A vamp of many Thoughts?

When entering a combat, can I play multiple Thoughts Betrayed at once?

Yeah. But why would you want to? <mi...@avana.net> wrote in message news:3728da3a...@news.avana.net... [ quoted text not captured ]

On Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:19:50 GMT, mi...@avana.net wrote: >When entering a combat, can I play multiple Thoughts Betrayed at once? Mike, I don't want to KNOW what you're trying to come up with. This scares me. -- Derek (replying by email? remove the nospam from my domain :)

Vince Johnson wrote in message <7gb2mg$r27$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>... >Yeah. But why would you want to? The often ignored minor ability on Thoughts does damage to your opponent. Somebody blocks the Ventrue vote deck, you pitch dawn op and thoughts at minor, you do ag to your opponent that (if I'm right in thinking this) can't be dodged. Undodgable ag is cool, particularly in a pansy assed ventrue vote/bleed deck. <grin> In case anyone else is wondering, my first and only love was Ventrue. I just play Ravnos to piss people off...

On Fri, 30 Apr 1999 02:33:49 -0400, "Robert C Campbell Jr" <bj...@mindspring.com> wrote: > >Vince Johnson wrote in message <7gb2mg$r27$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>... >>Yeah. But why would you want to? > >The often ignored minor ability on Thoughts does damage to your opponent. >Somebody blocks the Ventrue vote deck, you pitch dawn op and thoughts at >minor, you do ag to your opponent that (if I'm right in thinking this) can't >be dodged. And that is exactly why I want to use multiple thoughts. Two or three ag, plus fortitude to prevent received damage. I'm thinking Roxanne here, because she has DO/FO/AU and rush actions vs. weenies. And, thoughts has the added bonus of hosing tasty combat, because you can't taste blood that gets spent on the Thoughts. So if I know my vamp is going to get torched, I can drop the Thoughts so the other vamp doesn't fill up at my expense. ELDB is showing 12 titled Camarilla vamps with at least DO/fo, most of them have FO and 7 have PR. So: Legal manip/6th/5th/4th/MinionTap/Thoughts/DawnOp/Deflection. Maybe InfoHwy/Tomb for speed, and some Kiss of Ra if I really don't want a fight. Island of Yiaros for giggles, and a few guns/flak jackets. When we start playing with 120 card decks, 6 transfers/turn, and 40 pool, this one might be viable. :)

In article <37295598...@news.avana.net>, mi...@avana.net wrote: > On Fri, 30 Apr 1999 02:33:49 -0400, "Robert C Campbell Jr" > <bj...@mindspring.com> wrote: > > > >Vince Johnson wrote in message <7gb2mg$r27$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>... > >>Yeah. But why would you want to? > > > >The often ignored minor ability on Thoughts does damage to your opponent. > >Somebody blocks the Ventrue vote deck, you pitch dawn op and thoughts at > >minor, you do ag to your opponent that (if I'm right in thinking this) can't > >be dodged. > > And that is exactly why I want to use multiple thoughts. Two or three > ag, plus fortitude to prevent received damage. I'm thinking Roxanne > here, because she has DO/FO/AU and rush actions vs. weenies. Hm, TB is very expensive. Multiple copies and you are dry. Why not using Tremere with an Ankara Citadel? Muaziz would be a good choice, she has for and dom, as well as Ulugh Beg and Cardano (which would be the best one). Carl -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

Robert C Campbell Jr <bj...@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:7gbiil$6ds$1...@nntp1.atl.mindspring.net... > > Vince Johnson wrote in message <7gb2mg$r27$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>... > >Yeah. But why would you want to? > > The often ignored minor ability on Thoughts does damage to your opponent. > Somebody blocks the Ventrue vote deck, you pitch dawn op and thoughts at > minor, you do ag to your opponent that (if I'm right in thinking this) can't > be dodged. > > Undodgable ag is cool, particularly in a pansy assed ventrue vote/bleed > deck. <grin> > > In case anyone else is wondering, my first and only love was Ventrue. I just > play Ravnos to piss people off... > > ::Looks Shocked:: Thoughts Betrayed HAS AN INFERIOR Ability?.... hehe... it's something I'd never considered especially since 2 blood is a lot for such minor of an ability (1 damage) But I suppose with the possibility Agg it's not so bad. Vince

