So what happens after the Cam set?

I've been wondering, as I'm sure many of you are, what exactly will happen to the game after the release of the Camarilla set coming this summer. I don't mean "what changes to the meta-game" will occur, but rather if White Wolf has any plans for further expansion. I imagine so, as I'm sure the rights for the game weren't cheap and they'll still need to do some re-couping of costs. Seriously, though, its been REALLY nice having the game come back alive with these 3 expansions from White Wolf. Its added a much-needed breath of fresh air to the environment with new strategies, etc. Granted, I'm still exploring the possibilities from SW and FN, but I also like new cards. LSJ: you may not be a liberty to say, but is there some design in the works for more V:TES expansion after the Camarilla set? I'd really hate to see the game go dormant again. Crossing my fingers and hoping for the best... Jon

Jon Stahler wrote: > LSJ: > you may not be a liberty to say, but is there some design in the works for > more V:TES expansion after the Camarilla set? Yes. A press release is being developed now. It will be included on the White Wolf page when the information is ready for public consumption. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3C6A8A3F...@white-wolf.com... > Jon Stahler wrote: > > LSJ: > > you may not be a liberty to say, but is there some design in the works for > > more V:TES expansion after the Camarilla set? > > Yes. A press release is being developed now. It will be included on > the White Wolf page when the information is ready for public consumption. > I believe this calls for a WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

>Yes. A press release is being developed now. It will be included on >the White Wolf page when the information is ready for public consumption. > >-- >LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. >Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: >http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Could you, and are you allowed to, teach us with a notion when this ight arrive? The press release that is...

[ quoted text not captured ] No. Sorry. I'll only find out at the time it's ready to be released myself. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <3C6AF9CD...@white-wolf.com>, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > Could you, and are you allowed to, teach us with a notion when this > > ight arrive? The press release that is... > > No. Sorry. I'll only find out at the time it's ready to be released myself. Is it just me, or does anyone else find it odd that most people are always concerned about what the *next* set will be. Before Bloodlines, everyone was speculating about the Camarilla Set. Now people are wondering what's after the Camarilla Set. Yes it would be nice to know that something is coming out after the Cam Set, but I see a lot of people saying: "Sets are too frequently released, we need time to digest the current set" and "What's the next set? I hope it's a Dark Ages set, or an Allies set" I could be wrong here, but I think it's jumping the gun a bit to think about what will come out after the Cam set, when we still don't know what's coming out in the Cam set. -Sam

>Is it just me, or does anyone else find it odd that most people are >always concerned about what the *next* set will be. Before Bloodlines, >everyone was speculating about the Camarilla Set. Now people are >wondering what's after the Camarilla Set. Yes it would be nice to know >that something is coming out after the Cam Set, but I see a lot of >people saying: Well I think that with the post-Camarilla Set in particular, people are just a bit concerned what direction (if any) the game will go. Ever since Sabbat War, White Wolf made it clear that Final Nights, Bloodlines, and then a new Camarilla Set were coming (generally speaking). So when Bloodlines came out, people were a bit comfortable because they knew something was coming next. But, 'cept for what LSJ just confirmed, before then, we didn't know for sure if *anything* was coming out after the Camarilla Set. For all we knew, White Wolf might have decided to stop VTES (unlikely but possible). So people got a bit antsy and curious. Halcyan 2

I agree with halcyan... after the discontinuation of the First Time...reassurrance was all that was needed..and thankfully LSJ gave that too us...Maybe all new cards... Maybe not...whatever it is...the game continues to evolve and grow... I wouldn't worry about it being Magicfied... If anything...I feel the Final Nights and Bloodlines expansions have given more options and has decimated the weenie madness mentality...Competitive decks can be made to everyone's liking without each deck looking like the same...oh wow..another Channel Fireball deck...how neat....(sarcasim drips) anyway...They have yet to dissappoint me...and they have my complete faith...

