rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

LSJ-STAKE QUESTION

24 messages from 11 participants · 16 January 1998 – 23 January 1998
original thread on Google Groups

SirTemple

I have a simple question for y'all. On the card Wooden Stake (Vampire: The Eternal Struggle not Jyhad version), it says that "Minion with this equipment inflicts hand damage as a strike. If more than 1 damage is inflicted witht his weapon all additional damage is aggravated." Now the question is.. can I use strike card that just says + on hand damage like maybe Torn Signpost or Fist of Death?? Is that acceptable? On the card Immortal Grapple, it says that you can only use hand strikes, I wanted to know if I could use my wooden stake instead?? Let me know, so I could settle a dispute. SURGE!!! FEED THE RUSH!!!

LSJ

SirTemple wrote: > I have a simple question for y'all. On the card Wooden Stake (Vampire: The > Eternal Struggle not Jyhad version), it says that "Minion with this equipment > inflicts hand damage as a strike. If more than 1 damage is inflicted witht his > weapon all additional damage is aggravated." Now the question is.. can I use > strike card that just says + on hand damage like maybe Torn Signpost or Fist of > Death?? Is that acceptable? TS and FoD are not strike cards. You play them before striking (before range, actually), to increase you minion's base hand damage to some new amount. If you then strike with the Wooden Stake, the WS will deal hand damage (the new, improved hand damage amount). > On the card Immortal Grapple, it says that you can > only use hand strikes, I wanted to know if I could use my wooden stake > instead?? Let me know, so I could settle a dispute. No. Striking with a melee weapon, like Wooden Stake, is not allowed under Immortal Grapple, which only allows hand strikes. -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. (*) - Subject to review by Rules Team

James Coupe

In article <19980116051...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, SirTemple <sirt...@aol.com> writes >I have a simple question for y'all. On the card Wooden Stake (Vampire: The >Eternal Struggle not Jyhad version), it says that "Minion with this equipment >inflicts hand damage as a strike. If more than 1 damage is inflicted witht his >weapon all additional damage is aggravated." Now the question is.. can I use >strike card that just says + on hand damage like maybe Torn Signpost or Fist of >Death?? Is that acceptable? On the card Immortal Grapple, it says that you can >only use hand strikes, I wanted to know if I could use my wooden stake >instead?? Let me know, so I could settle a dispute. > >SURGE!!! FEED THE RUSH!!! Torn Signpost sets your base hand damage so that carries through to the Wooden Stake. It is not a strike card. Same with Fists of Death. Wooden Stake turns your hand damage into melee weapon damage and everything in excess of one damage is aggravated. Wooden Stake is a melee weapon strike. Therefore, it is not usable if Immortal Grapple is in play. But, to answer your next question (psychic, me, eh?), if you want to play Wooden Stake and an actual strike card you have to be careful. You can't play Scorpion Sting and the Wooden Stake because they are two different strikes - you only have one strike to do of course. This is because Scorpion Sting only applies to your hand damage. Undead Strength, on the other hand, because it has the "or melee weapon" clause on it, can be applied onto Wooden Stake so you would do 2 (inferior) or 3 (superior) damage, 1 (inferior) or 2 (superior) of which would be aggravated. -- James Coupe (remove some crap to reply) Pah!! I hope it shits in your jogging suit!

VampChamp1

>I have a simple question for y'all. On the card Wooden Stake (Vampire: The Eternal Struggle not Jyhad version), it says that "Minion with this equipment inflicts hand damage as a strike. If more than 1 damage is inflicted with this weapon all additional damage is aggravated." Now the question is.. can I use strike card that just says + on hand damage like maybe Torn Signpost or Fists of Death?? Is that acceptable? On the card Immortal Grapple, it says that you can only use hand strikes, I wanted to know if I could use my wooden stake instead?? Torn Signpost, AND I DON"T CARE WHAT ANYBODY SAYS TO THE CONTRARY, is a melee weapon. You hit somebody with the signpost you've torn out of the ground ergo increased damage. Fists of death is just that: Fists, not a weapon - Hand Damage only. Undead strength would do the trick nicely though. Immortal grapple is just that, grappling with both hands, no weapons, ergo, only hand damage. Now I shall sit idly by while the rule mogners and spiriti-of-the-game ignorers tell you that while flailing about with a signpost, your stake will be that much more forceful...

