Wishes for LoTN

So here comes soon a new epansion for my favourite Clan, and some others... ;-) I know the cards are already done, and probably printed, but still : here's what I hope the Giovanni and the rest will get out of it. - a new, good necro-ally - a card for the wraiths (possibly giving them bleed, or rush...) - new titled Giovanni that at last allow for a voting (viable) necrocrypt ! - new Giovanni with Pre or Pro - some good Anarch cards - an interesting Obt / Nec / Whatever Anarch card - new Ravnos with Dom - new Ravnos with AUS - a Setite with Pot who pays combat or Serpentis cards one less (so Typhonic Beast decks can at last rival with Horrid Form decks) - a new (not too expensive) Assamite rusher And I hope we'll get more G4 vamps and not too many (none ?) G5 yet. Do you think that might be the case ? And you, what do you hope for ? -- Orpheus ----------- "And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the Human Race Out of time and out of space And meaning..." The Rocky Horror Picture Show

> - a card for the wraiths (possibly giving them bleed, or rush...) hear, hear! Wraiths seem to be just short of really viable, one new wraith and one new wraith-support card could make interesting things happen. I'd like to see a card or effect for Bane Mummies, too. > - some good Anarch cards I'm actually expecting these, I suspect Anarch will be the secondary theme of the expansion. > And I hope we'll get more G4 vamps and not too many (none ?) G5 yet. Do you > think that might be the case ? I'd guess two or three G4 and five or six G5 for the four clans (or the five clans, if Gangrel are in it). > And you, what do you hope for ? the 'missing' G4 and G5 vampires for a few of the Independent bloodlines, maybe Samedi and Daughters anarch 3-way cards that include Abombwe or bloodline disciplines... {chi/mel/tha}, {ani/myt/qui}, {abo/vic/vis}, ... some surprising side-discipline in three or more of the Setites, and another Setite with POT advancements of old vamps, including one for G2 Ravnos an Assamite that retrieves or protects the Path of Blood, and maybe a Quietus card like < combat, cost: 1 blood qui: Only useable when this vampire's damaging strike that requires Quietus resolves. The strike inlicts one additional damage. QUI: Only useable when the opposing minion's strike to end combat resolves. Untap this vampire, and inflict one damage on the opposing minion.>, but *not* an explicit 'Dog Pack' for Quietus or Assamite a contact-removing card without impossible opportunity cost, like <+2 stealth action, requires a ready vampire, cost: X blood If this action is successful the acting vampire may burn a blood to untap. Add X-1 blood from the blood bank to an older vampire of the same clan as this acting vampire, or burn X-1 Contracts from older vampires of the same clan as this acting vampire.> some way for Giovanni to steal political power from the Ventrue or the Lasombra or the Camarilla or the Laibon or whatever is appropriate in the context of the OWoD -- I don't know the backstory myself, but I've heard enough to think something like this would make sense

> some way for Giovanni to steal political power from the Ventrue or the > Lasombra or the Camarilla or the Laibon or whatever is appropriate in > the context of the OWoD -- I don't know the backstory myself, but I've > heard enough to think something like this would make sense Very nice idea, I hope they thought about it ! ;-p Orpheus

[ quoted text not captured ] Assamites could finally get a guy who pays less for quietus... they really need that. Also some defensive cards for quietus, like intercept. Necromancy could get another non-unique wraith ally and maybe a +bleed card to help harbingers and samedi, giovanni could use few more solid midcaps, that would make their crypt look nice. Setites could use a 6 cap with all in-clan superiors or a 5 cap with two in-clan superiors, also preferably one more midcap with dominate, and someone with pot/POT. Not really sure what serpentis needs, some defense cards maybe? Ravnos desperately need more midcaps with all in-clan discplines, currently their discplines are all over the place in group 4. Chimerstry is pretty well rounded so no clue what new things to put in it. And definetily, hopefully all vampires are group 4 as there aren't nearly enough group 4 indies yet. And the missing group 4 members to the indy bloodlines would be nice. Like DoC, samedi, a bunch of gargoyles.

On Jul 10, 5:50 pm, Klaita...@gmail.com wrote: > > Assamites could finally get a guy who pays less for quietus... they > really need that. Also some defensive cards for quietus, like > intercept. > Saddam Bush Assamite:5 QUI AUS FOR Capacity 10 Saddam has 2 votes. Saddam may burn 1 blood during your untap phase to pay 1 less for Quietus cards for until your discard phase. Saddam's hand strikes are aggravated. Blood Cursed. Art by Rik Martin best - chris

A Yawp Court equivalent for Assamites, they keys off bleeds, not votes. A pre-strike S:CE beater for Quietus, in the line of Immortal Grapple. These guys are supposed to be the most feared assassins in the world of darkness. A clan so bad-ass, they almost ate the world in the Dark Ages. When someone influences out an assamite, his prey should look worried, not pleased as is often the case today. :)

Oh, and of course I forgot : the Giovanni NEED a true "special Embrace" like the other indies got, while all they had was that crappy Master Discipline... Orpheus

[ quoted text not captured ] Giovanni have dominate, they don't need swarming. :)

[ quoted text not captured ] How is a free level of Potence and Fortitude crap? Does the concept of Pot\Fort\Nec\Dom just not have all kinds of appeal. Grapple, Dead Hand, Disarm, Decap. Prevent as needed. And that Saddam Bush vamp. A 10 Cap with only 3 disciplines and only one of them Inclan. As an Assamite enthusiast, I don't like him. While I love the discipline combo, I ain't ever going to pay 10 pool for 3 disicplines. The title, agg hands and a temporary personal path just isn't worth it. The name is rather pathetic too.

On Jul 10, 5:02 pm, "Orpheus" <orpheus...@free.fr> wrote: > So here comes soon a new epansion for my favourite Clan, and some others... > ;-) <snip> > > And you, what do you hope for ? > -- > Orpheus Independents are my faves too... personally, I'm hoping for some advanced versions of the G2 11-caps, so they finally become worth playing.

