Dear Santa,

I have been a good Necromancer. I have played the Eternal Jyhad, and sometimes scored some victories for my side. So, for the coming year (and the forthcoming expansions), I'd like the following presents : - new options for the Independents, to make them at least able to compete with the Camarilla (and therefore the Sabbat) - a BAN for PTO (no, making another card to kill Inner Circles wouldn't do ; there are few of them, many non-Camarilla vamps) ; or a verrrrry big errata (something akin to Golconda : "burn the vampire ; his controller gains his capacity in pool") - new options for the G4 Giovanni : if they must exist, let them at least open different opportunities (more For, PRE and other out-of-clans) instead of just making them pumped-up copycats of the G2s - new Necromancy cards. Among other ideas : an action that would give +1 bleed to wraiths (could be burned in D action that costs a pool) ; an action that transforms a burned mortal ally into a wraith ; a fight card or two (maneuvers ? something like Flesh of Marble ?). - new allies or other innovations to give the Giovanni new gaming options. Provide at least some of these and I'll again do my best to honour you, the game and its creators by giving offerings in the form of GWs and FGs*. *Fun Games. Thank you, Santa Claws. -- Orpheus ----------------------- "The World as we know must be destroyed" FLA

On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 00:23:24 +0100, Orpheus <orphe...@DEADSPAM.free.fr> wrote: > Thank you, Santa Claws. lol. I ask two things of Mr. Klawz: 1. Ban PTO. 2. Ban PTO. 3. Ban PTO. ...okay, so I got greedy. ;) By the way, I could use a card that gives a Ventrue Antitribu increased Melee Weapon damage. Or something like that. Would work well with AUS FOR. ;P But only after PTO got banned; no use investing +1 card in a toast. -- Bye, Daneel

"Daneel" <dan...@eposta.hu> a écrit dans le message de news:opsinwcr...@news.chello.hu... > By the way, I could use a card that gives a Ventrue Antitribu increased > Melee Weapon damage. Or something like that. mix them with salubri anti !

> By the way, I could use a card that gives a Ventrue Antitribu increased > Melee Weapon damage. - Lucky Blow - Depravity --> J "Fry crack corn, and I don't care, Leela crack corn, I still don't care, Bender crack corn and he is great; Take that you stupid corn!" grail_pbem "at" hotmail.com to email me

And I forgot Martial Ritus... [ quoted text not captured ]

"Orpheus" <orphe...@DEADSPAM.free.fr> wrote in message news:41b63b73$0$24176$636a...@news.free.fr... [ quoted text not captured ] I agree with all except banning PTO. Theres nothing wrong with that card (nor Anarch Revolt, for those who hate that card). -- Colin "Eryx" Goodman Cambridge UK http://www.geocities.com/eryx_uk/Cambridge_by_night.html

Colin Goodman wrote: > I agree with all except banning PTO. Theres nothing wrong with that card > (nor Anarch Revolt, for those who hate that card). While I am fully in favor of something that fixes Anarch Revolt and PTO, I'm of the mind that we are best off just keeping our heads low and enjoying the current changes to the environment :-) Peter D Bakija pd...@lightlink.com http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6 "How does this end?" "In fire." Emperor Turhan and Kosh

"Peter D Bakija" <pd...@lightlink.com> a écrit dans le message de news: BDDBD40E.1B936%pd...@lightlink.com... > Colin Goodman wrote: > > > I agree with all except banning PTO. Theres nothing wrong with that card > > (nor Anarch Revolt, for those who hate that card). > > While I am fully in favor of something that fixes Anarch Revolt and PTO, I'm > of the mind that we are best off just keeping our heads low and enjoying the > current changes to the environment :-) > > > Peter D Bakija LOL. Sure thing. But then, now we know that it's possible... ;-) > pd...@lightlink.com > http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6 > > "How does this end?" > "In fire." > Emperor Turhan and Kosh There is a hole inside your mind !! :-) -- Orpheus ------------------------------- Come suffer with me (man can only rape his mother for so long) (will time erase the human race ?)

Orpheus wrote: > I have been a good Necromancer. I have played the Eternal Jyhad, and > sometimes scored some victories for my side. So, for the coming year (and > the forthcoming expansions), I'd like the following presents : [snip] > - new options for the G4 Giovanni : if they must exist, let them at least > open different opportunities (more For, PRE and other out-of-clans) > - new Necromancy cards. Among other ideas [snip] a fight card or two [snip] Viddy well, little Necrobrother. Viddy well. Don't you want too much? > Thank you, Santa Claws. > Orpheus Ho ho ho. Fabio Sooner NC for Brazil and natural grey hair

