rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

[LSJ] Reprints legality

16 messages from 11 participants · 03 November 2003 – 08 November 2003
original thread on Google Groups

Charles Lechasseur

i have a question about reprinted cards. i know that when a set comes out, you need to wait 30 days (not sure of the exact number) for the set to become tournament-legal. but can you use the reprinted cards before this time, since they're reprints of cards that already exist? ex: i buy the !Tremere starter from Black Hand and get a hypothetically-reprinted vampire in it (say, Ian Forrestal). can i play with that copy of Ian in a tournament at the end of november, before Black Hand is tournament-legal? the physical card comes from Black Hand, but Ian Forrestal is tournament-legal already. -- charles lechasseur - da...@novideospamtron.ca

Johannes Walch

> i have a question about reprinted cards. i know that when a set comes out, > you need to wait 30 days (not sure of the exact number) for the set to > become tournament-legal. but can you use the reprinted cards before this > time, since they're reprints of cards that already exist? No. Decision of legality is only based on the expansion symbol on nothing else. > ex: i buy the !Tremere starter from Black Hand and get a > hypothetically-reprinted vampire in it (say, Ian Forrestal). can i play > with that copy of Ian in a tournament at the end of november, before Black > Hand is tournament-legal? the physical card comes from Black Hand, but Ian > Forrestal is tournament-legal already. No. While the Sabbat Ian Forrestal is tourney legal the Black Hand Ian Forrestal is not. There is no "generic" Ian Forrestal in terms of sets/tournament legality. And to give some arguments for it : There would be a major problem if it was any other way : Erratas. Remember Camarilla Edition when e.g 5th Tradition was changed. So it would be also not possible to play with a new 5th Tradition (if not 30 days after release) but with a new Kine Resources although both were reprinted. If someone wants to manage this there must be lists of <30 days allowed cards and <30 days forbidden card. A lot of effort just for 30 days. -- johannes walch v:ekn germany - http://www.vekn.de/

Oortje4ever

da...@novideospamtron.ca (Charles Lechasseur) wrote in message news:<danov-02110...@192.168.1.3>... [ quoted text not captured ] Yes you can play the reprint but not the new cards. the 30 days (or so) time gives people the oppertunety to make new decks, collect missing cards or addjust their old deck to the new standard in vtes. oortje

Halcyan 2

>Yes you can play the reprint but not the new cards. >the 30 days (or so) time gives people the oppertunety to make new >decks, collect missing cards or addjust their old deck to the new >standard in vtes. That is incorrect. So Johannes' post. Halcyan 2

Stefano Calzighetti

da...@novideospamtron.ca (Charles Lechasseur) wrote in message news:<danov-02110...@192.168.1.3>... [ quoted text not captured ] Sorry but you can't. The whole set cannot be used, not only "new" cards. :-) turnament rules says: 4.3. New Releases New V:TES cards (new expansions, new editions of the basic set, and promotional cards) are allowed in Constructed tournament play beginning 30 days after their retail release date. V:EKN announcements confirm the exact date that each new card set enters tournament play before the set is released. ciao Stefano, Italy

Charles Lechasseur

>No. While the Sabbat Ian Forrestal is tourney legal the Black Hand Ian >Forrestal is not. There is no "generic" Ian Forrestal in terms of >sets/tournament legality. ok. thanks for the answer. >And to give some arguments for it : > >There would be a major problem if it was any other way : Erratas. Remember >Camarilla Edition when e.g 5th Tradition was changed. So it would be also >not possible to play with a new 5th Tradition (if not 30 days after release) >but with a new Kine Resources although both were reprinted. If someone wants >to manage this there must be lists of <30 days allowed cards and <30 days >forbidden card. A lot of effort just for 30 days. i don't see this as a good argument, though. when a card changes, i am still free to play an old card with a different text; i must simply play it with the current card text. the same thing could be done with a new, errated card: simply play it with the old text until the set becomes tournament-legal. i don't see it as being any more confusing than allowing cards with outdated text. [ quoted text not captured ]

Metropolis

Also, when a card changes, you must play the old version for 30 days. David

salem

On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 08:39:53 -0500, da...@novideospamtron.ca (Charles Lechasseur) scrawled: >>There would be a major problem if it was any other way : Erratas. Remember >>Camarilla Edition when e.g 5th Tradition was changed. So it would be also >>not possible to play with a new 5th Tradition (if not 30 days after release) >>but with a new Kine Resources although both were reprinted. If someone wants >>to manage this there must be lists of <30 days allowed cards and <30 days >>forbidden card. A lot of effort just for 30 days. > >i don't see this as a good argument, though. when a card changes, i am >still free to play an old card with a different text; i must simply play >it with the current card text. the same thing could be done with a new, >errated card: simply play it with the old text until the set becomes >tournament-legal. i don't see it as being any more confusing than allowing >cards with outdated text. how much effort would it be to go and check that each card in a player's deck has been printed before? also, what if you didn't know it was previously printed (you're a new player) and you thought it did it's new text, not even conceiving it might be 'old' and do something different? Just looking at the symbol and saying 'not for 30 days, buddy' is a lot easier. salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm

Charles Lechasseur

>also, what if you didn't know >it was previously printed (you're a new player) and you thought it did >it's new text, not even conceiving it might be 'old' and do something >different? what if you had an old card (maybe a buddy gave it to you) with an outdated text and you thought it did its old text? isn't it the same problem? >Just looking at the symbol and saying 'not for 30 days, buddy' is a >lot easier. i agree with that. i just think the argument about card text validity is not the best one to support this idea. easier management is, IMHO, in itself a very good and sufficient argument. [ quoted text not captured ]

John Flournoy

salem <salem_ch...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<4r5eqv0086t7tkfs8...@4ax.com>... > On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 08:39:53 -0500, da...@novideospamtron.ca (Charles > Lechasseur) scrawled: > > >>There would be a major problem if it was any other way : Erratas. Remember > >>Camarilla Edition when e.g 5th Tradition was changed. So it would be also > >>not possible to play with a new 5th Tradition (if not 30 days after release) > >>but with a new Kine Resources although both were reprinted. If someone wants > >>to manage this there must be lists of <30 days allowed cards and <30 days > >>forbidden card. A lot of effort just for 30 days. > > > >i don't see this as a good argument, though. when a card changes, i am > >still free to play an old card with a different text; i must simply play > >it with the current card text. the same thing could be done with a new, > >errated card: simply play it with the old text until the set becomes > >tournament-legal. i don't see it as being any more confusing than allowing > >cards with outdated text. > > how much effort would it be to go and check that each card in a > player's deck has been printed before? also, what if you didn't know > it was previously printed (you're a new player) and you thought it did > it's new text, not even conceiving it might be 'old' and do something > different? This is especially true when there's a radical change in a card, or when it's a card that a new player might build a deck around. The change to Fame from 'on your vamp' to 'on your prey's vamp' is a prime example of this - as is the change to Concealed Weapon to make it disciplineless or that Blood Walk/Fury are strength-based. > Just looking at the symbol and saying 'not for 30 days, buddy' is a > lot easier. > > salem > domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm -John Flournoy

Oortje4ever

well LSJ still didnt anwsered the question, so i'm in doubt. i think you should be given the chance of playing the reprint if you didnt have the old version. You can keep saying that the (new) card text may get people confused, but then you also should ban all old cards with card text which have been changed of time. my solution: be hounest to the judge, smile and ask if you can play it and say that it's the only deck you have got with you. It is a FUN game. not something like magictG Oortje

LSJ

Oortje4ever wrote: > well LSJ still didnt anwsered the question, so i'm in doubt. Google: "reprints legal author:LSJ" -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Oortje4ever

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3FA7B2A2...@white-wolf.com>... > Oortje4ever wrote: > > well LSJ still didnt anwsered the question, so i'm in doubt. > > Google: "reprints legal author:LSJ" And he scores!!!! I said I was right, but no you wouldnt believe me. yeah yeah yeah! . . . ok im fine again. oortje

Darky

oortj...@hotmail.com (Oortje4ever) wrote in message news:<fd5a4c98.03110...@posting.google.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] Ehm.. Oort, you weren't right, so i think it was justified not to believe you. :P -Bram Vink

RavATwoFaces

jja....@hccnet.nl (Darky) wrote in message news:<93148a54.03110...@posting.google.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] Reprint are not legal until 30 days. LSJ answer is: look at my old post... :) I asked that question to LSJ for the exit of Anarchs... and he says I can't use - before the 30 days period - the "NEW" Flesh of Marble. Johannes Walch gives you the correct answer. RavATwoFaces TORINO, Italy

Oortje4ever

> > > > Oortje4ever wrote: > > > > > well LSJ still didnt anwsered the question, so i'm in doubt. > > > > > > > > Google: "reprints legal author:LSJ" > > > > > > > > > And he scores!!!! > > > I said I was right, but no you wouldnt believe me. yeah yeah yeah! > > > . > > > . > > > . > > > ok im fine again. > > > > > > oortje > > > > Ehm.. Oort, you weren't right, so i think it was justified not to believe you. :P > > > > -Bram Vink > > Reprint are not legal until 30 days. LSJ answer is: look at my old > post... :) > I asked that question to LSJ for the exit of Anarchs... and he says I > can't use - before the 30 days period - the "NEW" Flesh of Marble. > Johannes Walch gives you the correct answer. > > RavATwoFaces > TORINO, Italy sorry man im still in denail. wahoeeeeeeeeee i rock .... . . . . . ok Im back to reality . .. . ok ok i was wrong oortje