Joshua Duffin

VampChamp1 (vampc...@aol.com) wrote: : Torn Signpost, AND I DON"T CARE WHAT ANYBODY SAYS TO THE CONTRARY, is a melee : weapon. You hit somebody with the signpost you've torn out of the ground ergo : increased damage. Fists of death is just that: Fists, not a weapon - Hand : Damage only. Undead strength would do the trick nicely though. Immortal : grapple is just that, grappling with both hands, no weapons, ergo, only hand : damage. Nice to know you're open to debate. You can tell Torn Signpost is a melee weapon, because just like Zip Gun, it has a little Equipment symbol on it, and says that it counts as a weapon. ;-) : Now I shall sit idly by while the rule mogners and spiriti-of-the-game ignorers : tell you that while flailing about with a signpost, your stake will be that : much more forceful... You could think of Torn Signpost as representing a feat of strength the Potent vampire performs, symbolizing that now they're really mad. (Hulk smash!) Or you could just ignore us. Josh if only Torn Signpost had a different picture on it...

PDB6

vampchamp1 wrote: "Torn Signpost, AND I DON"T CARE WHAT ANYBODY SAYS TO THE CONTRARY, is a melee weapon. You hit somebody with the signpost you've torn out of the ground ergo increased damage. Fists of death is just that: Fists, not a weapon - Hand Damage only. Undead strength would do the trick nicely though. Immortal grapple is just that, grappling with both hands, no weapons, ergo, only hand damage." Umm..well, you are cetainly entitled to your opinion, but that is not what the card says, nor what it does. Torn Signpost does nothing other than give a vampire 2 or 3 base hand damage. That is all. If your playgroup wants to play it as a house rule that it is a Melee Weapon, go right ahead, but officially, it is not. If you play in an official tournament somewhere, you will certainly be perturbed when Torn Signpost is not a Melee Weapon, but hey, what can you do. Yeah, ok, it is called "Torn Signpost" and has a picture of a signpost on it, but all it does in game terms is change a vampires base hand damage. As Josh pointed out, just imagine it as KoKo ripping up a signpost cause he is mad and strong. You may like to belive that Torn Signpost is a melee weapon, and that is well and good, but as the game actually works, it is not. Peter D Bakija PD...@aol.com "I was satisfied with my life before I ate Strawberry Cream Puff." -Shonen Knife

Robert Goudie

VampChamp1 wrote: > > Torn Signpost, AND I DON"T CARE WHAT ANYBODY SAYS TO THE CONTRARY, is a melee > weapon. You hit somebody with the signpost you've torn out of the ground ergo > increased damage. Fists of death is just that: Fists, not a weapon - Hand > Damage only. Undead strength would do the trick nicely though. Immortal > grapple is just that, grappling with both hands, no weapons, ergo, only hand > damage. Now you're just being silly. The artist who painted TS said that the torn sign was just a way of showing that some really nasty mother had come by. I hope you don't play the game by the artwork. You're just asking for trouble. -Robert Robert Goudie rrgo...@earthlink.net

Chris

I am sure torn signpost is portraying the rage of a vampire who just happens to go psycho as he enters combat near a signpost. As a show of superior potency the vamp tears the nearest signpost into shreds. Then , with freshly sharpened claws,he proceeds to pound the shit out of the enemy vamp. Now I hope that theorem is adequate for vampchamp. >Torn Signpost, AND I DON"T CARE WHAT ANYBODY SAYS TO THE CONTRARY, is a melee >weapon. You hit somebody with the signpost you've torn out of the ground ergo >increased damage. Fists of death is just that: Fists, not a weapon - Hand >Damage only. Undead strength would do the trick nicely though. Immortal >grapple is just that, grappling with both hands, no weapons, ergo, only hand >damage. > [ quoted text not captured ]

VampChamp1

Silly indeed! Hmmph! (note look of consternation, presented in most friendly aspect) Well, I don't recall artists having a say in the specific card mechanics and to me it seems a little silly that a vampire would take the time to deface city property just to pump up, when he/she could likely inflict far more damage by swinging that mother into somebody. I wasn't playing according to the artwork, which actually has the signpost still standing. I used to think of it as sort of "Hulk" thing, but I thought that I was being silly thinking that. Then it stared to make sense. Fists of death, that's for hands, Torn signpost is kind of like a Zip Gun melee weapon. Toss aside your preconceptions for a minute and tell me my interpretation is without merit or justification. Feel free to disagree, but daren't call it silly... Lest I tear off my jacket and get +2 hand damage... Or tear off my T-Shirt and get and additional strike... or remove my toupee and end combat...

