Delaying Tactics Question

Hi All, This came up at the Portland tournament a couple weeks ago but i haven't had the chance to ask it yet. Methuselah A has 2 Anarch Revolts in play and Methuselah B has one of his vamps call the political action to burn an Anarch Revolt. Methuselah A plays a Delaying Tactics and cancels that political action. Can Methuselah B select a different vampire to burn the OTHER Anarch Revolt? The logic being it is not the SAME political action since it is a different Anarch Revolt card. Thanks! Mari Malkavian Admin Assistant for the Portla...@yahoogroups.com list Chatelaine of Portland CARD TEXT: Anarch Revolt [Jyhad, V:TES] Cardtype: Master Master. Put this card in play. Each Methuselah burns 1 pool during his or her untap phase. Any vampire can burn this card with a successful <referendum>; calling this <referendum> is a +1 stealth <political> action. Delaying Tactics [Jyhad, V:TES] Cardtype: Reaction Any vampire. Only usable during a political action. The political action is canceled. Untap the acting vampire. The controller of the acting <vampire> takes the political card (if any) back into his or her hand, and his or her <vampires> cannot take the same political action this turn.

Mari <tinkrb...@yahoo.com> writes: > Hi All, > > This came up at the Portland tournament a couple weeks ago but i haven't > had the chance to ask it yet. > > Methuselah A has 2 Anarch Revolts in play and Methuselah B has one of > his vamps call the political action to burn an Anarch Revolt. > Methuselah A plays a Delaying Tactics and cancels that political > action. Can Methuselah B select a different vampire to burn the OTHER > Anarch Revolt? Yes. "Same Action" means: 1) The same inherent (cardless) action taken against the same target. 2) The action taken with the same card played from hand, regardless of target. 3) The same action provided by the same copy of a card in play. (Each action provided by a card in play is a distinct action (and doesn't count as the "same action"). [RTR 19950905] -- James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D "Definitely a woman" - www.thespark.com/ Standard disclaimers apply to this post. Full written details available upon request. Your statutory rights are not affected.

James Coupe wrote: > "Same Action" means: 1) The same inherent (cardless) action taken > against the same target. I never noticed that. So if you untap a Renegade Garou with a Precognizant Mobility, it use its rush again? Just not on the same target? If so, is the "same target" the same minion or a minion of the same methuselah? Fred

[ quoted text not captured ] It could even rush the same target again, since PrecogMobility doesn't restrict the types of actions the untapped minion may perform (contrast with Delaying Tactics from the earlier messages in this thread). Note, however, that if you're playing with the V:EKN special floor rule against "repeat actions", the the Garou cannot perform his built-in rush a second time in the turn, since that *is* the same action *type*, regardless of the target. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

- "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3AB8EF15...@white-wolf.com... > Frederick Scott wrote: > > > > James Coupe wrote: > > > > > "Same Action" means: 1) The same inherent (cardless) action taken > > > against the same target. > > > > I never noticed that. So if you untap a Renegade Garou with a > > Precognizant Mobility, it use its rush again? Just not on the > > same target? If so, is the "same target" the same minion or a > > minion of the same methuselah? > > It could even rush the same target again, since PrecogMobility doesn't > restrict the types of actions the untapped minion may perform (contrast > with Delaying Tactics from the earlier messages in this thread). > > Note, however, that if you're playing with the V:EKN special floor > rule against "repeat actions", the the Garou cannot perform his built-in > rush a second time in the turn, since that *is* the same action *type*, > regardless of the target. > Hmm does this mean that you cannot attempt a 2nd vote to burn a 2nd Anarch Revolt either under the V:EKN rules?? *confused*

Roger Carhult <rogc...@student.luth.se> wrote in message news:99oo8o$el3$1...@taliesin.netcom.net.uk... > Hmm does this mean that you cannot attempt a 2nd vote to burn a 2nd Anarch > Revolt either under the V:EKN rules?? *confused* The same vampire cannot call two votes in the same turn regardless of untapping under the V:EKN tournament rules. Carpe Noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com

Roger Carhult wrote: > "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message > > Note, however, that if you're playing with the V:EKN special floor > > rule against "repeat actions", the the Garou cannot perform his built-in > > rush a second time in the turn, since that *is* the same action *type*, > > regardless of the target. > > > > Hmm does this mean that you cannot attempt a 2nd vote to burn a 2nd Anarch > Revolt either under the V:EKN rules?? *confused* "You" can, with a different minion (vampire), yes. The same vampire cannot attempt a second political action in a single turn if you're using the NRA rules, no. [ quoted text not captured ]

