Torn Signpost

Still working on my Brujah deck - next question: How exactly does Torn Signpost work. The errata text says: "[pot] This vampire has a strength of 2 for the remainder of combat. [POT] As above, but the vampire has a strength of 3 for the remainder of the combat." So if Bianca [pot, pre, CEL; +1 hand dmg] uses Torn Signpost at inferior does she get strength 2 or 3? If she plays Undead Strength as a strike, does she gain 1 additional strength for that strike? If she uses Fists of Death (["pot] This vampire gets +1 <strength> for the remainder of the combat. [POT] As above, but with +2 <strength>") in addition to Torn Signpost will she get an extra +1 strength? What about weapons? In other words, is the Strength gained by a Torn Signpost a fixed number or can it be modified by other effects? I would guess that there must be some kind of limitation to Torn Signpost, because otherwise it would be unbalanced in comparison with Fists of Death which costs one blood, while Torn Signpost is free. My best guess would be that the Vampire's inherent strength boni are ignored with Torn Signpost, while other modifiers do apply (including weapons). Help? M.

"mostly harmless" <mostlyh...@chello.at> a écrit dans le message news: > How exactly does Torn Signpost work. The errata text says: > > "[pot] This vampire has a strength of 2 for the remainder of combat. > [POT] As above, but the vampire has a strength of 3 for the remainder > of the combat." > > So if Bianca [pot, pre, CEL; +1 hand dmg] uses Torn Signpost at > inferior does she get strength 2 or 3? Bianca, by playing the card, sets her base strength to 2 Since she has +1 hand damage (+1 strength as we say now) she has a current strentght of 2+1 = 3 for this combat. > If she plays Undead Strength as a strike, does she gain 1 additional > strength for that strike? Technically she does'nt gain one strength for the strike. Say that this strike is at strength +1 = 4 damage, which is hand damage. > > If she uses Fists of Death (["pot] This vampire gets +1 <strength> for > the remainder of the combat. [POT] As above, but with +2 <strength>") > in addition to Torn Signpost will she get an extra +1 strength? Yes =) > What about weapons? Say Bianca equipped with a Bangh nakh ambushes a brand new, full Etrius (shit happens) before range she plays torn signpost. she now has 2+1 = 3 hand damage. If she decides to strike with the bang nakh, the result will be 3 (base str for this combat) + 2 (Bangh) = 5 damage from her weapon. If she strikes with a lucky blow choosing her bangh for the kill, she will strike for 5 + 1 = 6 Damage. But in this case etrius can choose to play blood rage ;) Etrius will burn anyway due to a milicent smith which happened to be on his side. (ANYONE REMEMBERING SOMETHING SAD ?? =)) > In other words, is the Strength gained by a Torn Signpost a fixed > number or can it be modified by other effects? It is a fixed number first : 2 or 3 - but yes, you can increase your hand damage by other means, and the damage you will do to other minions with strike cards. > I would guess that there must be some kind of limitation to Torn > Signpost, because otherwise it would be unbalanced in comparison with > Fists of Death which costs one blood, while Torn Signpost is free. Yes, there is a limitation : TornS don't stack since they set "base hand damage". If you play 3 torn with Bianca, you still get 2 (base) +1(bianca bonus) = 3 strength. If you play 3 Fists of death with bianca, you get 1(base) + 1 (fist) + 1 (fist) +1 (fist) +1 (bianca bonus) = 5 Strength. Start to see the difference ? Playing Torn signpost + Fist of death provide the best combination. > My best guess would be that the Vampire's inherent strength boni are > ignored with Torn Signpost, while other modifiers do apply (including > weapons). The bonus are not ignored. This was the case in early, early jyhad, where you could still see the commodore logo on the computer hacking. (just joking). back to those days, playing torn with bianca had no effect since she already have what was written on the card : 2 hand damage. The problem has been resolved since all concerned vampires now bear "+1 strength" instead of "2 hand damage" voila voila =) reyda