(snip) > "Sets are too frequently released, we need time to digest the current > set" that's my opinion exactly anybody else hope things slow down after the Camarilla Set ? JC

halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote in message news:<20020213194413...@mb-cu.aol.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] I know it's not just me, a lot of the UK players have the same fear, that, although new sets are great, WW really need to slow down on the production of them. I personally think that 2 sets a year (if they indeed are going to stick with that figure) will 'flood' the VTES market and rules will have to be introduced to counter this problem - Magic type 1/2 tournament rules spring dangerously close to mind. I appreciate WW are a business, and wanna make money, but us players should be concerned about what effect all these new sets will have, rather than begging for more! And who the hell wants a Dark Ages set?!?! What's it gonna be, a stand alone? No thanks.... Martin

Martin wrote: >And who the hell wants a Dark Ages set?!?! What's it gonna be, a stand >alone? No thanks.... I see no reason why a Dark-ages set cannot mix with modern sets and still be thematically appropriate. Vampires are, after all, immortal. A thousand years can pass between a vampire entering torpor and coming out again. Vampires with swords and bows can compete with vampires with guns -- indeed, they do that already. The time frame that an individual game represents can be determined by the cards that enter play. If the presence of guns proves that the time frame is modern, then I guess that means my Dark-Ages vampires are just old fashioned - as ought to be the nature of older vampires. Members of Dark-ages bloodlines could easily be imagined as surviving til the Modern Nights. That said, I too would like to see the game slow down some at this point.

Actually what's wrong with a Dark Ages Stand Alone Set? Dark Ages back ground and all? In compatible to the Modern Set... *shrug* could be cool...and if you don't like it...you don't have to buy it... and it won't 'flood' the market of VTES as you fear.... Actually...I've been wondering when WW will incorporate the rest of the WoD into the game...or make separate games for them... so a stand alone Dark Ages set wouldn't surprise me.... Those who would oppose the idea...may only be doing so because they don't want to spend more money...well, you don't have to... choice is a beatiful thing...

In message <7d05d887.02021...@posting.google.com>, erinus <eri...@hotmail.com> writes: >Actually what's wrong with a Dark Ages Stand Alone Set? Candidates tackling this question should write on one side of the piece of paper on alternate lines. Your answer should address: - the necessity of buying more 'basic' cards - the sanctioned splitting of the player base into typed formats - the current instability in the Dark Ages setting as Dark Ages: <X> are being developed and released (references to alt.games.white-wolf /passim/ will earn extra marks) - the difficulties of developing a coherent set where higher generation (smaller capacity) vampires will be much rarer whilst simultaneously maintaining playability and balance - establishing a coherent political system in a system where title and sect are potentially very movable feasts - the need to, for example, replicate a .44 Magnum as a .44 Crossbow Candidates tackling the proposing side of the set should present their answer similarly, addressing: - the potential for expansion of the player base - the ability to stimulate more and new ideas in a card set, reflecting alternative societies - the more heavily clan based nature of the system, allowing freedom of access to multiple strategies that are currently denied (e.g. the Lasombra following certain Camarilla strategies, taking V:TES as a base) - the joy of eliminating weenies forever - the upside of generating more income for White Wolf which can be ploughed back into V:TES in general On no account should candidates attempt to address both sides, nor should candidates attempt to find flaws in their arguments, nor should candidates attempt compromise. Marks will be deducted for diplomatic language. Invoking Godwin's law will ensure success. You have one hour. Turn over your papers NOW. -- James Coupe but I lust after the raw pow0r of c. PGP 0x5D623D5D together with the humping great EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 elephant arse of gnome. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D - Vashti

eri...@hotmail.com writes: >Actually what's wrong with a Dark Ages Stand Alone Set? Could be useful, actually. You could try to rejigger the card set to alter strategy balance. Just omit Majesty, for example. You might have some de-uniqueing problems from replacing certain uniques with modern names (zoo hunting ground, eg.) Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com) "It is better to be wrong than to be vague" - Freeman Dyson

In article <20020214204812...@mb-fc.aol.com>, CurtAdams <curt...@aol.com> wrote: > eri...@hotmail.com writes: > > >Actually what's wrong with a Dark Ages Stand Alone Set? > > Could be useful, actually. You could try to rejigger the > card set to alter strategy balance. Just omit Majesty, > for example. You might have some de-uniqueing problems > from replacing certain uniques with modern names (zoo > hunting ground, eg.) The problem with ANOTHER Stand Alone set is that you're going to get more WWEF's, Skin of Rocks, Spirits Touch, Discipline cards, etc. etc. etc. I don't need 7 different versions of Rats Warning (Jyhad, VtES, Sabbat, Sabbat War, Final Nights, Camarilla, Dark Ages), and I'm sure most people won't want to open "new" booster packs and get the same commons we cursed getting in other sets. WW has already engineered the basic set the way they want it, with Sabbat War and the Camarilla set. The first sets put out by WW were designed to bring the game to a balanced level, with Sabbat War, Final Nights, and Camarilla being "retoolings" of Sabbat, DS/AH, VtES respectively. With all of this done, I would guess that the new new set (after Cam) will be along the lines of Bloodlines, a pure expansion taking the game in a new direction, rather than starting over again. -Sam

