Deck Name : Meat Puppets Jumping at Shadows
Author : Norman S. Brown Jr
Description :
The deck functions around getting a vampire with supeior viccitude to
bauble a Assault Rifle onto a vampire with superior Obtenebration. The
vampire with the superior Obtenebration and the Assault Rifle then
Descends into Darkness. While the vampire with Assault Rifle is out of
play the baubled vampire burns the bauble. During your influence phase
the vampire with the Descent into Darkeness gains two blood and
returns to play with the now FREE ASSAULT RIFLE! Shennanigans ensue.
Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 4 max: 7 average: 5.67
------------------------------------------------------------
1x Henri Lavenant 7 DOM OBT pot qui Lasombra:3
1x Kazimir Savostin 7 AUS VIC ani pot Tzimisce:3
1x Omme Enberbenight 7 MYT OBT cel dom priscus Kiasyd:4
1x Duality 6 AUS VIC ani Tzimisce:4
1x Onaedo 6 DOM OBT aus pot Lasombra:4
1x Otieno 6 OBT POT ani dom Lasombra:4
1x Ana Rita Montaña 5 VIC aus dom obf Tzimisce:3
1x Andrew Emory 5 OBT aus dom pot bishop Lasombra:4
1x Dame Hollerton 5 DOM OBT myt Kiasyd:4
1x Ermenegildo, The R 5 DOM OBT pot Lasombra:4
1x Rose, The 5 PRE VIC aus Tzimisce:3
1x Jane Sims 4 VIC ani aus pro Tzimisce:4
Library [90 cards]
------------------------------------------------------------
Action [29]
7x Bauble
2x Black Metamorphosis
8x Descent into Darkness
9x Govern the Unaligned
3x Graverobbing
Action Modifier [10]
3x Conditioning
3x Shroud of Absence
2x Shroud of Night
2x Tenebrous Form
Ally [2]
2x War Ghoul
Combat [10]
3x Arms of the Abyss
4x Shadow Body
3x Shadow Step
Equipment [7]
7x Assault Rifle
Master [12]
5x Blood Doll
2x Haven Uncovered
5x Wash
Reaction [16]
9x Deflection
5x On the Qui Vive
2x Wake with Evening's Freshness
Retainer [4]
1x J. S. Simmons, Esq.
1x Mr. Winthrop
1x Robert Carter
1x Tasha Morgan
Crafted with : Anarch Revolt Deck Builder. [Tue May 01 16:31:57 2007]
_________________
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
On May 1, 3:34 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
> Deck Name : Meat Puppets Jumping at Shadows
> Author : Norman S. Brown Jr
> Description :
> The deck functions around getting a vampire with supeior viccitude to
> bauble a Assault Rifle onto a vampire with superior Obtenebration. The
> vampire with the superior Obtenebration and the Assault Rifle then
> Descends into Darkness. While the vampire with Assault Rifle is out of
> play the baubled vampire burns the bauble. During your influence phase
> the vampire with the Descent into Darkeness gains two blood and
> returns to play with the now FREE ASSAULT RIFLE! Shennanigans ensue.
I saw a version of this deck that also used Corporal Reservoir for
additional blood gain through Descent. Tap the Reservoirs before
Descending, gain the blood, and then they come back untapped once you
return from the Darkness.
> Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 4 max: 7 average: 5.67
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 1x Henri Lavenant 7 DOM OBT pot qui Lasombra:3
> 1x Kazimir Savostin 7 AUS VIC ani pot Tzimisce:3
> 1x Omme Enberbenight 7 MYT OBT cel dom priscus Kiasyd:4
> 1x Duality 6 AUS VIC ani Tzimisce:4
> 1x Onaedo 6 DOM OBT aus pot Lasombra:4
> 1x Otieno 6 OBT POT ani dom Lasombra:4
> 1x Ana Rita Montaña 5 VIC aus dom obf Tzimisce:3
> 1x Andrew Emory 5 OBT aus dom pot bishop Lasombra:4
> 1x Dame Hollerton 5 DOM OBT myt Kiasyd:4
> 1x Ermenegildo, The R 5 DOM OBT pot Lasombra:4
> 1x Rose, The 5 PRE VIC aus Tzimisce:3
> 1x Jane Sims 4 VIC ani aus pro Tzimisce:4
You might consider dropping the War Ghoul angle, since Assault Rifles
will likely be sufficient. I think your key minion could be Ramiro,
who is cheap and Lasombra with vic (and you only need inferior.) I
would consider a crypt like this:
3x Ramiro
1x Christine Boscacci
1x Horatio
2x Henri Lavenant
2x Banjoko
1x Gratiano
1x Guido Lucciano
1x Talley, the Hound
> Action Modifier [10]
> 3x Conditioning
> 3x Shroud of Absence
> 2x Shroud of Night
> 2x Tenebrous Form
Might consider a Shadow Play or two.
> Combat [10]
> 3x Arms of the Abyss
> 4x Shadow Body
> 3x Shadow Step
I like more Arms of the Abyss, because it's so good against anything
except grapple. Of course, if you maneuver with the gun, you can't
Arms of the Abyss. Therefore, I'd also suggest Darkness Within, since
it gives you a maneuver.
> Equipment [7]
> 7x Assault Rifle> Master [12]
> 5x Blood Doll
> 2x Haven Uncovered
> 5x Wash
Seems like you could have more masters here, since you only effectly
have 7. If you like the Corporal Reservoir angle, you could replace
several Wash with them. I'd also add a Blooding or two for your
actions. I also like The Barrens to get rid of extra Assault Rifles
once you have what you need. Maybe Fame?
Ira
On May 1, 5:23 pm, "ira...@gmail.com" <ira...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 1, 3:34 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > Deck Name : Meat Puppets Jumping at Shadows
> > Author : Norman S. Brown Jr
> >> > Master [12]
> > 5x Blood Doll
> > 2x Haven Uncovered
> > 5x Wash
It might also be nice to have some of the good Lasombra masters, like
Power Structure, Political Hunting Ground, and Elysian Fields.
On that note, the Zaire River Ferry seems decent, too.
Ira
On May 1, 6:23 pm, "ira...@gmail.com" <ira...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 1, 3:34 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > Deck Name : Meat Puppets Jumping at Shadows
> > Author : Norman S. Brown Jr
> > Description :
> > The deck functions around getting a vampire with supeior viccitude to
> > bauble a Assault Rifle onto a vampire with superior Obtenebration. The
> > vampire with the superior Obtenebration and the Assault Rifle then
> > Descends into Darkness. While the vampire with Assault Rifle is out of
> > play the baubled vampire burns the bauble. During your influence phase
> > the vampire with the Descent into Darkeness gains two blood and
> > returns to play with the now FREE ASSAULT RIFLE! Shennanigans ensue.
>
> I saw a version of this deck that also used Corporal Reservoir for
> additional blood gain through Descent. Tap the Reservoirs before
> Descending, gain the blood, and then they come back untapped once you
> return from the Darkness.