[ quoted text not captured ] It's not crappy; it's just not as obvious to use as breed strategies. The Prince here just made the finals of a Qualifier with his Proxy Kissed deck.. And given past results (such as winning a storyline event and being towards the top of others, plus many constructed tournament wins), do the Giovanni really "NEED" yet another (boring, overused) way to win games? Seems to me they do pretty well without it, and thus I'd much rather see new, creative tools for them rather than a slightly- customized spawn 'like the other indies got'. > Orpheus -John Flournoy

> Oh, and of course I forgot : > > the Giovanni NEED a true "special Embrace" like the other indies got, > while > all they had was that crappy Master Discipline... > > Orpheus > Giovanni have dominate, they don't need swarming. :) he. Setites have Presence, temptations, AND swarm. ;-) The Embraces can be combat-oriented, I just want some. Orpheus

>> the Giovanni NEED a true "special Embrace" like the other indies got, >> while >> all they had was that crappy Master Discipline... > > It's not crappy; it's just not as obvious to use as breed strategies. > The Prince here just made the finals of a Qualifier with his Proxy > Kissed deck.. If you prefer the term "cornercase", then I'll use it. Remember the precise card text : "Master: out-of-turn. Put this card on a Giovanni when you move that Giovanni from your uncontrolled region to your ready region during your influence phase. This Giovanni gains one level of Potence [pot] and one level of Fortitude [for]. His or her capacity is increased by 1. Move 1 blood from the blood bank to this Giovanni." This means that : 1) It concerns solely strategies based on Pot / For, and / or strategies that involve Giovanni growing in capacity 2) The time-window is pathetically short : when the Giovanni comes into control during the Influence phase. Meaning that if you have them in hand after you control your "main minions", you'll have to either discard them or keep them in hand until you get a chance to get another one out (usually after your first kill. In other words, either you put lots in your deck and it will cluster it, or you don't put too many and it will probably be useless. I'll grant you that Legendary Vampire uses a similar window, but the impact on the game is quite different and justifies putting several in your deck to get it early. 3) Of course it concerns only Giovanni : if you make a mixed crypt this will benefit very few of your guys, and even fewer who don't already have POT (and therefore would just need a For skill) if you rely on guys like Ignazio, Benedict, Baldesar... So, all in all, I will very seldom play such a card, while the Tumninos, Waters of Duat and Web of Knives give a real edge to the concerned clans. > And given past results (such as winning a storyline event and being > towards the top of others, plus many constructed tournament wins), do > the Giovanni really "NEED" yet another (boring, overused) way to win > games? The Indies have many disadvantages compared to the main sects, and I guess that's why they were given those too. Giovanni have Dom ? Sure, so what : Setites can bleed you down too, Ravnos have Week of Nightmares... Only the Assamites really needed that... Rather, giving embraces to the Giovanni can bring different strategies from the usual "bleed in Dom", and they need such variants. Boring, you say ? Well, no more than playing only what they already can. Wasn't the Ravnos Embrace deck already boring ? Still, they made Tumninos, with some restrictions but some advantages. It is rather less boring than before, having 1 new option... > Seems to me they do pretty well without it, and thus I'd much > rather see new, creative tools for them rather than a slightly- > customized spawn 'like the other indies got'. I'll be very happy to see them get new tools too. But I'd like to see this injustice undone. And if they want to give the Setites a Pot + Ser OOT Master, let them go with it and see it Typhonic Beast wins all !! B) Orpheus

[ quoted text not captured ] They got theirs. It costs 3 blood. Cheers, B

[ quoted text not captured ] What I'd like is a new Ally. One like Hordes or Ambrosius. Something strong enough to build a deck 'round. Most of the others aren't exactly stellar. Sure there are some decent one, but nothing you focus on. It's just a couple of these or a couple of these. Setites need a Bane Mummy that people want to play like you can with the two Necro allies. Aman isn't bad, but the other two so out class him it isn't funny. Assamites need an effect way to deal with S&B decks, they get that, I expect to see quite a bit more Assamite decks, due to their combat ability. Other than that, I'd like a Thoughts Betrayed sort of combat card. Make it a rare requiring Contracts. Ravnos need an ADV vampire. Not sure what else they need aside from a few more "tricks." I wouldn't be surprised to see a Chimestry card that steals vamps, albeit temporary of course.

[ quoted text not captured ] I always thought the Giovanni's special Embrace is called Shambling Hordes.

On Jul 11, 11:12 am, "Orpheus" <orpheus...@free.fr> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Hey Orpheus, I mean really,you know very well the Giovanni don't *need* anything else at all. They have Sudario Refraction, which is like, one of the best cards in the whole game. They have Necromancy, which is like, the stuff you need to get Shamblers. They have Isabel, which is like, the most kinky woman in the game They have a 7-cap that looks like Dave Bastijns, which is enough to give any prey nightmares Face it, there's o way Giovanni can possibly lose anymore as it is.. and you want more? greedy greedy greedy... /jo

>> the Giovanni NEED a true "special Embrace" like the other indies got, >> while >> all they had was that crappy Master Discipline... >> >> Orpheus > > Hey Orpheus, Hey there mate ! > I mean really,you know very well the Giovanni don't *need* anything > else at all. Sure they do. They need to RULE THE WORLD, muahahahaha !!! > They have Sudario Refraction, which is like, one of the best cards in > the whole game. > They have Necromancy, which is like, the stuff you need to get > Shamblers. > They have Isabel, which is like, the most kinky woman in the game > They have a 7-cap that looks like Dave Bastijns, which is enough to > give any prey nightmares > Face it, there's o way Giovanni can possibly lose anymore as it is.. Uh, I guess you didn't just say what you meant to say... > and you want more? Sure ! But not the "more powerful" kind of more, rather the "more possibilities" kind of more. There are currently 2 working and very clearly determined archetypes with the Giovanni (bleeders and shamblers), and one more involving "some" Giovanni and an out-of-clan discipline (For), making for a much weaker archetype. I'd like to be able to do more things with my favourite clan. See, the Ravnos for instance can : stealth-bleed (with or without Dom or Pre), mass-bleed, wall-intercept (Ani + Draba), fight (Illusions of the Kindred, Apparition, Mayawhatever, Ani...), and of course Mass Sensory, etc etc. I could do the same with Setites. The Assamites obviously got the muddy end of the stick. And all the Indies usually are weaker than the Cammies if only because they will never have access to Parity Shift, Second Trad, PTO etc. And if I take my second favourite clan, the Lasombras, they can bleed, vote, make lots of Creation Rites, use Pre if they want, Purge Baltimore, entomb + Graverob, etc etc. So yes, I really hope to see my favourite clan get more options. > greedy greedy greedy... Always. ;-) Orpheus