<mi...@avana.net> wrote in message news:37295598...@news.avana.net... > On Fri, 30 Apr 1999 02:33:49 -0400, "Robert C Campbell Jr" > <bj...@mindspring.com> wrote: > > > >Vince Johnson wrote in message <7gb2mg$r27$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>... > >>Yeah. But why would you want to? > > > >The often ignored minor ability on Thoughts does damage to your opponent. > >Somebody blocks the Ventrue vote deck, you pitch dawn op and thoughts at > >minor, you do ag to your opponent that (if I'm right in thinking this) can't > >be dodged. > > And that is exactly why I want to use multiple thoughts. Two or three > ag, plus fortitude to prevent received damage. I'm thinking Roxanne > here, because she has DO/FO/AU and rush actions vs. weenies. Yes you can drop multiples but is it really worth it. 8 blood and 4 cards later you've only done 4 non agg with Rox. 1 more card does the aggravated but you have needed that to begin with. Certainly you'll probably burn her opponent but at a cost of many vamps for only a little weenie. You need to figure out a way to do additional damage too if you planned on burning opponents' bigger vamps, then you have to figure that you could have done it all in the first place as Agg and the weight on TB is lessened. This leans back to the normal use for TB as anti-strike/s:ce/dodge card, with the bonus of fewer required TB's. This is why I think Drawing out the beast is a better card for the type of deck you're thinking of since it costs the vamp using them nothing, just the multiples on cards which isn't as bad as blood when you consider a 5 cap can reasonably pull it off. Certainly you could pull off your idea with a smaller vampire, but as you get smaller wtih the vampire the less damage you could pull together because of their limitation on blood to spend on TBs. Vince

carl_pi...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message <7gc1p7$ee3$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... >In article <37295598...@news.avana.net>, > mi...@avana.net wrote: >> On Fri, 30 Apr 1999 02:33:49 -0400, "Robert C Campbell Jr" >> <bj...@mindspring.com> wrote: >> > >> >Vince Johnson wrote in message <7gb2mg$r27$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>... >> >>Yeah. But why would you want to? >> > >> >The often ignored minor ability on Thoughts does damage to your opponent. >> >Somebody blocks the Ventrue vote deck, you pitch dawn op and thoughts at >> >minor, you do ag to your opponent that (if I'm right in thinking this) can't >> >be dodged. >> >> And that is exactly why I want to use multiple thoughts. Two or three >> ag, plus fortitude to prevent received damage. I'm thinking Roxanne >> here, because she has DO/FO/AU and rush actions vs. weenies. > >Hm, TB is very expensive. Multiple copies and you are dry. Why not using >Tremere with an Ankara Citadel? Muaziz would be a good choice, she has for >and dom, as well as Ulugh Beg and Cardano (which would be the best one). Am I missing something here? Why not use Gangrel and drawing out the beast? That way, your whole vamp draw can do the trick and at no cost. Fortitude protects the added hand damage or protean avoids it. If you're just going to rush, why bother with the 2 blood cost for thoughts?

Robert C Campbell Jr wrote in message <7gctk1$a1b$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>... >Am I missing something here? Why not use Gangrel and drawing out the beast? >That way, your whole vamp draw can do the trick and at no cost. Fortitude >protects the added hand damage or protean avoids it. If you're just going to >rush, why bother with the 2 blood cost for thoughts? > Superior DotB: At the end of the round, damage is taken. Perhaps this means the modification by Dawn Op ends before this damage is taken? Anyway,I like the Tremere with fortitude version best: Blocked action, Dawn Op, Weather Control, Skin of Night, Amaranth (preferably with Muaziz) ;-) Happens about once per thirteen games, if you include five of each card in a deck.

