LSJ Dodge and Aid from Bats

Dodge protects the striker from the effects of the opposing minions strikes. Is the generation of a press from Superior Aid from Bats qualify as a thing that my dodge would protect me from? Elaboration of situation: Minion A: Aid from bats. Minion B: Dodge. Minion A: Pres. Minion B: no no no... if Dodge cancels catatonic fear damage I'm SURE it protects press damage! Minion A: ... hmmm... no I don't think so... but how do you define effects that need to be prevented because they would effect your minion? Minion B: Good question... ok then. Press to end. ~SV

> Dodge protects the striker from the effects of the opposing minions > strikes. Is the generation of a press from Superior Aid from Bats > qualify as a thing that my dodge would protect me from? That would affect them. Press does not affect them. > Elaboration of situation: > > Minion A: Aid from bats. > Minion B: Dodge. > Minion A: Pres. > Minion B: no no no... if Dodge cancels catatonic fear damage I'm SURE > it protects press damage! > Minion A: ... hmmm... no I don't think so... but how do you define > effects that need to be prevented because they would effect your > minion? > Minion B: Good question... ok then. Press to end. As far as I am aware, Dodge does not beat the damage from Catatonic Fear. It also doesn't stop a press. It will stop other affects from being used against a vampire, ie The Withering. If this is dodged it will prevent the damage being resolved (it was dodged), and the card being placed on the vampire (the strike was dodge). The press is ancilary to the strike because it is not being directed at the vampire. -- J --

J wrote: >>Dodge protects the striker from the effects of the opposing minions >>strikes. Is the generation of a press from Superior Aid from Bats >>qualify as a thing that my dodge would protect me from? > > That would affect them. Press does not affect them. Correct. Dodge does not stop the press. >>Elaboration of situation: >> >>Minion A: Aid from bats. >>Minion B: Dodge. >>Minion A: Pres. >>Minion B: no no no... if Dodge cancels catatonic fear damage I'm SURE >>it protects press damage! >>Minion A: ... hmmm... no I don't think so... but how do you define >>effects that need to be prevented because they would effect your >>minion? >>Minion B: Good question... ok then. Press to end. > > As far as I am aware, Dodge does not beat the damage from Catatonic > Fear. It does. It protects the dodger from the strike. > It also doesn't stop a press. It will stop other affects from > being used against a vampire, ie The Withering. If this is dodged it > will prevent the damage being resolved (it was dodged), and the card > being placed on the vampire (the strike was dodge). The press is > ancilary to the strike because it is not being directed at the vampire. Correct. -- LSJ (vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply) Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

"Screaming Vermillian" <alexand...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1126151145.1...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ] use your best judgement. anything that directly "harms" your minion as a strike's side effect (and is not enviromental damage) can be dodged. These side effects must take place in the combat and resolve in a normal strike resolution phase. Or you can just memorize the few strike cards that have side effects that can be dodged and get over with it... > Minion B: Good question... ok then. Press to end. bad question... :P it has been clarified that dodge protects your minion from harmful strike side effects, like catatonic fear damage. The press gained from aid from bats doesnot fall in this category, so it can be used as normal. Ending my post, i'd like to comment on certain people's innate ability to confuse other people and sometimes make the game more complicated than it is. e.g. a guy from my playgroup. This guy (lets call him Bob), though he is a good friend of mine, i have to admit that he relatively often screws things up. He has a vtes experience of many years, but this doesnot help him a lot, when it comes to rules. I'd like to mention 3 examples to let you understand what i really mean: 1st example. 2 years ago, he is the judge in a tournament, i am playing a malk-!malk stealth bleed and i am in the 2nd round (having swept the table in the first). I am in a situation where i have 2 untapped minions and i need to get through a bleed of 5 to win the game, if i don't get it through in this round i lose. 1 of the 2 minions has a spying mission on him (and also has sup dem), i also have an eyes of chaos in my hand and just enough stealth to only get one bleed through (it is rather unlikely to draw any more obfuscate cards, as it was like 15 cards left in my deck and only 4 were stealth cards). So, i need to bleed with the spying mission having minion, add eyes of chaos, and win the game. the only problem was that the guy i wanted to oust was playing Archon investigations and i knew it. So, i call Bob, who was head judge and tell him: "i have seen a recent ruling of LSJ in google that allows me to bleed for 3, then the spying mission is burned for +2bleed but no AI can be played, as the bleed has been resolved succesfuly and there is no time-window to play AI, is this fine with your comprehension of the rules ?" and he says: "no, i am not aware of this, by my standards if you bleed for 3 +2 from the spying mission you can be burned by an AI" He was persistent about this, so i had to bleed with the spying mission minion for 1 +2 from the SM and also be incredibly lucky to draw 2 stealth cards, as i was replacing cards, and be able to also bleed for 3 with the other minion and win the game... Conclusion: head judges should have a good knowledge of the rules, otherwise they should keep a printed document of all the recent rule changes, clarifications, errata, e.t.v. it is not that difficult... 2nd example, 2,5 years ago: I asked Bob if you can play 2 out of turn Master cards, if you have 2 master phase actions. He said -no, because the rules say that you can't play a 2nd master out of turn against the same "master phase" and not against the same "master phase action, so because there is only one master phase for each methuselah you can't play 2 master out of turn even if you have 2 master phase actions.- i found his explanation more than enough and agreed with him saying: "you are right, i was not careful enough to see that the rules say "...against the same MASTER PHASE", i thought that the rule was saying "...against the same MASTER PHASE ACTION", thats why i was wondering why you just can't play 2 master out of turn if you have 2 master phase actions. Anyway, after 1 month, Bob had completely forgotten all of these and asked me if it is possible for a methuselah to play 2 master out of turn if he has 2 master phase actions :PPP i laughed and told him exactly what he had told me 1 month ago... and i mean i was really surprised, he knew the answer, had given me a perfect explanation, but after 1 month completely forgot everything concerning this ruling and asked me the exact question i had asked him go figure... 3rd example, last Saturday... 2,5 years ago, we came to the conclusion that Psyche! sup cannot beat the untap effect of Majesty sup, as the untap effect resolves simultaneously with the CE effect and is not delayed after combat. So, by playing Psyche! sup you restart another combat, but the minion playing sup Majesty has already untap. Last Saturday, we are playing and i play majesty sup with Makarios the Seducer, opposing meth (a relatively new player) plays Psyche! sup and says "why are you untapping, i played Psyche! sup..", i respond "what are you talking about, Psyche! sup doesnot prevent me from untapping via the Majesty sup"... He says, "Bob (Bob was playing at the next table), does Psyche! sup beat the untapping effect of sup Majesty ?" Bob says "yes"... I say "what???? man you are wrong, i mean, in this certain point of the game it doesn't make any difference if i untap or not, as i have 2 more majesty in my hand and i am going to play majesty again, but you are wrong. Psyche! sup cannot beat the untapping effect of Majesty sup, we came to that conclusion 2,5 years ago, we are playing it this way since then... has the rule changed without me knowing it ?" And Bob says.... "Well, while i was playing abroad (he had visited France i think, and played some games there), this question came up and 5 judges agreed that Psyche! beats the untapping effect of majesty." Well, because it really didn't matter at that point of the game, i didn't continue arguing, but just said "ok then, 5 French guys and you are worng on this... check it out when you get home..." Conclusion: Jyhad has very complicated rules, each playgroup must have 1-2 guys devoting some on reading all the new clarifications, rulings, e.t.c. Most rule questions can easily be answered if one just reads the "vtes clarifications, rulings and errata" document. If also this document is available during play, then rules will trouble the players only in the most unusual of circumstances. (sorry for the long post) george