On 7 Dec 2004 17:09:34 -0800, J <gra...@hotmail.com> wrote: > And I forgot Martial Ritus... Luck Blow does not give Ventrue Antitribu increased Melee Weapon damage. It merely allows them (or anyone) to strike with hand or a melee weapon to inflict +1 damage. Dapravity does not give Ventrue Antitribu increased Melee Weapon damage. It merely increases the strength of a vampire by +1, gives him or her +1 stealth when diablerizing and makes him or her unable to recruit allies or employ retainers. Martial Ritus does not give Ventrue Antitribu increased Melee Weapon damage. It merely increases the strength of a Sabbat vampire by +1 for the duration. -- Bye, Daneel

"Synesios" <fabio....@gmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news: 1102499929.9...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Well, good things are never too much !! ;-) [ quoted text not captured ]

"Orpheus" <orphe...@DEADSPAM.free.fr> wrote in message news:41b63b73$0$24176$636a...@news.free.fr... > I have been a good Necromancer. I have played the Eternal Jyhad, and > sometimes scored some victories for my side. My list shows you have been very naughty, indeed, so let's see what we can make out of your list (besides a swan): > So, for the coming year (and > the forthcoming expansions), I'd like the following presents : > > - new options for the Independents, to make them at least able to compete > with the Camarilla (and therefore the Sabbat) KMW is touted as an Independent clan set at heart, so "new options" seem like a small boon to ask at this point. Competitiveness? Well, you claim to have scored some victories, so I guess that would be a small boon to ask as well. :-) > - a BAN for PTO (no, making another card to kill Inner Circles wouldn't do ; > there are few of them, many non-Camarilla vamps) ; or a verrrrry big errata > (something akin to Golconda : "burn the vampire ; his controller gains his > capacity in pool") Banning is such sweet sorrow, eh? "Just this one more" and "cripes, put that hatchet away, already". I'll check with Father V:EKN, but I'll get an extra lump of coal ready, just in case. > [more Gio/nec stuff] See Indy response above. -- L. St. Julenisse (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> a écrit dans le message de news: 31ofktF...@individual.net... [ quoted text not captured ] LOL. Thank you L. Santa J. , at least for the humor, and more if the set holds its promises (hope the previews show us the good stuff...). And maybe you can keep the wraith ideas somewhere, just in case they aren't already in KMW... ;-) > -- > L. St. Julenisse (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep ??? New name for your initials ??? Orpheus, same name than B4.

> Luck Blow does not give Ventrue Antitribu increased Melee Weapon damage. > It merely allows them (or anyone) to strike with hand or a melee weapon to > inflict +1 damage. Inflicting damage at +1 is increased Melee Weapon damage. > Dapravity does not give Ventrue Antitribu increased Melee Weapon damage. > It merely increases the strength of a vampire by +1, gives him or her +1 > stealth when diablerizing and makes him or her unable to recruit allies or > employ retainers. As all Melee weapons that do damage (bar Chainsaws) do Strength + X damage, Depravity, which increases their strength is thus increased Melee Weapon damage. > Martial Ritus does not give Ventrue Antitribu increased Melee Weapon > damage. It merely increases the strength of a Sabbat vampire by +1 for the > duration. As all Melee weapons that do damage (bar Chainsaws) do Strength + X damage, Martial Ritus which increases their strength is thus increased Melee Weapon damage. As Ventrue Antribu are vampires that can use all 3 of these cards how does it not give them increased damage with melee weapons? Bye, [ quoted text not captured ]

Daneel said: "I could use a card that gives a Ventrue Antitribu increased Melee Weapon damage" I think He wishes a card that give bonus only to !Ven vamps.

Bala wrote: > I think He wishes a card that give bonus only to !Ven vamps. And why should they? Why should they get something that few other clans get access too. How many cards are out there that do this? Lucky Blow - everyone Pushing the Limit - Potence Undead Strength - Potence Growing Fury - Potence Blessing the Name - !Salubri (but can affect anyone) Channeling the Beast - everyone Decapitate - Potence Mighty Grapple - Potence Sword of the Righteous - Animalism/Valeren Twisting the Knife - Potence Vengeance of Samiel - Potence/Valeren There aren't many. And those that do exist are pretty much exclusively the domain of Potence or Valeren (and hence !Salubri). The cards that I listed (forgot Channeling the Beast) are good enough for others, why aren't they good enough for him? [ quoted text not captured ]

I didn't see many _effective_ deck with Lucky B or Channelling B. (I never used this cards since last six years... :) ) So, I didn't see any !Ven deck whit this cards. (POT or VAL cards are very useful but not for Ventrue Antitribus. ) I think !Ventrus arn't good mellee combat fighters :) Any other clan can do what they do with melee weapons or FOR. So, if they had any card that give them more close combat damage, they would be more effective in close range. Look the tournament winner decks, how many !ven are there.... I played some month ago with !ven bruise&bleed with guns, it was fun, but few gw.