In article <7gd01q$iov$1...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>, Richard Zopf <ze...@mindspring.com> wrote: > >Robert C Campbell Jr wrote in message ><7gctk1$a1b$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>... >>Am I missing something here? Why not use Gangrel and drawing out the beast? >>That way, your whole vamp draw can do the trick and at no cost. Fortitude >>protects the added hand damage or protean avoids it. If you're just going >to >>rush, why bother with the 2 blood cost for thoughts? >> >Superior DotB: At the end of the round, damage is taken. Perhaps this means >the modification by Dawn Op ends before this damage is taken? Errr, is this true? I was under the impression that you could Dawn Op/ DotB. I made a deck that relied upon this combo, along with Form of Mist, some bleed to make people want to block, and Grave Robbing. Rather slow, but mean when it gets working. Big time trouble against a voting predator. -- /\ Jasper Phillips /VVVVVVVVVVVVVV|~"~"~"~"~"~"----------........____ jaz j^^^^^^^^^^^^^\/"~"~"~"~-----------........._____ ~"~--. * http://www.engr.orst.edu/~philljas/ "~"~'--`

Richard Zopf wrote: > Superior DotB: At the end of the round, damage is taken. Perhaps this means > the modification by Dawn Op ends before this damage is taken? DotB's damage is done during combat, so it would be made aggravated by Dawn Op. -- LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html

LSJ wrote in message <372A0929...@wizards.com>... >Richard Zopf wrote: >> Superior DotB: At the end of the round, damage is taken. Perhaps this means >> the modification by Dawn Op ends before this damage is taken? > >DotB's damage is done during combat, so it would be made aggravated >by Dawn Op. > Cool. I guess the only impetus for TB over DotB would be discipline overlap, then (referring to the Ventrue vote situation cited earlier in this thread)... Regards, R. David Zopf Atom Weaver (& V:EKN Prince of Charlotte, NC)

On Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:50:56 -0400, "Robert C Campbell Jr" <bj...@mindspring.com> wrote: >>> >The often ignored minor ability on Thoughts does damage to your >opponent. >>> >Somebody blocks the Ventrue vote deck, you pitch dawn op and thoughts at >>> >minor, you do ag to your opponent that (if I'm right in thinking this) >can't >>> >be dodged. >>> >>> And that is exactly why I want to use multiple thoughts. Two or three >>> ag, plus fortitude to prevent received damage. I'm thinking Roxanne >>> here, because she has DO/FO/AU and rush actions vs. weenies. >> >>Hm, TB is very expensive. Multiple copies and you are dry. Why not using >>Tremere with an Ankara Citadel? Muaziz would be a good choice, she has for >>and dom, as well as Ulugh Beg and Cardano (which would be the best one). > >Am I missing something here? Why not use Gangrel and drawing out the beast? >That way, your whole vamp draw can do the trick and at no cost. Fortitude >protects the added hand damage or protean avoids it. If you're just going to >rush, why bother with the 2 blood cost for thoughts? because nobody will bother to block your Gangrel after the first trick, so you can't play dawn op on the combat. HOWEVER, Dominate comes with lots of actions at zero stealth that people will want to block - the good old "bleed for 6", Grave Robbing, Far Mastery, location theft.... =) [ quoted text not captured ]

Jasper Phillips wrote in message <7gd1lj$hlc$1...@news.NERO.NET>... >In article <7gd01q$iov$1...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>, >Richard Zopf <ze...@mindspring.com> wrote: >> >>Robert C Campbell Jr wrote in message >><7gctk1$a1b$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>... >>>Am I missing something here? Why not use Gangrel and drawing out the beast? >>>That way, your whole vamp draw can do the trick and at no cost. Fortitude >>>protects the added hand damage or protean avoids it. If you're just going >>to >>>rush, why bother with the 2 blood cost for thoughts? >>> >>Superior DotB: At the end of the round, damage is taken. Perhaps this means >>the modification by Dawn Op ends before this damage is taken? > >Errr, is this true? I was under the impression that you could Dawn Op/ >DotB. I made a deck that relied upon this combo, along with Form of >Mist, some bleed to make people want to block, and Grave Robbing. >Rather slow, but mean when it gets working. Big time trouble against >a voting predator. I've been wondering about this combo. Can you earth meld during a dotb/dawn op and still make your opponent take damage?