"mostly harmless" <mostlyh...@chello.at> ha scritto nel messaggio news:9ebd888f.01091...@posting.google.com... > Still working on my Brujah deck - next question: > > How exactly does Torn Signpost work. The errata text says: > > "[pot] This vampire has a strength of 2 for the remainder of combat. > [POT] As above, but the vampire has a strength of 3 for the remainder > of the combat." > > So if Bianca [pot, pre, CEL; +1 hand dmg] uses Torn Signpost at > inferior does she get strength 2 or 3? > She gets 2 strength base hand damage and + 1 strength for her built-in special. 2 +1, then. > If she plays Undead Strength as a strike, does she gain 1 additional > strength for that strike? > Of course she does. > > If she uses Fists of Death (["pot] This vampire gets +1 <strength> for > the remainder of the combat. [POT] As above, but with +2 <strength>") > in addition to Torn Signpost will she get an extra +1 strength? > Yes > What about weapons? > > In other words, is the Strength gained by a Torn Signpost a fixed > number or can it be modified by other effects? > Can be modified. Torn signpost simply sets the base strength damage of the minion using it. > I would guess that there must be some kind of limitation to Torn > Signpost, because otherwise it would be unbalanced in comparison with > Fists of Death which costs one blood, while Torn Signpost is free. > No. Whereas is possible to play multiples of both cards in the same combat, TS simply sets the base strength, but you would play multiple of it for nothing (the strenthg base is either changed to 2 or 3)... FoD has a truly effective stackability (above all, at superior, 1 blood = +2 strength). Say, if you play 2 FoD at superior in the same combat, you get a + 4 base strength, which is a pretty big amount....... Both cards are effective, though. Hope this helps Emiliano, vekn Prince of Rome

Well card text on Torn Signpost says: Torn Signpost Cardtype: Combat Discipline: Potence Only usable before range is determined. [pot] This vampire has a strength of 2 for the remainder of combat. [POT] As above, but the vampire has a strength of 3 for the remainder of the combat. Fists of Death Cardtype: Combat Cost: 1 blood Discipline: Potence Only usable before range is chosen. [pot] This vampire gets +1 <strength> for the remainder of the combat. [POT] As above, but with +2 <strength>. And then lets take a random vampire: Lazverinus, Thrall of Lambach [Sabbat, SW] Cardtype: Vampire Clan: Ventrue antitribu Capacity: 10 Discipline: AUS DOM FOR POT pro Sabbat Archbishop of Houston: +2 strength. So lets say Lazverinus gets in combat. He plays a Torn Signpost. Dose he now have a handdammage of 5 or 3? If its the first then is it right that it dose have the same efect as a Fist of Death (except you pay one blood more to play FoD) IF you only play a singel TS/FoD?!? Regards /Jesper "mostly harmless" <mostlyh...@chello.at> skrev i en meddelelse news:9ebd888f.01091...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ]

But in recent erratas, they said you CAN'T stack identical cards on one action, so more than 1 Fist of Death is just not possible !! It still is an interesting card, though, but less so than Torn Signpost (you still can cumulate the 2...). -- Orpheus http://cypheranima.free.fr audio...@yahoogroups.com "Tetragrammaton" <nospam_a...@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message news: AV%p7.6109$bf.2...@news.infostrada.it... [ quoted text not captured ]

"Jesper Bøje" wrote: > So lets say Lazverinus gets in combat. > He plays a Torn Signpost. Dose he now have a handdammage of 5 or 3? He now has a strength of 5. His default hand strike will inflict 5 damage. The damage done by a hand strike is hand damage. > If its the first then is it right that it dose have the same efect as a > Fist of Death (except you pay one blood more to play FoD) IF you only play a > singel TS/FoD?!? The result would be the same (except for the cost) if he had played Fists of Death, yes. [Unused bottom-quoted message snipped] -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Orpheus wrote: > > But in recent erratas, they said you CAN'T stack identical cards on one > action, so more than 1 Fist of Death is just not possible !! Incorrect. [VERY LARGE, unused, bottom-quoted message snipped.] [ quoted text not captured ]