On Jul 13, 12:56 am, "Orpheus" <orpheus...@free.fr> wrote: > And all the Indies usually are weaker than the Cammies if only because they > will never have access to Parity Shift, Second Trad, PTO etc. > > > > Orpheus Can anyone say merged Kemintiri :) As for things I'd like to see, no G5 vamps. The indie G4 is pretty woeful at the moment, so no G5 vamps please. More solid 5 caps for all the indie clans (a settite with 2 in-clans would be nice) I'd like to see some new allies, but I'm a bit leery on them based on the amount of focus on allies of late. Some new clan specific equipment or locations would be nice. More settites with pot would be wonderful, but I'm not holding my breath :( . Actually, enough vamps with a "common" out of clan discipline would be pretty cool, giving the option to make a greater variety of deck archetypes always keeps the game interesting. Just a few thoughts Sutekh_23

sutekh_23 wrote: > On Jul 13, 12:56 am, "Orpheus" <orpheus...@free.fr> wrote: > >> And all the Indies usually are weaker than the Cammies if only because they >> will never have access to Parity Shift, Second Trad, PTO etc. >> >> >> >> Orpheus > > Can anyone say merged Kemintiri :) > > As for things I'd like to see, no G5 vamps. The indie G4 is pretty > woeful at the moment, so no G5 vamps please. More solid 5 caps for all > the indie clans (a settite with 2 in-clans would be nice) I'd like to > see some new allies, but I'm a bit leery on them based on the amount > of focus on allies of late. my 2-second theory (ie: i haven't thought it through that much) More allies -> more anti-ally tech is viable (oportunity cost not so high) -> Imbued suffer = good thing? assuming people are of the opinion that Imbued need reigning in (something i have yet to see a need for in my personal playgroup, but accept that others have seen differently) -- salem (replace 'hotmail' with 'yahoo' to email)

[ quoted text not captured ] Imbued decks that use Gehenna need to be reigned in. Otherwise they suffer the same as normal weenie decks. Fragility. By the by, the Assamite Justicar can use some Cam stuff too.

Jyhad wrote: > Imbued decks that use Gehenna need to be reigned in. Otherwise they > suffer the same as normal weenie decks. Fragility. Have you ever seen a good imbued deck? Fragile is not a word with which I would even think to describe them.

[ quoted text not captured ] Yes. In fact, every time I've played Imbued I've won. With and without Gehenna cards.

>> > Imbued decks that use Gehenna need to be reigned in. Otherwise they >> > suffer the same as normal weenie decks. Fragility. >> >> Have you ever seen a good imbued deck? Fragile is not a word with >> which I would even think to describe them. > > Yes. In fact, every time I've played Imbued I've won. With and without > Gehenna cards. Yes, now that people begin to understand how to play them they make results. Too much in fact. :-( I thought this was a game about Vampires predating on humans, not getting their asses kicked by human zealots. ------- Orpheus

[ quoted text not captured ] Predating means to "to come before a certain date". The word you are looking for is "Preying" on humans. Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr XZealot Archon of the Swamp

On 13 Lip, 13:00, "Orpheus" <orpheus...@free.fr> wrote: > I thought this was a game about Vampires predating on humans, not getting > their asses kicked by human zealots. > ------- > Orpheus fully agree with such statement. anyway bnack to the topic - my wish list: -good Assamite Seraph -make Quietus finally worth it - atm qui have only few good cards and is one of the worst disciplines in the game :( sadly -make some independent related card = sabbat,laibon and cammies have some good cards - why indies are shafted(only free states rant is good indie card) ?

On Jul 13, 1:00 pm, "Orpheus" <orpheus...@free.fr> wrote: > >> > Imbued decks that use Gehenna need to be reigned in. Otherwise they > >> > suffer the same as normal weenie decks. Fragility. > > >> Have you ever seen a good imbued deck? Fragile is not a word with > >> which I would even think to describe them. > > > Yes. In fact, every time I've played Imbued I've won. With and without > > Gehenna cards. > > Yes, now that people begin to understand how to play them they make results. > Too much in fact. :-( people apparently don't play enough combat, especially intercept combat, and/or don't have the right dose of table hate :)) In my playgroup, Imbued are nothing more than a paper cut - annoying but harmless. Yes, if you let them set up, they are really deadly. But if you pound them from the start, they are so fragile it's funny. the gehenna is also just a nuisance, the only really dangerous card there is memories of mortality, but still - they need slots for other cards like angels of berlin, so they can't play *too* many of MoM, and even if they do, it costs them pool and they can't diablerize the vamps who are trying to get rid of it - yes, they can block the rescue, but hey, punishing a "I have just a leather jacket or a dodge" mortal for blocking you is not so hard, is it? :) i think that their success in tournaments derives much from the fact, that tournament players (from a reason unknown to me) tend to be all waiting, "table balance", "table talk" and such bullshit, which is an ideal environment for slowly developing decks. > > I thought this was a game about Vampires predating on humans, not getting > their asses kicked by human zealots. this game is about adapting to a constantly changing environment. that's how vampires manage to survive for such a long time, you know. I hate the imbued, too, but I still have the positive approach :) > ------- > Orpheus

In article <1184329726.2...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, Alias <ransom...@seznam.cz> wrote: > people apparently don't play enough combat, especially intercept > combat, and/or don't have the right dose of table hate :)) In my > playgroup, Imbued are nothing more than a paper cut - annoying but > harmless. Yes, if you let them set up, they are really deadly. But if > you pound them from the start, they are so fragile it's funny. But, see, combat doesn't actually do anything to them. Unless you have a million minions to hospitalize them *and* pillowface them in the same turn. And if you have a lot of minions, they are probably small. So they get Convictioned into torpor after the pillowfacing. Beating up an Imbued is easy, except that you can't Haven Uncovered them, Fame them, or Taste their Vitae (or Disarm or Decapitate them...), all of which are a drag for a combat deck. And when you do beat them into the hospital, they are coming out of the hospital at the start of the next turn, regardless of whose turn it is for 2 conviction with no action at all due to Jennie (as every Imbued deck uses Jennie). So beating them into the hospital isn't doing much other than letting you spin your wheels. Yeah, you can probably kill and eat every Imbued that hits the table if you are playing a dedicated Rush deck before they take any actions and get set up at all, in which case you are just giving your grand prey a totally free ride while you whittle away the Imbued pool sack. Which isn't horrible if you are the Imbued's predator, but if you are the Rush deck and the Imbued is *your* predator? You are just going to spend the whole game backousting and give the game to your prey? > i think that their success in tournaments derives much from the fact, > that tournament players (from a reason unknown to me) tend to be all > waiting, "table balance", "table talk" and such bullshit, which is an > ideal environment for slowly developing decks. Well, no. It is 'cause they are actually pretty strong. Peter D Bakija pd...@lightlink.com http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/vtes.html

On Jul 13, 8:56 am, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: > In article <1184329726.249150.186...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > > i think that their success in tournaments derives much from the fact, > > that tournament players (from a reason unknown to me) tend to be all > > waiting, "table balance", "table talk" and such bullshit, which is an > > ideal environment for slowly developing decks. > > Well, no. It is 'cause they are actually pretty strong. Actually it's because not enough people play animalism. witness1

