agree that Concealed Weapon is better played as not requiring Obfuscate. And no one actively *opposes* the idea, even though some don't play with the house rule. (For whatever reason). -- ----- L. Scott Johnson (lsc...@crl.com) | The opinions expressed are mine Graphics Specialist and Jyhad Rulemonger | and subject to card text

L. Scott Johnson

jac...@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Mr JA Chapman) writes: >And even more munchkin . Assuming concealed weapon gets changed to no skill , >does this mean we'll be seeing hellhounds with .44's (cant remember if CW >lets you equip as action during combat or if you just get the gun) > i hope not JA Chapman I beleive HH says "Can't use Equipment", and the munchkins here get around that by noting that the Zip Gun (tho described as being kept "as normal equipment" on the Zip card) is only a combat card, and therefore, somehow, not really equipment. The DT, enjoying such counter-logical munchkinings, would probably agree. (I haven't seen any official word on the obvious equip-ness of the Zip Gun). -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu) | These opinions are mine and Graphics Specialist and Jyhad Rulemonger. | are subject to card text.

Mr JA Chapman

James R. McClure Jr. (jrmc...@ulkyvm.louisville.edu) wrote: : kw...@cs.cornell.edu (Alan Kwan) wrote: : > The Hell Hound + Zip Gun combo is not a good combo. Hell Hound : > is over-priced (at 2 pool) wallpaper. With Zip Gun, it recovers : > to (at most) average value, but it's better to not use the Hell Hound : > at all (so you don't have to worry about having to draw a second : > card for an `average' combo). : Peace Alan, :FWIW,I disagree with your 'appreciation' of the efficiency of the Hell Hound. :It is a good card. [speaking as someone who puts Loyal Street Gang in his :Brujah deck just for blocking] Hell Hound can block an "infinite" number of :bleed without using any additional cards. Most combats only cause one damage :to each combatant. The Hell Hound recovers that for free and is ready for :more. No, HH isn't Ivory Bow (which should cost 2) or Thadius Zho (who does :cost 4 and doesn't regen), but it is a good card. : > If your group allows you to use Zip Gun + DB Rounds, by all means : > stack your deck with these 2 cards (15% Zip Guns and 15% DB Rounds). : > Don't bother with the Hell Hounds. : I completely agree, Alan, this is very munchkin. : Nil carborundum illigitimi, : James R. McClure Jr. : The OS/2 Apostle And even more munchkin . Assuming concealed weapon gets changed to no skill , [ quoted text not captured ]

Joseph Cochran

In article <3otj6t$m...@redwood.cs.scarolina.edu>, L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote: >I beleive HH says "Can't use Equipment", and the munchkins here get around >that by noting that the Zip Gun (tho described as being kept "as normal >equipment" on the Zip card) is only a combat card, and therefore, somehow, >not really equipment. Nope. HH says "Can take no actions, only block." There is no further restriction on him. Zip Gun gets around it because it does not take an action to equip it. Concealed Weapon without a discipline is also not an action (although it does say "equip a minion" on it), so it could also be interpreted as legal for the HH. | If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--* | PC game, call the announce line at | js...@vt.edu | ** csi...@discus.ise.vt.edu ** | +-------------------------------------+---------------------------------- "There. That should do nicely. After all, we don't want the locals to see grannies clipped to trash bins by their teeth, do we?" -- The MAXX

L. Scott Johnson

In article <3otms6$5...@solaris.cc.vt.edu>, Joseph Cochran <js...@discus.ise.vt.edu> wrote: >In article <3otj6t$m...@redwood.cs.scarolina.edu>, >L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote: >>I beleive HH says "Can't use Equipment", and the munchkins here get around >>that by noting that the Zip Gun (tho described as being kept "as normal >>equipment" on the Zip card) is only a combat card, and therefore, somehow, >>not really equipment. > > Nope. HH says "Can take no actions, only block." There is no >further restriction on him. Zip Gun gets around it because it does not >take an action to equip it. Ah. So that's why the interest in the Zipper. Thanks for the info. (I wish I had more of these odd cards :-) > Concealed Weapon without a discipline is also not an action >(although it does say "equip a minion" on it), so it could also be >interpreted as legal for the HH. Certainly. [ quoted text not captured ]