Gen Con results?????

So for those of us who couldn't make it (I, sadly, was on a beach with my wife, eating lobster...), who won? What are some good tales of action and adventure? Cummon--you can't *all* be sleeping it off still... Peter D Bakija PD...@bigplanet.com http://www.myplanet.net/pdb6 "Grr! Release the Monkey!" -Zim

Peter wrote: > So for those of us who couldn't make it (I, sadly, was on a beach with my > wife, eating lobster...), That is kind of sad. I feel for ya, brother. :) > who won? As LSJ announced, Jared Strait won the NA Championship. A pretty darn tense game. I'll leave commentary on it to others. > What are some good tales of action and adventure? Ummm...umm... I got to meet *most* of the remaining "big names" in the US. Still haven't met: Derek Ray Gomi Atomweaver and a couple of others that I'm sure my sleep-deprived brain can't think of right now. Next up: Europe. Well, eventually. > Cummon--you can't *all* be sleeping it off still... I *so* wish I was, but I got in at 2am last night (after the 6-hour drive, with a layover for dinner with my parents), and went in to work today. Maybe I will take a nap, though. Xian sleepy

"Xian" <xi...@waste.org> wrote in message news:aj9frr$187mpi$1...@ID-123937.news.dfncis.de... > > > who won? > > As LSJ announced, Jared Strait won the NA Championship. A pretty darn tense > game. I'll leave commentary on it to others. > Commentary: I don't understand why everyone says this game is so long. I didn't have a single game take more than an hour. Xian's deck seemed to cause any table he even *looked* at to grind to a halt. I can't count the number of times (okay, 2... but it seemed like more) that I finished my game, went off for a brat, cruised the convention hall, and came back to see him sit, stare at his cards, sigh, play with his 20-some pool, then discard a card and say he was done. On the other hand, I have to say that he was very honorable in his stalling. He simply refused to be sped up by the other people at the table who were rushing to try and get an oust. I'm pretty sure he didn't take more than 10 seconds to choose his discard. Much more reasonable than the guy who used 5th Tradition and plunked a handful of pool down on his vamp without counting it. I don't think I played against any of the people who made the final. One could say that it says something about the strength of schedule I faced, but I prefer to think of it as wrecking any deck I came across. And finally, I have one more word to say about the tournament... Sixth. SIXTH! The most miserable place to hold in a V:TES tournament, especially the world championship. I didn't even stick around to watch the final... I just went off to wallow in a ditch. Oh, and Xian... I'm glad that my online impressions of you were not wrong (i.e. you were a nice guy in person as well as online). It was nice to finally meet you, man. And the same to everyone else I met, Jeff, Josh, Fred, David (who I don't think I've seen on this newsgroup, but to whom I offer my apologies for siccing Julia Prima on him) everyone else who my depression-addled mind can't remember (SIXTH!!!! SIXTH?!?!)... I'd already met Larry and Jared, although I didn't have a chance to talk to the World Champion-to-be this year. Tom Mickle had an absolutely amazing showing in the qualifier (four games played, four table wins). I couldn't figure out exactly what his deck did, but he obviously played it very well.

>> So for those of us who couldn't make it (I, sadly, was on a beach with my >> wife, eating lobster...), > >That is kind of sad. I feel for ya, brother. :) I agree. I feel sad now too. Those poor little lobsters - can't people realize that they have families too? Oh the humanity! Halcyan 2

>I don't understand why everyone says this game is so long. I didn't have a >single game take more than an hour. Games tend to (but do not always) take a real long time. In addition, 3 rounds plus a final take up a gigantic block of time. You have no idea how long your games are going to take so you can't really plan to do anything else. VTES is great, but if you plan on playing it, it takes up a giant block of time which is pretty much the whole day. Usually by the time you're finished, the dealer/exhibitor room is already closed. Etc, etc, etc. >Xian's deck seemed to cause any table he even *looked* at to grind to a halt. >I can't count the number of times (okay, 2... but it seemed like more) that >I >finished my game, went off for a brat, cruised the convention hall, and came >back to see him sit, stare at his cards, sigh, play with his 20-some pool, >then >discard a card and say he was done. On the other hand, I have to say that he >was very honorable in his stalling. He simply refused to be sped up by the >other people at the table who were rushing to try and get an oust. I'm >pretty >sure he didn't take more than 10 seconds to choose his discard. Well, people taking a very *long* time to take a turn even when there wasn't much time left did become a bit of an issue. Won't be naming any names though, I'll leave that to someone else... ;) >I don't think I played against any of the people who made the final. Both Jared and Christian were in my final round. Thank god I never sat at a table with Trey and his War Ghouls! Though I suppose I couldn't have done any worse (or some say "better") than I had done. =) I didn't play with Ben at all nor did I play with "Salon" during the Championship. I did manage to play a kick-ass pickup game with Szilan's 11-cap IC deck along with Alex Harmon and Trey and it was simply hilarious. We'll have to tell you guys about it some time... >And finally, I have one more word to say about the tournament... Sixth. >SIXTH! >The most miserable place to hold in a V:TES tournament, especially the world >championship. I didn't even stick around to watch the final... I just went >off to wallow in a ditch. Ha ha. I'm proud of you Chris! Unfortunately you didn't do "well" enough to join our "exclusive" triple-zero club though... Halcyan 2

<snip the parts that don't beg to be questioned> > And finally, I have one more word to say about the tournament... Sixth. SIXTH! > The most miserable place to hold in a V:TES tournament, especially the ***world*** > championship. Hey, watch it there! We're still playing on the other side of the ocean! You get away if you claim standard american ignorance for defence! =) /Henrik Isaksson

"Henrik Isaksson" <hen...@nissamedia.net> wrote in message news:aj9npe$19vk71$1...@ID-135400.news.dfncis.de... > > > And finally, I have one more word to say about the tournament... Sixth. > SIXTH! > > The most miserable place to hold in a V:TES tournament, especially the > ***world*** > > championship. > > Hey, watch it there! We're still playing on the other side of the ocean! You > get away if you claim standard american ignorance for defence! =) > There's an ocean? I know that the World Series decides who the best baseball team in America is. Isn't the best V:TES player in America also the world champion? ;) Okay, okay, typo... I am grievously sorry. That should have been national, and I feel very provincial and stupid for saying otherwise. I think I just got caught up in saying that my friend's fiancee was the Uno world champion (heh... they actually did have an Uno tournament at the con). 8)

"Halcyan 2" <halc...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20020812211429...@mb-cb.aol.com... > >I don't understand why everyone says this game is so long. I didn't have a > >single game take more than an hour. > > > Games tend to (but do not always) take a real long time. In addition, 3 rounds > plus a final take up a gigantic block of time. You have no idea how long your > games are going to take so you can't really plan to do anything else. VTES is > great, but if you plan on playing it, it takes up a giant block of time which > is pretty much the whole day. Usually by the time you're finished, the > dealer/exhibitor room is already closed. Etc, etc, etc. > Sorry Eric... I forgot the smiley. It was a joke. I've played this game before, afterall. Once or twice.

Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> skrev i diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:FLZ59.75008$UU1.14648@sccrnsc03... > > "Henrik Isaksson" <hen...@nissamedia.net> wrote in message > news:aj9npe$19vk71$1...@ID-135400.news.dfncis.de... > > > > > And finally, I have one more word to say about the tournament... Sixth. > > SIXTH! > > > The most miserable place to hold in a V:TES tournament, especially the > > ***world*** > > > championship. > > > > Hey, watch it there! We're still playing on the other side of the ocean! You > > get away if you claim standard american ignorance for defence! =) > > > There's an ocean? I know that the World Series decides who the best baseball > team in America is. Isn't the best V:TES player in America also the world > champion? ;) hehe > Okay, okay, typo... I am grievously sorry. That should have been national, and > I feel very provincial and stupid for saying otherwise. I think I just got > caught up in saying that my friend's fiancee was the Uno world champion (heh... > they actually did have an Uno tournament at the con). 8) Actually, I hade the impression it was a north american championship, which would include those french guys in the north, and maybe some mexicans... But isn't there time to have a world championship? Has it been done before? Perhaps arrange a atlantic cruise or something? mindstorming... /Henrik Isaksson (none of the great ideas above are copyrighted, feel free to use! =) )

>> Games tend to (but do not always) take a real long time. In addition, 3 >rounds >> plus a final take up a gigantic block of time. You have no idea how long >your >> games are going to take so you can't really plan to do anything else. VTES >is >> great, but if you plan on playing it, it takes up a giant block of time >which >> is pretty much the whole day. Usually by the time you're finished, the >> dealer/exhibitor room is already closed. Etc, etc, etc. >> >Sorry Eric... I forgot the smiley. It was a joke. I've played this game >before, afterall. Once or twice. Eric? Who? In any case, as I've told people countless times before, I just think on a different wavelength than most others. You humans and your silly senses of humor! How the frell am I ever supposed to know when you're joking! Halcyan 2

"Peter D Bakija" <PD...@bigplanet.com> wrote in message news:B97D3904.6C79%PD...@bigplanet.com... > So for those of us who couldn't make it (I, sadly, was on a beach with my > wife, eating lobster...), who won? What are some good tales of action and > adventure? Cummon--you can't *all* be sleeping it off still... Don't be so sure. It was a long long week. The days and events all blurred together so I may be confusing a bunch of this stuff. SUNDAY August 4: A bit of Chaos as flights in the Chicago area were being delayed or cancelled due ot bad weather. Alex Harmon rented a car and drove the last leg from Chicago. Ben Peal arrived very very late, etc. By evening we had 15 of the 16 Week of Nightmares participants plus Errol Treppanier. I think Fred Scott arrived Saturday too but it's really hard to remember. We drank till about 3 AM. It was very hot and humid and that mixed badly with my cigar and Mike Courtois' cigarette. We continued our games without pausing for the visit by the fire department as they tried to determine the cause of the ceaseless shriek of the smoke alarm. MONDAY August 5: Up at around 9:00 AM, we wandered into Perkins Restaurant and ate. Then we talked to the hotel management. They said we had to be quiet at night. We got put on a schedule and were asked to keep it down late at night. They also gave us two round tables for our 3rd floor suite in case we ran out of room in the bar. Some drunk chicks walked in *our* bar making all kinds of noise. She said "What are you guysssss playinnnnn?" After she found out about the vampires, she made a quick exit. She was desperate for male companionship...but not *that* desperate. We had maybe 20 people there by then? I suppose we drank and played till maybe 3:00 or 4:00 AM. TUESDAY August 6: Drinking and playing again. All day. All night. IIRC, this is when Matt Heslin arrived with some friends (including Amy and a guy who she teased mercilessly about being Jewish). We also had another *incident*. Seems one of the folks in the bar had a little too much to drink and decided to go swimming. The hotel's night manager said that if he went back in she'd have to call the cops. It seems the hotel chain's president was staying in the hotel that evening. Of course, I said I'd make sure our friend didn't go back in. Well, hell, I was in the middle of a game for cryin' out loud. Cut me some slack! Next thing I know he disappeared and I rushed to the glass door to the pool area. Fortunately there were no V:TES players floating face-down. Mike Courtois and I decided to go look around. We found our friend crashed out in front of the door to his suite. We read him a bedtime story and tucked him in. WEDNESDAY: Hardcore play and drink day. We registerd at GenCon Wednesday evening. I think we played a couple of Rapid Thought tournaments this evening. Sleep around 3 or 4 AM and up early for half of us. THURSDAY: Rapid Thought at the con. Most people drank and played till around 4:00 AM. This may have also been the night we played poker. Some fools played-out some games till dawn. I believe we had all of the tables in the bar full at this point and there were 41 V:TES players here by this evening. FRIDAY: After getting up at 9:00 AM to drive some people to the con, I returned to the hotel to take a day off with a number of people. Got some much needed rest as it was the first day with more than maybe 4 or 5 hours of sleep. We repeated the madness friday night playing and drinking. Each day was like the other. SATURDAY: Final Qualifier: I sat as Paul Johnson's predator in the final and bled like a maniac. He cycled into another deflection and sent my unblockable bleeds down the line. Paul and Tom Mickle went to the time limit. Then we went and drank more and played more. With the wake-up calls set for 6:30 AM, we knew we had to get to bed early. Few were smart enough to do what needed to be done and we stayed up really late anyway. SUNDAY: N.A. Championships: Round 1: I sat as Jared's predator, with my predator being Noal McDonald and grand predator Ben Swainbank. My grand prey was Matt Hirsch. Ben and Jared went to the finals later so this was an early preview. Jared showed a Nos prince with potence so I waited until I had Roxanne: Rectrix 13th and Ozmo ready to bring up simultaneously. I lived a while and dug into Jared for some huge bleeds. I crippled him good. I also incurred the wrath of the table. Jared and Ben Swainbank swapped table positions. Ben incurred the same heavy bleeds and I came up one card short of ousting him. There was a lot of good table talk. Noal was killing me and no one cared...much. Jared looked like he was about to end his turn and I suggested he send Noal's famous vamp to torpor to oust him. I was pleased to hear Noal call me a "fucker". Didn't matter in the end. Jared ousted Noal with a vote. I had one vamp sent to torpor and the other was Pentex'd and empty. With only a few pool left I still couldn't get anyone at the table to release me from my cage. I figured if they wouldn't help me I'm certainly not going to do them the favor of dying slowly for them. I transfered myself out that turn. Jared now had 2 vps. Ben Swainback eventually ousted Jared for table win. ROUND 2: I got a table win and a sweep. Long story here but basically I had Darby Keeney playing a great 1st Trad deck. He tried to help the table to keep me from ousting my prey but Darby's assistance was squandered turn after turn as they kept bleeding each other. I initally tried to bleed responsibly but after they were all working together I decided to just let loose. Darby's predator spend himself down to 1 pool to bring up Moncada. Go figure. He deflected so much early that I figured he had 20 of them. I bled him out eventually as it turned out that he, somehow had no deflections. With my last minion I bled Darby so hard he couldn't pay for his own three first traditions. Also in this round, Alex Harmon died from a Contingency Planning played when he had 1 pool left. Very little combat and I never saw a grapple the whole day. FINALS: Szilan was building a Cardano deck that used Ankara Citadel to play free Freak Drives, free Deflections, free 5th trad, free Skin of Steel etc. Trey Morita smacked his predator into oblivion with War Ghoul attacks. Jared's pool situation was much better than the other players and he was calling votes uncontested. Trey's intercept was no match for the forgotten labyrinth. His death was imminent. Rather than working together to squash Jared, Ben and Trey seemed pretty content to just try to kill their own prey before Jared got to them. In the end, it seemed to just line the table up for Jared. Jared got Trey and Ben in one vote, giving Jared a 2nd Vp, Trey 1 VP, and ensuring himself at least a tie. With Jared assured of the tournament win, he then conceded the rest of the game to Szilan to make sure he had plenty of time to catch his flight. Very little table-talk in contrast to last year's event. -Robert

