Official VEKN Gangrel antitribu NL volume 3 number 2

OFFICIAL VEKN GANGREL-ANTITRIBU NEWSLETTER VOLUME 3 NUMBER 2 FEBRUARY 2000 IN THIS VALENTINE’S CHOCOLATE-BOX ISSUE….. STORY-BOX: LOVE IN THE AGE OF CHOLERA SOAP-BOX: THE LEGBITER LINE ON CARD FIXES SEALED-BOX: DECK CONSTRUCTION ON A LIMITED BUDGET STORY-BOX: LOVE IN THE AGE OF CHOLERA The crocuses are surging out of the ground and so are the vampires, arrayed in all their least mouldy finery, for tonight it is the Feast of St Valentine, and being a vampire is ALL about sex. And as a luminary of the vampire world [check with the Evil One, Atomweaver, Prince of Atlanta or Hated Coupe if you don’t believe me] I have my duties to fulfill tonight, even if I would actually rather be at home watching TV with Lady Legbiter. Bugger, where are my black socks? Guess I’ll just have to wear the cowboy boots over these rather lurid yellow jobs and hope I never get to the stage of having to take them off. Goodnight sweetheart, see you later! At the Succubus club I find a secluded table and sit there drinking Bloody Marys and simply OOZING age and evil. Trouble is, there is a certain kind of self-destructive vamp who finds this attractive [specially when she is drunk] and it isn’t long before a strapping little blonde thing lurches over to me and unceremoniously clears away some of the corpses to make herself a space. "Hi! You’re Legbiter, right? I read all your stuff, you know." Just in case she has auspex, I refrain from thinking how surprised I am that she can read at all. "Are you here collecting material? Can I be in one of your stories?" "Actually I am here because I if I didn’t come I wouldn’t know who was plotting against me. Normally, by the way, young things like you would address me as Your Lordship." "O come off it, this is the 21st century!" "No it isn’t. That doesn’t start unti-" "Anyway, shall we go and make love now?" [inward sigh] "OK." Studiously ignoring the sniggers and not-so-sotto-voce remarks about baby-snatching from the harpies I allow myself to be led by the hand out of the club to her beat-up little sports-car and then back to her place. Actually she is quite pretty and her crypt is nicely decorated. Maybe this won’t be such a chore after all. She nips behind a screen and emerges wearing considerably less clothing and brandishing a couple of muzzles. "Erm … what in Caine’s name are you up to?" "Well, you know, AIDS and all that ….. I’m not really into penetrative blood-bonding, know what I mean? Come here, gorgeous." Deeply regretting the whole evening but most especially the state of my sock drawer, I prepare to do my duty. SOAP-BOX: THE LEGBITER LINE ON CARD FIXES I’ve been reading some of the posts about Life Boon which seems to cause many of our colonial brethren great unhappiness and I’ve even stated my views about this particular card on the NG. Here I just want to add the general point that the more text-unsupported fixes we make to cards, the more difficult and frustrating it becomes for new or occasional players to get into the game. This is a bad thing. I’ll admit, however, that a certain ferment, even a Maoist change-for-change’s sake policy does have the effect of revitalising the game, as David Pontes pointed out during the 7/7 brouhaha. In the spirit of compromise and constructiveness which is so alien to me i would like to suggest that this is better achieved through changes to the RULES than through changes to the texts of cards. For example, No vote-pushing and No Repeat Actions are rule-changes that don’t require any change to card text. If people are unhappy about Life Boon why not try playing with the rules amendment that Master OOT actually means Master out of PHASE? So you could play a Sudden Reversal or counter-life boon on your turn during your minion phase, provided you had not already used up your master phases for that turn. Cards like Absolution of the Diabolist and gangrel conspiracy [the only reference in this NL to anything remotely antitribu-ish, so savour it, boys and girls] would still be different and useful because you could play them on your turn even if you HAD already used up your masters. Frenzy would become a whole lot more useful, and so would Rotschreck, Minor Boon and Major Boon which would be nice for the combat guys and therefore a GOOD THING. DI is another matter, of course. SEALED-BOX: DECK CONSTRUCTION ON A LIMITED BUDGET I actually got into this game originally as a collector, and so by the time I discovered what a good game it is I already had a MOUNTAIN of cards which is one of the reasons I like to explore the wilder shores of rare-rare combos. Over the past couple of months however I have been playing the game rather differently, trying to