Look the tournament winner decks, how many !ven are there.... ... in close combat... :)

> I didn't see many _effective_ deck with Lucky B or Channelling B. Well, I've played quite a decent little deck that packed 8 Lucky Blows. But that's besides the point. Regardless of whether or not it is worth sticking in decks, the fact remains. It is obviously good enough for the other clans, so why shouldn't it remain good enough for the !Ventrue? > never used this cards since last six years... :) ) So, I didn't see any > !Ven deck whit this cards. (POT or VAL cards are very useful but not > for Ventrue Antitribus. ) So why should they get something that other clans don't have access to? Look, if it can be justified, then I'm all for it, but at the moment there is no justification, just little kids whining that they want a lollie pop. > I think !Ventrus arn't good mellee combat fighters :) Any other clan > can do what they do with melee weapons or FOR. So if any other clan can do what they can do, and they can do what any other clan can do, why make them better? BTW, there are Ventrue, !Ventrue, Gangrel, !Gangrel, Blood Brothers, Daughters, Samedi, Gargoyle, Harbinger's of Skulls, Ravnos, !Salburi with Fortitude as an inclan. Which actually means that over half the clans can't do what the !Ventrue can with FOR. Fortitude is a great combat discipline. Couple it with AUS and DOM and you've already got a very strong clan. Rush or bleed or whatever Aura Read Dawn Operation Thought's Betrayed hit for some agg Prevent agg back Freak Drive Grave Rob repeat Nobody else can do that. So, if they had any card > that give them more close combat damage, they would be more effective > in close range. Look the tournament winner decks, how many !ven are > there.... And this is supposed to mean what? You've got Lazverinus man.... +2 Strength, POT, pro... Easily one of the better vampires in the game. > I played some month ago with !ven bruise&bleed with guns, it was fun, > but few gw. So, if I try and play a straight ventrue bruise and bleed with guns and don't get many gw, does that mean that they need combat cards to boost their melee potential? -- J -- [ quoted text not captured ]

On 8 Dec 2004 16:13:04 -0800, J <gra...@hotmail.com> wrote: > So why should they get something that other clans don't have access to? I'm not sure you know what Santa's wishlists are for. SANTA DOES NOT TELL YOU THAT WHAT YOU SHOULD NOT WANT WHAT YOU WANT. Santa is not like that. He delivers. Or maybe not. But please don't tell me how a wish can be incorrect. Try to view the thread as it is. Duh. -- Bye, Daneel

> > So why should they get something that other clans don't have access to? > > I'm not sure you know what Santa's wishlists are for. > > SANTA DOES NOT TELL YOU THAT WHAT YOU SHOULD NOT WANT WHAT YOU WANT. > > Santa is not like that. He delivers. Or maybe not. > > But please don't tell me how a wish can be incorrect. > > Try to view the thread as it is. > > Duh. Santa doesn't exist dude. Sorry to burst your bubble. :-) But in all seriousness. You've really got to wish within the bounds of reality. Otherwise it's a wasted wish. I wish that Succubus Club would be removed from the V:EKN banned list. Aint gunna happen, not even a chance. [ quoted text not captured ]

On 8 Dec 2004 16:34:30 -0800, J <gra...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> Duh. > > Santa doesn't exist dude. > Sorry to burst your bubble. Nooooooooooo! > :-) Oh, I get it. it was just a joke. Almost got me! ;) > But in all seriousness. You've really got to wish within the bounds of > reality. Otherwise it's a wasted wish. Ehem... Wasted? If you refer to a lack of fulfillment, then a wish that is within the bounds of reality is no less wasted if it is not fulfilled. In fact, it is even more wasted, because it just could've come true. But it didn't. At least when wishing outside the realm of reason (whatever that may be) I am granted the illusion of being in complete control of the situation - because my wish did not ger fulfilled because of me only. ;) > I wish that Succubus Club would be removed from the V:EKN banned list. I don't want to get into that (and I'm sure neither do you) but SC, while being an excellent card for "fun play", is indeed a bit abusable in tournament play. Now it has its rightful place in the VTES parthenon: playable in casual, banned in tournament. Seems like a best of both worlds issue. > Aint gunna happen, not even a chance. So what? I don't mind you wishing that. -- Bye, Daneel

> So what? I don't mind you wishing that. Regardless, cards with the effects that you want already exist. [ quoted text not captured ]

On 8 Dec 2004 16:50:29 -0800, J <gra...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> So what? I don't mind you wishing that. > > Regardless, cards with the effects that you want already exist. Regardless, no they don't. Boo. -- Bye, Daneel

> Nobody else can do that. Dominate Gangrels with ani retainers.