VampChamp1

>Now you're just being silly. The artist who painted TS said that the >torn sign was just a way of showing that some really nasty mother had >come by. I hope you don't play the game by the artwork. You're just >asking for trouble. > >-Robert > > Please see my last response to this!

LSJ

VampChamp1 wrote: > Toss aside your preconceptions for a minute and tell me my interpretation is > without merit or justification. Feel free to disagree, but daren't call it > silly... Card text (VTES) supports your position. However, the RT still holds the position that TS simply resets the vampire's base hand damage to some new amount (as it did in the Jyhad version). It might make more sense to play it the way it is written (VTES), but that isn't currently the official view. [ quoted text not captured ]

James Coupe

Regardless of any real world concerns, V:TES isn't V:TM, nor is it real life. Torn Signpost sets your base hand damage to 2 or 3 which then carries through to any weapons you have. If you don't like calling it Torn Signpost, call it something else, but don't expect other players to understand you or play it the same way as you unless you play by the official rules or have standing house rules where you play. [ quoted text not captured ]

Sorrow

>Lest I tear off my jacket and get +2 hand damage... >Or tear off my T-Shirt and get and additional strike... >or remove my toupee and end combat... bwaahahahahahahahahahaha <i'm fine. no, really> Sorrow -ahahahahahahahaha ---- I don't want to be alone | I hurt, therefore I am anymore |-------------------------------- I don't want to be anyone | "What are you looking at...? anymore | you never seen anyone try to I don't need a reason to kill myself | commit suicide before?" - Anon ------------------------------------------------------------------------

David Green

VampChamp1 wrote: > > Silly indeed! Hmmph! (note look of consternation, presented in most friendly > aspect) > > Well, I don't recall artists having a say in the specific card mechanics and to > me it seems a little silly that a vampire would take the time to deface city > property just to pump up, when he/she could likely inflict far more damage by > swinging that mother into somebody. > I wasn't playing according to the artwork, which actually has the signpost > still standing. I used to think of it as sort of "Hulk" thing, but I thought > that I was being silly thinking that. Then it stared to make sense. Fists of > death, that's for hands, Torn signpost is kind of like a Zip Gun melee weapon. I see no reason to see the Torn Signpost as a melee weapon from card text or game effect. If it were a melee version of a zip gun, the first question that comes to mind is why doesn't it stick around to be used later in the game like the zip gun does? It's good for the duration of that combat but no longer. If it were an actual melee weapon, why would the user just throw it away after he's beat on his current opponent for a while after he went to all that trouble ripping it out of the ground? Title and artwork aside, I can't understand any interpretation other than a modification to base hand damage . . . which stays hand damage. That's what makes Immortal Grapple/Torn Signpost/Fists of Death/Undead Strength so much fun (until the Gangrel calmly plays skin of steel and wolf claws, then pulled fangs to add insult to injury). -Dave

VampChamp1

Good Lord in Butter, did you major in condescending to people or does it just come naturally? Why if I didn't know better I'd swear you thought I gave a flying sh*t what you thought! Forgive my tone, but yours went so far past condescending I believe you may have condelanded! >Nice to know you're open to debate. > >You can tell Torn Signpost is a melee weapon, because just like Zip Gun, it has a little Equipment symbol on it, and says that it counts as a weapon. > >;-) >You could think of Torn Signpost as representing a feat of strength the Potent vampire performs, symbolizing that now they're really mad. (Hulk smash!) Or you could just ignore us. > >Josh > >if only Torn Signpost had a different picture on it... Boy, it's great to be in the majority isn't it? Doesn't it feel good to be right sheerly by numbers? I believe they refer to that as 'ad baculum' or 'ad populum' in logic circles, depending on the slant of your retort. In your case, I believe it was 'ad bloody condescentium' I leave you with this response, copies of which have been forwarded to my many detractors, of whom none had quite the unholier than thou attitude that you felt I needed to set me in my place. "This was my response to Robert Goudie calling my idea silly: Silly indeed! Hmmph! (note look of consternation, presented in most friendly aspect) Well, I don't recall artists having a say in the specific card mechanics and to me it seems a little silly that a vampire would take the time to deface city property just to pump up, when he/she could likely inflict far more damage by swinging that mother into somebody. I wasn't playing according to the artwork, which actually has the signpost still standing. I used to think of it as sort of "Hulk" thing, but I thought that I was being silly thinking that. Then it stared to make sense. Fists of death, that's for hands, Torn signpost is kind of like a Zip Gun melee weapon. Toss aside your preconceptions for a minute and tell me my interpretation is without merit or justification. Feel free to disagree, but daren't call it silly... Lest I tear off my jacket and get +2 hand damage... [ quoted text not captured ]