evaluate the extent to which it’s possible to play Jyhad effectively on a limited budget. To be truthful I have been trying to play on a budget of 0 GBP, building decks exclusively from two boxes of Jyhad boosters that David tatu gave me when he was here last. I’ve been building Happy families-type decks from these cards alone and I’d rate this period of my Jyhad-gaming life as my most successful [though perhaps not most creative] ever. In fact, I reckon I am probably becoming TOO successful, since people in my gaming group are beginning to see me as the Main Threat. As examples of the kind of thing I’ve been able to build here are two decks, constructed from a pool of cards that would cost you the same as 10 or so Pokemon boosters. Deck Name: Frying Tonight Tha/Cel/Aus deck with a smidgen of dominate Bit short on damage prevention but otherwise very nasty CRYPT 2 Thomas Thorne 2 Cardano Lucian 2 Cassandra 2 Anvil 2 Ulugh Beg Lazarus LIBRARY 16 ACTIONS Bloodhunt Pulse of the Canaille 7 GtU 4 Bum’s Rush 2 Grave Robbing Fifth Tradition 33 COMBAT 5 Theft of Vitae 3 Walk of Flame 2 Trap 4 Blur 2 Blood Fury 2 Acrobatics 2 Taste of Vitae 3 Cauldron of Blood 2 Aura Reading 4 Flash 4 Nimble Feet 3 ACTION MODS Conditioning 2 Bonding 15 MASTERS 3 Minion Tap Metro UG Golconda 2 Blood Doll 4 Haven Uncovered Mob Connections 2 Fame Academic HG 18 REACTIONS 4 WWEF 2 Telepathic Counter 3 Deflection 5 Telepathic Misdirection 2 Spirit’s Touch Enhanced Senses Second Tradition 2 EQUIPMENT Hawg .44 magnum 3 VOTES Parity Shift Archon Kindred Restructure Deck Name: The Wolves are Coming Pro/For/Ani deck with a touch of potence based on wee Gangrels and their friends. Once this has started swarming the rest of the table are in trouble. So are you, if someone has vote dominance and an anarch uprising or ancilla empowerment. CRYPT: 2 Bear Paw 2 Roman Alexander 2 Badger 2 Zach North 2 Ricki van Damp pants 2 Giuliano Vincenzi LIBRARY: 16 PROTEAN: 4 Wolf Claws 4 Earth Control 2 Movement of the Slow Body 4 Form of Mist Homunculus Earth Meld 6 POTENCE: 3 Thrown Sewer Lid 3 Undead Strength 18 FORTITUDE: Day Op 2 Unflinching Persistence 4 Skin of Rock 2 Restoration 5 Skin of Steel 2 Dawn Op Undead Persistence Freak Drive Skin of Night 19 DISCIPLINELESS CARDS: 2 Taste of Vitae 3 Renegade garou 4 WWEF Ritual Challenge 2 Trap Tasha Morgan 2 Computer hacking 2 Embrace JS Simmons Gypsies 13 ANIMALISM 6 Rat’s Warning Murder of Crows 3 Cat’s guidance Raven Spy Owl Companion Army of rats 17 MASTERS 2 Minion Tap Animalism Protean 3 Blood Doll KRCG News radio 2 Fame Backways 2 Effective Management Fortitude Zoo HG Haven Uncovered Finally, although I’ve not yet played one of these decks in a tournament Michael has, and he got to the final with it. So it IS possible to be competitive and flexible on a limited budget. And with that hopeful thought I bid you farewell for another month. Line that may get deleted when i post this. Kisses from Legbiter in case it doesn't, with extra big smoochy ones for the Prince of boston just to annoy him. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Playing OOT masters during your minion phase was proposed in the Sabbat as a possible rules change, and was playtested for a couple of weeks. We broke the game several times. I never want to re-live that experience again :-) It just wasn't fun, and started feeling more like a trump game than VTES. In article <88bcq1$70t$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, legb...@my-deja.com wrote: > OFFICIAL VEKN GANGREL-ANTITRIBU NEWSLETTER VOLUME 3 NUMBER 2 FEBRUARY > 2000 > SOAP-BOX: THE LEGBITER LINE ON CARD FIXES <snip> > For example, No vote-pushing and No Repeat Actions are rule-changes > that don’t require any change to card text. If people are unhappy > about Life Boon why not try playing with the rules amendment that > Master OOT actually means Master out of PHASE? So you could play a > Sudden Reversal or counter-life boon on your turn during your minion > phase, provided you had not already used up your master phases for > that turn. Cards like Absolution of the Diabolist and gangrel > conspiracy [the only reference in this NL to anything remotely > antitribu-ish, so savour it, boys and girls] would still be different > and useful because you could play them on your turn even if you HAD > already used up your masters. Frenzy would become a whole lot more > useful, and so would Rotschreck, Minor Boon and Major Boon which would > be nice for the combat guys and therefore a GOOD THING. DI is another > matter, of course. ----------------------- Ethan Burrow - Prince of Austin et...@ddg.com http://whitestar.ddg.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