Yes there is a good core of Black Hand vampires that this could wrap
around (2 seraphs, and 2 Obtenebration fighters)
> > Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 4 max: 7 average: 5.67
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > 1x Henri Lavenant 7 DOM OBT pot qui Lasombra:3
> > 1x Kazimir Savostin 7 AUS VIC ani pot Tzimisce:3
> > 1x Omme Enberbenight 7 MYT OBT cel dom priscus Kiasyd:4
> > 1x Duality 6 AUS VIC ani Tzimisce:4
> > 1x Onaedo 6 DOM OBT aus pot Lasombra:4
> > 1x Otieno 6 OBT POT ani dom Lasombra:4
> > 1x Ana Rita Montaña 5 VIC aus dom obf Tzimisce:3
> > 1x Andrew Emory 5 OBT aus dom pot bishop Lasombra:4
> > 1x Dame Hollerton 5 DOM OBT myt Kiasyd:4
> > 1x Ermenegildo, The R 5 DOM OBT pot Lasombra:4
> > 1x Rose, The 5 PRE VIC aus Tzimisce:3
> > 1x Jane Sims 4 VIC ani aus pro Tzimisce:4
>
> You might consider dropping the War Ghoul angle, since Assault Rifles
> will likely be sufficient. I think your key minion could be Ramiro,
> who is cheap and Lasombra with vic (and you only need inferior.) I
> would consider a crypt like this:
You really need superior Viccitude IMHO so that you can immediately
burn the Bauble after your Lasombra descends into darkness. You then
pop him back out during your influence phase.
> 3x Ramiro
> 1x Christine Boscacci
> 1x Horatio
> 2x Henri Lavenant
> 2x Banjoko
> 1x Gratiano
> 1x Guido Lucciano
> 1x Talley, the Hound
Superior Vicissitude is really necessary to make the deck run so that
you can complete all the mechanics on the same turn. If you do it
with inferior Vicissitude then you have to wait until the influence
phase of your next turn to bring your vampires back into play.
> > Action Modifier [10]
> > 3x Conditioning
> > 3x Shroud of Absence
> > 2x Shroud of Night
> > 2x Tenebrous Form
>
> Might consider a Shadow Play or two.
>
> > Combat [10]
> > 3x Arms of the Abyss
> > 4x Shadow Body
> > 3x Shadow Step
>
> I like more Arms of the Abyss, because it's so good against anything
> except grapple. Of course, if you maneuver with the gun, you can't
> Arms of the Abyss. Therefore, I'd also suggest Darkness Within, since
> it gives you a maneuver.
an interesting twist, and depending on your meta that is fine, but as
simple dodge beats an Assault Rifle at long.
> > Equipment [7]
> > 7x Assault Rifle
> > Master [12]
> > 5x Blood Doll
> > 2x Haven Uncovered
> > 5x Wash
>
> Seems like you could have more masters here, since you only effectly
> have 7. If you like the Corporal Reservoir angle, you could replace
> several Wash with them. I'd also add a Blooding or two for your
> actions. I also like The Barrens to get rid of extra Assault Rifles
> once you have what you need. Maybe Fame?
Certainly there is a lot of directions that you can take the deck.
This draft is mainly to sketch out the basics without focusing on one
aspect too much.
>It might also be nice to have some of the good Lasombra masters, like
>Power Structure, Political Hunting Ground, and Elysian Fields.>On that note, the Zaire River Ferry seems decent, too.
Certainly, those are very good suggestions, and I will try to work
them into the next interation of the deck
[ quoted text not captured ]
> It might also be nice to have some of the good Lasombra masters, like
> Power Structure, Political Hunting Ground, and Elysian Fields.
>
> On that note, the Zaire River Ferry seems decent, too.
How about this?
Deck Name : Meat Puppets Jumping at Shadows v2.0
Author : Norman S. Brown Jr
Description :
The deck functions around getting a vampire with supeior viccitude to
bauble a Assault Rifle onto a vampire with superior Obtenebration. The
vampire with the superior Obtenebration and the Assault Rifle then
Descends into Darkness. While the vampire with Assault Rifle is out of
play the baubled vampire burns the bauble. During your influence phase
the vampire with the Descent into Darkeness gains two blood and
returns to play with the now FREE ASSAULT RIFLE! Shennanigans ensue.
Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 4 max: 7 average: 5.67
Crypt [11 vampires] Capacity min: 5 max: 7 average: 6
------------------------------------------------------------
3x Kazimir Savostin 7 AUS VIC ani pot Tzimisce:3
2x Henri Lavenant 7 DOM OBT pot qui Lasombra:3
2x Banjoko 5 DOM obt pot Lasombra:3
1x Duality 6 AUS VIC ani Tzimisce:4
1x Ana Rita Montaña 5 VIC aus dom obf Tzimisce:3
1x Andrew Emory 5 OBT aus dom pot bishop Lasombra:4
1x Ermenegildo, The R 5 DOM OBT pot Lasombra:4
Library [90 cards]
------------------------------------------------------------
Action [26]
7x Bauble
2x Black Metamorphosis
7x Descent into Darkness
7x Govern the Unaligned
3x Graverobbing
Action Modifier [11]
3x Conditioning
4x Council of Seraphim
2x Shroud of Night
2x Tenebrous Form
Ally [2]
2x War Ghoul
Combat [9]
3x Arms of the Abyss
3x Shadow Body
3x Shadow Step
Equipment [7]
7x Assault Rifle
Master [19]
5x Blood Doll
5x Corporal Reservoir
1x Dreams of the Sphinx
1x Elysian Fields
1x Haven Uncovered
1x Power Structure
3x Wash
1x Watchtower: Chosen are Called
1x Watchtower: Four Ride Forth
Political Action [1]
1x Watchtower: Greatest Fall
Reaction [12]
9x Deflection
3x On the Qui Vive
Retainer [3]
1x J. S. Simmons, Esq.
1x Mr. Winthrop
1x Tasha Morgan
Crafted with : Anarch Revolt Deck Builder. [Tue May 01 20:42:45 2007]
[ quoted text not captured ]
[ quoted text not captured ]> Archon of the Swamp-
I think the main weakness of your deck is that when you have the
assault rifle, kazimir is a mismatch in your deck. So although he can
play the council and probably get the bauble done, it might be
worthwhile checking if it's not a better choice to retain a solid
minion after this, because the investment of 7 is a bit sketchy imo.
Robert Scythe made a great version of this deck, I would reccommend
taking a look at his iteration:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_frm/thread/64861cea94b103f7/9d0ae7b7d00e0bfe
Another crypt option would be to try and combine similar spreads with
obt and/or vic.
for instance:
3x Nostoket: 8, obt ANI PRO Black Hand
2x Philippe: 7, obt ani PRO Black Hand
1x Tahibita: 4, obt pro
2x Jane Sims: 4, VIC ani pro
2x Horrock, 5, vic ANI PRO
2x Darvag, 8, VIC ANI pro Black Hand
Then perhaps with a few protean skill cards added. Heidelberg should
also assist with bloodmanagement. Obtenebration doesn't need to be
superior if you've got sufficient wakes and your only obt card is
descent.
Or perhaps a crypt based on matthew romans/the malk vic-guys (removing
the black hand angle)
Also, your bloodmanagement needs to be slightly more intensive. A lot
of your cards cost blood, and a one-turn descent only nets you one (5
corporal reservoirs do not change that by all that much) - I'd use
more corporals, or some perfectionist/hg/coven stuff.
Cheers,
B
On May 1, 5:44 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
> On May 1, 6:23 pm, "ira...@gmail.com" <ira...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On May 1, 3:34 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
> > > Deck Name : Meat Puppets Jumping at Shadows
> > > Author : Norman S. Brown Jr
> > > Description :
> > > The deck functions around getting a vampire with supeior viccitude to
> > > bauble a Assault Rifle onto a vampire with superior Obtenebration. The
> > > vampire with the superior Obtenebration and the Assault Rifle then
> > > Descends into Darkness. While the vampire with Assault Rifle is out of
> > > play the baubled vampire burns the bauble. During your influence phase
> > > the vampire with the Descent into Darkeness gains two blood and
> > > returns to play with the now FREE ASSAULT RIFLE! Shennanigans ensue.