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 23:40:04 GMT, Daneel <dan...@eposta.hu> scrawled: >By the way, I could use a card that gives a Ventrue Antitribu increased >Melee Weapon damage. Or something like that. Would work well with AUS FOR. >;P But only after PTO got banned; no use investing +1 card in a toast. ecstatic agony? salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm (replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 01:42:24 GMT, Daneel <dan...@eposta.hu> scrawled: [ quoted text not captured ] so are you asking for a universal thing, like gangrel revel or week of nightmares? but for the !ven? i am not sure what your wish means, exactly... [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] :D It makes sense to a Dane, actually. 'jul' is Christmas 'nisse' is something like a pixie I guess. Now a 'julenisse' is a creature in the danish christmas 'mythology' (bad word, but you know what i mean). For a picture and stuff, go here: http://www.danbbs.dk/~erikoest/xmas/hist.htm But anyway, it is a creature associated with christmas, presents and stuff. So LSJ is just our little 'julenisse', taking care of all the little V:TES players wanting stuff for christmas :)

Heh. Dear Santa, - please ban PTO - please make Golconda only playable once per game. If I see yet another Anthelios + Minion Tap + Golconda blood pump I may just vomit. I'll promise to be nice and cuddly in return. Or something. //Petri

Oh, and - do something about Anarch Revolt - give the anti-Salubri something so that they don't Totally Suck(tm). //Petri

Petri Wessman <nos...@orava.org> writes: > Dear Santa, > > - please ban PTO Or just the IC-effect. I don't have problems with Justicars playing PTO. I'll ask Santa to remove the text: "If this vampire is Inner Circle, you may choose any Non-Camarilla vampire instead." > - please make Golconda only playable once per game. I'd prefer once per player. It's not as strong as Giant's Blood, which can only be played once per game, as it should. > If I see yet another Anthelios + Minion Tap + Golconda blood pump I > may just vomit. I have nothing, absolutely nothing, to add to that. :-) > I'll promise to be nice and cuddly in return. Or something. (Cue Blue Oyster Club music) -- hg@ "If you can't offend part of your audience, iki.fi there is no point in being an artist at all." -Hakim Bey

Daneel wrote: > By the way, I could use a card that gives a Ventrue Antitribu increased > Melee Weapon damage. Or something like that. Would work well with AUS FOR. I concur (though I would prefer +str, but I'll take weapon damage!) and will add the following wishes: A Ventrue Antitribu with obfuscate. A reaction version of Dawn Op. More auspex combat options...something like: Foresight Combat 2 blood A vampire may only play one Foresight each combat. aus: Maneuver with an optional maneuver. AUS: Only playable before range is determined. Cancel a combat card played by an opposing minion. (Useful to avoid weather control and other obnoxious cards; akin to saying, "No, I knew you were going to make the weather lousy, so I choose to fight you indoors!") Okay, these aren't going to happen, but it never hurts to wish, does it? :) cmb

"Janne Hägglund" <h...@nothung.homelinux.net> a écrit dans le message de news: m33byff...@nothung.homelinux.net... > Petri Wessman <nos...@orava.org> writes: > > > Dear Santa, > > > > - please ban PTO > > Or just the IC-effect. I don't have problems with Justicars playing PTO. > > I'll ask Santa to remove the text: "If this vampire is Inner Circle, > you may choose any Non-Camarilla vampire instead." It would be better. I could go with "Choose a *Non-Titled* Non-Camarilla vampire..." or even "Choose an Independent vampire..." (I'd still hate the card but much less people would play it). > > - please make Golconda only playable once per game. > > I'd prefer once per player. It's not as strong as Giant's Blood, > which can only be played once per game, as it should. Agreed on the Golconda part. But I'd agree for Giant's Blood too. > > If I see yet another Anthelios + Minion Tap + Golconda blood pump I > > may just vomit. > > I have nothing, absolutely nothing, to add to that. :-) LOL. Ditto. > > I'll promise to be nice and cuddly in return. Or something. Or something too. ;-) [ quoted text not captured ]

Bala wrote: > > Nobody else can do that. > > Dominate Gangrels with ani retainers. *sigh* Dominate Gangrels are _not_ a clan. Gangrel is a clan. Gangrel as a clan cannot do that. It is very cornercase for any other clan to perform. Whereas, it is incredibly simple to do with !Ventrue. Big difference. [ quoted text not captured ]

Since this is for Santa, let's add : Let the Independents with votes become Anarchs !!! And : Divine Inspiration Master, 1 pool. Put this card on a controlled vampire. The cards this vampire plays cannot be burned as they are played. (not a total Direct Intervention hoser as you need several for that, but a card that could see some play...). -- Orpheus "Did you know that urine is sterile ? You can drink it." Tyler Durden

> A reaction version of Dawn Op. This has no sense. You can choose to act at Dawn, but you have to react when your enemy acts. Unless you send him a letter which politely ask him to go to equip with his magnum at dawn AND some how he choose to do so.