On Jul 13, 8:56 am, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: > In article <1184329726.249150.186...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > [ quoted text not captured ] > p...@lightlink.comhttp://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/vtes.html I'm amazed at the statement that if you don't let them tool up they are easy. That applies to many decks, not just imbued. However, not all imbued decks need to tool up. And I don't know 'bout you. But how many non potence or animalism decks can deal with a conceal Flash Grenade, which is my weapon of choice with them. I don't actually like playing them, but I built the deck because I got enough cards from the Prerelease to build one. And to show how dangerous they could be. Not because I actually bought any more. Which I didn't, but that's another point. A few clans have little trouble killing Imbued. Assamites for example have a couple cards that do extra damage to allies. Their Contracts allow them to rush them. Potence clans should have no problems dunking them. Tzimisce as well. However, Gehenna is more problematic than some mentioned. I had one game where I had so many Gehenna out, that all the Vamps were lower in capacity than me, there was no cam or sabbat, and disciplines were hard to play. I wouldn't expect an Assamite Seraph. Unless they made one and then had an ADV version where he went Indy. Which is what happened with at least one of the former Seraphs in the RPG. Also, quietus is quite alright. Aside from a bounce or bleed fails card, a proactive counter to SCE for Assamites, and a Succubus Club in order to extort pool from "marks." That's what the Assamites need. Setites need a cool affordable Bane Mummy along the lines of Ambrosius or the Hordes. Where the snakes will build a deck using him or her. As well as some alternate means of combat. Ravnos desperately need an ADV vamp. And they need some new tricks up their sleeves. Giovanni, need some new useful Necro tricks and allies. I'd also like to see at least one or two more Gio with Pot\Fort in some capacity.

On Jul 13, 2:56 pm, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: > In article <1184329726.249150.186...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > > Alias <ransom.st...@seznam.cz> wrote: > > people apparently don't play enough combat, especially intercept > > combat, and/or don't have the right dose of table hate :)) In my > > playgroup, Imbued are nothing more than a paper cut - annoying but > > harmless. Yes, if you let them set up, they are really deadly. But if > > you pound them from the start, they are so fragile it's funny. > > But, see, combat doesn't actually do anything to them. Unless you have a > million minions to hospitalize them *and* pillowface them in the same > turn. And if you have a lot of minions, they are probably small. So they > get Convictioned into torpor after the pillowfacing. > > Beating up an Imbued is easy, except that you can't Haven Uncovered > them, Fame them, or Taste their Vitae (or Disarm or Decapitate them...), > all of which are a drag for a combat deck. And when you do beat them I wrote exactly the same yesterday in a thread about weenie POT. you don't have to repeat it to me. > into the hospital, they are coming out of the hospital at the start of > the next turn, regardless of whose turn it is for 2 conviction with no > action at all due to Jennie (as every Imbued deck uses Jennie). So > beating them into the hospital isn't doing much other than letting you > spin your wheels. That is what I am talking about. if you give them enough time, you are doomed. (btw you should read more and write less :)) - kill them before they amass convictions, or harrass them consistently to prevent them from amassing them. they don't have an unlimited supply (even though it seems so sometimes) > > Yeah, you can probably kill and eat every Imbued that hits the table if > you are playing a dedicated Rush deck before they take any actions and no, you really don't need anything "dedicated", you need just one or two intercept and simple combat package like bats+crows or WWS/pursuit or theft/apportation. really, should I teach YOU how to play combat effectively? :-o > get set up at all, in which case you are just giving your grand prey a > totally free ride while you whittle away the Imbued pool sack. Which > isn't horrible if you are the Imbued's predator, but if you are the Rush > deck and the Imbued is *your* predator? You are just going to spend the > whole game backousting and give the game to your prey? that's what rush decks do, spend the whole game backousting :)) see the other thread about weenie POT, as mentioned above. > > > i think that their success in tournaments derives much from the fact, > > that tournament players (from a reason unknown to me) tend to be all > > waiting, "table balance", "table talk" and such bullshit, which is an > > ideal environment for slowly developing decks. > > Well, no. It is 'cause they are actually pretty strong. well, if you run out of arguments, you can always use stylish laconical statements :-P but seriously. they CAN be really strong, IF you give them time to set up. that's what I'm saying. read more, write less :) [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <1184333106....@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, Alias <ransom...@seznam.cz> wrote: > I wrote exactly the same yesterday in a thread about weenie POT. you > don't have to repeat it to me. Well, see, this is the internet, and not everyone reads everything you write, so while it might seem like I am repeating it to you, I'm not actually, as I wasn't following your discussion yesterday. Which I know is a pain in the ass, but it isn't intentional. > That is what I am talking about. if you give them enough time, you are > doomed. (btw you should read more and write less :) I'm not your #1 fan and not internet stalking you. And up till this very message (which was about the Imbued and not about Wishes for LoTN, which wasn't real interesting), I wasn't actually reading this thread other than a simple scan. So while I apologize for retreading your previous discussion, well, it happens. > ) - kill them > before they amass convictions, or harrass them consistently to prevent > them from amassing them. they don't have an unlimited supply (even > though it seems so sometimes) If you are their predator, totally demolishing them before they take actions isn't that far out of the realm of useful and possible, assuming that you have consistent Rush available (that isn't based on Haven Uncovered or Taunt the Caged Beast...). And all your vampires don't get Memoried. Even then, due to not being able to make them lose pool with Fame, Tension, and Dragon Bound, the ousting will be a long, slow process. Especially if the Imbued guy just walls up and stops influencing as soon as you blow up his first minion. > no, you really don't need anything "dedicated", you need just one or > two intercept and simple combat package like bats+crows or WWS/pursuit > or theft/apportation. really, should I teach YOU how to play combat > effectively? :-o If you aren't a dedicated Rush deck, you aren't going to kill them effectively if they are your prey. If you demonstrate that you can reliably block them with +2 intercept early on, they just stop powering up and go forward instead. If you are their prey, walling up to stop the Imbued isn't getting you far, in the forward momentum direction. > that's what rush decks do, spend the whole game backousting :)) see > the other thread about weenie POT, as mentioned above. Yeah, see, the weenie POT decks that actually win games *don't* spend the whole game backousting. 'Cause then they just, maybe, get 2VPs. Which does not a game win make. And you can get 2VPs by being the last deck standing with a million different, all mostly bad, decks. > but seriously. they CAN be really strong, IF you give them time to set > up. that's what I'm saying. read more, write less :) *If* you give them time to set up. Sometimes you have no choice. Sometimes, it is a bad idea to just vaporize them from the get go, as they are your predator. See, you seem to be under the impression that it is somehow good for the game to act irrationally in the face of the Imbued (i.e. switch into "must kill them regardless of where they are at the table!" mode when you see them, rather than "play a sane game of VTES" mode), which it is not. If you just back oust them, all you do is make someone else win the game. If you just cross table destroy them, you just make someone else win the game. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <1184331763.0...@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, witness1 <jwnew...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > Actually it's because not enough people play animalism. I dunno, man. I play an awful lot of animalism. And the Imbued are still pretty tough. Yeah, the intercept/crows/bats kills them pretty well, but then they just pop back up and start going forward instead of powering up. Is the problem actually that not enough people play animalism and Eagle's Sight? [ quoted text not captured ]