Joshua Duffin

VampChamp1 (vampc...@aol.com) wrote: : Good Lord in Butter, did you major in condescending to people or does it just : come naturally? Why if I didn't know better I'd swear you thought I gave a : flying sh*t what you thought! Forgive my tone, but yours went so far past : condescending I believe you may have condelanded! Whatever you say, Mr. "I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYONE ELSE SAYS TO THE CONTRARY." And I'll have you know it took years of study with a hermit in Tibet to condescend with such efficacy. But you know, let's face it. You're so amazingly beyond wrong that the light from right would take a million years to reach you. You're so far off the beaten path, you may have discovered an eighth continent. You've lost so many marbles, you must be a worse player than Charlie Brown. (You know, to sane people, or even the slightly humor impaired, a smiley like so ;-) may indicate a lighthearted joking manner. No, really! That's what they're for.) : >Nice to know you're open to debate. : > : >You can tell Torn Signpost is a melee weapon, because just like Zip Gun, it : has a little Equipment symbol on it, and says that it counts as a weapon. : > : >;-) : >You could think of Torn Signpost as representing a feat of strength the Potent : vampire performs, symbolizing that now they're really mad. (Hulk smash!) Or : you could just ignore us. : > : >Josh : > : >if only Torn Signpost had a different picture on it... : Boy, it's great to be in the majority isn't it? Doesn't it feel good to be : right sheerly by numbers? I believe they refer to that as 'ad baculum' or 'ad : populum' in logic circles, depending on the slant of your retort. In your : case, I believe it was 'ad bloody condescentium' : I leave you with this response, copies of which have been forwarded to my many : detractors, of whom none had quite the unholier than thou attitude that you : felt I needed to set me in my place. I pride myself on always following the herd so that I can make fun of people for not being in the majority. Especially people who are already defensive and slightly frothing about the mouth before anyone even starts disagreeing with them. Heh, heh, heh. : "This was my response to Robert Goudie calling my idea silly: Yes, I've read this already. So you're asking for comment on it then, right? :-> : Silly indeed! Hmmph! (note look of consternation, presented in most friendly : aspect) : Well, I don't recall artists having a say in the specific card mechanics and to : me it seems a little silly that a vampire would take the time to deface city : property just to pump up, when he/she could likely inflict far more damage by : swinging that mother into somebody. I wasn't playing according to the artwork, : which actually has the signpost still standing. I used to think of it as sort : of "Hulk" thing, but I thought that I was being silly thinking that. Then it : stared to make sense. Fists of death, that's for hands, Torn signpost is kind : of like a Zip Gun melee weapon. Or (and here's a crazy thought) maybe the two cards exist because Fists of Death is stackable for extra effect, and therefore costs a blood, while Torn Signpost won't do you any more good in multiple, but costs no blood. : Toss aside your preconceptions for a minute and tell me my interpretation is : without merit or justification. Feel free to disagree, but daren't call it : silly... As LSJ pointed out, your interpretation has some justification in the VtES card text; however, the Rules Team has made it pretty clear that they want the card to continue to work the way it did in Jyhad, which is to say, by changing the vampire's base hand damage rather than giving it anything resembling a melee weapon strike. : Lest I tear off my jacket and get +2 hand damage... : Or tear off my T-Shirt and get and additional strike... : or remove my toupee and end combat..." This would be due to your superior Silly powers, right? ;-) Josh ...purple toupee and gold lame' will turn your brain around...

