rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

JYHAD : Vast Wealth Question

12 messages from 7 participants · 12 September 1994 – 20 September 1994 · rec.games.deckmaster
source archive

shawn marier

A question came up over the weekend. A player with 5 blood left played the master card "vast wealth" on a ready minion during her master phase. During her minion phase she took the action to get the first piece of equipment in the deck. She found an Assault Rifle, this has a cost of 5BP. So what happens A: She must pay the 5BP which puts her at 0 BP and out of the game. B: As equiping the gun would kill her she doesn't equip herself. Another related question, same situation but she has 4 BP. A: She only has 4BP so she doesn't equip B: She equipes, and is now at -1BP and out of the game. One more related question: Does the minion have to pay the cost if they don't want the equipment? SPOILER FOLLOWS: Vast Wealth: Master Put this card on a ready minion. The minion can now equip with the first piece of equipment you find in your library working down from the top, as an action, which would be at +1 Stealth. Pay equip cost from blood pool, as normal. Reshuffle the library afterwards. -- Shawn Del Marier marier@zso.dec.com Digital Equipment Corporation ...!decwrl!slugbt.enet!marier DECwest Engineering/Bellevue WA (206) 865-8886

shawn marier

A question came up over the weekend. A player with 5 blood left played the master card "vast wealth" on a ready minion during her master phase. During her minion phase she took the action to get the first piece of equipment in the deck. She found an Assault Rifle, this has a cost of 5BP. So what happens A: She must pay the 5BP which puts her at 0 BP and out of the game. B: As equiping the gun would kill her she doesn't equip herself. Another related question, same situation but she has 4 BP. A: She only has 4BP so she doesn't equip B: She equipes, and is now at -1BP and out of the game. One more related question: Does the minion have to pay the cost if they don't want the equipment? SPOILER FOLLOWS: Vast Wealth: Master Put this card on a ready minion. The minion can now equip with the first piece of equipment you find in your library working down from the top, as an action, which would be at +1 Stealth. Pay equip cost from blood pool, as normal. Reshuffle the library afterwards. -- Shawn Del Marier marier@zso.dec.com Digital Equipment Corporation ...!decwrl!slugbt.enet!marier DECwest Engineering/Bellevue WA (206) 865-8886

Rick Mc Leod

In <3521ir$dlr@usenet.pa.dec.com>, marier@elmo.zso.dec.com (shawn marier) writes: > >A question came up over the weekend. A player with 5 blood left played >the master card "vast wealth" on a ready minion during her master phase. > >During her minion phase she took the action to get the first piece of >equipment in the deck. She found an Assault Rifle, this has a cost of 5BP. > >So what happens > > A: She must pay the 5BP which puts her at 0 BP and out of the game. > B: As equiping the gun would kill her she doesn't equip herself. > >Another related question, same situation but she has 4 BP. > > A: She only has 4BP so she doesn't equip > B: She equipes, and is now at -1BP and out of the game. > Non sequitur. Ousting occurs when the blood pool is empty. >One more related question: > >Does the minion have to pay the cost if they don't want the equipment? > The secret is in the verb: "minion CAN now equip". Strict interpretation via US Gov't contract guidelines would say that it is an optional action, and the weapon would burn if not bought. A good rules lawyer would argue that the option was taken when the library is searched, and that the devil must be paid 'cuz the fiddle has been played. IMHO, playing that the cost must be paid makes for a better game as VW becomes a risk taking card when you pool is =< high cost equipment library. (I like suspense, and I do play with VW, but I have a high % of 0/1 cost equipment.) !-----------------------------------------------------------------------------! Rick Mc Leod - Systems Wizard, Court Jester, Guardian of the Galaxy Environment MDA P/L PO Box 1692 N Sydney NSW 2058 Australia (02) 956-7966 rxm@mda.com.au/NIC:RM25/There can be only one...fortunately.

Rick Mc Leod

In <3521ir$dlr@usenet.pa.dec.com>, marier@elmo.zso.dec.com (shawn marier) writes: > >A question came up over the weekend. A player with 5 blood left played >the master card "vast wealth" on a ready minion during her master phase. > >During her minion phase she took the action to get the first piece of >equipment in the deck. She found an Assault Rifle, this has a cost of 5BP. > >So what happens > > A: She must pay the 5BP which puts her at 0 BP and out of the game. > B: As equiping the gun would kill her she doesn't equip herself. > >Another related question, same situation but she has 4 BP. > > A: She only has 4BP so she doesn't equip > B: She equipes, and is now at -1BP and out of the game. > Non sequitur. Ousting occurs when the blood pool is empty. >One more related question: > >Does the minion have to pay the cost if they don't want the equipment? > The secret is in the verb: "minion CAN now equip". Strict interpretation via US Gov't contract guidelines would say that it is an optional action, and the weapon would burn if not bought. A good rules lawyer would argue that the option was taken when the library is searched, and that the devil must be paid 'cuz the fiddle has been played. IMHO, playing that the cost must be paid makes for a better game as VW becomes a risk taking card when you pool is =< high cost equipment library. (I like suspense, and I do play with VW, but I have a high % of 0/1 cost equipment.) !-----------------------------------------------------------------------------! Rick Mc Leod - Systems Wizard, Court Jester, Guardian of the Galaxy Environment MDA P/L PO Box 1692 N Sydney NSW 2058 Australia (02) 956-7966 rxm@mda.com.au/NIC:RM25/There can be only one...fortunately.