On Jul 13, 9:46 am, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: > In article <1184331763.037921.230...@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, > > witness1 <jwnewqu...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > Actually it's because not enough people play animalism. > > I dunno, man. I play an awful lot of animalism. And the Imbued are still > pretty tough. Yeah, the intercept/crows/bats kills them pretty well, but > then they just pop back up and start going forward instead of powering > up. Is the problem actually that not enough people play animalism and > Eagle's Sight? It was more of a joke, though animalism is the biggest bane of (my) imbued decks. The imbued are largely strong because they have couple of strong strategies they can latch onto, and if you don't know which one you're up against you can end up playing into their hands when you think you're not. In one recent game I had to beg for a cross-table Break the Code rush so I could move all my Concealed Weapons, as I was having trouble getting into combat with my predator (Break the Code made it hard to block his guys) and my prey (who just refused to block anything I did because she knew I was going to hit her with Flash Grenades and lock her deck up). Most of my guys were sitting on one Conviction each because I couldn't move my deck. I did a whole lot of bleeding for 1 and my grandprey's stealth-vote deck ended up sweeping the table. Some of my other decks would have flourished in the same situation, of course. "Get 30 powers? Don't mind if I do!" witness1

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007, witness1 wrote: [on Imbued being baroken] > Actually it's because not enough people play animalism. > > witness1 I'm shocked to hear that from you of all people on this list. You really think animalism beats Imbued? I've never had any real trouble with an animalism deck. Sure, they'll slow me down a bit and maybe I'll lose a guy or two, but I always succeed in ousting them. The ways I've seen Imbued get killed are: 1) stealth vote 2) the Imbued deck sucks or is played badly 3) massive stealth bleed 4) Smiling Jack that didn't get Suddened or contested by the Imbued deck I've been experimenting with Anarch Revolt decks which would obviously feature built-in anti-Imbued tech. But I haven't quite gotten them to work against vampire decks yet, heh. :) Matt Morgan

On Jul 13, 3:43 pm, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: > In article <1184333106.903964.77...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, > > Alias <ransom.st...@seznam.cz> wrote: > > I wrote exactly the same yesterday in a thread about weenie POT. you > > don't have to repeat it to me. > > Well, see, this is the internet, and not everyone reads everything you > write, so while it might seem like I am repeating it to you, I'm not > actually, as I wasn't following your discussion yesterday. Which I know > is a pain in the ass, but it isn't intentional. > > > That is what I am talking about. if you give them enough time, you are > > doomed. (btw you should read more and write less :) > > I'm not your #1 fan and not internet stalking you. And up till this very > message (which was about the Imbued and not about Wishes for LoTN, which > wasn't real interesting), I wasn't actually reading this thread other > than a simple scan. So while I apologize for retreading your previous > discussion, well, it happens. I understand, nothing personal, it's just annoying for me to formulate the same statements over and over again, especially in English, where I write slower of course. [ quoted text not captured ] i simply played devils advocate for people saying that Imbued are too strong. If a deck is too strong and on top of that hurts everybody (gehenna, oust mechanisms of combat decks dont work etc), its perfectly rational to backoust, or maybe even crosstable oust. please also note the good, although admittedly controversial long term effect of "must kill them regardless of where they are at the table!" - over time, people usually stop playing decks which attract too much table hate - there is nothing fun on being always bullied by whole table, unless you have a sadomasochistic personality :) [ quoted text not captured ]

On Jul 13, 10:33 am, "Matthew T. Morgan" <farq...@io.com> wrote: > On Fri, 13 Jul 2007, witness1 wrote: > > [on Imbued being baroken] > > > Actually it's because not enough people play animalism. > > > witness1 > > I'm shocked to hear that from you of all people on this list. You really > think animalism beats Imbued? I've never had any real trouble with an > animalism deck. Sure, they'll slow me down a bit and maybe I'll lose a > guy or two, but I always succeed in ousting them. As I said in my reply to Peter, I'm partly joking here. I play against a LOT of animalism here in Atlanta. And it beats me a fair amount of the time, though a lot of that has to do with the fact that I'm playing against good players who've adapted well to the existence of the imbued (and the fact that I play them so much). Still, animalism has a lot to recommend itself against the imbued: 1) Permacept (stops power build-up) 2) Crows + Bats (gets around Memories of Mortality, avoids simple Strike With Conviction combat) 3) Untap (negates Flash-Grenade lockdown) 4) Canine Horde/Terror Frenzy (stops other equipment-based imbued strategies, including shutting down Cleave pretty hard) And all of these things are going to be in your deck _anyway_. There's nothing specifically anti-imbued about it, except maybe that you're using Terror Frenzy (which works on imbued) instead of Drawing Out the Beast (which doesn't). > The ways I've seen Imbued get killed are: > > 1) stealth vote > 2) the Imbued deck sucks or is played badly > 3) massive stealth bleed > 4) Smiling Jack that didn't get Suddened or contested by the Imbued deck That's mostly it, though there's more to the game than not-dying. Last game I played it was point 4 that killed me directly, but there was no way I was going to oust my ANI prey anyway. She had way too much untap and enough intercept (i.e., 1) to counter any Second Sight on forward actions. I'd get a couple bleeds through, but not enough to stop her from ousting her prey. Add Anarch Revolt here (three of these ousted me one game in the NAC - though only because the other two players left in the game ganged up on me). Point 3 is the only reason I still include Champion in decks (and the only reason Paralyze This! has any powers in it at all). It's a craptacularly bad card in 90% of the games I play, but I still feel like I have to hamper myself with it because somebody might bleed me for 9 at 7 stealth. Add in to point 2 the possibility that the imbued just gets deck- screwed. I've had it happen to me enough times (with decks that are normally very reliable) to know that it can hurt. Especially if the other players pick up on it and act accordingly. And Stealth-Vote sucks a lot, too. Witness1

