Just a few questions:
Well, first a request for (maybe) an email response; I've been away from
the group long enough to miss the new fast-effect timing rules, so if anyone
has a copy (Tom?) could you please send it to me? Thanks (Great, now I'll get
80,000 copies of it...)
OK, 2 related questions first.
(1) INTERRUPTS:
Can you play 2 interrupts in such a way that one doesn't interrupt the
other but also so that your opponent has no time to fast-effect respond
between? I want the answer to be yes (Chaoslace + BEB or the other way round)
because it just seems like you should be able to...
(2) Fast effects:
Can I stack multiple fast effects on top of each other in the same stack?
i.e. does it have to be strict alternation, or can I actually play 2 effects
in a row on a stack? Or, if in a stack of fast effects my opponent declines
to stack one of his own, can I then add more to the end of the stack?
Here's what I was thinking (sorta -- made it longer to be very pointed)
Opponent wants to Control Magic my creature.
I swords to plowshare it. (does this do power or toughness? DOn't remember)
(he says "OK")
(if StP goes by toughness) (if it goes by power)
I cast Howl from Beyond I pump Holy Armor
I cast Transmutation I cast Transmutation
(both of these to get more life out of the StP)
If I can stack effects, these will work, if not, they won't, right?
(3) In an unrelated question, once an artifact is animated, can it use non-
tapping special abilities while tapped, or is that part of the artifact rules
still in effect; Specifically, if I want to use an Animated Jade Monolith
(OK, so I'd never do that) during damage-dealing while attacking with it,
is that legal (ala Master of the Hunt -- you attack with 6 creatures, I only have
3 wolves? Not any more...!)
(4)
Another unrelated question: Cocoon says "Put 3 counters on cocoon when cast".
If I enchantment alter Cocoon with 3 counters on it to my opponent's Wall of
Swords, (a) it becomes tapped (the wall :), and (b) I "put 3 counters on
cocoon". Following the wording carefully, I end up with a super Venarian
Gold spell that can be transferred around and will only build up more counters
as it goes along. Does the card mean I should "Make sure there are exactly
3 counters on Cocoon" when I EA it? I understand the ambiguity -- usually
spells only get cast once! -- but am just curious what the ruling would be,
since I think Cocoon is a fun but hard-to-use spell.
OK, here's a Jyhad question for you!
(5) CONDITIONING/BONDING/THREATS
If I am bleeding someone, and wish to play Conditioning, it is clear that I
may not play bonding or threats in addition due to the wording on all 3 cards.
It is also indirectly illegal for me to play another Conditioning because
a minion may only use 1 of each act. mod. each action. However, if I play
Mask of 1,000 Faces, now the new acting minion hasn't played Conditioning
on the action (technically) and the wording on the card sounds like it's saying
[only 1 type of card from (Conditioning, Bonding, Threats) may be played in
an action], possibly (tho I assume you _mean_ no more than 1 total card from
any of the 3 types).
Additionally, if I Legally Manipulate someone with Lucia Pacciola, and play
Conditioning with it, then Mask of 1,000 Faces it over to Ozmo ('cuz he's got
nasty Pulse of the Canaille or retainers or whatever in addition to his +1
Bleed), does the blood still come off Lucia? I _did_ the other things while
it still looked like Lucia was doing it, but it was actually Ozmo "the whole
time", so it seems like you could say the blood actually comes off Ozmo.
On a similar note, what happens if you play Conditioning on an action that
gets blocked after you play the Conditioning? If you legally manipulate, the
blood for the _action_ never gets spent, but how 'bout the action modifiers?
The action never happened, so how could it be modified by conditioning? The card
would still be burnt, just as the Govern the Unaligned/Legal Manipulations
get burnt with no effect, but does your minion recoup the blood he unsuccessfully
tried to spend?
Well, that's all my feeble mind can fail to understand for the day (or can
remember that it had failed to understand in the recently preceding days) so
I guess I'm off...
Take care, all.
-Evan (Evan Gridley, ejg1@cornell.edu)
Evan Gridley <ejg1@cornell.edu> wrote:
> Well, first a request for (maybe) an email response; I've been away from
>the group long enough to miss the new fast-effect timing rules, so if anyone
>has a copy (Tom?) could you please send it to me?...
There are no new fast-effect timing rules. There are possible/probable
changes which have been posted prematurely, but no actual changes.
>(1) INTERRUPTS:
> Can you play 2 interrupts in such a way that one doesn't interrupt the
>other but also so that your opponent has no time to fast-effect respond
>between? I want the answer to be yes (Chaoslace + BEB or the other way round)
>because it just seems like you should be able to...
If you're interrupting someone else's effect, they will always get the
chance to put off your interrupt long enough to interrupt their
effect "first". If you want to hose your own effect this way, then you're
set, unless someone specifically trips up the -lace or Blast.