Cerebus The Aardvark

marier@elmo.zso.dec.com (shawn marier) writes: >SPOILER FOLLOWS: >Vast Wealth: Master > Put this card on a ready minion. The minion can now equip with the > first piece of equipment you find in your library working down from > the top, as an action, which would be at +1 Stealth. Pay equip cost > from blood pool, as normal. Reshuffle the library afterwards. The card doesn't say "must equip" it says "can equip" Logically the minion doesn't HAVE to equip. Keeping this in mind, I'm sure the "official" ruling will once again defy the laws of logic and common sense. The more I read the "official" rule postings, the more sure I am that I will never play in any "official" Jyhad tourneys. 1. You get the edge for bleeding ANY Meth. 2. Vampires can only have 1 title at a time, no Prince of Seattle, Justicars. 3. Warm-ups occur in two player games. etc etc... No thanks. -- | kreme@netcom.com \ 1015 South Gaylord, Denver, CO 80209 #100 | | PGP Fingerprint \ 1D 5E F7 C8 7E C2 F9 87 0F 86 C9 B0 D2 63 9C B2 | | [303/722-2009] Vox \ Bad Bad Bad Bad Bad Bad Bad Bad Bad Bad Bad!! | | [303/777-2911] Data \ - Malorey Knox - |

Cerebus The Aardvark

marier@elmo.zso.dec.com (shawn marier) writes: >SPOILER FOLLOWS: >Vast Wealth: Master > Put this card on a ready minion. The minion can now equip with the > first piece of equipment you find in your library working down from > the top, as an action, which would be at +1 Stealth. Pay equip cost > from blood pool, as normal. Reshuffle the library afterwards. The card doesn't say "must equip" it says "can equip" Logically the minion doesn't HAVE to equip. Keeping this in mind, I'm sure the "official" ruling will once again defy the laws of logic and common sense. The more I read the "official" rule postings, the more sure I am that I will never play in any "official" Jyhad tourneys. 1. You get the edge for bleeding ANY Meth. 2. Vampires can only have 1 title at a time, no Prince of Seattle, Justicars. 3. Warm-ups occur in two player games. etc etc... No thanks. -- | kreme@netcom.com \ 1015 South Gaylord, Denver, CO 80209 #100 | | PGP Fingerprint \ 1D 5E F7 C8 7E C2 F9 87 0F 86 C9 B0 D2 63 9C B2 | | [303/722-2009] Vox \ Bad Bad Bad Bad Bad Bad Bad Bad Bad Bad Bad!! | | [303/777-2911] Data \ - Malorey Knox - |

Owen P Reynolds

>>Vast Wealth: Master >> Put this card on a ready minion. The minion can now equip with the >> first piece of equipment you find in your library working down from >> the top, as an action, which would be at +1 Stealth. Pay equip cost >> from blood pool, as normal. Reshuffle the library afterwards. >The card doesn't say "must equip" it says "can equip" Logically the minion >doesn't HAVE to equip. If it said "must" then the minion would be forced to tap for a piece of equipment every turn. The option given by "can" is that you may, if you want to, tap it to equip with a random item. >The more I read the "official" rule postings, the more sure I am that I >will never play in any "official" Jyhad tourneys. >1. You get the edge for bleeding ANY Meth. What's wrong with this? There is so much incentive not to ever weaken a player besides your target that this little bonus doesn't hurt anything. I can even see them clapping and saying, "oh, nicely done" after you blow up your predator's secret docking base. >2. Vampires can only have 1 title at a time, no Prince of Seattle, > Justicars. This is mostly true. A Prince/Justicar is kind of like a Bishop/ Duke. It just isn't done, and trying to do both gets you in more trouble than it buys you clout. Likewise a member of the Primogen who was a Justicar would be a bad idea. A Primogen member/Prince is similar to a President/Congressman. You need to give up the latter office to have the former. That just leaves being the Prince of two cities. Possible, but that's also fairly unheard of and both cities would be more than capable of fielding challengers who would spend all their time on that one city. Princes work _hard_ because the recognition it brings them and their clan is very important to them. It's not an honorary position. >3. Warm-ups occur in two player games. Are you an expert at paper/rock/siscors, always going first and enjoying the fact that it's a big advantage? With a warm-up in a two-player game, it matters less whether you go first or second. It's a good rule. > etc etc... No thanks. Some of the etcs are bad, like the Wolf Companion ruling. The problem is WotC wants to stick with their "play as written" rule with cards that weren't proofread with a copy of the final rules draft in hand. --