Hi, > > Actually, I hade the impression it was a north american championship, which > would include those french guys in the north, and maybe some mexicans... But > isn't there time to have a world championship? Has it been done before? > Perhaps arrange a atlantic cruise or something? mindstorming... > My fellow Prince of Montreal came back from his trip mentionning that he did really great, he finished 7th, and BLA BLA BLA... What-e-ver! Is there anyone there who could leave me some tales to tell, so that when our playgroup ends up playing again with him we could just nag him about anoying things he might have done at the tournament? You know, the bad stuff. :) We might also need this as a psychological disturbance in futur tournaments. I couldn't hold on the thought of not asking. Sorry. GP41

>ROUND 2: I got a table win and a sweep. Long story here but basically I had >Darby Keeney playing a great 1st Trad deck. He tried to help the table to >keep >me from ousting my prey but Darby's assistance was squandered turn after turn >as >they kept bleeding each other. I initally tried to bleed responsibly but >after >they were all working together I decided to just let loose. Darby's predator >spend himself down to 1 pool to bring up Moncada. Go figure. He deflected so >much early that I figured he had 20 of them. I bled him out eventually as it >turned out that he, somehow had no deflections. With my last minion I bled >Darby so hard he couldn't pay for his own three first traditions. > Hmmm...interestingly enough, you didn't even bother to mention the "backstabbing incident," Goudie, you treacherous little bastard, you! =P Actually, the round was sort of interesting. It was pretty much you (Goudie) on one side trying to convince everyone how Darby was going to sweep the table and Darby on the other side trying to convince everyone how you were going to sweep the table (though he was actually trying to do stuff to prevent it). Whatever. I had fun, burned one of my predator's Embraces, and burned Goudie's Zebulon with an AI. It's a shame my prey wasn't able to burn Mariel with his AI too... Halcyan 2

> > Actually, I hade the impression it was a north american championship, which > would include those french guys in the north, and maybe some mexicans... But > isn't there time to have a world championship? Has it been done before? > Perhaps arrange a atlantic cruise or something? mindstorming... > mmm...you castigate Chris Berger for being provincial and then you go and assume that a world championship would involve an "Atlantic" cruise? Why don't you come down to Oz some time and play some REAL Jyhad. :) Chris.

chr...@comcen.com.au (Chris Arthur) wrote in message news:<5a63bace.0208...@posting.google.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] Vtes - dreamtime rules? Tobias Deventer Let's not forget antarctica...

Chris Berger wrote: > I don't understand why everyone says this game is so long. I didn't have a > single game take more than an hour. So I noticed, by your continuing hovering presence. :P I totally should have played a power-bleed deck or something, maybe even something Tremere, but I was just too keen on getting one last use out of the "old" ToGP, 5th, and 2nd. Shoot. > Xian's deck seemed to cause any table he even *looked* at to grind to a halt. Hahahaha!!! > I can't count the number of times (okay, 2... but it seemed like more) that I > finished my game, went off for a brat, cruised the convention hall, and came > back to see him sit, stare at his cards, sigh, play with his 20-some pool, then > discard a card and say he was done. On the other hand, I have to say that he I could not believe how bizarre my games were. In both of the games that went to time, there were at least two other Camarilla vote decks that were striving for vote lock. Also, every single time I got into a strong position, my offense evaporated from my hand, and I was unable to cycle my hand quickly. > was very honorable in his stalling. He simply refused to be sped up by the > other people at the table who were rushing to try and get an oust. I'm pretty > sure he didn't take more than 10 seconds to choose his discard. Much more Hmm. I thought that I was taking less time, actually...probably more like 5 seconds, which I think is pretty reasonable, considering that I had a hand full of crap, but there might have been something useful coming up. > reasonable than the guy who used 5th Tradition and plunked a handful of pool > down on his vamp without counting it. That was kind of unusual. That, and the combat that had every single step skipped, including that pesky "resolve damage" phase, until I mentioned something about it. Xian thought I had more to say, but seem to have forgotten some of it during that pesky "sleeping" phase

Peter wrote: > What are some good tales of action and adventure? Upon further reflection... I successfully played Rapid Thought at superior during the Rapid Thought tournament Thursday night? (!Brujah pre bleed/rush deck) Also, I *was* in one of the final rounds, but then LSJ kicked me out for some reason or another. :) Xian okay, I think it was because someone dropped, and that changed the finals, but I was shocked to have made any sort of final round, simply because I only got one table win

Robert Goudie wrote: > Jared got > Trey and Ben in one vote, giving Jared a 2nd Vp, Trey 1 VP, and ensuring > himself > at least a tie. With Jared assured of the tournament win, he then conceded > the > rest of the game to Szilan to make sure he had plenty of time to catch his > flight. So the end result was Jared and Szilan tied with 2 VPs each (and Trey with 1)? Did Jared win the tourney by virtue of total VPs as a tie breaker or something? [ quoted text not captured ]

Robert Goudie wrote: > Very little combat and I never saw a grapple the whole day. Man. What is up with that? I finally vow to *never* play anything in competition but pure Rush combat, I don't make it to Gen Con, and the rest of the freaks bag out! Oh, the humanity! Josh! Trey! Someone! For the love of G'Quan tell me you at least tried! Anyway, now that is the kind of report I like to see. What a total, ahem, nightmare that week must of been. I mean, sure, lots and lots of VTES is always good, but I'm totally hard core and I don't know if I could survive that much. I was reading Word Freak recently (the "I want to become a competetive Scrabble player!" biograph), and the author goes to, what, Reno to play a whole week of Scrabble (something like 80 games), and I said to my wife "Wife, that is freaking insane. I don't think even I could do that." You guys make me proud :-) [ quoted text not captured ]

Xian wrote: > I successfully played Rapid Thought at superior during the Rapid Thought > tournament Thursday night? (!Brujah pre bleed/rush deck) You rock! Man, I'm gonna have to run a Tourtured Confessions tournament, just so someone can feel compelled to play one in competition :-) [ quoted text not captured ]