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> ha scritto nel messaggio news:3AC07B46...@white-wolf.com... > Roger Carhult wrote: > > "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message > > > Note, however, that if you're playing with the V:EKN special floor > > > rule against "repeat actions", the the Garou cannot perform his built-in > > > rush a second time in the turn, since that *is* the same action *type*, > > > regardless of the target. > > > > > > > Hmm does this mean that you cannot attempt a 2nd vote to burn a 2nd Anarch > > Revolt either under the V:EKN rules?? *confused* > > "You" can, with a different minion (vampire), yes. The same vampire cannot > attempt a second political action in a single turn if you're using the NRA > rules, no. > Ouch, i don't understand.. Was not ruled that "same action" means: ..... 3) The same action provided by the same copy of a card in play. (Each action provided by a card in play is a distinct action (and doesn't count as the "same action"). [RTR 19950905] So, doesn't this break even the NRA floor rule? I mean: i got two AR in play, vamp A tries to call the political action to burn AR n°1, but he's blocked or a DT is played. Vamp A is then untapped (by some effect or by the DT effect), and can take the political action provided by AR n°2, since AR n°2 is a card in play and provides a "distinct" (political) action to be taken to burn it.... I'm not sure...... Help welcome... Emiliano, vekn Prince of Rome [ quoted text not captured ]

tetragrammaton wrote: > Ouch, i don't understand.. > Was not ruled that "same action" means: > ..... > 3) The same action provided by the same copy of a card in play. (Each action > provided by a card in play is a distinct action (and doesn't count as the > "same action"). [RTR 19950905] Yes. > So, doesn't this break even the NRA floor rule? No, since the NRA floor rule prevents a minion from repeating the same *type* of action. A cardless bleed action is a different action than a Social Charm, but both are bleed actions. See the NRA rules for the specifics of the NRA restriction. > I mean: i got two AR in play, vamp A tries to call the political action to > burn AR n°1, but he's blocked or a DT is played. > Vamp A is then untapped (by some effect or by the DT effect), > and can take the political action provided > by AR n°2, since AR n°2 is a card in play and provides a "distinct" > (political) action to be taken to burn it.... That's a different action, but it is another political action (the same *type* as the first action), so if you're using NRA, he can't take another political action (even a different political action) again this turn. -- [ quoted text not captured ]

> > I mean: i got two AR in play, vamp A tries to call the political action to > > burn AR n°1, but he's blocked or a DT is played. > > Vamp A is then untapped (by some effect or by the DT effect), > > and can take the political action provided > > by AR n°2, since AR n°2 is a card in play and provides a "distinct" > > (political) action to be taken to burn it.... > That's a different action, but it is another political action (the same *type* > as the first action), so if you're using NRA, he can't take another political > action (even a different political action) again this turn. The thing with DT and AR is this: With a regular political action (say Con Ag), if it gets DT'd, *no* minion may attempt to call that PA again that turn. Not minion A, not vamp B and not minion C. It is not only a policitcal action but a distinct action (Con Ag). Where AR is concerned, each one in play is different (as said above) but still a political action. So if a vote to burn an AR is DTd, the acting minion (vamp A) can't take an action to call the vote to burn another one, but vamp B could. Minion C could. I had a really nice AR/DT vote deck built believing that DT protected all the ARs for that turn but as soon as I found out that wasn't the case, it stopped doing nearly as well... Alas. Sorrow --- Dear God, don't know if you noticed, but... your name is on a lot of quotes in this book, and us crazy humans wrote it, you should take a look, and all the people that you made in your image still believing that junk is true. Well I know it ain't, and so do you, dear God, I can't believe in I don't believe in...

LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> ha scritto nel messaggio news:3AC31BD1...@white-wolf.com... <snipped> > > I mean: i got two AR in play, vamp A tries to call the political action to > > burn AR n°1, but he's blocked or a DT is played. > > Vamp A is then untapped (by some effect or by the DT effect), > > and can take the political action provided > > by AR n°2, since AR n°2 is a card in play and provides a "distinct" > > (political) action to be taken to burn it.... > > That's a different action, but it is another political action (the same *type* > as the first action), so if you're using NRA, he can't take another political > action (even a different political action) again this turn. > > -- Ok, to be sure: what you're saying above applies only to default actions types, or with any action provided by different copy of a card in play? EG: a minion has two Haven Uncovered on him, vamp A attempts the rush on that minion, using the HU n°1. Then (same turn) vamp A untaps, may he/she attempt to rush again using the HU n°2 ? Thanks Emiliano, vekn Prince of Rome [ quoted text not captured ]

tetragrammaton wrote: > Ok, to be sure: > what you're saying above applies only to default actions types, or with any > action provided by different copy of a card in play? > EG: a minion has two Haven Uncovered on him, > vamp A attempts the rush on that minion, using the HU n°1. > Then (same turn) vamp A untaps, may he/she attempt to rush again using the > HU n°2 ? > Thanks > Emiliano, vekn Prince of Rome Yes. See the parameters given in the V:EKN rules regarding NRA, which also answer this. -- [ quoted text not captured ]