Mostly Harmless wrote: >>How exactly does Torn Signpost work. The errata text says:>> It gives a vampire 2 strength (hand damage) at inferior and 3 strength (hand damage) at superior. >>So if Bianca [pot, pre, CEL; +1 hand dmg] uses Torn Signpost at inferior does she get strength 2 or 3?>> All strength modifiers are cumulitive. Bianca has +1 strength (her card says +1 hand damage, which has been ruled to read +1 strength under the current rules. If you have any Jyhad versions of Bianca, she says "2 hand damage", which should also be read as "+1 strength"). If Bianca, who has inferior potence plays TS, she ends up with 3 strength (2 from the TS, +1 from her special ability). >>If she plays Undead Strength as a strike, does she gain 1 additional strength for that strike?>> Yup. 2 strength (from TS), +1 strength (from Binanca), strike for +1 hand damage (from Undead Strength)= a hand strike for 4 damage. >>If she uses Fists of Death (["pot] This vampire gets +1 <strength> for the remainder of the combat. [POT] As above, but with +2 <strength>") in addition to Torn Signpost will she get an extra +1 strength?>> TS gives her 2 strength. Fists of Death gives her +1 strength. Her special ability gives her +1 strength. Playing both of these cards gives her 4 strength. If she then strikes with Undead Strength, she will do 5 hand damage. >>What about weapons?>> Weapons that are based on strength damage (like Meat Cleaver: a weapon strike that does strength +1 damage) would be increased as your strength is. Assuming Bianca played TS, FoD, and hit you with a Meat Cleaver, she would to (2+1+1+1=5) damage. This would be a weapon strike and weapon damage, so it wouldn't work under Immortal Grapple and couldn't be made aggrivated by Wolf Claws (because the Meat Cleaver is in there), but is still 5 damage based on her strength. If there were no Meat Cleaver, Bianca would be doing 4 hand damage, which would work while Immortally Grappled and could be made aggrivated (if she had, say, a Protean Skill card). >>In other words, is the Strength gained by a Torn Signpost a fixed number or can it be modified by other effects?>> Torn Signpost gives you 2 strength. Any additional bonuses are added on. >>I would guess that there must be some kind of limitation to Torn Signpost, because otherwise it would be unbalanced in comparison with Fists of Death which costs one blood, while Torn Signpost is free.>> No inobvious disadvantage. The difference is that if you play 2 Torn Signposts, you still only have 2 strength. If you play 7 Torn Signposts, you still only have 2 strength. Fists of Death, on the other hand, is additive (as it is +1/+2 strength). If you play 5 FoD at inferior, you get +5 strength. If you play a Torn Signpost (giving you 2 hand damage) and then play 5 FoD in addition, you get a total of 7 strength. >>My best guess would be that the Vampire's inherent strength boni are ignored with Torn Signpost, while other modifiers do apply (including weapons).>> Incorrect assumption. Torn Signpost and Fists of Death are interlocking parts of a potence combat strategy. A single TS is better than a single FoD, but having one of each is always better than having two of either: -Having 2 Torn Signpost does you no good at all--you have a maximum of 3 strength (assuming superior Potence) even though you have two of them. -Having one TS and one FoD gives you up to 5 strength for 1 blood cost. -Having 2 FoD gives you up to 5 strength, but costs 2 blood to get there. -Having a Torn Signpost, Fists of Death, and Undead Strength in your hand (with superior Potence) gets you a hand strike for 7 damage (3 [TS] +2 [FoD] +2 [US]=7). Generally, you want more Torn Signposts in your deck than Fists of Death, but you generally don't want all Torn Signpost and no FoD. A 2:1 ratio is usually pretty good--about 10 Torn Signpost to 5 Fists of Death, for instance. Increased Strength works just like Fists of Death, but you need to have a Potence Strike to go with it (or the IS bonus doesn't kick in). In a deck with, say, lots of Undead Strength strikes, Increased Strength will often be just better than Fists of Death, but if you end up with an IS in your hand and no potence strike to use, you get nothing at all. Peter D Bakija PD...@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/bakija6 "The Ramones are more important than the Solar System." -Sean Finnerty