rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

TOM:[Q] Non-camarilla voting revisited...

2 messages from 2 participants · 27 December 1995
original thread on Google Groups

James Puzzo

Tom, please clarify the following: From the original RTR in November, I thought that it was made quite clear that the restrictions on Non-Camarillas were the following: They couldn't become princes. They couldn't be named Archons or Camarilla Exemp. They can't call the following votes: praxis seizures, justicar retribution, command of the harpies, a vote to burn Elysium: the Arboretum. By definition, this would exclude Non-Camarillas from calling Prince/Justicar/IC member only votes. By inference, I would imagine that they also cannot call Camarilla Exemp. as it is a Camarilla type vote (but I could be wrong). NOWHERE in this ruling does it forbid Non-Camarillas from calling votes which are not expressly forbidden. However, rumors have spread that you have stated that non-camarillas CAN NOT vote. Please explain the truth with reference to definitive rulings. Until you do so, I would urge others to follow a guide similar to the one below which I have constructed based on the definitions in the 11/10/95 ruling: (I apologize for anything that I left out or placed incorrectly... feel free to email a critique...) Votes Non-Camarilla vampires can call as kindred: (they are, after all, some of the oldest clans -- their decision to NOT join the Camarilla when it formed does not detract from their ability to influence their Kindred in Non-Camarilla matters and to bring such matters to a vote) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The vote to burn: Anarch Revolt Ancient Influence Ancilla Empowerment Autarkis Persecution Consanguineous Boon Consanguineous Condemnation Conservative Agitation Cunctator Motion Domain Challenge Dramatic Upheaval High Stakes Kindred Segregation Kine Resources Contested Lextalionis Peace Treaty Political Flux Praxis - Solomon Regaining the Upper Hand Reversal of Fortune Rumors of Gehenna The vote to burn: Rumors of Gehenna DS votes: The vote to burn: Bureaucratic Overload The vote to steal: Powerbase: Berlin Banishment Giovanni Acceptance Ravnos Acceptance Votes I'm not sure about because they may or may not be ruled to be Camarilla specific: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Camarilla Exemplary Brujah Justicar Gangrel Justicar Malkavian Justicar Nosferatu Justicar Toreador Justicar Tremere Justicar Ventrue Justicar The vote to burn: Masquerade Enforcement Votes Non-Camarilla vampires CAN NOT call: (Since they are not members, they are not privy to bring Camarilla specific decisions to the fore other than the question of their own membership. They can, of course, vote on these matters if they have the necessary influence (votes), but they can not CALL these votes (clan specific votes for non-camarillas belong here as well): --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Archon First Tradition: The Masquerade Fifth Tradition: Hospitality Kindred Restructure Masquerade Enforcement Parity Shift Praxis Seizure(Atlanta) Praxis Seizure(Boston) Praxis Seizure(Chicago) Praxis Seizure(Cleveland) Praxis Seizure(Dallas) Praxis Seizure(Houston) Praxis Seizure(Miami) Praxis Seizure(Seattle) Praxis Seizure(Washington DC) Sabbat Threat The vote to burn: Elysium-The Arboretum DS votes: Anathema Command of the Harpies Praxis Seizure(Amsterdam) Praxis Seizure(Barcelona) Praxis Seizure(Berlin) Praxis Seizure(Brussels) Praxis Seizure(Dublin) Praxis Seizure(Frankfurt) Praxis Seizure(Geneva) Praxis Seizure(Glasgow) Praxis Seizure(London) Praxis Seizure(Paris) Praxis Seizure(Rome) Praxis Seizure(Stockholm) Praxis Seizure(Venice) Tradition Upheld Wrath of the Inner Circle

Thomas R Wylie

James Puzzo <jam...@gw.digibd.com> wrote: >From the original RTR in November, I thought that it was made quite clear >that the restrictions on Non-Camarillas were the following: > They couldn't become princes. > They couldn't be named Archons or Camarilla Exemp. > They can't call the following votes: praxis seizures, justicar > retribution, command of the harpies, a vote to burn Elysium: > the Arboretum. > >By definition, this would exclude Non-Camarillas from calling >Prince/Justicar/IC member only votes. Right. >By inference, I would imagine that they also cannot call Camarilla >Exemp. as it is a Camarilla type vote (but I could be wrong). Correct. >NOWHERE in this ruling does it forbid Non-Camarillas from calling votes >which are not expressly forbidden. However, rumors have spread that you >have stated that non-camarillas CAN NOT vote. Did I say that? Bleah! If so, then sorry; there is no general prohibition on Non-Cam vampires taking political actions. (I must have been battling the Baltimore netcom site for connect time when I said that.) >Votes I'm not sure about because they may or may not be ruled to be Camarilla >specific: >Brujah Justicar... There's nothing really stopping a Non-Cam vampire from lobbying for another vampire to become Justicar, so they can call these votes. >The vote to burn: Masquerade Enforcement Hm. I don't remember whether we discussed that one or not. Seems simpler to let them do it, though. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.