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007, Alias wrote: > i simply played devils advocate for people saying that Imbued are too > strong. If a deck is too strong and on top of that hurts everybody > (gehenna, oust mechanisms of combat decks dont work etc), its > perfectly rational to backoust, or maybe even crosstable oust. > please also note the good, although admittedly controversial long term > effect of "must kill them regardless of where they are at the table!" > - over time, people usually stop playing decks which attract too much > table hate - there is nothing fun on being always bullied by whole > table, unless you have a sadomasochistic personality :) I understand the theory here, but not the practice. You want to Nergalize the Imbued deck. Well, not every deck is capable of cross-table action. Say the grandprey of the Imbued deck is playing DOM/OBT stealth bleed. What's that guy supposed to do while the table gangs up on the Imbued? Just sit there? Suppose he refuses to and wants to go forward. Does the table gang up on him instead? Or imagine he agrees to not go forward until the Imbued are dead because he's drawn a hand of 6 Govern the Unaligned and will merrily play them at superior for a while. That guy is going to win the game. Is that your desired result? Matt Morgan

> Add Anarch Revolt here (three of these > ousted me one game in the NAC - though only because the other two > players left in the game ganged up on me). <XZealot picks nugget of witness1-flesh out of his teeth> Still tastes as good now as it did then. Savor the Flavor baby! :) [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <1184338001.5...@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>, Alias <ransom...@seznam.cz> wrote: > I understand, nothing personal, it's just annoying for me to formulate > the same statements over and over again, especially in English, where > I write slower of course. Oh, I totally understand--I spend a lot of time being all like (in my head) "I just said that two posts ago! For the love of punk rock! Why do have to continually repeat myself!", so I totally know where you are coming from. But, ya know, one of the flaws of the medium. > i simply played devils advocate for people saying that Imbued are too > strong. Oh. Ok then. Never mind :-) I blame the medium. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 06:16:15 -0700, Jyhad <jy...@storageannex.com> wrote: > >I wouldn't expect an Assamite Seraph. Unless they made one and then >had an ADV version where he went Indy. Which is what happened with at >least one of the former Seraphs in the RPG. Why not? I mean the RPG is a source for CCG but not an unshakeable base. After all we are after Gehhena in CCG already, so this all should be gone by now.;) Lasombra has two seraphs in CCG and they had not so much to say in the RPG Black Hand. Printing Elimelech and Corvius is rather a sign that we can expect sooner or later there will be Izhim or Djuhah. And Djuhah for example wouldn't be the first printed vamp that is dead in the RPG (ehm .. destroyed would be a better word I guess;)). So there is hope there will be another Assamite seraph, probably in group 5..;) Y.

[ quoted text not captured ] And both will either be Indy or have an Adv that makes them Indy as both dissappeared from Black Hand Radar. At the same time the breaking of the curse occurred. Which implies they went back home like so many others did. Though you are right, it wouldn't be the first time a printed vamp turned out to be deceased in the RPG. Look at Enzo Giovanni.

[ quoted text not captured ] > Giovanni.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Everyone here has valid points I personally preffer to keep imbude at bay with THA theft theft theft and the occasional blood to water hehe I just liquifyed your bitch ass. I would like to see the Baali Victory card in this set which is a very good possibility. I do agree that the assamites need a more proactive means of thwarting SCE since psyche! usually is not enough unless you have several in hand. I do not dabble with the 4 main indy clans I play alot of sabbat/blood line clans what I have seen lacking for the clans is Gios need a better way to keep/ gain blood that dosnt include adding 15 a plus card mod to do so and a better way to gain votes that does not include going outside of the clan to do so and of coarse a new NEC ally. the setites need new vamps that have better in clan spreads and new specials that do not deal with corruption counter sillyness. I do not think the ravnos need alot their strong maybee a few new vamps and some cheap CHI cards. and the assies geez what dont they need I would start with some cheap qui cards that are not so corner case that they sit in your collection box never to see the light of day again maybee 2 more G4 AUS QUI assies would also help. I personally want a new 7-8 cap G4 Baali with all in clan superior and a wicked table hosing special.

[ quoted text not captured ] > Giovanni.- Piilota siteerattu teksti - > > - Näytä siteerattu teksti - Djuhah didn't vanish, he was killed by Tariq, so he probably would be sabbat, and group 5, since the black hand vampires in group 4 are full already, as demonstrated by SoC. Also, the best discpline against imbued is obteneration. It has both 'imbued can't block me' card (tenebrous form) and 'burn imbued' card (entombment) which are both also usable against vampires. And obteneration also comes with dominate usually which I heard is rather good discpline generalyl, and just happens to include a steal ally card among other goodies. Also you have Quincy who has built-in blow up imbued abililty who has both of these discplines. So if you want to nuke imbued while still remain effective against other decks, play lasombra/kiasyd. :)

[ quoted text not captured ] Yes, he was technically killed by Tariq. All the more reason, why I wouldn't expect more Seraphs. However sometimes deaths are exagerated. Look at Anatole, how many times has he died in the RPG?

On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 11:21:12 -0700, Jyhad <jy...@storageannex.com> wrote: > >Yes, he was technically killed by Tariq. All the more reason, why I >wouldn't expect more Seraphs. However sometimes deaths are exagerated. >Look at Anatole, how many times has he died in the RPG? Parmenides If I remember correctly can be considered deceased, Joe "Boot" Hill as well (and he's Black Hand even). So among Assamites there are already ex-vampires. And Corvius was destroyed by Elimelech (which made him seraph in place of Corvius) and they both were printed in SoC.;) But Izhim never went Indy, not formally at least. His position was kinda undefined. He was in the Underworld organizing the Manus Nigrum after destruction of Enoch. So now they may print him as Seraph of the Black Hand and when (if ever) they will print expansion about Inconnu/Manus Nigrum they may print his advanced Indy version. Anyway I agree, if they print any seraph for Assamites it will be group 5, no doubt. Y.

> Also, the best discpline against imbued is obteneration. It has both > 'imbued can't block me' card (tenebrous form) What has been the ruling on this ? [obt] +1 stealth. [OBT] As above, and minions without Obtenebration must pay 1 blood to attempt to block. The text states "minions" but speaks of "blood", so life can't be burned ? ------- Orpheus

[ quoted text not captured ] Minions who don't have blood to burn cannot burn blood.

[ quoted text not captured ] Allies don't have blood, so can't burn blood to attempt to block. It sucks and I hate it. witness1

> Allies don't have blood, so can't burn blood to attempt to block. It > sucks and I hate it. > > witness1 You mean, half as much as we hate the "no Taste of Vitae" (or Disarm, or Fame, or...) on Imbued ? ;-) O.

[ quoted text not captured ] No, I hate it at least twice as much as you hate all that jazz. But I realize that there are irritations all around. witness1

[ quoted text not captured ] I think his earlier quote says all you need to know: "i think that their success in tournaments derives much from the fact, that tournament players (from a reason unknown to me) tend to be all waiting, "table balance", "table talk" and such bullshit, which is an ideal environment for slowly developing decks. " Which a/ is wrong: most tournements don't allow for slow build up decks. b/ shows a lack of understanding of table dynamics on a 5 player table. c/ is arrogant as hell.

