So, which cards do you love/hate so far?
Ma favourites:
Carver's Meat Packing and Storage - great for weenie-bashing
Elysium: Sforzesco Castle - saves a qouple of wakes for walls
Recalled to the founder - can mess up some decks really bad!
Fall of the Camarilla/Sabbat - huge effect/high oppurtunity cost
Dragonbound - goodies for combat decks are always nice
Mylan Horseed (Goblin) - Will go in very many of my decks. Fatties without
fortitude need all the help they can get!
Perfectionist - probably the only of the new archetypes I'll play with.
Sleep of Reason - Lot's of new cards make it harder for vampires to keep
their blood, making them targets for this. Try with Hazamiel, Free states
rant and a few freak drives!
The Unmasking - will be great in any ally deck. Shambling horde, weenie
brujah allies, war ghouls. For total madness, combine with Absimiliards
army. (we had that combo in play yesterday, noone could do anything)
Starvation of Marena - good solid card
(Mc) Flurry Of Action
Also more actions for none-fortitude... great!
The Erciyes Fragments - not gehenna but almost... This card is super!
Perfect for taking usefull stuff like blood dolls or wakes.
The bad ones:
Jacob, The Glitch - this vampire would be great if only I could find a way
of forcing him on my prey... =) Will only play if I really want to empty my
library for some reason...
Conniver - really should be trifle... Only way I'm seeing that it could be
used is if grand prey is a voter, but how can you assure that? Will never
play this!
Sleep Unseen - Cost one blood, after a succesfull action making you almost
immune to rush for one round? That crap!
Muhandis - This guy is seriously underpowered compared to some other guys.
He didn't need that drawback.
Thought?
/henrik isaksson
sleep unseen is one of the underrated cards in this set.
stunt cycle is probably the best card in this set and gives weenie pot a
huge boost!
i don´t think perfectionist is such a good card ( i think all the
archetypes are to cornercase to warrant a master card slot, if htey were
trifle....)
about the falls, if you ever manage to play it, it will be in that game
were the only voter is a baron indie deck and there are no prince decks
at your table)
Elysium: Sforzesco Castle: to cornercase to save even one wake and it is
a master card (master slots in a deck are rare)
stefan
"Stefan Ferenci" <a950n...@unet.s.p.a.m.univie.ac.at> wrote in message
news:40b0e6e0$0$29350$3b21...@usenet.univie.ac.at...
> sleep unseen is one of the underrated cards in this set.> stunt cycle is probably the best card in this set and gives weenie pot a
> huge boost!
You really think it's that much better than the lid? Celerity isn't that
uncommon! Pretty boring to have a hand stunt cycles when you finally get in
combat with arika or lucian...
> i don´t think perfectionist is such a good card ( i think all the
> archetypes are to cornercase to warrant a master card slot, if htey were
> trifle....)
Agree that it's not super, but at least better than the others...
> about the falls, if you ever manage to play it, it will be in that game
> were the only voter is a baron indie deck and there are no prince decks
> at your table)
Yep, I know, and obviously it will be me playing the baron deck! =)
[ quoted text not captured ]
henrik isaksson wrote:
> "Stefan Ferenci" <a950n...@unet.s.p.a.m.univie.ac.at> wrote in message
> news:40b0e6e0$0$29350$3b21...@usenet.univie.ac.at...
>>>sleep unseen is one of the underrated cards in this set.>
>
>>>stunt cycle is probably the best card in this set and gives weenie pot a
>>huge boost!>
>
> You really think it's that much better than the lid? Celerity isn't that
> uncommon! Pretty boring to have a hand stunt cycles when you finally get in
> combat with arika or lucian...
>
the lid i know, doesn´t let me prevent damage (a think pot is not that good)
stefan
> >>stunt cycle is probably the best card in this set and gives weenie pot a
> >>huge boost!
> >
> >
> > You really think it's that much better than the lid? Celerity isn't that
> > uncommon! Pretty boring to have a hand stunt cycles when you finally get
in
> > combat with arika or lucian...
> >
>
> the lid i know, doesn´t let me prevent damage (a think pot is not that
good)
235 vampires (pre gehenna) have cel! =)
/henrik isaksson
>
> so what???????