LSJ

> : Good Lord in Butter, did you major in condescending to people or does it just > : come naturally? Why if I didn't know better I'd swear you thought I gave a > : [!@%] what you thought! Forgive my tone, but yours went so far past > : condescending I believe you may have condelanded! > Whatever you say, Mr. "I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYONE ELSE SAYS TO THE CONTRARY." > And I'll have you know it took years of study with a hermit in Tibet to > condescend with such efficacy. > [...] As much as I don't mind increasing the traffic in this newsgroup, these posts belong in alt.flame Please reel in your "discussion" or move it to a newsgroup designed for that sort of banter. Thanks. [ quoted text not captured ]

ber...@cco.caltech.edu

> VampChamp1 (vampc...@aol.com) wrote: > : Good Lord in Butter, did you major in condescending to people or does it just > : come naturally? Why if I didn't know better I'd swear you thought I gave a > : flying sh*t what you thought! Forgive my tone, but yours went so far past > : condescending I believe you may have condelanded! > > Whatever you say, Mr. "I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYONE ELSE SAYS TO THE CONTRARY." > And I'll have you know it took years of study with a hermit in Tibet to > condescend with such efficacy. > > But you know, let's face it. You're so amazingly beyond wrong that the > light from right would take a million years to reach you. You're so far > off the beaten path, you may have discovered an eighth continent. You've > lost so many marbles, you must be a worse player than Charlie Brown. > > (You know, to sane people, or even the slightly humor impaired, a smiley > like so ;-) may indicate a lighthearted joking manner. No, really! That's > what they're for.) > .... Do flame wars cause agg damage on the V:TES newsgroup? 8) Hey, maybe I can start batches of insulting emails by making a stupid statement with no basis in fact or fiction... I don't care what anyone says to the contrary, even if they're right, because I know for a fact that Graverobbing is a retainer. And don't even try to say that it's like Corruption, because everyone knows that Corruption is a Master Unique Location. -Chris -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====----------------------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet

VampChamp1

Oh the abuse piled upon the stray sheep from the flock. Well now, see this is why I hate organizations. Dissent is always greeted with healthy mix of contempt and rudeness. Silliness powers, is it Josh? Not real life, Mr. Coupe? Taken too seriously, Peter? Well, very rarely have I met people who took card disagreements so personally. If you felt my "I don't care what anyone else thinks" was argumentative, it could only have been so if one chose to argue with it My target was THE CARD, not the rules mongers, whom I knew had already spoken from on high - I never expected anyone to agree with me. I was answering, with a personal opinion, someone who asked about the relevancy of TS to a wooden stake. MY assault was against the card. Subsequent assaults have ben personal. I'm not crying foul, but for those as obviously obsessed with semantics as may of you appear, the difference is important. Please know that I treasure the spirit of the game above all other game principles. Hair splitting semantics, and litigiousness make any card game into magic. I always have felt that what set V:tES so far above Magic was its SOCIAL element, and it's mythology - there WAS a certain logic to it all. One could envision Merril Molitor using his disciplines to govern the unaligned forces within a city to disrupt the trade of a fellow methuselah. One could understand how threats could enhance this. This is a far cry from "tap the mountain to give my Shivan +1 damage" and the many other soulless hymns of Magic. Yes, it is a card game. But just because of that doesn't mean we need to limit the free thought associated with it. I am proud to consider myself an anarch, one of the NY Sabbat. We at Dark Alliances do not all agree, but we are all open to one another's suggestions and certainly not afraid to deviate. How could we be, in a town filled with such deviants? Enjoy your family Camarilla barbeque, I have had my fill of aggravating damage.

SirTemple

>Or (and here's a crazy thought) maybe the two cards exist because Fists of >Death is stackable for extra effect, and therefore costs a blood, while >Torn Signpost won't do you any more good in multiple, but costs no blood. > > Fists of Death is also a rare, while torn signpost is uncomon I believe. Jason

Joshua Duffin

SirTemple (sirt...@aol.com) wrote: : >Or (and here's a crazy thought) maybe the two cards exist because Fists of [ quoted text not captured ] Correct; I was trying to ignore that. ;-) That's another possible reason why Fists of Death might be a little more powerful (or at least different) from Torn Signpost, but it's not usually considered an acceptable justification in VtES, in my experience. So I'm figuring that the blood cost of FoD pretty much balances out its stackability and leaving it at that. Josh trying to be reasonable for a change.