Robert C Campbell Jr <bj...@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:7gf9uq$bdv$1...@nntp6.atl.mindspring.net... [ quoted text not captured ] I believe it's been ruled that the DotB deals it's damage at the end of the round whenever that may be, even if it's the end resulting from a s:ce on either side. Vince

> >> I've been wondering about this combo. Can you earth meld during a > dotb/dawn op and still make your opponent take damage?<< > > I believe it's been ruled that the DotB deals it's damage at the end of the > round whenever that may be, even if it's the end resulting from a s:ce on > either side. What about a Ventrue using Dawn Op/Catatonic Fear? p.

>I've been wondering about this combo. Can you earth meld during a dotb/dawn >op and still make your opponent take damage? Yep, I think so. . DOtB does its stuff at the end of a round, which occurs after strikes, like S:CE stuff. So if you decide that it is truly "Time to be bad," you DotB, Aid from Bats, use the press, and Riposte, for those vamps with AN/ce(CE). It doesn't work with Dawn Op, but it's more gratifying :).

Patrick Harris <alp...@alpinetaxi.com> wrote: > > >> I've been wondering about this combo. Can you earth meld during a > > dotb/dawn op and still make your opponent take damage?<< > > > > I believe it's been ruled that the DotB deals it's damage at the end of the > > round whenever that may be, even if it's the end resulting from a s:ce on > > either side. Correct, as appears elsewhere in this thread. > What about a Ventrue using Dawn Op/Catatonic Fear? Nope. CataFear's damage is done after combat ends. -- LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <372B4159...@alpinetaxi.com>, Patrick Harris <alp...@alpinetaxi.com> writes > >What about a Ventrue using Dawn Op/Catatonic Fear? The Catatonic Fear damage resolves outside of combat. If Dawn Op only affects the combat (and not the entire action), it won't affect it. -- James Coupe (Prince of Mercia, England) Vampire: Elder Kindred Network http://madnessnetwork.hexagon.net http://www.obeah.demon.co.uk

Vince Johnson heeft geschreven in bericht <7gb2mg$r27$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>... >Yeah. But why would you want to? > I guess nobody thought of simple direct intervention that counters your thoughts betrayed. If this is done by a combat deck (eg tremere vs tremere) you could be in serious trouble because your oponent can now play it and make an easy kill. ><mi...@avana.net> wrote in message news:3728da3a...@news.avana.net... [ quoted text not captured ]

> I guess nobody thought of simple direct intervention that counters your > thoughts betrayed. If this is done by a combat deck (eg tremere vs > tremere) you could be in serious trouble because your oponent can now play > it and make an easy kill. Direct intervention is always a threat on combat decks, but luckily combat decks can follow up with another lock card (another IG or another TB). Also, both players can play TB's, they only prevent strikes. Vince

I play the Ventrue version of this deck in my play group. With Muaziz I might add. The Ventrue deck tends to work better becauseit gets blocked more often, and you can Elder Kindred Network any votes you don't like. My original version had amaranths and pulled fangs as well, but then we found out (or the rules changed) that you couldn't elder kindred network a bloodhunt. Iv'e been trying to get Archon votes into it, but that discourages blocking to much in the end, and I don't have room for a lot of vote cards. Still, get an edge in titled vampires, and maybe the Ventru HQ, and the Amaranth is still viable. SEEYA FLAMEBAIT

[ quoted text not captured ] And Direct Intervention is EXPENSIVE (1 pool + your next Master phase action is pretty vicious) to be throwing around lots. Maybe you lose one combat, but you'll win in the end. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <7gkm43$uf7$1...@news0.skynet.be>, Stefan <stefan.m...@skynet.be> writes >I guess nobody thought of simple direct intervention that counters your >thoughts betrayed. They did. > If this is done by a combat deck (eg tremere vs >tremere) you could be in serious trouble because your oponent can now play >it and make an easy kill. However, there are a lot of other ways to get them in trouble, in the sense of stuff their deck up good and proper. Damage Prevention, Potence Combat (who cares about strikes with Torns, Fists, etc.), Additional Strikes, Maneuevers (strikes at wrong range) and so forth. These are all better against combat than Direct Intervention, and don't cost you a pool. Now, don't get me wrong, I think DI is a good card. It helps you defend against many strategies at once, whilst not providing all *that* good defence, since they probably have multiples or can just write off this action and go again. It's just that, if you *know* exactly what you need to get round, there's always a better, cheaper and more effective way to do it with a specific card, I find. [ quoted text not captured ]