>
> > I saw a version of this deck that also used Corporal Reservoir for
> > additional blood gain through Descent. Tap the Reservoirs before
> > Descending, gain the blood, and then they come back untapped once you
> > return from the Darkness.
>
> Yes there is a good core of Black Hand vampires that this could wrap
> around (2 seraphs, and 2 Obtenebration fighters)
As Bram mentioned, the deck I was remembering was built by Robert
Scythe.
> You really need superior Viccitude IMHO so that you can immediately
> burn the Bauble after your Lasombra descends into darkness. You then
> pop him back out during your influence phase.
It's my understanding that you can do this with inferior vic, due to
the card text on Bauble:
Bauble
vic: Put this card on the acting vampire. Search through your library
and put a non-unique, non-location equipment card on another minion
you control.Do not pay the cost to equip. The vampire with this card
cannot attempt actions, block or vote. You may burn this card and the
chosen equipment card during your untap phase or ****when the vampire
with the chosen equipment leaves the controlled region.****
Emphasis mine. When the vampire Descends, he leaves the controlled
region, and therefore you can burn the Bauble.
It seems like this deck has stirred up some stuff with the RT, since
they're going to review that ruling soon. :)
I think once you agree that inferior vic is sufficient, you'll have
better crypt options.
> an interesting twist, and depending on your meta that is fine, but as
> simple dodge beats an Assault Rifle at long.
Arms of the Abyss beats dodge, but you can't play Arms if you use the
manuever from the gun. Which is why I suggested Darkness Within, so
you could manuever with the Darkness, then Arms of the Abyss.
Ira
> It's my understanding that you can do this with inferior vic, due to
> the card text on Bauble:
>
> Bauble
> vic: Put this card on the acting vampire. Search through your library
> and put a non-unique, non-location equipment card on another minion
> you control.Do not pay the cost to equip. The vampire with this card
> cannot attempt actions, block or vote. You may burn this card and the
> chosen equipment card during your untap phase or ****when the vampire
> with the chosen equipment leaves the controlled region.****
>
> Emphasis mine. When the vampire Descends, he leaves the controlled
> region, and therefore you can burn the Bauble.
I don't think you understand Bauble very well, which is
understandable.
...The VAMPIRE WITH THIS CARD CANNOT ATTEMPT ACTIONS.... (emphasis
mine)
So the vampire with the Assault Rifle descends into Darkness and while
he is down there, the other vampire (the one with the bauble on him)
burns the bauble. The Assault Rifle is out of play. The Assault
Rifle is not affected by the Bauble in play being burned.
Superior Vissicitude is required so that you can burn the bauble
immediately so that you can immediately bring back your descended
vampire during your influence phase THIS TURN.
[vic] Put this card on the acting vampire. Search your library and put
a non-unique, non-location equipment card on another minion you
control. Do not pay the cost to equip. The vampire with this card
cannot attempt actions, block or vote. You may burn this card and the
chosen equipment card during your****untap phase***** or when the
minion with the chosen equipment leaves the controlled region.
[VIC] As above, but you may burn this card and the chosen equipment at
any time.
So all in one turn you can Bauble with vampire A, Descend with Assault
Rifle bearing vampire B, burn Bauble with vampire A, then during your
influence phase vampire B comes back into play, untapped with 2 more
blood, and the now FREE ASSAULT RIFLE.
If you have inferior vicissitude then have to wait until your untap
phase to burn the bauble.
If you have inferior obtenebratoin then you come back into play
tapped.
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
I'm not just acting superior. I really need it to pull this off. ;)
XZealot wrote:
>> It's my understanding that you can do this with inferior vic, due to
>> the card text on Bauble:
>>
>> Bauble
>> vic: Put this card on the acting vampire. Search through your library
>> and put a non-unique, non-location equipment card on another minion
>> you control.Do not pay the cost to equip. The vampire with this card
>> cannot attempt actions, block or vote. You may burn this card and the
>> chosen equipment card during your untap phase or ****when the vampire
>> with the chosen equipment leaves the controlled region.****
>>
>> Emphasis mine. When the vampire Descends, he leaves the controlled
>> region, and therefore you can burn the Bauble.>
> I don't think you understand Bauble very well, which is
> understandable.
>> ....The VAMPIRE WITH THIS CARD CANNOT ATTEMPT ACTIONS.... (emphasis> mine)
>
> So the vampire with the Assault Rifle descends into Darkness and while
> he is down there, the other vampire (the one with the bauble on him)
> burns the bauble. The Assault Rifle is out of play. The Assault
> Rifle is not affected by the Bauble in play being burned.
>
> Superior Vissicitude is required so that you can burn the bauble
> immediately so that you can immediately bring back your descended
> vampire during your influence phase THIS TURN.
>
> [vic] Put this card on the acting vampire. Search your library and put
> a non-unique, non-location equipment card on another minion you
> control. Do not pay the cost to equip. The vampire with this card
> cannot attempt actions, block or vote. You may burn this card and the
> chosen equipment card during your****untap phase***** or when the
> minion with the chosen equipment leaves the controlled region.
>
> [VIC] As above, but you may burn this card and the chosen equipment at
> any time.
>
> So all in one turn you can Bauble with vampire A, Descend with Assault
> Rifle bearing vampire B, burn Bauble with vampire A, then during your
> influence phase vampire B comes back into play, untapped with 2 more
> blood, and the now FREE ASSAULT RIFLE.
>
> If you have inferior vicissitude then have to wait until your untap
> phase to burn the bauble.
>
> If you have inferior obtenebratoin then you come back into play
> tapped.
uh, no Norm. Inferior vic is fine.
Vamp A plays bauble at vic, giving Assult rifle to vamp B.
Vamp B then Descends. Since Vamp B just descended (leaving the
controlled region), Vamp A can now (right now, this very same minion
phase) burn the bauble using the "when the minion with the chosen
equipment leaves the controlled region" clause of inferior vic. Since B
is out of play, the assault rifle stays.
Then that influence phase, you bring B back up, with an assault rifle.
With no Bauble around to stop vamp A doing stuff.
Just like you want.
--
salem
(replace 'hotmail' with 'yahoo' to email)
[ quoted text not captured ]
Okay, so maybe I am not as familiar with Bauble as I would like. I'm
still going to have to go with Seraph, because Obtenebration and
Bauble seems like a must block action.
I think I am going to add some Seraph's Seconds and Tattoo Signals to
make it extra fun.
On May 2, 4:29 pm, Salem <salem_christ....@hotmail.com> wrote:
[ quoted text not captured ]
But it burns the equipment per card text when the vampire leaves the
controlled region as per card text. LSJ?
Now I am totally confused.
[ quoted text not captured ]
XZealot wrote:
> On May 2, 4:29 pm, Salem <salem_christ....@hotmail.com> wrote:>>>> Bauble
>>>> vic: Put this card on the acting vampire. Search through your library
>>>> and put a non-unique, non-location equipment card on another minion
>>>> you control.Do not pay the cost to equip. The vampire with this card
>>>> cannot attempt actions, block or vote. You may burn this card and the
>>>> chosen equipment card during your untap phase or ****when the vampire
>>>> with the chosen equipment leaves the controlled region.****
>>>> Emphasis mine. When the vampire Descends, he leaves the controlled
>>>> region, and therefore you can burn the Bauble.>> Vamp A plays bauble at vic, giving Assult rifle to vamp B.>>
>> Vamp B then Descends. Since Vamp B just descended (leaving the
>> controlled region), Vamp A can now (right now, this very same minion
>> phase) burn the bauble using the "when the minion with the chosen
>> equipment leaves the controlled region" clause of inferior vic. Since B
>> is out of play, the assault rifle stays.>
> But it burns the equipment per card text when the vampire leaves the
> controlled region as per card text. LSJ?