On Tue, 15 Feb 2000, Ethan Burrow wrote: > Playing OOT masters during your minion phase was proposed in the Sabbat > as a possible rules change, and was playtested for a couple of weeks. > We broke the game several times. I never want to re-live that > experience again :-) Erk, my minion phase Direct Interventions. Eek. -- James Coupe

In article <Pine.SOL.4.10a.100021...@red.csi.cam.ac.uk> , [ quoted text not captured ] OK, though i did point out in my original post that own-turn DI's could be stinky. Effectively, however, a malkavian Madness Network deck can do all this stuff already [as you've already pointed out in the Life Boon thread, james]. i don't think decks of this kind can be said to break the game. And Ethan, did your playtesting exactly cover my proposal which is that IF you forgo your normal master phase THEN AND ONLY THEN can you play an OOT master on your minion phase? Your prey or whoever can still sudden it, of course. A lot of people [though not me] would argue that DI and Life Boon Self-Oust give the game a trumpy kind of feel: this proposal is a suggestion to be tested as a way of making them feel happier, less, er trumped [so to speak]. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <88ehh0$dt1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, legb...@my-deja.com wrote: > In article <Pine.SOL.4.10a.100021...@red.csi.cam.ac.uk> > And Ethan, did your playtesting exactly cover my proposal which > is that IF you forgo your normal master phase THEN AND ONLY THEN can > you play an OOT master on your minion phase? Your prey or whoever can In playtest, the end of your master phase was the point where you could play OOT masters. So you could play misdirection(feh), then DI during your minion phase when they tried to wake for your bleed. Then the following Master Phase you had to forgo your 1st master phase. So to answer your question, no. We didn't try omitting the current turn's master phase to allow you to play OOT masters during your minion. How would you handle multiple master phase actions? Would you just have to forgo one, or all of them according to your proposal? > still sudden it, of course. A lot of people [though not me] would > argue that DI and Life Boon Self-Oust give the game a trumpy kind of > feel: this proposal is a suggestion to be tested as a way of making > them feel happier, less, er trumped [so to speak]. FYI, here are other examples of OOT wackiness that we saw that I recall. 1) Rush someone and play Frenzy on their vampire. Oh, and trap. 2) Night moves your prey and play major boon. Nosferatu finally get a form of bleed bounce. 3) Rush predators vamps, and play minor boon after you pound them 4) I think we saw the acting meth sudden reversal someone elses OOT as well. Don't remember which OOT was played, I think it might have been DI actually <g>. 5) And yes, the infamous DI. Which incidentally convinced the design team that playing OOT masters shouldn't be changed...but still made it into the set. While we didn't play it, Rotschrek played offensively would suck. I'd be interested to hear how others like playing OOT masters during their minion phase. It left a bad taste in our group....:-) -------------------- Ethan Burrow - Prince of Austin et...@ddg.com http://whitestar.ddg.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

> > Erk, my minion phase Direct Interventions. Eek. > OK, though i did point out in my original post that own-turn DI's could > be stinky. Effectively, however, a malkavian Madness Network deck can do > all this stuff already [as you've already pointed out in the Life Boon > thread, james]. i don't think decks of this kind can be said to break the > game. And Ethan, did your playtesting exactly cover my proposal which is > that IF you forgo your normal master phase THEN AND ONLY THEN can you > play an OOT master on your minion phase? Your prey or whoever can still > sudden it, of course. A thing to keep in mind with regards to DI: when it is played, someone is getting screwed and that is almost always the acting player. If the target of the acting player plays a DI to cancel a just played card, there is nothing the acting player can do but hope that someone else has a SR and is willing to use it. Using the above, very interesting, suggestion, the acting player would then have the ability to do something about it and DI is no longer the "no real effective counter trump card" that it is now. Sorrow --- I told the priest - don't count on any second coming. God got his ass kicked the first time he came down here slumming. He had the balls to come, the gall to die and then forgive us. No, I don't wonder why, I wonder what he thought it would get us -- Concrete Blonde

