rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

[LSJ] Mask/Aching Beauty for the 1001st time...

12 messages from 7 participants · 05 May 2003 – 06 May 2003
original thread on Google Groups

Alex Broadhead

Howdy, Two questions, one for my benefit, the other for the benefit of my playgroup (I'm pretty sure I already know the right answer to the latter): 1) Aching Beauty A, with superior OBF, attempts to bleed and is blocked. 2) Doubly Aching Beauty B, with inferior OBF, plays Mask of a Thousand Faces (Mo1kF) at inferior and takes over the action. 3) Aching Beauty A then plays Mo1kF at superior, retaking over the action, which is too stealthy for the blocking Methuselah's minions, and so is not blocked. Question 1 (for the group): Can you play an action modifier (e.g. Mo1kF) after being blocked? I.e., is step 2 above legal? I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to. Up until step 3 above, I think I know how everything works - the blocking minion's Methuselah will lose 3 pool for blocking both vampires (and she may not rescind her block). Once step 3 occurs, though, I'm not sure what happens. Question 2 (for me): At the end of the chain of events above, how many pool will the blocking minion's Methuselah have burned (not including the bleed)? I can see cases for both 0 and 3 pool, but I'm betting on 0, as it is effectively as if the 'true' acting minion was not blocked. Oh, and just to be sure, if the last play of Mo1kF was at inferior, the total loss to Aching Beauty would be 4, right? Or would it still be 3? (I.e. does blocking the 'same' minion twice count twice?) Thanks, Alex

LSJ

Alex Broadhead wrote: > Howdy, > > Two questions, one for my benefit, the other for the benefit of my > playgroup (I'm pretty sure I already know the right answer to the > latter): > > 1) Aching Beauty A, with superior OBF, attempts to bleed and is > blocked. > 2) Doubly Aching Beauty B, with inferior OBF, plays Mask of a > Thousand Faces (Mo1kF) at inferior and takes over the action. > 3) Aching Beauty A then plays Mo1kF at superior, retaking over the > action, which is too stealthy for the blocking Methuselah's minions, > and so is not blocked. > > Question 1 (for the group): Can you play an action modifier (e.g. > Mo1kF) after being blocked? I.e., is step 2 above legal? I see no > reason why you shouldn't be able to. Yes. > Up until step 3 above, I think I know how everything works - the > blocking minion's Methuselah will lose 3 pool for blocking both > vampires (and she may not rescind her block). Correct. > Once step 3 occurs, though, I'm not sure what happens. Not legal. Cannot add stealth after the block is successful (except by effects which also continue the action as if unblocked). > Question 2 (for me): At the end of the chain of events above, how > many pool will the blocking minion's Methuselah have burned (not > including the bleed)? I can see cases for both 0 and 3 pool, but I'm > betting on 0, as it is effectively as if the 'true' acting minion was > not blocked. > > Oh, and just to be sure, if the last play of Mo1kF was at inferior, > the total loss to Aching Beauty would be 4, right? Or would it still > be 3? (I.e. does blocking the 'same' minion twice count twice?) Still 3. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

wolflord

[ quoted text not captured ] Hi there, Having severe trouble grasping this concept here: How can you possibly get into a situation where you lose pool from Aching Beauty-ed vamps being blocked, if then afterwards they still stealth past you?? Meaning:I would think the "being blocked" status of the action isn't determined untill it's over? Hence, if the second MoTF makes it stealth past the blockers, the action is succesful and wouldn't make you lose pool from AB?? Confusedly awaiting your answer.. Jo

Kulaid

>>> 1) Aching Beauty A, with superior OBF, attempts to bleed and is >>> blocked. >>> 2) Doubly Aching Beauty B, with inferior OBF, plays Mask of a >>> Thousand Faces (Mo1kF) at inferior and takes over the action. >>> 3) Aching Beauty A then plays Mo1kF at superior, retaking over the >>> action, which is too stealthy for the blocking >>> Methuselah's minions, >>> and so is not blocked. >>> Can Aching Beauty A(From now on Vamp A) play Mo1kF? Isn't that an action modifier played this vampire can't play? Mask of a Thousand Faces [Jyhad, V:TES, CE] Cardtype: Action Modifier Discipline: Obfuscate Only usable by a ready, untapped vampire other than the acting minion who is capable of performing the action. Not usable if any action modifiers have been played that could not have been played if this vampire were the acting vampire. [obf] Untap the acting minion and tap this vampire instead. Now this vampire is the acting minion. The action resumes where it left off. [OBF] As above, with +1 stealth. Err, I thought a third minion can't play Mo1kF because this minion can only play Mo1kF only if he is able to take the action and play all the action modifier as if were the acting minion. But since Mo1kF is only usable if your 'NOT' the acting minion, and double Mo1kF would make the first Mo1kF an action modifier third minion can't play if the third minion was the action minion. Vamp A couldn't play all the action modifier already played during this action, so he can't be masked too. God, this paragraph sounds repeative... -- Direct access to this group with http://web2news.com http://web2news.com/?rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