Which "the vampire"?
What card text says to burn it?
[ quoted text not captured ]
If you use this effect to burn the bauble when the vampire B leaves
the controlled region due to Descent into Darkness doesn't the
equipment burn as well due to the bauble burning while the vampire B
is leaving the controlled region?
[ quoted text not captured ]
[ quoted text not captured ]
Salem and Ira are incorrect. When you use the burn this card-and-
equipment when the vampire with the equipment leaves the controlled
area, the equipment burns before the vampire leaves the controlled
area.
This is also mentioned in the (in the other thread) previously linked
Bauble-and-banishment thread:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/bff09026fb78ba30?hl=en&
Cheers,
Bram
[ quoted text not captured ]
Correct.
But if you burn it on the next untap phase (or "at any time" later if superior),
then it works. Currently. The lack of legal targets for the burn effect puts
that ruling under review.
On May 2, 10:48 pm, Bram Vink <jja.v...@hccnet.nl> wrote:
> Salem and Ira are incorrect. When you use the burn this card-and-
> equipment when the vampire with the equipment leaves the controlled
> area, the equipment burns before the vampire leaves the controlled
> area.
Based on LSJ's reply, I understand that I was wrong. I don't
understand WHY I'm wrong, though.
1) Vampire Decends. The action resolves.
2) On the resolution of the action, the text on inferior bauble can be
triggered, since the vampire has left the controlled region.
1 must be complete before 2, and therefore I thought that burning the
bauble couldn't affect an out-of-play assault rifle.
Apparently the vampire isn't really uncontrolled yet, so the Assault
Rifle is still in play and would be burned. But that doesn't make
sense to me. From a game balance perspective, it's probably for the
best, though. :)
Looks like VIC it is.
Ira
[ quoted text not captured ]
2 triggers during 1. The vampire is LEAVING the controlled region,
but has not LEFT the controlled region. The gun therefore is still in
play.
On May 2, 4:42 am, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
> > It might also be nice to have some of the good Lasombra masters, like
> > Power Structure, Political Hunting Ground, and Elysian Fields.
>
> > On that note, the Zaire River Ferry seems decent, too.
>
> How about this?
>
> Deck Name : Meat Puppets Jumping at Shadows v2.0
> Author : Norman S. Brown Jr
> Description :
> The deck functions around getting a vampire with supeior viccitude to
> bauble a Assault Rifle onto a vampire with superior Obtenebration. The
> vampire with the superior Obtenebration and the Assault Rifle then
> Descends into Darkness. While the vampire with Assault Rifle is out of
> play the baubled vampire burns the bauble. During your influence phase
> the vampire with the Descent into Darkeness gains two blood and
> returns to play with the now FREE ASSAULT RIFLE! Shennanigans ensue.
>
Thanks for the great combo idea! How about this implementation?
Deck Name: Baubling Descent
Created By: Ilya Ginsburg
Description: Fetch what you need!
Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 20, Max: 27, Avg: 5,58)
----------------------------------------------
1 Henri Lavenant pot qui DOM OBT 7 Lasombra
1 Kestrelle Hayes dom for obt AUS 6 Ventrue
Antitribu
2 Banjoko obt pot DOM 5 Lasombra
2 Ermenegildo pot DOM OBT 5 Lasombra
2 Kazimir Savostin ani pot AUS VIC 7 Tzimisce
4 Luc dem vic OBF 5 Malkavian
Antitribu
Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (17 cards)
2 Drop Point Network
2 Hand Contract
1 Watchtower: Four Ride Forth
2 Haven Uncovered
2 Fame
3 Dreams of the Sphinx
4 Blood Doll
1 Shakar
Action (29 cards)
6 Sibyl`s Tongue
5 Descent into Darkness
1 Tattoo Signal
1 Black Hand Emissary
2 Black Metamorphosis
4 Bauble
5 Rumble
5 Bum`s Rush
Action Modifier (6 cards)
6 Veil the Legions
Reaction (5 cards)
5 Deflection
Combat (27 cards)
6 Entombment
10 Arms of the Abyss
4 Darkness Within
4 Shadow Step
3 Thrown Sewer Lid
Equipment (6 cards)
4 Assault Rifle
1 Heart of Nizchetus
1 Guarded Rubrics
This is a rush deck (you need to use your Assault Rifle at its full
potential!) Luc is a star here. Use him to dig for the cards, to
increase your hand for the rushes, and he can play Bauble, too!
Fetch Bauble and/or Descent, if you need. Also, you can fetch Heart,
Watchtower, Guarded Rubrics and everything else. You can do something
in combat even without rifle, but with the rifle you can fight much
better! Arms of the Abyss works great with the rifle as well as with
Entombment, Black Metamorphosis is very cool, and so on. What do you
think?
Yours,
Ector
On May 3, 5:08 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
> 2 triggers during 1. The vampire is LEAVING the controlled region,
> but has not LEFT the controlled region. The gun therefore is still in
> play.
Correct, which is why my original design planned for that. However,
that deck was made even before the trifle rule had been updated. Also
that deck bloated with Corporals so did not mind staying down an extra
turn to gain the free Ass Rifles/Flamethrowers since it was also a net
gain of 3 blood. I did initially want VIC for the immediate gain, but
Ramiro was just too useful since he could utilize Elysian Fields and
Shroud of Absence plus still Wake and Deflect. I do like the idea of
using the new BH toys, though. An inclusion that should happen in your
deck idea is a Helicopter because when Baubled it should come into
play untapped allowing immediate multi-action. I haven't Bauble/
Descended in a while so this should be fun again. I usually come to a
Jyhad session with at least one Descend deck, though (people have
almost forgotten my previous overuse of Serpentis for the Obten in the
way).
[ quoted text not captured ]
I don't see Kestrelle doing as much as another Henri.
Average capacity 5.58. Key minions both being 7 caps.....14 pool to
get up and running. Back up vampire 4 copies for Luc. Is Luc the
lynchpin, because he is only bauble fodder to me. You would have to
chose between him and Kazmir, who is vastly superior. Luc has
inferior vic, which is way bad....
> Library: (90 cards)
> -------------------
> Master (17 cards)
> 2 Drop Point Network
> 2 Hand Contract
> 1 Watchtower: Four Ride Forth
> 2 Haven Uncovered
> 2 Fame
> 3 Dreams of the Sphinx
> 4 Blood Doll
> 1 Shakar
hmm...rush based master selection....seems solid (4 master rushes).
> Action (29 cards)
> 6 Sibyl`s Tongue
> 5 Descent into Darkness
> 1 Tattoo Signal
> 1 Black Hand Emissary
> 2 Black Metamorphosis
> 4 Bauble
> 5 Rumble
> 5 Bum`s Rush
29 actions (remember average capacity is 5.58 but in reality you are
going to have two vampires and 16 pool to start with)
.....10 of those actions are rushes
> Action Modifier (6 cards)
> 6 Veil the Legions
Of course....
> Reaction (5 cards)
> 5 Deflection
a little on the weak side.....
> Combat (27 cards)
> 6 Entombment
> 10 Arms of the Abyss
> 4 Darkness Within
> 4 Shadow Step
> 3 Thrown Sewer Lid
27 combat cards...not a single one trumps S:CE
> Equipment (6 cards)
> 4 Assault Rifle
> 1 Heart of Nizchetus
> 1 Guarded Rubrics
>
> This is a rush deck (you need to use your Assault Rifle at its full
> potential!) Luc is a star here. Use him to dig for the cards, to
> increase your hand for the rushes, and he can play Bauble, too!