Halcyan 2 wrote: > In any case, as I've told people countless times before, I just think on a > different wavelength than most others. You humans and your silly senses of > humor! How the frell am I ever supposed to know when you're joking! You aren't. We never joke. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Chris Berger wrote: > Xian's deck seemed to cause any table he even *looked* at to grind to a halt. > I can't count the number of times (okay, 2... but it seemed like more) that I > finished my game, went off for a brat, cruised the convention hall, and came > back to see him sit, stare at his cards, sigh, play with his 20-some pool, then > discard a card and say he was done. On the other hand, I have to say that he > was very honorable in his stalling. He simply refused to be sped up by the > other people at the table who were rushing to try and get an oust. I'm pretty > sure he didn't take more than 10 seconds to choose his discard. Much more > reasonable than the guy who used 5th Tradition and plunked a handful of pool > down on his vamp without counting it. OK, I'm pretty sure that this deck cost me my spot in the finals, since that round went to time, and I think Alex Hammon agreed that I would've gotten him with a Samedji'd Natalia, two pool/turn bloat, and a Fortune Teller Shop in play, aside from whatever else I might've played. However, it was probably the best game I participated in, and Xian's deck certainly had the tools to oust. From what I could tell of it, it certainly wasn't an "I block everything and bloat" deck. Still, I believe *every* round that he played went to time, and that's saying something. I can understand that time limits are a necessary evil, but I don't like them very much, and I think I'd like to see the limit raised to two and a half hours, since many games that time out seem to be on the verge of concluding. I realize, however, that this isn't likely to happen given the amount of time one tournament already consumes. I'd guess that this has been thought over by the powers that be, and the (apparent) effort being made to speed up games is the alternative solution. > Oh, and Xian... I'm glad that my online impressions of you were not wrong Seconded, one hundred and ten percent. I met, and dug, many, many players that I knew only from the newsgroup, and Xian was among the coolest. David Cherryholmes Prince of Durham, NC

On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Xian wrote: > Peter wrote: > > What are some good tales of action and adventure? > > Upon further reflection... > > I successfully played Rapid Thought at superior during the Rapid Thought > tournament Thursday night? (!Brujah pre bleed/rush deck) I worked the hell out of Week of Nightmares. I don't know how many game wins I got that week with the Ravnos -- and that'd be the Ravnos *without* the dominate, Mr. Peal! -- but dropping that card down on the table is hellastrong. I'll also note that not once, ever, did the tenth counter come off. I started calling it "The loaves and the fishes" after a while. Anyway, dumb luck and seating position probably had as much to do with the game wins as the power of my deck, but I'm pretty sure relative drunkeness could only have been hooking up the other guy. Drunken Monkey Style strong! Fear the power of stupid! David Cherryholmes Pool dippin' Prince of Durham, NC (it was a very nice pool.....)

"Halcyan 2" <halc...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20020813023501...@mb-ct.aol.com... > Hmmm...interestingly enough, you didn't even bother to mention the > "backstabbing incident," Goudie, you treacherous little bastard, you! =P Hi Eric. I never knew that you were Halcyan. Now I know. Anyway, the "backstab" involved me leaving Eric alone for 2 turns. By the time the second turn came around things had changed a lot. Darby had gone from 0 to 3 first traditions out so, IMO, you were basically dead anyway. And, as I said during our discussions, if you had any reason to believe you could hang on I'd have, of course, kept you around. > Actually, the round was sort of interesting. It was pretty much you (Goudie) on > one side trying to convince everyone how Darby was going to sweep the table and > Darby on the other side trying to convince everyone how you were going to sweep > the table (though he was actually trying to do stuff to prevent it). Whatever. Well, I'll be the first to admit that I was wrong about Darby sweeping. It seems Darby was right. > I had fun, burned one of my predator's Embraces, and burned Goudie's Zebulon > with an AI. It's a shame my prey wasn't able to burn Mariel with his AI too... I wouldn't have minded the AI. He only had 3 pool left. -Robert

On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Peter D Bakija wrote: > Man. What is up with that? I finally vow to *never* play anything in > competition but pure Rush combat, I don't make it to Gen Con, and the rest > of the freaks bag out! Oh, the humanity! Josh! Trey! Someone! For the love > of G'Quan tell me you at least tried! You may not have been there, but your deck was. They guy driving it made a good tool. I was plinking him lightly for a couple of pool a turn, convinced him to go whole hog on The Lasombra. Jeff saw his game getting erased and started flinging pool damage upstream. I dropped Week of Nightmares, which this guy had apparently never heard of, and bled him out with a bleed of around twelve with three minions. I think I turned the corner and popped Jeff out with Spleen on the same turn, but that may have been the following turn. David Cherryholmes Prince of Durham

"David Cherryholmes" <d...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu> wrote in message news:Pine.GSO.4.21.020813...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu... > On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Xian wrote: > > > Peter wrote: > > > What are some good tales of action and adventure? My favorite Cherryholmes moment was when I told him he looks kinda like Rob Schneider (Saturday Night Live, Deuce Bigalow, The Animal, etc.). After figuring out who Rob S. was he says disappointingly, "Oh man! That guy doesn't get the chicks!". Mike Ooi (OOOOOOyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeee) and Aaron were cracking me up the whole week. -Robert

>> In any case, as I've told people countless times before, I just think on a >> different wavelength than most others. You humans and your silly senses of >> humor! How the frell am I ever supposed to know when you're joking! > >You aren't. We never joke. Really? Halcyan 2 =) I got that one..I think...

Halcyan 2 wrote: > Really? Yes. I, for one, am the most serious guy ever. Ever. [ quoted text not captured ]

David Cherryholmes wrote: > You may not have been there, but your deck was. They guy driving it made > a good tool. I was plinking him lightly for a couple of pool a turn, > convinced him to go whole hog on The Lasombra. Jeff saw his game getting > erased and started flinging pool damage upstream. I dropped Week of > Nightmares, which this guy had apparently never heard of, and bled him out > with a bleed of around twelve with three minions. I think I turned the > corner and popped Jeff out with Spleen on the same turn, but that may have > been the following turn. Man. And that is why we have a bad reputation. Rush decks, like guns, should not be toyed with. There is nothing "hip" or "cool" about a Rush deck accident. [ quoted text not captured ]

David Cherryholmes wrote: > I can understand that time limits are a necessary evil, but I don't like them > very much, and I think I'd like to see the limit raised to two and a half > hours, since many games that time out seem to be on the verge of > concluding. I realize, however, that this isn't likely to happen given > the amount of time one tournament already consumes. Quite a few tournaments are run with 2.5 hour and even 3 hour rounds. The VEKN rules only specify a minimum of 2 hours per round, no maximum. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

