Besides being a card which will *massively* impair voting decks, I惴
left scratching my head in regards to a specific scenario.
Let愀 say we are in the final round of a tournament. The table has
been relatively even for everybody, but after a few rounds everybody
is down to very, very little pool, and the first ousts look imminent.
Player A has an Anarchist Uprising in his hand, enough stealth to
bring it through and also enough votes. Everybody but him will be
ousted, so he惻l win the table with 2 VP愀 to the 1 VP everybody else
but his predator will get. When he plays the AU, however, the weenie
player at the table, with 8 minions, plays Poison Pill against his
acting vampire, and therefore ousts the acting player, too. Will the
acting player still be considered to be the last player standing, or
will Poison Pill apply before the player after the one who played
Poison Pill is ousted, ousting the acting player and therefore denying
him his 2nd VP ?
Sorry if that was a bit complicated. :)
In regard to voting decks, I ask myself if they really are *such* a
strong archetype that they deserved a card which hoses them so
completely, but in contrast we got no card which hoses bleed decks
totally? In my playgroup, vote decks always face an uphill struggle,
because other players pack so many titled vampires into their decks
that even a Justicars+IC Members deck has trouble getting enough votes
to constantly win referendums.
Magnus
"Magnus" <magn...@gmx.de> wrote in message news:70eabfe1.04051...@posting.google.com...
> Besides being a card which will *massively* impair voting decks, I惴
> left scratching my head in regards to a specific scenario.
>
> Let愀 say we are in the final round of a tournament. The table has
> been relatively even for everybody, but after a few rounds everybody
> is down to very, very little pool, and the first ousts look imminent.
> Player A has an Anarchist Uprising in his hand, enough stealth to
> bring it through and also enough votes. Everybody but him will be
> ousted, so he惻l win the table with 2 VP愀 to the 1 VP everybody else
> but his predator will get. When he plays the AU, however, the weenie
> player at the table, with 8 minions, plays Poison Pill against his
> acting vampire, and therefore ousts the acting player, too. Will the
> acting player still be considered to be the last player standing, or
> will Poison Pill apply before the player after the one who played
> Poison Pill is ousted, ousting the acting player and therefore denying
> him his 2nd VP ?
> Sorry if that was a bit complicated. :)
I understand the question... I have no clue as to the answer but I understand
the question.
> In regard to voting decks, I ask myself if they really are *such* a
> strong archetype that they deserved a card which hoses them so
> completely, but in contrast we got no card which hoses bleed decks
> totally? In my playgroup, vote decks always face an uphill struggle,
> because other players pack so many titled vampires into their decks
> that even a Justicars+IC Members deck has trouble getting enough votes
> to constantly win referendums.
I have never sat at a table that at some point in the game, at least one
minion at one point, did not bleed someone.
However I have sat at tables many times where there were no votes called
for the entire game causing pool loss.
The balancing factor of poison pill is that it has an opportunity cost, just like
any vote related card. In putting it in your deck there's a chance it will totally
useless for you. A bleed hosing card would never be useless in any deck
and takes away from the primary ousting method.
This arguement may not be pursuasive to you, but that is how I rationalize it.
-JTP
Magnus wrote:
> When he plays the AU, however, the weenie
> player at the table, with 8 minions, plays Poison Pill against his
> acting vampire, and therefore ousts the acting player, too.
Poison Pill must be played before votes. Assuming the acting Meth had
enough votes to pass the vote to begin with, s/he could easily just have
the action fail.
But, anyways, precedent for Treachery would argue that you take the pool
loss at the same time the referendum is successful, so everyone would be
ousted.
> In regard to voting decks, I ask myself if they really are *such* a
> strong archetype that they deserved a card which hoses them so
> completely, but in contrast we got no card which hoses bleed decks
> totally?
Besides bounce?
=P
> In my playgroup, vote decks always face an uphill struggle,
> because other players pack so many titled vampires into their decks
> that even a Justicars+IC Members deck has trouble getting enough votes
> to constantly win referendums.
Metagame issue then. If everyone packs titled vampires just 'cause,
vote is going to be very hard to play.
Of course, Cryptic Rider, Charming Lobby, and Malkavian Rider Clause all
get around Poison Pill, too...
--Colin McGuigan
On Thu, 20 May 2004 01:41:22 -0500, Colin McGuigan
<magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> scrawled:
>Of course, Cryptic Rider, Charming Lobby, and Malkavian Rider Clause all
>get around Poison Pill, too...
howso? the auto-pass vote merely skips the 'cast votes' bit, doesn't
it?
there is still a 'before votes are cast' phase.....i think?
salem
domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
"I like to play the field"-LSJ
salem wrote:
> On Thu, 20 May 2004 01:41:22 -0500, Colin McGuigan
> <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> scrawled:
>
>>>Of course, Cryptic Rider, Charming Lobby, and Malkavian Rider Clause all
>>get around Poison Pill, too...>
>
> howso? the auto-pass vote merely skips the 'cast votes' bit, doesn't
> it?
> there is still a 'before votes are cast' phase.....i think?
No.
Bribes, Poison Pill, etc. cannot be played on an auto-pass referendum.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
magn...@gmx.de (Magnus) wrote in message news:<70eabfe1.04051...@posting.google.com>...
> In regard to voting decks, I ask myself if they really are *such* a
> strong archetype that they deserved a card which hoses them so
> completely, but in contrast we got no card which hoses bleed decks
> totally? In my playgroup, vote decks always face an uphill struggle,
> because other players pack so many titled vampires into their decks
> that even a Justicars+IC Members deck has trouble getting enough votes
> to constantly win referendums.
Responding to myself, which I know is bad form, but I wanted to add
the following.
If we get a disciplineless vote deck hoser card, where´s the
dicipliness bleed deck hoser card? An example would be:
Counterstrike
Reaction
Only usable during a bleed action. If the bleed action resolves and
causes you to lose pool, the controller of the acting vampire loses
the same amount of pool.
Magnus
>Counterstrike
>Reaction
>Only usable during a bleed action. If the bleed action resolves and
>causes you to lose pool, the controller of the acting vampire loses
>the same amount of pool.
Isn't there already Burnt Offerings?
Halcyan 2
Magnus wrote:
> Responding to myself, which I know is bad form, but I wanted to add
> the following.
>
> If we get a disciplineless vote deck hoser card, where´s the
> dicipliness bleed deck hoser card?
I believe it's called "Archon Investigation"
--Colin McGuigan