> Fetch Bauble and/or Descent, if you need. Also, you can fetch Heart,
> Watchtower, Guarded Rubrics and everything else. You can do something
> in combat even without rifle, but with the rifle you can fight much
> better! Arms of the Abyss works great with the rifle as well as with
> Entombment, Black Metamorphosis is very cool, and so on. What do you
> think?
I think you are going to be ousted very fast. I don't think you have
enough Baubles, Descents and Assault rifles to complete the
combination early enough in the game to pull it off. You will be
tempted to actually pay for the Assault Rifle which is the kiss of
death for this deck. You have no pool management at all (think
Governs....). I think that Luc is going to get you into trouble as his
inferior vic means that you have to keep both him and your desceded
vampire out of play for an extra turn, which leaves you wide-open to
get pounded.
It's a rush deck with no combat trumps with very little defense and a
high capacity crypt with no multiaction. I would look to shore up
these areas.
[ quoted text not captured ]
On May 4, 3:14 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> I don't see Kestrelle doing as much as another Henri.
Well, she's cheaper, she is different (having both Henries in your
crypt opening is bad), and she has a nice special.
> Average capacity 5.58. Key minions both being 7 caps.....14 pool to
> get up and running. Back up vampire 4 copies for Luc. Is Luc the
> lynchpin, because he is only bauble fodder to me. You would have to
> chose between him and Kazmir, who is vastly superior. Luc has
> inferior vic, which is way bad....
No, "key minions" here are Luc, one of two Seraphs (though you may go
without him) and at least one vampire with OBT. Ermenegildo is almost
as good as Henri.
The best opening is Luc + Banjoko + Ermenegildo = 15 pool for 3
vampires.
Luc is AWESOME. You will dig up the cards you need. Inferior
Vicissitude is bad, but you can live one turn without the rifle (if
you cannot, you're going to lose anyway).
> > Library: (90 cards)
> > -------------------
> > Master (17 cards)
> > 2 Drop Point Network
> > 2 Hand Contract
> > 1 Watchtower: Four Ride Forth
> > 2 Haven Uncovered
> > 2 Fame
> > 3 Dreams of the Sphinx
> > 4 Blood Doll
> > 1 Shakar
>
> hmm...rush based master selection....seems solid (4 master rushes).
5 master rushes - 2 Hand Contracts, 2 Haven Uncovereds and Shakar.
> 29 actions (remember average capacity is 5.58 but in reality you are
> going to have two vampires and 16 pool to start with)
>
> .....10 of those actions are rushes
This may be too much, considering 5 master rush cards. I'll think
about it.
> > Action Modifier (6 cards)
> > 6 Veil the Legions
>
> Of course....
Why not? You have Luc with superior Obfuscate, you don't need his
blood, why not get +1 stealth for all your vamps?
> > Reaction (5 cards)
> > 5 Deflection
>
> a little on the weak side.....
You mean, too little of them?
> > Combat (27 cards)
> > 6 Entombment
> > 10 Arms of the Abyss
> > 4 Darkness Within
> > 4 Shadow Step
> > 3 Thrown Sewer Lid
>
> 27 combat cards...not a single one trumps S:CE
Well, really. But there aren't too many cards that trump S:CE. As long
as the best one for the Rifles is Psyche!, I guess I should build a
deck with some CEL/obt vampires. Jacko is the best - one additional
strike without any cards!!! Jessica is also very cool - CEL/OBT and a
vote for 7 pool.
> I think you are going to be ousted very fast. I don't think you have
> enough Baubles, Descents and Assault rifles to complete the
> combination early enough in the game to pull it off. You will be
> tempted to actually pay for the Assault Rifle which is the kiss of
> death for this deck. You have no pool management at all (think
> Governs....). I think that Luc is going to get you into trouble as his
> inferior vic means that you have to keep both him and your desceded
> vampire out of play for an extra turn, which leaves you wide-open to
> get pounded.
>
> It's a rush deck with no combat trumps with very little defense and a
> high capacity crypt with no multiaction. I would look to shore up
> these areas.
>
Firstly, I have 4 Blood Dolls as a pool management, and my average
capacity is lower than yours. Secondly, I have 2 Drop Point Networks +
6 Sibyl's Tongues + Luc + 4 Baubles + 5 Descents. I really think that
I'm going to run the combo much, much faster than you. Without paying
the pool for Assault Rifle. And note that I can really hit somebody
even without the rifle, especially some Fortitude-based deck.
All that said, you are completely right here, my deck isn't very
effective in its current form. But I still think that it's much more
effective than any of your versions. What are YOU planning to do?
Surely, you have Governs, but you don't have much stealth, and
intercept will kill you. Also, you don't have much combat, and true
combat deck will also kill you. You have a lot of bounce, true, but I
don't think that a good S&B will fail to oust you. I thought that
we're sharing deck IDEAS, not the tournament-ready decks here, right?
Yours,
Ector
On Thu, 3 May 2007, at 6:40am, LSJ wrote:
> Bram Vink wrote:
>
> > When you use the burn this card-and- equipment when the vampire with
> > the equipment leaves the controlled area, the equipment burns before
> > the vampire leaves the controlled area.
> >
> > This is also mentioned in the (in the other thread) previously
> > linked Bauble-and-banishment thread:
> > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/bff09026fb78ba30?hl=en&
>
> Correct.
So does this mean that "When X happens" should be read as "When X is
happening, but before it finishes happening?"
> But if you burn it on the next untap phase (or "at any time" later if
> superior), then it works. Currently. The lack of legal targets for
> the burn effect puts that ruling under review.
I think this is the "Legal Targets" ruling you are basing the review on:
> Playing Cards:
> If a card targets (chooses, selects, is played on, etc.) some
> target, then the card can only be played if an appropriate target is
> available. Examples: Strike: Steal/Destroy Equipment/Weapon cannot be
> used if the opposing minion doesn't have a suitable Equipment/Weapon
> to be destroyed/stolen. [RTR 19980928] [LSJ 20030408]
(If that's not correct, would you mind indicating what's prompting the
review? Assuming it is correct, for now...)
So, what is a target, exactly? It seems like it's something that you
choose. Note that the ruling on targeting cards seems to be about
choice. It even uses the words "chooses" and "selects." If I play
Strike: Destroy Equipment vs. an opponent who has multiple equipment, I
have to choose which one to destroy... thus I have to have a valid
choice, thus a valid choice must exist before I can choose it.
It doesn't seem that Bauble's burn clause involves choosing, selecting,
etc. It's "you burn this specific thing and that specific thing." If
the weapon is not controlled, it seems to be a case of being unable to
do the complete effect, so in such cases, don't you proceed by doing
what you can anyways? Like Blood to Water vs. a vampire with only two
blood?
If you really think this needs reviewing, would you consider reviewing
the following scenario also, or point out why it's dissimilar?
I play Blessing of the Name and choose three of my minions. By my next
untap phase, one of them becomes no longer controlled (such as with
Descent into Darkness.) Do we need to question whether the "burn this
card and tap the chosen minions" takes effect, since all of it's "targets"
(if they are indeed targets for that part of the effect) are not around?
davey wrote:
> On Thu, 3 May 2007, at 6:40am, LSJ wrote:
>>> Bram Vink wrote:
>>>>> When you use the burn this card-and- equipment when the vampire with
>>> the equipment leaves the controlled area, the equipment burns before
>>> the vampire leaves the controlled area.
>>>
>>> This is also mentioned in the (in the other thread) previously
>>> linked Bauble-and-banishment thread:
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/bff09026fb78ba30?hl=en&>> Correct.>
> So does this mean that "When X happens" should be read as "When X is
> happening, but before it finishes happening?"