[ quoted text not captured ] I disagree. As there would still need to be a block made, there could be a case that the blocking minion can hold the acting minion at bay. Delaying Until Dawn Type: Reaction Requires: Fortitude [for] If this block is successful, all damage inflicted to all vampires in the resulting combat is aggravated. The acting vampire may now choose to cancel this action. [FOR] As above, but the acting vampire cannot cancel this action as per Inferior (OK, that's clunky, but I didn't want them unable to cancel the action by other means like Change of Target). Delaying Until Dawn Mk II Type: Reaction Requires: Fortitude [for] If this block is successful, all damage inflicted to all vampires in the resulting combat is aggravated. The acting vampire may now choose to have this action fail. [FOR] As above, but the acting vampire cannot choose to have this action fail. Morgan Vening

De:Orpheus (orphe...@DEADSPAM.free.fr) Assunto:Dear Santa, Newsgroups:rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad Data:2004-12-07 15:23:35 PST >(...) >- a BAN for PTO (no, making another card to kill Inner Circles wouldn't do ; >there are few of them, many non-Camarilla vamps) ; or a verrrrry big errata >(something akin to Golconda : "burn the vampire ; his controller gains his >capacity in pool") >(...) I'm absolutely against the ban of PTO. This is THE card that makes people play with Inner Circles. Without PTO you don't have a strong motivation to invest 11 pool in a single vampire for a vote deck since you have other common ways to control the table votes. IMO PTO is already limited: - You must play an Inner Circle (cap 11) to bypass the capacity limitation; - The target must be non-Camarilla (you can burn Beast that is able to rush you to death but you cannot burn Theo Bell...); - You must pay 1 blood (minor limitation, i agree with that here); - It's a rare card hard to trade and expensive to buy. Besides that, you simply don't play an all-PTO deck, and now without DU it can be used to burn your predator non-Cam Weenies instead of keep it for later winning move. AFAIU if you want to change something in PTO, make it more expensive, like 3 blood or something. You can play Voter Cap later but you must have both 3 blood (1 more for Forgotten Labyrinth!) and VC in your hand. Instead of trying to ban PTO i'd find more useful other changes. Here's my wish list to L.Santa J.: - introduce a capacity limitation in cripts (say an average capacity of 4 or 5) to control weenie decks without eliminate them; - modify the First Strike rule so i can find more interesting to build a Bang Nack Tiger Claws deck... - i need an event to help me win with my Slaughterhouse deck! - some change to reduce Dominate/Bleed power approaching it more closer to Dementation/Bleed efficiency. - and of course, DON'T BAN PTO! .- Luis Duarte

On 13 Dec 2004 06:31:14 -0800, Luis Duarte <luis....@netcabo.pt> wrote: > - some change to reduce Dominate/Bleed power approaching it more > closer to Dementation/Bleed efficiency. How about this one: Card to Balance Dominate Cardtype: Action Discipline: Dominate [dom] (D) Bleed any Methuselah. Gain 1 pool if bleed is successful (for 1 or more). [DOM] As above, with +1 bleed. > - and of course, DON'T BAN PTO! Yeah, right. BAN PTO! -- Bye, Daneel