"Robert Goudie" <rrgo...@earthlink.net> wrote: > N.A. Championships: > Round 1: I sat as Jared's predator, with my predator being Noal McDonald and > grand predator Ben Swainbank. My grand prey was Matt Hirsch. Ben and Jared > went to the finals later so this was an early preview. Jared showed a Nos > prince with potence so I waited until I had Roxanne: Rectrix 13th and Ozmo ready > to bring up simultaneously. I lived a while and dug into Jared for some huge > bleeds. I crippled him good. I also incurred the wrath of the table. Jared > and Ben Swainbank swapped table positions. Ben incurred the same heavy bleeds > and I came up one card short of ousting him. There was a lot of good table > talk. Noal was killing me and no one cared...much. Jared looked like he was > about to end his turn and I suggested he send Noal's famous vamp to torpor to > oust him. I was pleased to hear Noal call me a "fucker". Didn't matter in the > end. Jared ousted Noal with a vote. I had one vamp sent to torpor and the > other was Pentex'd and empty. With only a few pool left I still couldn't get > anyone at the table to release me from my cage. I figured if they wouldn't help > me I'm certainly not going to do them the favor of dying slowly for them. I > transfered myself out that turn. Jared now had 2 vps. Ben Swainback eventually > ousted Jared for table win. This was a really rough table and it wasn't much better in the other rounds. The ironic thing is that my Baali deck would have probably made it to the finals based on what I saw in each round. Oh well. Such is life. For the record (and those that weren't present), the "fucker" comment wasn't made in anger. I had said it with a good-natured smile because as soon as Rob made the suggestion, I knew I was doomed. Regards, Noal

Peter D Bakija wrote: > So the end result was Jared and Szilan tied with 2 VPs each (and Trey with > 1)? Did Jared win the tourney by virtue of total VPs as a tie breaker or > something? Jared was higher ranked going into the tournament finals (based on preliminary round GWs followed by VPs followed by TPs), which is the VEKN-specified tie-breaker, yes. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, LSJ wrote: > Quite a few tournaments are run with 2.5 hour and even 3 hour rounds. > The VEKN rules only specify a minimum of 2 hours per round, no maximum. Sure, I knew that. I had been discussing the pros and cons of time limits with a lot of the experienced tournament judges off and on all week, so it certainly wasn't that third round that engendered my opinion of them. It certainly adds to the irony of timing out of the finals, but that isn't where my opinion originated. I'd cited the flexibility of the VEKN rules at different points with different people, but I found support of the two hour limit to be the status quo, and I haven't played in any tournaments that used anything else -- although I'll readily admit to having only limited tournament experience. Thanks for taking the moment to clarify though, as always. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Peter D Bakija wrote: > Man. And that is why we have a bad reputation. Rush decks, like guns, should > not be toyed with. There is nothing "hip" or "cool" about a Rush deck > accident. I think this is why I've sort of drifted away from the Rush Deck camp. For a long time, I was attracted to the archetype because it was the obvious underdog in the Three Leg model, and because I thought it took a certain kind of surgical skill to actually win tables as opposed to just kingmake. Both those things are essentially true, but when it works, it works by denying its opponent the ability to even play the game. No minions = no game, and that's just not fun for anybody. If that's not a concern, then I can't think of any reason not to keep on working it, but I now prefer bully bleed with just enough rush to threaten cross-table if you're "gettin' LA'd" -- ;) -- and to soften up your predator enough that he still has a game, but one you can survive. David Cherryholmes Prince of Durham, NC hates getting LA'd

David Cherryholmes wrote: > I think this is why I've sort of drifted away from the Rush Deck > camp. For a long time, I was attracted to the archetype because it was > the obvious underdog in the Three Leg model, and because I thought it > took a certain kind of surgical skill to actually win tables as opposed to > just kingmake. Both those things are essentially true, but when it works, > it works by denying its opponent the ability to even play the game. No > minions = no game, and that's just not fun for anybody. This gets brought up a lot, but that is the same for any deck. If any deck works in VTES, it works by denying its opponent the ability to play the game. Sure, if I Rush and burn my prey's 6 point vampire, he is out of a vampire, and thus I limit his ability to do anything (i.e. play). How is that really any different than if I simply bleed my prey for 6? That 6 pool could have been a vampire that could do things. As I bled my prey for 6 pool, he is effectively out a 6 pool vampire. Sure, when a Rush deck works, its prey doesn't get to do much ('cause his vampires are all dead). But when a S+B deck works, its prey doesn't get to do much either ('cause he is ousted). The only real difference is that with the S+B deck, you get to get up and leave the table a few minutes earlier. [ quoted text not captured ]

David Cherryholmes <d...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu> wrote in message news:<Pine.GSO.4.21.020812...@petunia.mc.duke.edu>... > On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Chris Berger wrote: > > > Xian's deck seemed to cause any table he even *looked* at to grind to a > > halt. Now that I'm less sleep-deprived, I retroactively wished I had known (and looked) where *you* were sitting each round. :P > OK, I'm pretty sure that this deck cost me my spot in the finals, since > that round went to time, and I think Alex Hammon agreed that I would've > gotten him with a Samedji'd Natalia, two pool/turn bloat, and a Fortune > Teller Shop in play, aside from whatever else I might've played. However, Yeah, I think you would have gotten Alex as well. I'd like to point out that if you *hadn't* put the Ivory Bow on Spleen, I was going to ToGP Gabrin, and would have made it more painful. Oh yeah, and I wish I hadn't forgotten about your stupid Blood Dolls. :) > it was probably the best game I participated in, and Xian's deck certainly > had the tools to oust. From what I could tell of it, it certainly wasn't > an "I block everything and bloat" deck. Still, I believe *every* round > that he played went to time, and that's saying something. I honestly don't know what happened that game. The previous rounds, I can understand, because each of them had at least 2 other big Cam vote decks, one per table being a Nosferatu babies deck. That makes sense that multiple vote/bloat decks at each table makes things long. Still, in every game (prior to the NA Championship) that I've played with the deck, I get things set up pretty quickly, and start ousting. Every single freaking time I got into a strong position on Sunday, I'd jam on whatever I didn't need. Vote mods and no votes. Reaction cards and nothing else, when no one is doing anything to me. Master cards. It was freaking pathetic. In the third game, at one point, I had Dan Harting down to 4 pool. I had 3 minions, including Anneke with +1 bleed. Dan had a Sense-depped guy, and had shown no Wakes. Normally, I would be all about this, as my killer instinct is generally pretty strong. Sadly, I didn't bleed for the oust, because I had no way to cycle my hand, no 2nds (or non-Parity Shift votes) in hand, and didn't want to end up with David Sense-depping or Alex bleeding the crap out of me after my VP. > Seconded, one hundred and ten percent. I met, and dug, many, many players > that I knew only from the newsgroup, and Xian was among the coolest. Dude! :) Xian