It means when it happens, not later, yeah.
>> But if you burn it on the next untap phase (or "at any time" later if
>> superior), then it works. Currently. The lack of legal targets for
>> the burn effect puts that ruling under review.>
> I think this is the "Legal Targets" ruling you are basing the review on:
>>> Playing Cards:
>> If a card targets (chooses, selects, is played on, etc.) some
>> target, then the card can only be played if an appropriate target is
>> available. Examples: Strike: Steal/Destroy Equipment/Weapon cannot be
>> used if the opposing minion doesn't have a suitable Equipment/Weapon
>> to be destroyed/stolen. [RTR 19980928] [LSJ 20030408]>
> (If that's not correct, would you mind indicating what's prompting the
> review? Assuming it is correct, for now...)
>
> So, what is a target, exactly? It seems like it's something that you
> choose.
It is the target of the effect. The thing the effect affects. The object of the
action.
The target of the action to burn an Army of Rats in the "burn this card" action
provided by Army of Rats is the Army of Rats card, even though there is no choice.
> Note that the ruling on targeting cards seems to be about
> choice.
It is not, nor should is seem that way. See the text you quoted. "targets
(chooses, selects, is played on, etc.)"
> It even uses the words "chooses" and "selects."
... and "is played on" and "etc." with no indication that the list of examples
is constraining in any way.
> If I play
> Strike: Destroy Equipment vs. an opponent who has multiple equipment, I
> have to choose which one to destroy... thus I have to have a valid
> choice, thus a valid choice must exist before I can choose it.
Yes.
And if he has only 1, you have no choice, but still must have a target.
If he has 0, you cannot play it, since there is nothing to target.
> It doesn't seem that Bauble's burn clause involves choosing, selecting,
> etc.
It doesn't involve choosing in the "among options" sense. It does involve
choosing in the select sense (or the identify sense).
It does selects the equipment. Selecting it for burning.
Targeting it. Burning it.
> It's "you burn this specific thing and that specific thing." If
"that thing" being the target of the effect of burning.
What is the target of the burn effect?
That thing.
> the weapon is not controlled, it seems to be a case of being unable to
> do the complete effect, so in such cases, don't you proceed by doing
> what you can anyways?
If the effect was being generated, yes.
Like an attempt to burn a weapon with superior Fractured Armament after the
weapon burned itself as a strike with first strike. The Fractured Armament
strike would still inflict 1 damage (even though the "burn equipment" part fizzles).
> Like Blood to Water vs. a vampire with only two
> blood?
Blood to Water targets the minion, not the blood.
It cannot be played if there is no minion to target.
> If you really think this needs reviewing, would you consider reviewing
> the following scenario also, or point out why it's dissimilar?
Dissimilarity: optional vs. mandatory (as in the Fractured Armament case --
allowed when it is mandatory, even if there is no equipment, but disallowed when
it is optional and there is no equipment).
> I play Blessing of the Name and choose three of my minions. By my next
> untap phase, one of them becomes no longer controlled (such as with
> Descent into Darkness.) Do we need to question whether the "burn this
> card and tap the chosen minions" takes effect, since all of it's "targets"
> (if they are indeed targets for that part of the effect) are not around?
No, since it is not optional.
Blessing of the Name doesn't say "you may burn this card and tap the chosen
minions".
> Well, really. But there aren't too many cards that trump S:CE. As long
> as the best one for the Rifles is Psyche!, I guess I should build a
> deck with some CEL/obt vampires. Jacko is the best - one additional
> strike without any cards!!! Jessica is also very cool - CEL/OBT and a
> vote for 7 pool.
BRILLIANT!!
Deck Name : Brujah Shadowslingers
Author : Norman S. Brown Jr
Description :
The deck functions around getting a vampire with viccitude to bauble a
Assault Rifle onto a vampire with Obtenebration. The vampire with the
Obtenebration and the Assault Rifle then Descends into Darkness.
While the vampire with Assault Rifle is out of play the baubled
vampire burns the bauble. During your influence phase the vampire
with the Descent into Darkeness gains two blood and returns to play
with the now FREE ASSAULT RIFLE! Shennanigans ensue.
Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 4 max: 10 average: 6.25
------------------------------------------------------------
5x Hugo 4 POT pre vic !Brujah:2
2x Bronwen 10 CEL POT PRE dom obt priscus !Brujah:2
2x Jacko 8 CEL POT PRE obt !Brujah:2
1x Sela Adv 7 POT PRE cel obt archbishop !Brujah:2
1x Sela 6 POT PRE cel obt bishop !Brujah:2
1x Jeremiah Noble 6 CEL POT obt pre !Brujah:3
Library [90 cards]
------------------------------------------------------------
Action [22]
6x Bauble
2x Black Metamorphosis
7x Descent into Darkness
1x Epiphany
5x Flurry of Action
1x Graverobbing
Action Modifier [17]
4x Bewitching Oration
6x Iron Glare
2x Shroud of Night
5x Voter Captivation
Combat [15]
3x Darkness Within
6x Psyche!
3x Shadow Body
3x Shadow Step
Equipment [4]
4x Assault Rifle
Master [19]
4x Blood Doll
1x Dreams of the Sphinx
2x Gang Territory
2x Haven Uncovered
6x Minion Tap
1x Regent
3x Wash
Political Action [13]
5x Auto-da-fé
4x Cardinal Benediction
4x Dogs of War
Crafted with : Anarch Revolt Deck Builder. [Fri May 04 12:47:30 2007]
[ quoted text not captured ]
On May 4, 11:14 am, Ector <E...@mail.ru> wrote:
> On May 4, 3:14 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > I don't see Kestrelle doing as much as another Henri.
>
> Well, she's cheaper, she is different (having both Henries in your
> crypt opening is bad), and she has a nice special.
>
> > Average capacity 5.58. Key minions both being 7 caps.....14 pool to
> > get up and running. Back up vampire 4 copies for Luc. Is Luc the
> > lynchpin, because he is only bauble fodder to me. You would have to
> > chose between him and Kazmir, who is vastly superior. Luc has
> > inferior vic, which is way bad....
>
> No, "key minions" here are Luc, one of two Seraphs (though you may go
> without him) and at least one vampire with OBT. Ermenegildo is almost
> as good as Henri.
> The best opening is Luc + Banjoko + Ermenegildo = 15 pool for 3
> vampires.
> Luc is AWESOME. You will dig up the cards you need. Inferior
> Vicissitude is bad, but you can live one turn without the rifle (if
> you cannot, you're going to lose anyway).
I haven't played with him so I am going to take your word for it. Not
having my guy with the rifle (who just so happens to have superior
Dominate) up and untapped could leave you vulnerable to alot of damage
that could have been alleviated with a Deflection. That is what you
are asking for when you play with inferior Vicissitude.
Also with the Bauble in play, Luc or Kaz isn't going to be any use
either as they can't even block with an untap say if you get Seduced.
> > > Library: (90 cards)
> > > -------------------
> > > Master (17 cards)
> > > 2 Drop Point Network
> > > 2 Hand Contract
> > > 1 Watchtower: Four Ride Forth
> > > 2 Haven Uncovered
> > > 2 Fame
> > > 3 Dreams of the Sphinx
> > > 4 Blood Doll
> > > 1 Shakar
>
> > hmm...rush based master selection....seems solid (4 master rushes).
>
> 5 master rushes - 2 Hand Contracts, 2 Haven Uncovereds and Shakar.
Shakar is and excellent card.
> > 29 actions (remember average capacity is 5.58 but in reality you are
> > going to have two vampires and 16 pool to start with)
>
> > .....10 of those actions are rushes
>
> This may be too much, considering 5 master rush cards. I'll think
> about it.