Joshua Duffin

VampChamp1 (vampc...@aol.com) wrote: :Oh the abuse piled upon the stray sheep from the flock. :Well now, see this is why I hate organizations. Dissent is always greeted with :healthy mix of contempt and rudeness. Look, I'm sorry if my initial response to you appeared to you overly personal or condescending. I was just trying to provide a slightly humorous alternative viewpoint on the situation. It wasn't, from my perspective, contempt and rudeness, but rather a lighthearted disagreement on the nature of the card. :Silliness powers, is it Josh? Well, the whole argument's pretty silly, if you ask me. It's only a game, you know. :Well, very rarely have I met people who took card disagreements so personally. :If you felt my "I don't care what anyone else thinks" was argumentative, it :could only have been so if one chose to argue with it My target was THE CARD, :not the rules mongers, whom I knew had already spoken from on high - I never :expected anyone to agree with me. I was answering, with a personal opinion, :someone who asked about the relevancy of TS to a wooden stake. MY assault was :against the card. Subsequent assaults have ben personal. I'm not crying foul, :but for those as obviously obsessed with semantics as may of you appear, the :difference is important. You know, this is a public forum, and if you post something that invites argument (or says something to suggest the uselessness of argument), people may be tempted to argue. I, for one, couldn't resist the opportunity to make snide comments. ;-) :Please know that I treasure the spirit of the game above all other game :principles. Hair splitting semantics, and litigiousness make any card game :into magic. I always have felt that what set V:tES so far above Magic was its :SOCIAL element, and it's mythology - there WAS a certain logic to it all. One :could envision Merril Molitor using his disciplines to govern the unaligned :forces within a city to disrupt the trade of a fellow methuselah. One could :understand how threats could enhance this. This is a far cry from "tap the :mountain to give my Shivan +1 damage" and the many other soulless hymns of :Magic. This is certainly one way to look at the game. This is not at all how I look at the game. To me, at this point, I play Jyhad/VtES pretty much simply as a fun and challenging game. I like the atmosphere, but it's in many ways a multiplayer game like any other. If I wanted to tell a story in the World of Darkness, I'd either get out a pen and paper or play the roleplaying game. Since I like the strategy and interactions that come out of card games, I play Jyhad. From that perspective, rules are important. I'm not saying you have to play by the rules I do, or think the same way I do. I'm just saying that, to me, Jyhad is not at its heart a storytelling game, and so storytelling interpretations of cards don't carry that much weight for me. :Yes, it is a card game. But just because of that doesn't mean we need to limit :the free thought associated with it. :I am proud to consider myself an anarch, one of the NY Sabbat. We at Dark :Alliances do not all agree, but we are all open to one another's suggestions :and certainly not afraid to deviate. How could we be, in a town filled with :such deviants? :Enjoy your family Camarilla barbeque, I have had my fill of aggravating damage. You're welcome to participate any way you like here. I don't think anyone is actually trying to stifle anything. It just seems to me like you've been overreacting a little to people maybe making fun of your ideas. Shouldn't we be just as free to ridicule your interpretations as you are to ridicule ours? Josh trying to be the voice of sanity for a change

James Coupe

In article <19980122160...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, VampChamp1 <vampc...@aol.com> writes >Hair splitting semantics, and litigiousness make any card game >into magic. I always have felt that what set V:tES so far above Magic was its >SOCIAL element, and it's mythology - there WAS a certain logic to it all. Well, kind of, but a lot of the things that happen in the game are incredibly bizarre. The Mask 1KF ruling is pretty bizarre - why on earth can a Ventrue get out a Gangrel? Why can a Nosferatu have a palatial estate when they almost exclusively live in dumps, sewers and other run-down and abandoned places? Why do Storm Sewers keep a combat at close range? Why does The Parthenon give me more wordly influence (extra master phase action)? Why can Carlotta Giovanni bring back grenades which have already exploded? How can you have Sabbat vmapires who are princes (as we have had clarified recently in another thread)? Why will Brass Knuckles only work once per combat? There are considerations for why things work like this within the game - for ease, for balance, for variation or whatever - but they don't make logical sense all the time. -- James Coupe (remove your inhibitions to reply) If I jumped I should not see the stones rise up to meet me, the fog would hide them from me. The pain would be sharp and sudden as she said. The fall would break my neck. It would not be slow, like drowning. It would soon be over.

VampChamp1

Consider the issue dropped. I have said my peace, apologies to any and all offended.