On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Peter D Bakija wrote: > This gets brought up a lot, but that is the same for any deck. If any deck > works in VTES, it works by denying its opponent the ability to play the > game. It getting "brought up a lot" wouldn't, maybe, make you think there might be something to it, would it? > Sure, if I Rush and burn my prey's 6 point vampire, he is out of a vampire, > and thus I limit his ability to do anything (i.e. play). How is that really > any different than if I simply bleed my prey for 6? That 6 pool could have > been a vampire that could do things. As I bled my prey for 6 pool, he is > effectively out a 6 pool vampire. It's the difference between "could have been" and "is." In the latter case, he has a minion in the game and six less pool; he plays the game. In the former case, he has no minion and six extra pool; he stares at his hand. This whole analysis is a little over-simplified by talking in terms of one minion. Usually there are several, and dunking one will have an effect on the controlling player's game, but does not shut it down completely. And since most decks will speak to combat in some form or fashion, the only deck that will reliably eliminate *all* the minions you want is... what? Class? That's right: the weenie deck! > Sure, when a Rush deck works, its prey doesn't get to do much ('cause his > vampires are all dead). But when a S+B deck works, its prey doesn't get to > do much either ('cause he is ousted). The only real difference is that with > the S+B deck, you get to get up and leave the table a few minutes earlier. Feh. In the stealth bleed case, he has minions that can deflect, or rush backwards, or whatever, and then he maybe dies. In the case of weenie rush, he brings up minions, they go to torpor, repeat ad nauseum until dead. Or, he refuses to bring up minions, gets bled for one a lot while he stares at the game he would've played, then dies. The really comparable case would be weenie presence vote, weenie presence bleed, or weenie dominate bleed, usually aggravated by anarch revolts which either speed up the process or drag everyone else's game down by causing them to burn a bunch of minion actions to get rid of the damn things. With those three decks as your predator, you will probably lose so much pool so fast that your game will never get going. Maybe the next prey down the line will be OK with the time you bought him, but you are fucked. Weenie presence, weenie potence, weenie dominate. What say we tip a glass to these dangerous machines, and to their inventors and the craftsmen who've honed them over the years. Then, let's lock them away and end the detente. I think our game will be a lot better for it. YMMV. [ quoted text not captured ]

"Peter D Bakija" <PD...@bigplanet.com> wrote in message news:B97E7FA3.6D29%PD...@bigplanet.com... > Robert Goudie wrote: > > > Very little combat and I never saw a grapple the whole day. > > Man. What is up with that? I finally vow to *never* play anything in > competition but pure Rush combat, I don't make it to Gen Con, and the rest > of the freaks bag out! Oh, the humanity! Josh! Trey! Someone! For the love > of G'Quan tell me you at least tried! Mighty rush combat is no longer "rogue". Nobody's surprised if I show up with a bunch of potence weenies and a pile of Immortal Grapples. (Or if Robert Goudie does.) ;-) If you get lucky, you get the games that let you win. But if you don't, you get nothing. True for any deck type, of course. Anyhow - I did see Grapples one round, and was told about another potence rush deck in another, but neither of them managed to win their games. (The one in mine did tie for first, I believe. Hi Tim!) > Anyway, now that is the kind of report I like to see. What a total, ahem, > nightmare that week must of been. I mean, sure, lots and lots of VTES is > always good, but I'm totally hard core and I don't know if I could survive > that much. I was reading Word Freak recently (the "I want to become a > competetive Scrabble player!" biograph), and the author goes to, what, Reno > to play a whole week of Scrabble (something like 80 games), and I said to > my wife "Wife, that is freaking insane. I don't think even I could do > that." > > You guys make me proud :-) Yeah, it was somewhat nightmarish, but mainly only for the lack of sleep, for me at least. I didn't really get VTES-burned-out at all, probably because I played some other stuff too, and "only" ended up playing, like, four games of VTES a day on average. Heh. Josh had a terrifying dream that he was up until five am playing draft games

dhar...@my-deja.com (Noal McDonald) wrote in message news:<bb705c59.02081...@posting.google.com>... > "Robert Goudie" <rrgo...@earthlink.net> wrote: > This was a really rough table and it wasn't much better in the other > rounds. My favorite round of all the one's I lost. Hell, we had us two and two of the finalists. How could it be a bad game? > For the record (and those that weren't present), the "fucker" comment > wasn't made in anger. I had said it with a good-natured smile because > as soon as Rob made the suggestion, I knew I was doomed. I knew it was the good-natured kind but thanks for clarifying it for those not present. We do have your reputation to protect, afterall. :) I wish you had one more turn. I would've transfered out for you to stick it to Jared. -Robert

On Tue, 13 Aug 2002 00:31:38 GMT, "Chris Berger" <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote: >And finally, I have one more word to say about the tournament... Sixth. SIXTH! >The most miserable place to hold in a V:TES tournament, especially the world >championship. I didn't even stick around to watch the final... I just went >off to wallow in a ditch. Dude, at least it wasn't as random as a die roll ;-) Besides, if you think about it...and stay with me here cause this is where it gets weird.... 6th place is better than 5th place. Cause it hurts your rating to get another round with zero VP's. Oh, except for when it means you automatically qualify for next year. ....so I guess 6th for Nationals does suck..... <wallow, wallow> Ethan Burrow Texas Justicar saa...@yahoo.com

David Cherryholmes <d...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu> wrote in message news:Pine.GSO.4.21.020813...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu... > On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Peter D Bakija wrote: > > You may not have been there, but your deck was. They guy driving it made > a good tool. I was plinking him lightly for a couple of pool a turn, > convinced him to go whole hog on The Lasombra. Jeff saw his game getting > erased and started flinging pool damage upstream. I dropped Week of > Nightmares, which this guy had apparently never heard of, and bled him out > with a bleed of around twelve with three minions> David Cherryholmes > Prince of Durham I'm the guy who was playing the "deck".... It was inspired by Peter's deck and some of my own combat experience here in Montreal Canada... (I won the Quebec Championship with it...) The game David is reffering to actually cost me second place overall and in my opinion probably a good shot at the title...(since most decks in the final were not equiped to deal with it.. at least in my opinion) David played the table very well in that game but it was really The Lasombra who "forced me to go all out... I would had taken at least two of David's minions on my turn if it wasn't for The Lasombra's sudden change of heart (ok ok I did burn one of his big guys to prove a point) and after all he was my prey... As for Weeks of Nightmare... I didn't know what the card did totally (I'm not that far up north you know...) it did surprise me though and in the end cost me a game win and second seat in the final... Good job David! I would had done the same thing... (but be advised the Brujah doesn't make the same mistake twice...;) The deck alowed me to deal with most decks present there even heavy combat decks such as Assamites and Theo Bell based decks... I came 7th overall and I'm dam proud of it! no stealth! no dominate or presence just all out potence! Yeah it would had been nice to make the final and burn more vamps there but eh! there always next year! Hugues Bertrand BRUJAH Prince of Montreal "My Word is Gold, my Rage Untold!"