LSJ

wolflord wrote: >>Not legal. Cannot add stealth after the block is successful (except >>by effects which also continue the action as if unblocked). [...] > Having severe trouble grasping this concept here: > How can you possibly get into a situation where you lose pool from > Aching Beauty-ed vamps being blocked, if then afterwards they still > stealth past you?? You can't. See above. Depending on how loose your definition of "stealth past you" is, it might be possible with Form of Mist in the resulting combat (or similar), but that isn't "stealthing past you" in my book. > Meaning:I would think the "being blocked" status of the action isn't > determined untill it's over? It is determined when the acting minion's controller declares "block successful" (i.e., no more stealth). > Hence, if the second MoTF makes it stealth past the blockers, the > action is succesful and wouldn't make you lose pool from AB?? If the acting minion's controller has already announce that the block is successful, as in the example given, this means that he chooses not to stealth past the blockers. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ

Kulaid wrote: > Can Aching Beauty A(From now on Vamp A) play Mo1kF? Isn't that an > action modifier played this vampire can't play? If he has obfuscate and is not the acting minion and hasn't played Mo1kF before in this action, he can play it. > Err, I thought a third minion can't play Mo1kF because this minion can > only play Mo1kF only if he is able to take the action and play all the > action modifier as if were the acting minion. But since Mo1kF is only > usable if your 'NOT' the acting minion, and double Mo1kF would make the > first Mo1kF an action modifier third minion can't play if the third > minion was the action minion. Vamp A couldn't play all the action > modifier already played during this action, so he can't be masked too. > God, this paragraph sounds repeative... Vamp A: announce action. Status: A-acting. B-nonacting. Vamp B: Mask the action. Status: A-nonacting. B-acting. At this point, A can play Mask because: 1) A has obfuscate 2) A is not the acting minion 3) There have been no modifiers played that couldn't have been played if A were the acting minion. 4) A hasn't played Mask before in this action [ quoted text not captured ]

Emmit Svenson

jo.her...@sca.com (wolflord) wrote in message news:<88f9561d.03050...@posting.google.com>... > How can you possibly get into a situation where you lose pool from > Aching Beauty-ed vamps being blocked, if then afterwards they still > stealth past you?? You can't. LSJ just said that. You can't add stealth after being blocked. > Hence, if the second MoTF makes it stealth past the blockers, the > action is succesful and wouldn't make you lose pool from AB?? The action is blocked. The acting minions cannot add stealth, but can swap around via inferior Mo1KF, causing you to lose pool to AB.

Emmit Svenson

"Kulaid" <kulaid.ne...@web2news.net> wrote in message news:<2883...@web2news.com>... > Err, I thought a third minion can't play Mo1kF because this minion can > only play Mo1kF only if he is able to take the action and play all the > action modifier as if were the acting minion. But since Mo1kF is only > usable if your 'NOT' the acting minion, and double Mo1kF would make the > first Mo1kF an action modifier third minion can't play if the third > minion was the action minion. Vamp A couldn't play all the action > modifier already played during this action, so he can't be masked too. > God, this paragraph sounds repeative... Once another minion has played Mo1KF, it is the acting minion, freeing the first minion, and second, third, etc. minions, to play Mo1KF. Note that no minion may play Mo1KF a second time during the action, however.

John Flournoy

> If the acting minion's controller has already announce that the > block is successful, as in the example given, this means that > he chooses not to stealth past the blockers. Here's a follow-up question(s): Vamp A plays Blood Bond on a prey's vampire (Vamp X). New turn: Vamp B bleeds, is blocked by Vamp X, and the block is announced as successful. Vamp A Mask1000Faces the action to become the acting vampire. Is Vamp A blocked? If Vamp A has an Aching Beauty, does it activate? -John Flournoy

LSJ

John Flournoy wrote: > Vamp A plays Blood Bond on a prey's vampire (Vamp X). > New turn: > Vamp B bleeds, is blocked by Vamp X, and the block is announced as successful. > Vamp A Mask1000Faces the action to become the acting vampire. > Is Vamp A blocked? If Vamp A has an Aching Beauty, does it activate? Yes. Yes. [ quoted text not captured ]

Kulaid

[ quoted text not captured ] Here's my arguement... One of the modifiers that was played was Mask, and for Vamp A to take over the action he has to be able to play Mask(an action modifier) as if he was the acting vampire. An acting vampire can't play Mask at all... So he can't take over the action? > 4) A hasn't played Mask before in this action -- [ quoted text not captured ]

Gomi no Sensei

In article <2903...@web2news.com>, Kulaid <kulaid.ne...@web2news.net> wrote: >Here's my arguement... One of the modifiers that was played was Mask, >and for Vamp A to take over the action he has to be able to play Mask(an >action modifier) as if he was the acting vampire. An acting vampire >can't play Mask at all... So he can't take over the action? The relevant text reads 'Not usable if any action modifiers have been played that could not have been played if this vampire were the acting vampire.' Mask could have been played if A were the acting vampire -- and was, in the example. It doesn't say 'could not have been played BY THIS VAMPIRE,' it just says 'could not have been played'. So masking back to A is perfectly fine. paul e. -- Your mama's gonna take it hard You always were your mama's boy You're lying in the graveyard Now you're not your mama's joy