> > As far as I am aware, Dodge does not beat the damage from Catatonic > > Fear. > > It does. It protects the dodger from the strike. Funky. We've been playing that wrong. So my Muddled Vampire Hunters aren't completely useless against Catatonic Fear. -- J --

[ quoted text not captured ] I'm a little confused, I did a google of "catatonic Dodge LSJ" and came across these: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_thread/thread/c07087c810073cd5/ea7b149d48530dcd?lnk=st&q=dodge+lsj+catatonic&rnum=3#ea7b149d48530dcd and: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_thread/thread/d6e283928a494d1a/df0951a38bf249e1?lnk=st&q=dodge+lsj+catatonic&rnum=4#df0951a38bf249e1 A question came up in a JOL game that I'm moderating. Can the damage > from Catatonic Fear be prevented? My initial reaction was "yes" since > LSJ has stated that you can dodge the damage. That was before the revised rulebook, and followed from section 8.3 of the V:TES rulebook. [LSJ 26-MAY-1998] Since the release of the revised rulebook, I have stated that you could not dodge the damage (again, following the rulebook text): [LSJ 25-SEP-1998] http://www.dejanews.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=394698­883 [LSJ 07-JAN-1999] http://www.dejanews.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=429873­800 LSJ Mar 16 2002, 2:44 am show options Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad From: LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> - Find messages by this author Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:44:35 -0500 Local: Sat, Mar 16 2002 2:44 am Subject: Re: Catatonic Fear Question Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse Brian wrote: > > > Catatonic Fear does the damage after combat... > > > 1) Can the damage be prevented with Combat cards? > > No. Combat cards can only be played in combat. > What about the combat cards "dodge" or another S:CE? Don't they > prevent the effects of the opposing minion's strike to the dodging > minion, regardless of whether they happen in combat? 1) Neither Dodge nor S:CE prevent damage. They avoid strike effects and prevent a strike from resolving, respectively. 2) S:CE will prevent the dodge from resolving. [LSJ 25-SEP-1998] -- LSJ (vtes...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ The white wolf site only clarifies that the damage from Catatonic fear is from the vampire (and thus effects memories of mortality) So what is happening? has this changed? are there new rulings? my head hurts and the voices are telling me to do random acts of violence...

On 8 Sep 2005 19:19:14 -0700, Frea...@yahoo.com wrote: >The white wolf site only clarifies that the damage from Catatonic fear >is from the vampire (and thus effects memories of mortality) >So what is happening? has this changed? are there new rulings? my head >hurts and the voices are telling me to do random acts of violence... Yes, this changed. December 2nd, 2004. http://www.thelasombra.com/rules/RTR120204.txt Rules Team Rulings 02-DEC-2004 From: "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad Subject: Rules Team Rulings 02-DEC-2004 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 12:31:44 -0500 Organization: White Wolf, Inc. Lines: 59 Message-ID: <3191o3F...@individual.net> Dodge protects the dodger from the effects of the opposing minion's strike, even if that strike is done at First Strike or even if it is a Combat Ends strike (Combat Ends will still end combat, but any additional effects the strike would have on the dodger, like Catatonic Fear's damage, are dodged).

Thanks! The pain in my head is allayed.... but the voices... the voices won't stop! -Bem. (only slightly insane)