Robert Goudie <rrgo...@earthlink.net> wrote > Hi Eric. I never knew that you were Halcyan. Now I know. Hey! The first rule of Halcyan 2 is...? --you don't talk about Halcyan 2. heslin

On Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:56:24 -0400, "Hugues Bertrand" <hugues....@securenet.net> wrote: >I'm the guy who was playing the "deck".... It was inspired by Peter's deck >and some of my own combat experience here in Montreal Canada... (I won the >Quebec Championship with it...) >The game David is reffering to actually cost me second place overall and in >my opinion probably a good shot at the title...(since most decks in the >final were not equiped to deal with it.. at least in my opinion) >David played the table very well in that game but it was really The Lasombra >who "forced me to go all out... I would had taken at least two of David's >minions on my turn if it wasn't for The Lasombra's sudden change of heart >(ok ok I did burn one of his big guys to prove a point) and after all he was >my prey... If you had instead simply bled with all of your minions, you would have ousted me, instead of leaving me with no minions and 1 pool. Rushing Jessica cost you the game. Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com

On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, The Lasombra wrote: > If you had instead simply bled with all of your minions, you would > have ousted me, instead of leaving me with no minions and 1 pool. > > Rushing Jessica cost you the game. This isn't intended to sound smug, but IMO convoluted strategies aimed at table balancing cost lots of people lots of games. I find when I'm watching other people play that I would have played more aggressively and gone for the oust. When it doesn't seem like that strategy is very smart, I just tend to hold still, rather than tweak the table in some way. [ quoted text not captured ]

David Cherryholmes wrote: > > It getting "brought up a lot" wouldn't, maybe, make you think there might > be something to it, would it? Of course! Just like card limits! :-) > It's the difference between "could have been" and "is." In the latter > case, he has a minion in the game and six less pool; he plays the > game. Not if losing that 6 pool ousts him. Again, if I am a Rush deck, and I kill 16 pool worth of vampires, my prey is out 16 pool and 16 pool worth of vampires. If I am a S+B deck, and I bleed my prey for 16, that is 16 less pool they have to spend on vampires, and as a result, they are out 16 pool and 16 pool worth of vampires. In either case, they are likely to be dead soon anyways, so it doesn't really matter. > Feh. In the stealth bleed case, he has minions that can deflect, or rush > backwards, or whatever, and then he maybe dies. Or he doesn't have any minions, 'cause he was bled a lot and couldn't afford to bring them out. [ quoted text not captured ]

David Cherryholmes wrote: > This isn't intended to sound smug, but IMO convoluted strategies aimed at > table balancing cost lots of people lots of games. Which is why people find Rush decks hard to play. They are under the impression that they need to balance the whole table. Pah. Kill your first prey quickly, then aim to be the last man standing--3 VPs is a table win, which is all you need. [ quoted text not captured ]

> Which is why people find Rush decks hard to play. They are under the > impression that they need to balance the whole table. Pah. Kill your first > prey quickly, then aim to be the last man standing--3 VPs is a table win, > which is all you need. > Peter D Bakija What I really like with rush decks though is that you can easily stop or slow down your predator while still ousting your prey. I agree though one must be careful not to overextend themselves all over the table... Personally I like the "Salmon Gambit" , I hurt my predator trying to make him into a speed bump and then take out my prey who has already invested time and effort in its own prey and minions. (worked really well with my weenie potence last weekend... in fact the only time I didn't do that I got ousted ...) This strategy is not conventional but it works... not everyone aggrees with it, in fact some guys were pretty disturbed by it at GenCon... When played properly rush decks are IMO the most powerful types of decks because they can defend against anything (except maybe other combat decks sometimes). just my two cents! Hugues Bertrand

On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Hugues Bertrand wrote: > What I really like with rush decks though is that you can easily stop or > slow down your predator while still ousting your prey. I agree though one > must be careful not to overextend themselves all over the table... By "Rush Deck" you mean "Weenie Rush Deck" right? Otherwise, you drop the "easily" and replace it with something like "doable." I dunno, maybe I'm bogging down on the semantics. I suppose the only really reliable rush decks *are* going to need an overwhelming number of rush actions for that tactic to float a table win on it's own. In any case, my premise has never been that this isn't an effective tactic, just that it's fuck-all no fun for anyone else playing against it. And I can understand that you can reasonably reply with that being someone else's problem, and playing to win the tournament and all that. I'm not trying to be the game-nazi here. Just expressing an opinion like "wouldn't it be a sweet world if everybody agreed to give up their nuclear weapons and fight with clubs instead." I *know* it ain't gonna happen. > This strategy is not conventional but it works... not everyone aggrees with > it, in fact some guys were pretty disturbed by it at GenCon... When played > properly rush decks are IMO the most powerful types of decks because they > can defend against anything (except maybe other combat decks sometimes). Actually, I'd call the strategy pretty conventional at this point. Like Josh Duffin said, the Rush Deck really isn't vogue-rogue anymore, and Peter, among others, has honed it to a well-known art. Anyway, I still managed to enjoy myself at that table. Sitting next to it is kind of like swimming with sharks. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Peter D Bakija wrote: > Of course! Just like card limits! Oh. Those people. Well, they're wrong and I'm right. That's the distinction. ;) And actually, the only "card limit argument" I've seen in years has been "man, I know my group sucks but I'm stuck with card limits so here's my deck." > > It's the difference between "could have been" and "is." In the latter > > case, he has a minion in the game and six less pool; he plays the > > game. > Not if losing that 6 pool ousts him. Again, if I am a Rush deck, and I kill > 16 pool worth of vampires, my prey is out 16 pool and 16 pool worth of > vampires. If I am a S+B deck, and I bleed my prey for 16, that is 16 less > pool they have to spend on vampires, and as a result, they are out 16 pool > and 16 pool worth of vampires. In either case, they are likely to be dead > soon anyways, so it doesn't really matter. Notice the switch from six to sixteen. It's a significant shift of the premise. If you've bled him for sixteen, then you've gotten up three mid-caps, or you're swarming with weenie dominate. I agree with you Peter, weenie potence rush is not one jot worse (or better) than weenie dominate. If it's the midcaps, that took time, and he's playing the game. That's what this is all about, to me: decks that don't let the other guy play the game. > > Feh. In the stealth bleed case, he has minions that can deflect, or rush > > backwards, or whatever, and then he maybe dies. > > Or he doesn't have any minions, 'cause he was bled a lot and couldn't afford > to bring them out. You snipped the part of my post where I addressed this ahead of time. Will a Malk deck bleed out it's prey before it can get a minion out? In the odd case of a burgeoning, behemoth, "here's my guy" deck that didn't see any of its influence-enhancers.... possibly. In any other case, that guy's going to get up a minion or two, and pitch his deck's answer to stealth-bleed at his predators three or four minions. It's the weenie decks that do what you're talking about, and I'm not drawing any distinctions between your deck and any other loop-holing power weenie deck. [ quoted text not captured ]

David Cherryholmes wrote: > By "Rush Deck" you mean "Weenie Rush Deck" right? Otherwise, you drop the > "easily" and replace it with something like "doable." I dunno, maybe I'm > bogging down on the semantics. I suppose the only really reliable rush > decks *are* going to need an overwhelming number of rush actions for that > tactic to float a table win on it's own. Sure--I think by deffenition, any Rush deck that is going to be half way viable is going to have an average vampire size of, like, +/- 3.5. I think any Rush deck that has substantially larger vampires (like an average size of 6+) is more of a larky, "fun" deck, rather than a viable tournament comtender. > In any case, my premise has never been that this isn't an effective tactic, > just that it's fuck-all no fun for anyone else playing against it. Which is a reasonable statement (although not completely correct--at Origins, when I was not playing my Rush deck, and I was sitting between 2 Rush decks, I had a very fun game, but that is me), but again, can apply to any really effective deck. A really fast bleed deck? No fun to be the prey of. An Anarch Revolt deck? No fun to be the prey of. A steamroller vote deck? No fun to be the prey of. A "Intercept everything and Obediance" deck? No fun to be the predator of. Any fast, effective deck isn't going to be fun tobe next to, if by "fun" you mean "getting to play for a long time and getting your deck to do what it is supposed to do". That is part of competetive play. [ quoted text not captured ]