Owen P Reynolds

>>Vast Wealth: Master >> Put this card on a ready minion. The minion can now equip with the >> first piece of equipment you find in your library working down from >> the top, as an action, which would be at +1 Stealth. Pay equip cost >> from blood pool, as normal. Reshuffle the library afterwards. >The card doesn't say "must equip" it says "can equip" Logically the minion >doesn't HAVE to equip. If it said "must" then the minion would be forced to tap for a piece of equipment every turn. The option given by "can" is that you may, if you want to, tap it to equip with a random item. >The more I read the "official" rule postings, the more sure I am that I >will never play in any "official" Jyhad tourneys. >1. You get the edge for bleeding ANY Meth. What's wrong with this? There is so much incentive not to ever weaken a player besides your target that this little bonus doesn't hurt anything. I can even see them clapping and saying, "oh, nicely done" after you blow up your predator's secret docking base. >2. Vampires can only have 1 title at a time, no Prince of Seattle, > Justicars. This is mostly true. A Prince/Justicar is kind of like a Bishop/ Duke. It just isn't done, and trying to do both gets you in more trouble than it buys you clout. Likewise a member of the Primogen who was a Justicar would be a bad idea. A Primogen member/Prince is similar to a President/Congressman. You need to give up the latter office to have the former. That just leaves being the Prince of two cities. Possible, but that's also fairly unheard of and both cities would be more than capable of fielding challengers who would spend all their time on that one city. Princes work _hard_ because the recognition it brings them and their clan is very important to them. It's not an honorary position. >3. Warm-ups occur in two player games. Are you an expert at paper/rock/siscors, always going first and enjoying the fact that it's a big advantage? With a warm-up in a two-player game, it matters less whether you go first or second. It's a good rule. > etc etc... No thanks. Some of the etcs are bad, like the Wolf Companion ruling. The problem is WotC wants to stick with their "play as written" rule with cards that weren't proofread with a copy of the final rules draft in hand. --

Tom Wylie

Owen P Reynolds <owen@iastate.edu> wrote: >>>Vast Wealth: Master >>> Put this card on a ready minion. The minion can now equip with the >>> first piece of equipment you find in your library working down from >>> the top, as an action, which would be at +1 Stealth. Pay equip cost >>> from blood pool, as normal. Reshuffle the library afterwards. >>The card doesn't say "must equip" it says "can equip" Logically the minion >>doesn't HAVE to equip. You're parsing it incorrectly. The "can" is letting you know that taking the action is optional. If you do take the action, you are required to equip the vampire with whichever piece of equipment you pull out, however. Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

Tom Wylie

Owen P Reynolds <owen@iastate.edu> wrote: >>>Vast Wealth: Master >>> Put this card on a ready minion. The minion can now equip with the >>> first piece of equipment you find in your library working down from >>> the top, as an action, which would be at +1 Stealth. Pay equip cost >>> from blood pool, as normal. Reshuffle the library afterwards. >>The card doesn't say "must equip" it says "can equip" Logically the minion >>doesn't HAVE to equip. You're parsing it incorrectly. The "can" is letting you know that taking the action is optional. If you do take the action, you are required to equip the vampire with whichever piece of equipment you pull out, however. Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

Peter S. CLARK

The way the current tournaments are being played, unless you have the moxes/lotus combos and/or blue permission/time cards you do not win. Ante would not prevent this from happening, but it would make it a potentially expensive if you did not win and anted one of your nice out-of-print cards. i realize that it is difficult to ban cards once printed, but we all make mistakes. There is in every tournament an unfair advantage in favor of players with these discontinued cards. Players who came after that time are at an express disadvantage if they do not have the money to buy these rare cards. I submit that ANYONE who is in favor of either allowing all the out-of-print restricted cards into tournaments or thinks ante in tournaments is a bad idea because they *might* lose a good card cares more about winning than the GOOD of the GAME. This is coming from someone who has all the restricted/OOP cards. BAN ALL OUT OF PRINT RESTRICTED CARDS FROM TOURNAMENT PLAY OR DEMAND ANTE BE GIVEN - LIKE THE GAME DESIGNERS INTENDED!!!!!!!! Peter Clark MD Univ. of California-Irvine psclark@uci.edu

Dirk W. Tebben

In article <35n86o$92e@news.service.uci.edu>, Peter S. CLARK <psclark@e4e.oac.uci.edu> wrote: > > >The way the current tournaments are being played, unless you have the >moxes/lotus combos and/or blue permission/time cards you do not win. Yes, _some_ tournaments are set up this way. However, what many people seem to overlook is that there are other approaches -- sealed deck, limited composition, and ante, to name a few -- that are quickly gaining popularity over "open" tournaments that use only the DC rules. Someone who is a relative newcomer to the game might not be able to beat a deck that's 50% restricted cards, but they have just as good a chance as the $2000 player at winning a sealed deck tournament. There's no reason that both kinds of competition can't exist. -- Braingeyser + Nicol Bolas (the 30-card Legends Millstone!) Stasis + Obelisk of Undoing (opponent does not untap) Lord of the Pit + 4 Nether Shadows (aka the Recycling Plant) Aladdin + Ashnod's Transmogrant + Argivian Archaeologist (think about it...)