James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > On no account should candidates attempt to address both sides, nor > should candidates attempt to find flaws in their arguments, nor should > candidates attempt compromise. Marks will be deducted for diplomatic > language. Invoking Godwin's law will ensure success. > Hitler is going to be printed as part of the set? What clan? Cool! Any other Nazis? Jake

>> On no account should candidates attempt to address both sides, nor >> should candidates attempt to find flaws in their arguments, nor should >> candidates attempt compromise. Marks will be deducted for diplomatic >> language. Invoking Godwin's law will ensure success. >> > >Hitler is going to be printed as part of the set? What clan? Cool! >Any other Nazis? Well, Heinrick Himmler is a Tremere and Hermann Goering(?) is a Malkavian. Not to mention the quite a handful of Brujah neo-nazis... Halcyan 2

Sam Hillier <sar...@powersurfr.com> wrote in message news:<140220021944165212%sar...@powersurfr.com>... > The problem with ANOTHER Stand Alone set is that you're going to get > more WWEF's, Skin of Rocks, Spirits Touch, Discipline cards, etc. etc. > etc. I don't need 7 different versions of Rats Warning (Jyhad, VtES, > Sabbat, Sabbat War, Final Nights, Camarilla, Dark Ages), and I'm sure > most people won't want to open "new" booster packs and get the same > commons we cursed getting in other sets. Agreed, so don't make it stand alone, or at least compatible with the Vtes system. Most games are played anyway in home situations using house rules. I can imagine that for for instance sanctioned tournaments and the likes combining the sets might lead to issues, but that can always be solved by having more cards on the ban list. > WW has already engineered the basic set the way they want it, with > Sabbat War and the Camarilla set. The first sets put out by WW were > designed to bring the game to a balanced level, with Sabbat War, Final > Nights, and Camarilla being "retoolings" of Sabbat, DS/AH, VtES > respectively. With all of this done, I would guess that the new new > set (after Cam) will be along the lines of Bloodlines, a pure expansion > taking the game in a new direction, rather than starting over again. This is also what I think/hope. Well... since the time of thin blood has been passed along side by the Final nights, I guess we will not see a Thin Blooded expansion comming up any time soon, although maybe a few things might appear in upcomming sets. But if we look at WW new and upcoming publications and the new faction book going to be released (guide to the anarchs) I think a lucky geuss of an anarch expansion might be in order. This will, in my opinion, add to the game of politics pretty good, introduces some chaotic and therefor new strategy perspective, and keeps in line with the RPG. Any ideas? And I know it is not a good thing to guess before anything is clear, let alone that the Camarilla set has to be released, but well... it's just damn fun..:) Grtz, Pepijn > > -Sam

[ quoted text not captured ] Harbringer's That would be my guess. Raille

neuro...@xs4all.nl (Pepijn) wrote in message news:<ad39be55.02021...@posting.google.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] Well how about something WW didnt exploit yet ? Like the inconnu ! This would be MIGHTY cool and would be completly compatible with previous expansions . But I also liked the idea of a allies expansion ; A allies expansion could explore a lot of possibilities in the WOD . Just my 2 cents ... Mechadick mech...@hotmail.com

In message <397ee008.02021...@posting.google.com>, Mechadick <mech...@hotmail.com> writes: >Well how about something WW didnt exploit yet ? Like the inconnu ! The whole Inconnu. Directly involved in the Jyhad. Controlled by Methuselahs. Hmmm. [ quoted text not captured ]

Nystulc wrote: > Vampires with swords and bows can compete with vampires with guns -- indeed, they > do that already. They're no way to justify dark ages equipment being as good as modern stuff, unique / magical things ala ivory bow aside. Even if you had some weird long bow with heavy pull of 150lbs (requiring potence or 2 strength for example), there's no way that it should be as powerful, or as accurate as a sniper rifle (especially a powerful one, like Mark V). I'm sure that some really old Brujah with a crapload of cel and pot, and a sword, could dodge all the shots from some guy with a sniper rifle, and close the distance in a few rounds (mind you that a sniper rifle has insanely long range even compared to other small arms). Then the sword + pot at close range chops up the sniper. But that's just the cel doing all the work, not the sword he's carrying. The sword and bow don't compete, the mystical vampire disciplines do. Which is ok as long as you never have 2 vampires without fight disciplines, or allies, using these weapons. Because it would be really silly if a pair of 2 caps with say, dom, fought evenly with 1 having a bow and the other having a .44. Bows are hard to use, .44s are not.