David Cherryholmes wrote: > That's what this is all about, to me: decks that don't let the > other guy play the game. I agree with this completely, and agree that it is unfortunate. Sadly, however, it is the state of the game. Most decks that do really well do so by denying its opposition from doing much. Yes, it would be great if this were not the case. It would take a significant change to the game structure to make it happen, however, like eliminating all vampires in the game with a capacity less than 4 or something. If there are weenie vampres (cap 1-3), regardless of their disciplines, there will be weenie speed decks that are incredibly effective when compared to most decks built around cap 5+ vampires. [ quoted text not captured ]

"Ethan Burrow" <saa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:ujvilusg6lj6dk7ge...@4ax.com... > On Tue, 13 Aug 2002 00:31:38 GMT, "Chris Berger" > <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote: > > >And finally, I have one more word to say about the tournament... Sixth. SIXTH! > >The most miserable place to hold in a V:TES tournament, especially the world > >championship. I didn't even stick around to watch the final... I just went > >off to wallow in a ditch. > > Dude, at least it wasn't as random as a die roll ;-) > True. It wasn't random. The guy who came in 5th definitely had more TP's than me. > Besides, if you think about it...and stay with me here cause this is > where it gets weird.... 6th place is better than 5th place. Cause it > hurts your rating to get another round with zero VP's. > Rating? I care as much about rating as I care about whether or not the Ravnos get another weapon hoser card. Which is to say less than not at all. I just wanted to win. I appreciate that some people are interested in building their rating up, but I play in so few tournaments it's not even worth trying. I just want to win the tournies I *do* enter and hopefully get some cool stuff.

On Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:10:16 -0400, Peter D Bakija <PD...@bigplanet.com> wrote: >David Cherryholmes wrote: > >> That's what this is all about, to me: decks that don't let the >> other guy play the game. > > I agree with this completely, and agree that it is unfortunate. Sadly, >however, it is the state of the game. Most decks that do really well do so >by denying its opposition from doing much. > >Yes, it would be great if this were not the case. It would take a >significant change to the game structure to make it happen, however, like >eliminating all vampires in the game with a capacity less than 4 or >something. If there are weenie vampres (cap 1-3), regardless of their >disciplines, there will be weenie speed decks that are incredibly effective >when compared to most decks built around cap 5+ vampires. Post-GenCon I can now see why the change was made to "The Embrace" card, such that they no longer get a discipline card attached. Each of my first 2 games had me with an embrace horde on my back (ick!). Good news was that I was playing my Cryptic Mission/Shadow Twin deck which kept the weenies down, but ended up with me going backwards so much that I did little more than enable my Grand-Predator to gain a VP. It was nice to see that none of the Uber-Bleed decks made it into the finals. >Peter D Bakija >PD...@bigplanet.com >http://www.myplanet.net/pdb6 > >"Grr! Release the Monkey!" >-Zim BernieTime Lansing, Michigan

<berni...@attbi.comHOLDLeSPAM> wrote in message news:3d5a9021....@netnews.attbi.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Maybe you didn't play against Jay Kristoffs embrace uber bleed deck...the one without any skill cards. The removal of the skill cards from embrace doesn't stop the weenie horde problem. It just makes the decks that try to do strange things less possible: "My ventrue creates and embrace...*searching*...he gets a necromancy skill card!" -- Aaron The Nosferatu Stuff

On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Nosferatu Stuff wrote: > Maybe you didn't play against Jay Kristoffs embrace uber bleed deck...the > one without any skill cards. The removal of the skill cards from embrace > doesn't stop the weenie horde problem. It just makes the decks that try to > do strange things less possible: "My ventrue creates and > embrace...*searching*...he gets a necromancy skill card!" That would be Jay's "Can I Wear This Jacket Too?" deck, and boy did I get my butt handed to me in that round. I don't think there was any uber bleed to it, but there sure were a crap-ton of damaging votes. The embraces certainly don't hurt the deck but I saw him get as many low cap Gangrels via Ingrid + Info Highway, then flat out burning the four transfers and bringing them up in one turn with the leftover influence. When you ConBoon for 8+ pool over and over, who needs embraces? [ quoted text not captured ]

"David Cherryholmes" <d...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu> wrote in message news:Pine.GSO.4.21.020814...@petsparc.mc.duke.edu... [ quoted text not captured ] Where was your intercept? You didn't see my prey getting out millions of embraces and running the table.(although he did try) Actually, I blame mark for the collaps of that table. It just took him too long to get out lambach. He would have been dead 2 turns earlier if not for my embrace killing. =( If I could just figure out how to get more offense in that deck it'd be great. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Nosferatu Stuff wrote: > Where was your intercept? You didn't see my prey getting out millions of > embraces and running the table.(although he did try) > Actually, I blame mark for the collaps of that table. It just took him too > long to get out lambach. He would have been dead 2 turns earlier if not for > my embrace killing. =( > If I could just figure out how to get more offense in that deck it'd be > great. If you recall, I did intercept without any damage prevention in hand, knowing he'd likely have a poke. I took the risk *because* I know how important it is not to let decks like that get rolling. I got popped into torpor for my effort, immediately diablerized, and in the time it took to get my next minion up, a six cap, he was past the point of being stopped. If you hadn't felt the need to flex your "intercept is for my predator" muscles on actions that weren't even on the same planet as "I oust you" I might've had a better chance at holding him back. Mark taking three turns to get a minion up sure didn't help, but by the time he did, Jay had something like six minions with more coming out every turn. By that point, the game was over (and I rarely say that). [ quoted text not captured ]

David Cherryholmes wrote: > I don't know how many game wins I got that week with the Ravnos -- > and that'd be the Ravnos *without* the dominate, Mr. Peal! And what did you use in the championships? ;) - Ben Peal, Prince of Boston fu...@mindstorm.com

On 14 Aug 2002, Ben Peal wrote: > And what did you use in the championships? ;) Yeah but but.... but DUDE! The stupid Red Herring *forced* me to play dominate cards! I needed the distinct bleed actions. Is it my fault Gabrin has dominate anyway? It was just an eensy weensy little bit of dominate. Anyway, I think our whole little running joke got started with talking about bleed bounce. At least I didn't pollute my deck with any of those. ;) [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Actually, Jay was my predator in the 3rd round. He only put out one or two Embraces total compared to the hordes from my first 2 rounds. I actually had to work upstream of Jay as his predator was popping out Embraces so fast it took the entire table to keep it under wraps. My prey (the infamous Keith Thompson) was playing a wall deck with Lambach, so he and I cut a table deal where I would aid him in clearing the table until it was the two of us enabling me to withdraw. No way to get thru all that intercept, so seemed as good a deal as I could get. Jay still managed to oust me in the end, but at least I had more fun in this game than the others. BernieTime Lansing, Michigan