[ quoted text not captured ] > c/ is arrogant as hell.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - d) there is a Czech proverb saying "The struck goose quacks the most" I guess you can figure out the meaning, my precious little goose :) e) calling somebody arrogant and accusing him of lack of understanding of game basics at the same time is.. uh.. arrogant?

[ quoted text not captured ] yes, i understand. And no, you're wrong. I'm not a waiting player. I just don't play without keeping an eye on table balance. You're the one making the sweeping generalisation, I call you on them. You defend them by saying: "I know you are, but what am I" or some other play ground saying. > > e) calling somebody arrogant and accusing him of lack of understanding > of game basics at the same time is.. uh.. arrogant?- Counter-arrogance. And, if you think that things like table balance are bullshit (note: I'm not necesarily talking about table talk) Then I stand by my point: You don't understand the mechanics of the game. Or you do, and you are doing some kind of macho posing that doesn't serve any purpose.

Orpheus a écrit : > So here comes soon a new epansion for my favourite Clan, and some others... > ;-) (snip) > > And you, what do you hope for ? I hope for some GOOD ART. I know it's stupid to try to separate Good art from Bad art. So what is bad art ? compare Black annis and Selma the repugnant and you'll start to have an idea. Same type of vampire (nosferatu), same setting (cemetary) and same old woman-vampire. One is crap because with a blue, long nosed goblin on it, it fails to render the shock, horror, fear, such an apparition would inspire to the viewer's heart : just a bad halloween illustration. the other is now a classic because there is something creepy and horrid in this vision. Yet one of the picture is like twelve years older than the other. If someone can explain me how it is difficult to find new talents in the internet era where hundreds of people are putting their work online in hope of being scouted by game companies... I want Vampire looking vampires. Amongst other no-no's, I don't want no David-Day-crayola-based art. please. for the rest i can only rely on the design team. The set should be finished now anyway. The thing we can ask is good art.

[ quoted text not captured ] Man I like David Days art, like look at Janni, that picture is awesome. Overall, the art has been quite good in the past few sets, with few exceptions. Though I think my favorite set ever artwise is still LoB. Especially the Osebo crypt looks awesome.

On 11 heinä, 15:15, Jyhad <jy...@storageannex.com> wrote: > On Jul 11, 5:12 am, "Orpheus" <orpheus...@free.fr> wrote: > > > Oh, and of course I forgot : > > > the Giovanni NEED a true "special Embrace" like the other indies got, while > > all they had was that crappy Master Discipline... > > > Orpheus > > How is a free level of Potence and Fortitude crap? Does the concept of > Pot\Fort\Nec\Dom just not have all kinds of appeal. Grapple, Dead > Hand, Disarm, Decap. Prevent as needed. > > And that Saddam Bush vamp. A 10 Cap with only 3 disciplines and only > one of them Inclan. As an Assamite enthusiast, I don't like him. While > I love the discipline combo, I ain't ever going to pay 10 pool for 3 > disicplines. The title, agg hands and a temporary personal path just > isn't worth it. The name is rather pathetic too. The ideal assamite I would like to see would be like this... 7 cap CEL OBF QUI Independent: <Name> pays one less for cards that require Quietus. <Name> gets an optional manuever each combat. (Blood Cursed) As a side note, assamites still don't have any below 8 caps with all in-clans at superior, whereas for example Giovanni got two 7 caps that do, and ravnos got a 6 cap who does. Only setites are even more badly screwed crypt wise.

[ quoted text not captured ] Qufur am-Heru last time i checked have SER OBF PRE /cel tha/ and was 7 cap <lol> anyway :D Perfect Assamite Djuhah 7 cap 4 group CEL OBF QUI Sabbat.Black Hand Seraph:+1 intercept.Blood Curse Doesn't affect Djuhah.

> Man I like David Days art, like look at Janni, that picture is awesome Janni's picture can seem ok. Now, if you look a little better, you'll see that, as for Ezekiel and the others, the picture has no background, is desperately flat and totally devoid of any kind of atmosphere (which I believe is Reyda's main concern). Still, that's about the best he can do, and he's much worse on library cards than on portraits. On my G4 Assamites page, though, Matt Mitchell's Olugbenga, Snelly's pathetic Di Carlo or Steve Ellis' Vardar (too cartoony) look much worse than Janni. OTOH Shy, Stowe, "one-year before" Snelly (Reza Fatir) or even Leblanc's Amaravati look much better (although with less breast showing, if that's what moves your opinion). Looks like even Day and LeBlanc (and of course Snelly) can make nice pictures when they take the time. Maybe they should choose not to do the work rather than doing it hastily (= badly) ? ------- Orpheus

Klai...@gmail.com a écrit : > On 16 heinä, 15:48, reyda <true_re...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>I want Vampire looking vampires. >>Amongst other no-no's, I don't want no David-Day-crayola-based art. please. >> >>for the rest i can only rely on the design team. The set should be >>finished now anyway. The thing we can ask is good art. > > > Man I like David Days art, like look at Janni, that picture is > awesome. English being a second language, i am quite astonished to realize that i didn't know the precise meaning of the word awesome. Awesome means Amateurish. Ok, i'll save that for later ;) > Overall, the art has been quite good in the past few sets, > with few exceptions. Though I think my favorite set ever artwise is > still LoB. Especially the Osebo crypt looks awesome. you mean the osebo ? -Cesewao (abrar ajmal) is good, yes. Dynamic and impressive. -Homa (ken meyer jr) is plain crap. -Idrissa (matt mitchell) is just too awful and awkward to pass as a 3 years old kid's creation. Really, it's a piece of cat poo : if you don't believe me look at the picture hosted by vtes.pl http://vtes.pl/index.php?m=2&szukv=848&ln=en (by the way, i've always wanted thank you for the database, guys ! ;) ) -Ismitta (rebecca guay) is ok as a portrait but in no way looks like a vampire. At most, it's a student or teacher. Not a bloodsucking monster. -Kamaria (rebecca guay) Good, but hey, we want vampires, not a mage from magic the gathering. Or does auspex and potence allow you to create miraculous globes of lights ? In any case the illustration is by no mean what you could expect from an african vampire. -Khalu (ken meyer jr) Despite the awkward anatomic depiction of this character, i must say the illustration tries to convey something. It's a nice illustration which serves its purpose right, imho. -Massassi (Arbar ajmal) the thematic is good, the character looks scary and has a good attitude. not to mention big breasts. I'm ok with this one (even with the cheesy see-through tunic ;) ) -Misrak (rebecca guay) is jacky brown in a green dress. Looks african enough, with the stick (all african carry sticks when they walk around, you didn't know ? ) and regarding her capacity, looks quite like a human. So I am ok with this one. -Tatu Sawosa (ken meyer jr) has some skeletal problems... Or is it the leopard coming out of her ass ?? :) The picture is cheesy AND badly executed. Look at the legs for caine's sake ! And the same cheesy background of cloudy sky and vaguely savanna looking vegetation copyrighted by ken meyer jr. C.R.A.P. Come on Ken, i know what you did in the previous sets... You painted some very good art (succubus, Lisette Vizquel). What happened to you ? -Uzoma (Rik Martin) is a fighter, has scraification, is scary. I'm not fond of Rik's art, but at least it is representative of the game. Despite the lacking of a proper background i'll say that I like it. -Kisha bilji (Ken meyer jr) is interesting. Cheesy and malformed lion put aside, it's quite good. the character looks wise, which incidentally goes along with the title. The fact she is represented by day is ok since laibon have aye and stuff to help them endure the sunlight iirc. At least it is in the mood of the LOB expansion. I'd say i like it despite the background of cloudy sky and all... With half ov the vampires being crap, i must say it's not the clan who got the best treatment from LoB. Again, i'm only a player and not an art teacher, i have only an 'awesome' view on this :) r.