Ethan Burrow wrote: > [Regarding the playtest of OOT Masters being playable on one's own turn] > 2) Night moves your prey and play major boon. Nosferatu finally get a > form of bleed bounce. Note that this would not be legal with the current errata which specifies that Major Boon cannot be played by the controller of the acting minion. [RTR 07-JUL-1998] -- LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) V:TES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/rules.asp

In article <88eu7u$nv4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Ethan Burrow <saa...@yahoo.com> wrote: > In article <88ehh0$dt1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, > legb...@my-deja.com wrote: > > In article > <Pine.SOL.4.10a.100021...@red.csi.cam.ac.uk> > > And Ethan, did your playtesting exactly cover my proposal which > > is that IF you forgo your normal master phase THEN AND ONLY THEN can > > you play an OOT master on your minion phase? Your prey or whoever can > > In playtest, the end of your master phase was the point where you could > play OOT masters. So you could play misdirection(feh), then DI during > your minion phase when they tried to wake for your bleed. Then the > following Master Phase you had to forgo your 1st master phase. > > So to answer your question, no. We didn't try omitting the current > turn's master phase to allow you to play OOT masters during your minion. > How would you handle multiple master phase actions? Would you just > have to forgo one, or all of them according to your proposal? All of them, i now think. Tribute to the Master/Misdirection/DI would just add TOO much punch to what is already a fairly yawnsome strategy. > > > still sudden it, of course. A lot of people [though not me] would > > argue that DI and Life Boon Self-Oust give the game a trumpy kind of > > feel: this proposal is a suggestion to be tested as a way of making > > them feel happier, less, er trumped [so to speak]. > > FYI, here are other examples of OOT wackiness that we saw that I recall. > > 1) Rush someone and play Frenzy on their vampire. Oh, and trap. Good for combat decks. Hooray! > 2) Night moves your prey and play major boon. Nosferatu finally get a > form of bleed bounce. Good for Nossies. More hooray! > 3) Rush predators vamps, and play minor boon after you pound them See 1 above. > 4) I think we saw the acting meth sudden reversal someone elses OOT as > well. Don't remember which OOT was played, I think it might have been > DI actually <g>. Echoing Sorrow's point below ... Hooray! > 5) And yes, the infamous DI. Which incidentally convinced the design > team that playing OOT masters shouldn't be changed...but still made it > into the set. > > While we didn't play it, Rotschrek played offensively would suck. Hey! That's the basis of my Malky OOT rush deck! You saying i design sucky decks? O, wait, then you're right, actually. Poor old Sorrow ended up playing one of my Malky OOT rushers on-line after my Net access blew up. Alas, i was drunk when i typed it in and forgot the wakeys. > > I'd be interested to hear how others like playing OOT masters during > their minion phase. It left a bad taste in our group....:-) > No experience of it, but i think it might be an interesting variant, at least [adjusted so's not to replicate the bad experiences you guys had, of course]. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <88ggi6$q2n$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, legb...@my-deja.com wrote: > > FYI, here are other examples of OOT wackiness that we saw that I > >recall. > > > > 1) Rush someone and play Frenzy on their vampire. Oh, and trap. > > Good for combat decks. Hooray! I think too good... In fact, it'll encourage even more S:CE which I see as a bad thing. > > 3) Rush predators vamps, and play minor boon after you pound them > > See 1 above. This one I agree with actually. Pesky stealth/bleeders ;-) > > 4) I think we saw the acting meth sudden reversal someone elses OOT > > as well. Don't remember which OOT was played, I think it might have > > been DI actually <g>. > > Echoing Sorrow's point below ... Hooray! It felt too much like playing MTG blue vs. blue. We felt dirty... > > While we didn't play it, Rotschrek played offensively would suck. > > Hey! That's the basis of my Malky OOT rush deck! You saying i design > sucky decks? O, wait, then you're right, actually. I think my problem with it stems from the idea that half the rush decks in the game would start using it. At least with Malkavians and Madness Network it's not *trivial* to pull off. Imagine weenie protean rush if you could play Rotschrek during your minion phase. Bleh! -------------------------- Ethan Burrow - Prince of Austin et...@ddg.com http://whitestar.ddg.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]