>(2) Fast effects:
> Can I stack multiple fast effects on top of each other in the same stack?
Sure.
>if in a stack of fast effects my opponent declines
>to stack one of his own, can I then add more to the end of the stack?
Sure.
> Opponent wants to Control Magic my creature.
> I swords to plowshare it...
> I pump Holy Armor
> I cast Transmutation
>(both of these to get more life out of the StP)
This works just fine.
>(3) In an unrelated question, once an artifact is animated, can it use non-
>tapping special abilities while tapped, or is that part of the artifact rules
>still in effect...
The fact that it's a creature allows it to be used.
>(4)
>Another unrelated question: Cocoon says "Put 3 counters on cocoon when cast".
>If I enchantment alter Cocoon with 3 counters on it to my opponent's Wall of
>Swords, (a) it becomes tapped (the wall :), and (b) I "put 3 counters on
>cocoon". Following the wording carefully, I end up with a super Venarian
>Gold spell that can be transferred around and will only build up more counters
>as it goes along...
You do indeed pile another 3 counters on the Cocoon when it moves. However,
since the counters are put on the Cocoon rather than the target creature
(this might be errata), you can't keep multiple things locked down via
this method.
> OK, here's a Jyhad question for you!
Gasp! :)
>(5) CONDITIONING/BONDING/THREATS
> If I am bleeding someone, and wish to play Conditioning, it is clear that I
>may not play bonding or threats in addition due to the wording on all 3 cards.
>It is also indirectly illegal for me to play another Conditioning because
>a minion may only use 1 of each act. mod. each action. However, if I play
>Mask of 1,000 Faces, now the new acting minion hasn't played Conditioning
>on the action (technically)...
Looks like you can use the Mask to double up one of the added-bleed cards,
yes. You still won't be able to use more than 1 of the set, though.
I will confirm this.
> Additionally, if I Legally Manipulate someone with Lucia Pacciola, and play
>Conditioning with it, then Mask of 1,000 Faces it over to Ozmo ('cuz he's got
>nasty Pulse of the Canaille or retainers or whatever in addition to his +1
>Bleed), does the blood still come off Lucia?...
The cost would be paid by Lucia, since she is the one who actually
played the card, even though Ozmo took over.
> On a similar note, what happens if you play Conditioning on an action that
>gets blocked after you play the Conditioning? If you legally manipulate, the
>blood for the _action_ never gets spent, but how 'bout the action modifiers?
Paying the cost for an action modifier follows the same rules as
paying the cost for the action itself.
Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for
aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
In article <38ien7$s6b@perv.hal.com), Tom Wylie <aahz@hal.COM) wrote:
)Evan Gridley <ejg1@cornell.edu) wrote:
))If I enchantment alter Cocoon with 3 counters on it to my opponent's Wall of
))Swords, (a) it becomes tapped (the wall :), and (b) I "put 3 counters on
))cocoon".
)You do indeed pile another 3 counters on the Cocoon when it moves. However,
)since the counters are put on the Cocoon rather than the target creature
)(this might be errata), you can't keep multiple things locked down via
)this method.
Additionally, Tom, what Evan proposes above won't work, since Cocoon
states 'tap target creature *you control*' (card text). I suppose in the
obscure case of controlling/preachering someone else's creature, Cocooning
it, and relinquishing control, it'd work, but only then.
heckler
y'know, i've been thinking it's time for a card that allows you to force an
opponent to take control of one of your permanents. call it 'repulse.'
i can think of hundreds of uses.
--
"Is creatve [sic] thinking some sort of godsend that we should all bow down
and worship? I myself am of the duty that creative thinkers have a social
obligation to think creative thoughts and that since it is their duty, it
is extremely selfish and self-centered of them to demand 'credit'." - j_garon
aahz@hal.COM (Tom Wylie) writes:
>> On a similar note, what happens if you play Conditioning on an action that
>>gets blocked after you play the Conditioning? If you legally manipulate, the
>>blood for the _action_ never gets spent, but how 'bout the action modifiers?>Paying the cost for an action modifier follows the same rules as
>paying the cost for the action itself.
So you play a card that increases your stealth at a cost of 1, but the action
gets blocked by your prey who plays an intercept increasing card which
costs 1; you get your one back, but your prey does not???
Odd.
L. Scott Johnson
L. Scott Johnson <sjohnson@math.scarolina.edu> wrote:
>>Paying the cost for an action modifier follows the same rules as
>>paying the cost for the action itself.>So you play a card that increases your stealth at a cost of 1, but the action
>gets blocked by your prey who plays an intercept increasing card which
>costs 1; you get your one back, but your prey does not???
Hm. Checked on this, and it seems I was either misremembering the rules,
or had a brain lapse, or something. Probable ruling is that costs on action
modifiers are always paid, even though any cost of the action itself is
only paid if the action is successful. This will be sent to the design
team for verification.
Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for
aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.