[ quoted text not captured ] Yes setites have that, but look at the below 7 caps from setites. Before black hand they had none with any two discplines at superior below 7 cap, now they have at least got 2 six caps with 2 superiors. But yeah, assamites are only indy clan who don't have any below 8 caps with all in-clans at superior.

[ quoted text not captured ] The perfect Assamite has both a rush and the ability that opposing vamps can't end combat as a strike. Not to mention Superior Quietus.

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 13:32:25 -0700, Jyhad <jy...@storageannex.com> wrote: >> Perfect Assamite >> Djuhah >> 7 cap 4 group >> CEL OBF QUI >> Sabbat.Black Hand Seraph:+1 intercept.Blood Curse Doesn't affect >> Djuhah. > > The perfect Assamite has both a rush and the ability that opposing > vamps can't end combat as a strike. Not to mention Superior Quietus. Perfect Assamite Duh 7-cap CEL OBF QUI Independent: Duh can enter combat with any titled Camarilla vampire as a +1 stealth action. Opposing minions cannot use strikes to end combat. As a strike Duh can burn opposing Arika. :-) -- Regards, Daneel

Wished-for reprints in the precons: Heart of Nizchetus The Unmasking Yawp Court (highly unlikely in these decks, I know...) Heart of the City Wash Frontal Assault Mirror Walk (also unlikely as I can't think of any reason for Thaumaturgy in independents) Paths of Bone and Paradox (Blood and Typhon, too, to be sure - but the Paths of Bone and Paradox are far more underprinted right now) and some casual stuff that could use reprinting: Conditioning (hasn't been printed since Camarilla Edition - can you believe that?!?) Direct Intervention (still aren't enough of these for demand) Freak Drive (there are never enough of these by a long shot) The Parthenon (despite reprints in LoB and 3rd, they're way underprinted) I'm sure there are a couple dozen or so more I'm not thinking of at the moment. These are the ones beating on my head at the minute. Fred

"Jyhad" <jy...@storageannex.com> wrote in message news:1184156105....@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... > On Jul 11, 5:12 am, "Orpheus" <orpheus...@free.fr> wrote: >> the Giovanni NEED a true "special Embrace" like the other indies got, while >> all they had was that crappy Master Discipline... > > How is a free level of Potence and Fortitude crap? Does the concept of > Pot\Fort\Nec\Dom just not have all kinds of appeal. Grapple, Dead > Hand, Disarm, Decap. Prevent as needed. Sure. Proxy Kissed is a real good card if you can actually play it. But the huge honking problem with it is that the opportunity to play it is so limited. It's like Legendary Vampire except you have to be holding it during your influence phase (a slight disadvantage, I think, as you couldn't draw into it over the course of other players' turns). And it's not nearly as a good a card as Legendary Vampire, which repays its opportunity cost downside much more handsomely. I just don't think Proxy Kissed is worth bothering with unless you can think of a deck where your vampires are going in and out of the uncontrolled area constantly or something. Fred

[ quoted text not captured ] I wouldn't hold my breath for too many cards that were just released in the PREVIOUS set to be reprinted yet. Also Unmasking isn't likely to show up in starters, unless the giovanni starter is some shambling hordes deck, which I doubt. I would expect to see the paths instead.

On 18 heinä, 19:12, reyda <true_re...@hotmail.com> wrote: > Klaita...@gmail.com a écrit : > > > On 16 heinä, 15:48, reyda <true_re...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >>I want Vampire looking vampires. > >>Amongst other no-no's, I don't want no David-Day-crayola-based art. please. > > >>for the rest i can only rely on the design team. The set should be > >>finished now anyway. The thing we can ask is good art. > > > Man I like David Days art, like look at Janni, that picture is > > awesome. > > English being a second language, i am quite astonished to realize that i > didn't know the precise meaning of the word awesome. > Awesome means Amateurish. Ok, i'll save that for later ;) > > > Overall, the art has been quite good in the past few sets, > > with few exceptions. Though I think my favorite set ever artwise is > > still LoB. Especially the Osebo crypt looks awesome. > > you mean the osebo ? > -Cesewao (abrar ajmal) is good, yes. Dynamic and impressive. > > -Homa (ken meyer jr) is plain crap. > > -Idrissa (matt mitchell) is just too awful and awkward to pass as a 3 > years old kid's creation. Really, it's a piece of cat poo : if you don't > believe me look at the picture hosted by vtes.plhttp://vtes.pl/index.php?m=2&szukv=848&ln=en(by the way, i've always [ quoted text not captured ] Well we just have to agree to disagree then as Tatu Sawosa is one of my favorite vampire pictures in the whole game. If you actually pay attention to the picture you notice the leopard is leaning against her leg front of her, which is why you can't see her leg fully, not because she has 'skeletal problems'. Also the laibon vampires for most parts look more human than the european ones, so its ok that some of them look rather human, like Ismitta (aka the exchange student). Not every vampire has to look like Beast.While I am not a huge fan of Matt Mitchell, as he has bit of the Shy problem of all of his work looking alike, but Idrissa is still among the better of his work, that background is really nice, and one Mitchell portrait per clan is nice number since then it doesn't look repetitive, unlike the Akunanse crypt. I am not huge fan of Rebecca Guay (although Madame Guil looks nice) so I agree with you on Ismitta. What do you have against lions anyway? You seem to complain about every picture that has a cat in it. I at least much prefer pictures with backgrounds.