"Luis Duarte" <luis....@netcabo.pt> wrote in message news:e0b52d78.04121...@posting.google.com... > De:Orpheus (orphe...@DEADSPAM.free.fr) > Assunto:Dear Santa, > Newsgroups:rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad > Data:2004-12-07 15:23:35 PST > >>(...) >>- a BAN for PTO (no, making another card to kill Inner Circles > wouldn't do ; >>there are few of them, many non-Camarilla vamps) ; or a verrrrry big > errata >>(something akin to Golconda : "burn the vampire ; his controller > gains his >>capacity in pool") >>(...) > > I'm absolutely against the ban of PTO. This is THE card that makes > people play with Inner Circles. ..? Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot. Am I being suckered into a (subtle) Ector-esque thread, or do you rally believe this? Sorry, but superior disciplines out the wazoo, crushing special abilities, +2 bleed, and 4 votes is _plenty_ of reason to play a vampire. > Without PTO you don't have a strong > motivation to invest 11 pool in a single vampire for a vote deck since > you have other common ways to control the table votes. > IMO PTO is already limited: > - You must play an Inner Circle (cap 11) to bypass the capacity > limitation; > - The target must be non-Camarilla (you can burn Beast that is able to > rush you to death but you cannot burn Theo Bell...); > - You must pay 1 blood (minor limitation, i agree with that here); > - It's a rare card hard to trade and expensive to buy. > Current limitations to PTO (and their inadequacies) have been hashed out in all of the obscenely long threads. Are you trying to thread-jakc the little girls and boys "Dear Santa" thread into another round of _that _ foolishness? > Besides that, you simply don't play an all-PTO deck, and now without > DU it can be used to burn your predator non-Cam Weenies instead of > keep it for later winning move. > It could be used in that role before, and that isn't what makes PTO overpowered, but you know that... > AFAIU if you want to change something in PTO, make it more expensive, > like 3 blood or something. You can play Voter Cap later but you must > have both 3 blood (1 more for Forgotten Labyrinth!) and VC in your > hand. > Meh. 3 blood on an IC is peanuts. This isn't much of a restriction, especially considering VC blood replenishment. So you need 4 blood on an IC for the duration of a referendum... *shrug* > Instead of trying to ban PTO i'd find more useful other changes. > Here's my wish list to L.Santa J.: > - introduce a capacity limitation in cripts (say an average capacity > of 4 or 5) to control weenie decks without eliminate them; So I put two 11 caps into a weenie deck (which would probably play Effective Management, anyways), and never influence them. The problem of weenies cannot be solved with an average capacity restriction. > - modify the First Strike rule so i can find more interesting to build > a Bang Nack Tiger Claws deck... > - i need an event to help me win with my Slaughterhouse deck! Just my opinion here (stated before, I know. But no one seems to listen) Library Mill decks are like bleed decks. If one Mills Responsibly, the likelihood of success (in the form of Game Wins) increases. The idea of grinding a player's whole deck away for a win in VTES will never be a tier 1 deck concept. If Milling ever reached a level of competitive efficiency, I think it would be ultimately bad for the game, since it would mean a single deck would be capable of milling the decks of two or three other players in about eight to ten turns of play. Card burn like that would be too obscene. Remember, we don't obsolete old sets in this game. Once the cards to build a deck like that are in the game, the concept is there for good. Regards DaveZ Atom Weaver

>IMO PTO is already limited: >- You must play an Inner Circle (cap 11) to bypass the capacity >limitation; >- The target must be non-Camarilla (you can burn Beast that is able to >rush you to death but you cannot burn Theo Bell...); Theo Bell isn't quite the best choice, especially since the Advanced version is non-Camarilla. Then again, the Advanced version has its own special burn clause but nonetheless, you might want to use a better example for your comparison. (i.e. can't burn Karsh). Halcyan 2

"Morgan Vening" <mor...@optusnet.com.au> schreef in bericht news:457qr0145hf4de8h3...@4ax.com... > On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 03:50:48 -0000, "Gustavo Iglesias" > <gustavo....@eresmas.net> wrote: > >> >>> A reaction version of Dawn Op. >> >>This has no sense. You can choose to act at Dawn, but you have to react >>when >>your enemy acts. Unless you send him a letter which politely ask him to go >>to equip with his magnum at dawn AND some how he choose to do so. > > I disagree. As there would still need to be a block made, there could > be a case that the blocking minion can hold the acting minion at bay. irrelevant. > > Delaying Until Dawn > Type: Reaction > Requires: Fortitude > [for] If this block is successful, all damage inflicted to all > vampires in the resulting combat is aggravated. The acting vampire may > now choose to cancel this action. > [FOR] As above, but the acting vampire cannot cancel this action as > per Inferior (OK, that's clunky, but I didn't want them unable to > cancel the action by other means like Change of Target). > > Delaying Until Dawn Mk II > Type: Reaction > Requires: Fortitude > [for] If this block is successful, all damage inflicted to all > vampires in the resulting combat is aggravated. The acting vampire may > now choose to have this action fail. > [FOR] As above, but the acting vampire cannot choose to have this > action fail. > yuck! combines too easily with Rotschreck, IMO.

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 20:36:41 GMT, "Jeroen Rombouts" <jeroen....@NOSPAMpandora.be> wrote: > >"Morgan Vening" <mor...@optusnet.com.au> schreef in bericht >news:457qr0145hf4de8h3...@4ax.com... >> On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 03:50:48 -0000, "Gustavo Iglesias" >> <gustavo....@eresmas.net> wrote: >> >>> >>>> A reaction version of Dawn Op. >>> >>>This has no sense. You can choose to act at Dawn, but you have to react >>>when >>>your enemy acts. Unless you send him a letter which politely ask him to go >>>to equip with his magnum at dawn AND some how he choose to do so. >> >> I disagree. As there would still need to be a block made, there could >> be a case that the blocking minion can hold the acting minion at bay. > >irrelevant. I don't think it's irrelevant. You catch your victim part way through his running down to the gun store, and hold him up long enough for the sun to start coming up. >> Delaying Until Dawn >> Type: Reaction >> Requires: Fortitude >> [for] If this block is successful, all damage inflicted to all >> vampires in the resulting combat is aggravated. The acting vampire may >> now choose to cancel this action. >> [FOR] As above, but the acting vampire cannot cancel this action as >> per Inferior (OK, that's clunky, but I didn't want them unable to >> cancel the action by other means like Change of Target). >> >> Delaying Until Dawn Mk II >> Type: Reaction >> Requires: Fortitude >> [for] If this block is successful, all damage inflicted to all >> vampires in the resulting combat is aggravated. The acting vampire may >> now choose to have this action fail. >> [FOR] As above, but the acting vampire cannot choose to have this >> action fail. >> >yuck! combines too easily with Rotschreck, IMO. This is a valid reason, one I agree with, and a reason why I think the Superior should probably be something else, rather than a direct rip of Daring the Dawn. Maybe at Basic, have the blocking Vampire auto torp'd if block successful (so damage prevention won't stop him being burnt), and free to use Damage Prevention at Superior, but both allowing the acting minion to withdraw at will. The disruption of action, the possible burning of the action card, and the tapping of the acting minion being sufficient advantages to using the card, without the obvious rort that goes with Rotschreck. Morgan Vening