You are very rush focused, which would be my reasoning for having
Trumpier Combat.
> > > Action Modifier (6 cards)
> > > 6 Veil the Legions
>
> > Of course....
>
> Why not? You have Luc with superior Obfuscate, you don't need his
> blood, why not get +1 stealth for all your vamps?
Well, it is a fantastic card, I wasn't being critical of it. I hope
it didn't come off that way.
> > > Reaction (5 cards)
> > > 5 Deflection
>
> > a little on the weak side.....
>
> You mean, too little of them?
It's just that you only have 5 reaction cards. I don't know much
about Belarus, and the closest I've ever come is St. Petersburg/Moscow/
Blagadovaria/ Vladamir-Suzdal, but I digress.
In a 5 player game, 20% of the game is acting and 80% of the game is
reacting. Without votes and without reactions, you just seem to be
playing a weaker game. A strong predator will give you fits as you
have very few reaction cards, and your crypt isn't really built to
curry favors (other than the crosstable rush).
> > > Combat (27 cards)
> > > 6 Entombment
> > > 10 Arms of the Abyss
> > > 4 Darkness Within
> > > 4 Shadow Step
> > > 3 Thrown Sewer Lid
>
> > 27 combat cards...not a single one trumps S:CE
>
> Well, really. But there aren't too many cards that trump S:CE. As long
> as the best one for the Rifles is Psyche!, I guess I should build a
> deck with some CEL/obt vampires. Jacko is the best - one additional
> strike without any cards!!! Jessica is also very cool - CEL/OBT and a
> vote for 7 pool.
Thoughts Betrayed trumps rush.....
> > I think you are going to be ousted very fast. I don't think you have
> > enough Baubles, Descents and Assault rifles to complete the
> > combination early enough in the game to pull it off. You will be
> > tempted to actually pay for the Assault Rifle which is the kiss of
> > death for this deck. You have no pool management at all (think
> > Governs....). I think that Luc is going to get you into trouble as his
> > inferior vic means that you have to keep both him and your desceded
> > vampire out of play for an extra turn, which leaves you wide-open to
> > get pounded.
>
> > It's a rush deck with no combat trumps with very little defense and a
> > high capacity crypt with no multiaction. I would look to shore up
> > these areas.
>
> Firstly, I have 4 Blood Dolls as a pool management, and my average
> capacity is lower than yours.
No offense, but 4 Blood Dolls as a sole form of pool management when
playing with large caps is the mark of death.
But... You are planning on using Deck-Fishers to grab key cards. You
could certainly use that deck-tech to grab blood dolls.
So that sounds interesting. Let me know how it works.
>Secondly, I have 2 Drop Point Networks +
> 6 Sibyl's Tongues + Luc + 4 Baubles + 5 Descents. I really think that
> I'm going to run the combo much, much faster than you. Without paying
> the pool for Assault Rifle. And note that I can really hit somebody
> even without the rifle, especially some Fortitude-based deck.
> All that said, you are completely right here, my deck isn't very
> effective in its current form. But I still think that it's much more
> effective than any of your versions. What are YOU planning to do?
> Surely, you have Governs, but you don't have much stealth, and
> intercept will kill you.
See Shadow Body....
Also, you don't have much combat, and true
> combat deck will also kill you.
See Darkness Within's extra manuever.
> You have a lot of bounce, true, but I
> don't think that a good S&B will fail to oust you.
I think that a S&B deck will choke and die if it tries to bleed me.
> I thought that
> we're sharing deck IDEAS, not the tournament-ready decks here, right?
Just prodding some neurons.
[ quoted text not captured ]
[ quoted text not captured ]
Wonderful deck idea - at least it's very beautiful :) Unfortunately,
you won't have a lot of votes here, so I would definitely drop Voter
Captivations and Auto-da-fe (you need to push Cardinal Benediction or
find Regent first!). Inferior Shadow Step isn't better than good
Celerity cards. All the rest looks pretty funny and really can work.
What do you think about this deck (inspired by your voting efforts):
Deck Name: Melinda Baubled Rifle
Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 20, Max: 40, Avg: 7)
-------------------------------------------
3 Melinda Galbraith obt AUS CEL DOM POT PRE 10
Lasombra
1 Melinda Galbraith (ADV) obt AUS CEL DOM POT PRE 10
Toreador Antitribu
4 Shawnda Dorrit obt pot pre CEL 6 Brujah
Antitribu
4 Luc dem vic OBF 5 Malkavian
Antitribu
Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (13 cards)
1 Trophy: Domain
2 Trophy: Hunting Ground
3 Dreams of the Sphinx
6 Blood Doll
1 Black Forest Base
Action (17 cards)
4 Bauble
4 Descent into Darkness
2 Black Metamorphosis
6 Sibyl`s Tongue
1 Epiphany
Action Modifier (8 cards)
5 Veil the Legions
3 Cloak the Gathering
Political Action (5 cards)
5 Trumped-Up Charges
Reaction (21 cards)
6 Eagle`s Sight
6 Telepathic Misdirection
3 On the Qui Vive
6 Wake with Evening`s Freshness
Combat (20 cards)
8 Psyche!
4 Pursuit
4 Side Strike
4 Amaranth
Equipment (6 cards)
3 Assault Rifle
1 Bowl of Convergence
1 Phased Motion Detector
1 Helicopter
Yes, it's Trophy Hunter with light intercept. But at least it can have
6 votes (7 with merged Melinda), and this allows to diablerize
(remember, Luc has +1 stealth on diablerie) or play Amaranth.
Yours,
Ector
[ quoted text not captured ]
One Question:
What are Iron Glare and Bewitching Oration?
>Inferior Shadow Step isn't better than good
> Celerity cards. All the rest looks pretty funny and really can work.
> What do you think about this deck (inspired by your voting efforts):
>
> Deck Name: Melinda Baubled Rifle
>
> Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 20, Max: 40, Avg: 7)
> -------------------------------------------
> 3 Melinda Galbraith obt AUS CEL DOM POT PRE 10
> Lasombra
> 1 Melinda Galbraith (ADV) obt AUS CEL DOM POT PRE 10
> Toreador Antitribu
> 4 Shawnda Dorrit obt pot pre CEL 6 Brujah
> Antitribu
> 4 Luc dem vic OBF 5 Malkavian
> Antitribu
3 vampires just won't cut it ever in my playgroup. What do you do
with the 6 extra pool that you get from ousting your first prey? You
need to at least round out your crypt with some 1 caps or alternate
vampires.
> Library: (90 cards)
> -------------------
> Master (13 cards)
> 1 Trophy: Domain
> 2 Trophy: Hunting Ground
> 3 Dreams of the Sphinx
> 6 Blood Doll
> 1 Black Forest Base
>
> Action (17 cards)
> 4 Bauble
> 4 Descent into Darkness
> 2 Black Metamorphosis
> 6 Sibyl`s Tongue
> 1 Epiphany
>
> Action Modifier (8 cards)
> 5 Veil the Legions
> 3 Cloak the Gathering
Apparently, this is your new stealth module, Luc, and Veil/Cloak.
> Political Action (5 cards)
> 5 Trumped-Up Charges
You're never going to pass these. You should switch to Red List.
> Reaction (21 cards)
> 6 Eagle`s Sight
> 6 Telepathic Misdirection
> 3 On the Qui Vive
> 6 Wake with Evening`s Freshness
>
> Combat (20 cards)
> 8 Psyche!
> 4 Pursuit
> 4 Side Strike
> 4 Amaranth
>
> Equipment (6 cards)
> 3 Assault Rifle
> 1 Bowl of Convergence
> 1 Phased Motion Detector
This card is junk. Mr. Winthrop or Sport Bike is better.