In article <397ee008.02021...@posting.google.com>, Mechadick <mech...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Well how about something WW didnt exploit yet ? Like the inconnu ! > This would be MIGHTY cool and would be completly compatible with > previous expansions . But I also liked the idea of a allies expansion > ; A allies expansion could explore a lot of possibilities in the WOD . > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't we already seen Inconnu in the game? Isn't Ankla Hotep an Inconnu? Or the Kyasid whose name escapes me? Of course, since I know very little about the WoD canon, I'm probably wrong. These guys are interesting for a number of reasons: they were big, had interesting different discipline spreads and specials. I'd like to see more of these type of vamps, they're versatile, leading to new deck types and enhancing current offbeat strategies. -Sam

>Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't we already seen Inconnu in the >game? Isn't Ankla Hotep an Inconnu? Or the Kyasid whose name escapes >me? Of course, since I know very little about the WoD canon, I'm >probably wrong. The Kiasyd Bartholomew is supposedly a member of the Inconnu. Ankla Hotep isn't as far as I know. He's just an old Ravnos who was being controlled by his old flame Nefertiti. And he managed to get Chimerstry 10 with the help of some Mummy amulet... Halcyan 2

"Jon Stahler" <sta...@ilir.uiuc.edu> wrote: >I've been wondering, as I'm sure many of you are, what exactly will happen >to the game after the release of the Camarilla set coming this summer. I >don't mean "what changes to the meta-game" will occur, but rather if White >Wolf has any plans for further expansion. I imagine so, as I'm sure the >rights for the game weren't cheap and they'll still need to do some >re-couping of costs. The license for a game that had been sleeping that long can't have been *that* expensive, I'd imagine. Anyway, there's plenty of spaces to fill in the Vampire world. I could easily imagine the following: * Inconnu: Could add "Inconnu" as a sect descriptor, and various goodies. Has the major advantage that we'd (finally) see Vlad Tepes... * Anarchs: Could add "Anarch" as a sect descriptor (possibly as a subset of Independent - it would be silly if they couldn't Free State Rant.) Master cards/Allies representing Kuei-Jin could be fun. * Black Hand: Sabbat expansion, including the Sabbat Ravnos, Setites and Assamites. "Black Hand" could be card text, giving access to special cards and/or abilities. * Specific city/area/event expansions (e.g.: New York). Any other ideas? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Johan Lundstrom <jo...@algonet.se> "Nothing succeeds like excess"

>Nystulc wrote: > >> Vampires with swords and bows can compete with vampires with guns -- >indeed, they >> do that already. > >They're no way to justify dark ages equipment being as good as modern stuff, >unique >/ magical things ala ivory bow aside. [snip] You spent a lot of typing trying to convince me that arrows are not as good as machine guns. But all I was saying is that Bastard Swords and Submachine Guns currently exist side-by-side in the same game. The sword may not be as good as the gun, but it is priced accordingly and is balanced. Of course, now that you bring it up, you are overlooking that modern weaponry is notoriously ineffective against the supernatural. From the point of view of Mortals, an Ivory bow is a pathetic weapon compared to any gun. The only thing that makes it good is *aggravated damage* - which is only effective against vampires and other supernaturals.

On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 19:59:25 GMT, Shaun McIsaac wrote: >They're no way to justify dark ages equipment being as good as modern stuff, unique >/ magical things ala ivory bow aside. Even if you had some weird long bow with >heavy pull of 150lbs (requiring potence or 2 strength for example), there's no way >that it should be as powerful, or as accurate as a sniper rifle (especially a >powerful one, like Mark V). I'm sure that some really old Brujah with a crapload >of cel and pot, and a sword, could dodge all the shots from some guy with a sniper >rifle, and close the distance in a few rounds Er, no. A sniper will try to catch you unawares and so the best defense would be Auspex rather than Celerity. A sniper rifle should be good against Kindred because it allows you to make a head shot which is what you need to inflict lethal damage with a gun. Otherwise, guns just do bashing damage which a well-fed vampire can just shrug off. A bow would be more effective because you are effectively firing wooden stakes with it. Likewise, a sword should be good because you can decapitate or dismember the victim with it. You see all this in the computer game. In that, a vampire takes a long sleep and so goes from the Dark Ages to the present. You generally find that you're better off using the weapons from the past rather than modern firearms. A revolver is feeble compared to a sword. You need flame-throwers, chain guns and rocket launchers to really gain a tech advantage. Andrew