[Morgan Vening] > ...I think the Superior should probably be > something else, rather than a direct rip of > Daring the Dawn... What about something more like Kiss of Ra? Delayed until dawn. Type: Reaction Requires: Fortitude Cost: 3 blood Only usable when this reacting minion successfully blocks a vampire who does not have Fortitude. [for] The acting vampire burns 2 blood, and the action is ended (without combat). [FOR] As above, and the acting vampire goes into torpor. * lehrbuch

"Morgan Vening" <mor...@optusnet.com.au> schreef in bericht news:tv1sr0perhm5dqeb9...@4ax.com... > On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 20:36:41 GMT, "Jeroen Rombouts" > <jeroen....@NOSPAMpandora.be> wrote: > >> >>"Morgan Vening" <mor...@optusnet.com.au> schreef in bericht >>news:457qr0145hf4de8h3...@4ax.com... >>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 03:50:48 -0000, "Gustavo Iglesias" >>> <gustavo....@eresmas.net> wrote: >>> >> >>irrelevant. > > I don't think it's irrelevant. You catch your victim part way through > his running down to the gun store, and hold him up long enough for the > sun to start coming up. > that's not what I meant. I meant that wether or not you can find backstory for a card is irrelevant for the purpose of deciding wether or not to create said card.

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 23:39:08 GMT, "Jeroen Rombouts" <jeroen....@NOSPAMpandora.be> wrote: > >"Morgan Vening" <mor...@optusnet.com.au> schreef in bericht >news:tv1sr0perhm5dqeb9...@4ax.com... >> On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 20:36:41 GMT, "Jeroen Rombouts" >> <jeroen....@NOSPAMpandora.be> wrote: >> >>> >>>"Morgan Vening" <mor...@optusnet.com.au> schreef in bericht >>>news:457qr0145hf4de8h3...@4ax.com... >>>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 03:50:48 -0000, "Gustavo Iglesias" >>>> <gustavo....@eresmas.net> wrote: >>>> >>> >>>irrelevant. >> >> I don't think it's irrelevant. You catch your victim part way through >> his running down to the gun store, and hold him up long enough for the >> sun to start coming up. >> >that's not what I meant. I meant that wether or not you can find backstory >for a card is irrelevant for the purpose of deciding wether or not to create >said card. Ahh. The post I originally responded to said there wasn't a plausible fluff reasoning, so I provided one. Again, I don't think a direct Daring the Dawn for Reaction is a good idea. But a modified version, where if the acting minion doesn't do something, then all damage is aggravated, I have no issue with. Morgan Vening

Dear Santa, Could you re-make Phobia and Weakness into halfway decent cards? They are quite lonely and keep me up at night with their crying. Thanks, Azel ps: oh, and a box of gehenna and the upcoming set in february! pretty please! :D

On 14 Dec 2004 02:43:48 -0800, Luis Duarte <luis....@netcabo.pt> wrote: >> Sorry, but superior disciplines out the wazoo, crushing special > abilities, >> +2 bleed, and 4 votes is _plenty_ of reason to play a vampire. > > I believe most people won't be convinced to invest 11 pool in a single > vampire that can bleed for 3 and have 1 more vote than a Justicar... Okay, I can't help it. "I think 64k ought to be enough for everyone." > Regarding bleed, bleed decks rely mainly on Action and Act Modif > cards, and the less capacity the vampire have the better. About Vote > decks actually the vote control is achieved mainly using cards like > Awe, Bewitching Oration, Animal Magnetism, Ventrue Headquarters, Fee > Stakes, etc. Once again the lesser capacity the better which means > also that the base votes in a vote deck is usually composed by > Princes, Primogens, Archbishops, Cardinals or Bishops. with 11 pool > you can influence 2 vampires distributing the risk of loosing one > vampire and increasing the chances to increase the base titles or > votes. This is foolishness. Paying 11 pool for a vampire is a tough commitment, true. You can get nuked and then its all gone. BUT. Underestimating the power of +2 bleed and 4 votes is foolhardy indeed. We're talking about permanent things here. Controlling Volker and Rake, for example, gives you: 2 minions with: CEL pot and PRE aus cel pot That's two actions each turn and 8 total levels of disciplines. If you bleed with both, you do 2 pool damage. You also have 4 votes. Controlling Arika gives you: 1 minion with: DOM FOR OBF PRE aus cel That's one action each turn (-50%) and 10 total levels of disciplines. (+25%) If you bleed, you do 3 pool damage. (+50%) You also have 4 votes. (+0%) If you consider cards like Freak Drive, Minion Tap, Obedience, Govern the Unaligned and Voter Captivation, you stop worrying and end start loving Da Bomb (that's the Lady for ya). Sheesh, where's a Derek when you need one. -- Bye, Daneel

