A Silly Question About Disciplines

I'm wondering - is the list of disciplines printed on rules cards (and possibly in the rulebook? I don't have one handy to check if it's printed there) an exclusive list? If I have an effect that allows me to pick a discipline, can I choose an arbitrary, even non-existent discipline? If my prey has not discarded anything yet, and has Huitzilopochtli in play with 1 blood and a 10 counter Call the Great Beast, can I Temptation him, then add a counter to the Beast, choosing Bardo, Mortis, and... umm... I dunno, Hypothermia? Just to make sure that I don't accidentally give him a discipline that he can use? I know it's unlikely to ever come up in play, and I'm not sure what the point would be of putting Agent of Power on Ian Forestal and then using Sanguine Instruction to create an army of vampires with a non- existent discipline. But I was just wondering what the rule is. The Baron was originally, I believe, printed as a promo before Bloodlines came out. When he was printed, did he simply have a useless shadow-hand symbol on him? Did he automatically define a discipline called Thanatosis, or was there just a temporary ruling in place that defined Thanatosis as a discipline until the set actually came out with a rules card that defined the discipline, meaning for a time, you could possibly Infernal Pact for superior in a discipline that had no cards printed for it (but can no longer do so)? So, yeah, basically, if a discipline is not listed in the rules, does that make it not a discipline? Or could it still be a discipline that just has no use?

Chris Berger wrote: > I'm wondering - is the list of disciplines printed on rules cards (and > possibly in the rulebook? I don't have one handy to check if it's > printed there) an exclusive list? It's an exhaustive list, yeah. > If I have an effect that allows me > to pick a discipline, can I choose an arbitrary, even non-existent > discipline? If my prey has not discarded anything yet, and has > Huitzilopochtli in play with 1 blood and a 10 counter Call the Great > Beast, can I Temptation him, then add a counter to the Beast, choosing > Bardo, Mortis, and... umm... I dunno, Hypothermia? Just to make sure > that I don't accidentally give him a discipline that he can use? No. http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/6636312ad8467b93

I can't seem to find any other example of this, or anything in the rule book. Based on The Great Beasts text, is simply says "choose 3 disciplines." It doesn't say choose 3 different or 3 unique disciplines. So would it be legal to hose someone by choosing the same discipline 3 times in this highly unlikely scenario? Great Beast with MEL three times, fear it! Cardtype: Action Clan: Baali Cost: 1 blood +1 stealth action. Put this card on the acting Baali and put X ritual counters on it, where X is the capacity of this Baali. This Baali may put a ritual counter on this card as a +1 stealth action. When this card has more than 10 ritual counters, burn this Baali and choose three Disciplines. This card becomes a unique clanless independent infernal vampire with 9 capacity, 4 strength and 3 bleed. The Great Beast has the chosen three Disciplines at superior. Move 9 blood to him from the blood bank. The Great Beast can enter combat with any ready minion controlled by another Methuselah as a (D) action and can prevent 1 damage each combat.

On Mar 6, 1:09 pm, Obtenebration <obtenebrat...@obtenebration.org> wrote: > I can't seem to find any other example of this, or anything in the > rule book. Based on The Great Beasts text, is simply says "choose 3 > disciplines." It doesn't say choose 3 different or 3 unique > disciplines. So would it be legal to hose someone by choosing the > same discipline 3 times in this highly unlikely scenario? Great Beast > with MEL three times, fear it! > I'm pretty sure that's a no. Compare to "2 other methuselahs", on Reckless Agitation, for one. It doesn't say "2 other distinct methuselahs", but obviously can't be interpreted as choosing the same methuselah twice, without ridiculously twisting the language. If it said something like "choose a discipline, 3 times", which would be a weird way to word that, then I would say you could choose the same discipline, but "choose 3 disciplines" clearly implies that the disciplines be different from each other. If you actually ran into the situation where you could use this, it would still be relatively easy to hose the Great Beast by choosing disciplines that no deck would reasonably choose... Melpominee, for one. Valeran, Thanatosis, Temporis, Mytherceria, Chimerstry, Spiritus seem like pretty good choices, too. They may be good disciplines, but unlikely to be played in a Great Beast deck. Animalism, Celerity, Vicissitude, Abombwe, Presence might work too. Depends on what you expect from that player.

Obtenebration wrote: > I can't seem to find any other example of this, or anything in the > rule book. Based on The Great Beasts text, is simply says "choose 3 > disciplines." It doesn't say choose 3 different or 3 unique > disciplines. So would it be legal to hose someone by choosing the > same discipline 3 times in this highly unlikely scenario? Great Beast > with MEL three times, fear it! No. Similarly, you can't choose the same Blood Brother 20 times for Coagulated Entity to get +20 strength. Similarly Walk of Caine (!), Gestalt, and Revolutionary Council (!).

On Mar 6, 1:26 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > Obtenebration wrote: > > I can't seem to find any other example of this, or anything in the > > rule book. Based on The Great Beasts text, is simply says "choose 3 > > disciplines." It doesn't say choose 3 different or 3 unique > > disciplines. So would it be legal to hose someone by choosing the > > same discipline 3 times in this highly unlikely scenario? Great Beast > > with MEL three times, fear it! In addition, vampires may only have 0, 1 (inferior), or 2 (superior) levels of a discpline. I believe in the Great Beast's case trying to give him Melpominee twice would be giving him 4 levels of a discipline, which is illegal.

[ quoted text not captured ] I'm pretty sure it's not illegal to give a vampire extra levels of a discipline, unless the card says so (which discipline cards do). But moot in this case.

[ quoted text not captured ] That's fine. For example, you can give a vampire without Obfuscate an Obfuscate master card (+1 level). Then you can give it a Changeling Skin Mask (2 levels). 3 levels. But it maxes out at 2. Levels beyond that are simply irrelevant. I guess, in theory, you could have a card where you lost one or more levels of a discipline (without getting rid of the master card, equipment etc.) and still have superior in a situation like the above, but I don't think that's possible with current cards. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.