> 1 Helicopter
>
> Yes, it's Trophy Hunter with light intercept. But at least it can have
> 6 votes (7 with merged Melinda), and this allows to diablerize
> (remember, Luc has +1 stealth on diablerie) or play Amaranth.
Comments Welcome,
[ quoted text not captured ]
On May 5, 6:49 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> One Question:
>
> What are Iron Glare and Bewitching Oration?
Cards that jam in your hand when you need combat cards :) At least in
this deck. Cards that can push your Cardinal Benediction, but not
something else, especially without Bronwen (and you have only two
copies). Besides, you have 4 Bewitchings and 6 Iron Glare, and the
latter provides only 2 votes. How can you be sure that it would be
enough?
> 3 vampires just won't cut it ever in my playgroup. What do you do
> with the 6 extra pool that you get from ousting your first prey? You
> need to at least round out your crypt with some 1 caps or alternate
> vampires.
Well, I may equip another Rifle for the real price :) I thought about
adding the other vampires, but the deck isn't very stable in its
current form, and it really RELIES on having a lot of votes.
>
> Apparently, this is your new stealth module, Luc, and Veil/Cloak.
No, it's just a module for this deck. It really needs some stealth for
the most crucial actions, and sometimes it needs +2 stealth.
> > Political Action (5 cards)
> > 5 Trumped-Up Charges
>
> You're never going to pass these. You should switch to Red List.
Melinda + Shawnda = 6 votes (7 if Melinda is merged). +1 for the card.
I can get the Edge, if needed. Why I'm never going to pass TUC? I may
have allies, too!
Red List is more reliable, but it has no stealth.
> > 1 Phased Motion Detector
>
> This card is junk. Mr. Winthrop or Sport Bike is better.
Surely they are, but it's free, not unique, and it cannot be killed
like Mr. Winthrop. Not a junk if you have Bowl (so they need to play
stealth).
Yours,
Ector
On May 5, 6:49 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
>> Apparently, this is your new stealth module, Luc, and Veil/Cloak.
>
After a second thought, I understood that you're right, 4 Lucs + 4
Veils + 4 Cloaks is a "minimal module" for any fetch-deck. You need
some stealth for Luc and for pushing the most crucial actions - so Luc
provides up to +2 stealth for everybody.
Please note that a package for a weenie deck would be different. You
are likely to need another OBF vampire, and no Cloaks (only Veils).
Yours,
Ector
On May 6, 7:53 am, Ector <E...@mail.ru> wrote:
> On May 5, 6:49 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > One Question:
>
> > What are Iron Glare and Bewitching Oration?
>
> Cards that jam in your hand when you need combat cards :) At least in
> this deck. Cards that can push your Cardinal Benediction, but not
> something else, especially without Bronwen (and you have only two
> copies). Besides, you have 4 Bewitchings and 6 Iron Glare, and the
> latter provides only 2 votes. How can you be sure that it would be
> enough?
Bronwen can platy them at PRE, as can Jacko and Sela. And the +2 bleed
at pre, well thats nothing to sneeze at either. BO can be played at
pre by anyone in the crypt, and by half at PRE. Your point is?
> > 3 vampires just won't cut it ever in my playgroup. What do you do
> > with the 6 extra pool that you get from ousting your first prey? You
> > need to at least round out your crypt with some 1 caps or alternate
> > vampires.
>
> Well, I may equip another Rifle for the real price :) I thought about
> adding the other vampires, but the deck isn't very stable in its
> current form, and it really RELIES on having a lot of votes.
>
> > Apparently, this is your new stealth module, Luc, and Veil/Cloak.
>
> No, it's just a module for this deck. It really needs some stealth for
> the most crucial actions, and sometimes it needs +2 stealth.
>
> > > Political Action (5 cards)
> > > 5 Trumped-Up Charges
>
> > You're never going to pass these. You should switch to Red List.
>
> Melinda + Shawnda = 6 votes (7 if Melinda is merged). +1 for the card.
> I can get the Edge, if needed. Why I'm never going to pass TUC? I may
> have allies, too!
> Red List is more reliable, but it has no stealth.
You could pass these if you had BO and IGlare. But they have no use
according to you. And by the way, building a deck, hoping to have
allies on a table, is suicidal. Prepare for the worst, try for the
best, you know?
>
> > > 1 Phased Motion Detector
>
> > This card is junk. Mr. Winthrop or Sport Bike is better.
>
> Surely they are, but it's free, not unique, and it cannot be killed
> like Mr. Winthrop. Not a junk if you have Bowl (so they need to play
> stealth).
>
> Yours,
> Ector
Its not unique, but you are only playing one of them, so no difference
there. The +1 int is useful, but only if forcing them to play stealth.
However the prob here is that Obf, Chi and Dem are not the only discs
that give stealth..... Mr Winthrop is free too. He can be killed,
true, but at least he cannot be stolen......
On May 6, 3:47 pm, Blooded Sand <sandm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Bronwen can platy them at PRE, as can Jacko and Sela. And the +2 bleed
> at pre, well thats nothing to sneeze at either. BO can be played at
> pre by anyone in the crypt, and by half at PRE. Your point is?
My point was that the Norman's deck was too low on permanent votes to
act like a voting deck. Some of its votes are usually hard to push
(especially Dogs of War), and the used transient votes package (4
Bewitchings + 6 Iron Glare) isn't going to help much, especially
without Bronwen.
I'm NOT trying to say that these cards are weak. I just think that
they are "cards to make the rich one even more rich": they help to
push your votes if you already have a decent number of permanent
votes. They also aid Voter Captivations. But if you don't have perma-
votes, you should replace these cards with Awe. Furthermore, I'd
suggest dropping Auto-da-fe and reducing number of Voter Captivations.
> > > > Political Action (5 cards)
> > > > 5 Trumped-Up Charges
>
> > > You're never going to pass these. You should switch to Red List.
>
> > Melinda + Shawnda = 6 votes (7 if Melinda is merged). +1 for the card.
> > I can get the Edge, if needed. Why I'm never going to pass TUC? I may
> > have allies, too!
> > Red List is more reliable, but it has no stealth.
>
> You could pass these if you had BO and IGlare. But they have no use
> according to you. And by the way, building a deck, hoping to have
> allies on a table, is suicidal. Prepare for the worst, try for the
> best, you know?
My deck plans to have at least Cardinal and Priscus, so using BO and
IG would be much more logical here ("make the rich one more rich"). I
will think about it.
Considering the allies possibility: it depends on the action, right?
If you're trying to push Dogs of War that allows ALL your vampires to
rush ANY other and diablerize freely, you aren't likely to make other
players support you, unless you split the table. But Trumpet-Up
Charges isn't that global: you just want to kill one vampire. Your
grandpredator should be happy if you select a vampire of his prey. A
rush player may be happy to have a permanent possibility of cycling
combat cards. And so on.
>
> Its not unique, but you are only playing one of them, so no difference
> there.
But I'm not the only player on the table, and Mr. Winthrop is popular.
> The +1 int is useful, but only if forcing them to play stealth.
I do right that with Bowl of Convergence that I plan to fetch.
> However the prob here is that Obf, Chi and Dem are not the only discs
> that give stealth..... Mr Winthrop is free too. He can be killed,
> true, but at least he cannot be stolen......
I don't believe that somebody would steal Detector if he can steal
Assault Rifle :) As long as I'm going to prefer long range, Mr.
Winthrop would be in a great danger. He may be better for this deck,
but not that much better to consider Detector a "junk".
Yours,
Ector