"Luis Duarte" <luis....@netcabo.pt> wrote in message news:e0b52d78.04121...@posting.google.com... > De:David Zopf (david...@snet.net) > >Sorry, but superior disciplines out the wazoo, crushing special > abilities, > >+2 bleed, and 4 votes is _plenty_ of reason to play a vampire. > > I believe most people won't be convinced to invest 11 pool in a single > vampire that can bleed for 3 and have 1 more vote than a Justicar... "can bleed" for a lot more, actually. The bleed for three is without playing any cards. Costing 11 is typically made up with some trivial combination of Minion Tap, Ancient Influence, Political Stranglehold and, when appropriate, Voter Captivation. For instance, http://www.thelasombra.com/decks/twd.htm#2k3fomaa http://www.thelasombra.com/decks/twd.htm#elsegundo2k1 both devote half their crypt slots to IC members and have no PTO. Another with half IC's has but one PTO, seemingly because it can -- that is, the PTO isn't what made Shaun decide to pack 6 ICs into its crypt: http://www.thelasombra.com/decks/twd.htm#octoberrust2k1 (a fate shared by many of the decks that have more than one IC in the crypt -- splash a single PTO in after the fact just because you can). A few others from a brief search of the TWD : http://www.thelasombra.com/decks/twd.htm#2k3originsfriday http://www.thelasombra.com/decks/twd.htm#grasp2k1 http://www.thelasombra.com/decks/twd.htm#2k2naperville -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 08:18:14 -0500, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > Another with half IC's has but one PTO, seemingly because > it can -- that is, the PTO isn't what made Shaun decide to > pack 6 ICs into its crypt: > http://www.thelasombra.com/decks/twd.htm#octoberrust2k1 > (a fate shared by many of the decks that have more than one > IC in the crypt -- splash a single PTO in after the fact > just because you can). So, um, now that we know ICs don't need PTO to be worthy of being played, can we, like, err, finally ban PTO? ;) -- Bye, Daneel

De:David Zopf (david...@snet.net) Assunto:Re: Dear Santa, Newsgroups:rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad Data:2004-12-13 07:24:14 PST >> I'm absolutely against the ban of PTO. This is THE card that makes >> people play with Inner Circles. >..? Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot. Am I being suckered into a (subtle) >Ector-esque thread, or do you rally believe this? Absolutely! Really! >Sorry, but superior disciplines out the wazoo, crushing special abilities, >+2 bleed, and 4 votes is _plenty_ of reason to play a vampire. I believe most people won't be convinced to invest 11 pool in a single vampire that can bleed for 3 and have 1 more vote than a Justicar... Regarding bleed, bleed decks rely mainly on Action and Act Modif cards, and the less capacity the vampire have the better. About Vote decks actually the vote control is achieved mainly using cards like Awe, Bewitching Oration, Animal Magnetism, Ventrue Headquarters, Fee Stakes, etc. Once again the lesser capacity the better which means also that the base votes in a vote deck is usually composed by Princes, Primogens, Archbishops, Cardinals or Bishops. with 11 pool you can influence 2 vampires distributing the risk of loosing one vampire and increasing the chances to increase the base titles or votes. >(...) Are you trying to thread-jakc the little >girls and boys "Dear Santa" thread into another round of _that _ >foolishness? No. I'm just giving my own opinion for the first time... >> - introduce a capacity limitation in cripts (say an average capacity >> of 4 or 5) to control weenie decks without eliminate them; >So I put two 11 caps into a weenie deck (which would probably play Effective >Management, anyways), and never influence them. Did you do some calculations? 2 IC's and 10x 2-cap vampires has an average of 3,5-cap which means that would not be legal. You needed 3 IC's and 9x2-cap for a minimum crypt average of 4, and that sure decrease all-weenie eficiency. If this is not enough, increase the minimum crypt average to 5. .- Luis Duarte