That's 1/3 of the vampires in the game. I'd never play that card at
inferior over a Sewer Lid. So it's not a good card for weenie potence.
The superior is worth the risk, though.
Stefan Ferenci <a950n...@unet.s.p.a.m.univie.ac.at> wrote in message news:<40b0ed8d$0$18702$3b21...@usenet.univie.ac.at>...
[ quoted text not captured ]
So the opposing minion can burn a blood to prevent all damage from
your nice little flying cycle....
"henrik isaksson" <PLEASEDONTSP...@spray.se> wrote
>
> Conniver - really should be trifle... Only way I'm seeing that it
could be
> used is if grand prey is a voter, but how can you assure that? Will
never
> play this!
This was my first thought also, but then someone pointed out bouncing
bleeds to your prey. Not like that happens very often though, right? :)
My favourite card so far is Perfectionist. That card blows away all
other archetypes IMHO.
Cheers,
WES
Nikolaj Wendt expounded:
>
> So the opposing minion can burn a blood to prevent all damage from
> your nice little flying cycle....
It's not thrown -you drive it over them (well slide it into them -using
it as cover to get your prevention). If I can prevent 2 dmg with pot/CEL
or POT/cel on the first strike and do them one as well then that is
useful even if they have cel -if not then it's even better.
"henrik isaksson" <PLEASEDONTSP...@spray.se> wrote in message news:<2hc62eF...@uni-berlin.de>...
> So, which cards do you love/hate so far?
>
> Ma favourites:
> Carver's Meat Packing and Storage - great for weenie-bashing
Yeah, but probably at it's most effective in weenie-creating decks.
If your weenies get knocked down, make them hostages to feed your
bigger guys. I'm thinking it's a nice blood gain engine for
Embrace/3rd/Creation Rites decks.
> Recalled to the founder - can mess up some decks really bad!
I was sad to see this card printed. I like my clan-based decks!
> Fall of the Camarilla/Sabbat - huge effect/high oppurtunity cost
I've not had these played at a table I've sat at yet, but I imagine
I'll see decks dedicated to getting these in play. That said, I'm
still not sure they really shut down voting decks if they play vote
push. Fattie vote is particularly defended by packing a few Emergency
Preparations and just killing the Fall when they see it coming.
> Dragonbound - goodies for combat decks are always nice
Probably my favorite card in the set.
> Mylan Horseed (Goblin) - Will go in very many of my decks. Fatties without
> fortitude need all the help they can get!
I expect Mylan to the most contested ally yet. Pack the Entrancements
and Far Mastery...
> Perfectionist - probably the only of the new archetypes I'll play with.
Conniver is worth it. Pays for your bounce. Everyone can cash in on
the same bounce too.
> Sleep of Reason - Lot's of new cards make it harder for vampires to keep
> their blood, making them targets for this. Try with Hazamiel, Free states
> rant and a few freak drives!
Yeah, I was also sad to see this one. DEM didn't really need more
toys IMO.
> The Unmasking - will be great in any ally deck. Shambling horde, weenie
> brujah allies, war ghouls. For total madness, combine with Absimiliards
> army. (we had that combo in play yesterday, noone could do anything)
I don't know about this one. Ally block decks? Ally decks still seem
pretty weak to me.
> (Mc) Flurry Of Action
> Also more actions for none-fortitude... great!
Yeah, I was hoping for a CEL-based Freak Drive, but this is close
enough for me.
> The Erciyes Fragments - not gehenna but almost... This card is super!
> Perfect for taking usefull stuff like blood dolls or wakes.
Another of the cards I expect to see heavily contested in the coming
months. The card is almost too good...
> The bad ones:
>
> Jacob, The Glitch - this vampire would be great if only I could find a way
> of forcing him on my prey... =) Will only play if I really want to empty my
> library for some reason...
I agree. His flaw is just too much IMO.
> Conniver - really should be trifle... Only way I'm seeing that it could be
> used is if grand prey is a voter, but how can you assure that? Will never
> play this!
Um... no. This card screams "BOUNCE". That all of your Connivers can
cash in on the same action is also really good.
> Sleep Unseen - Cost one blood, after a succesfull action making you almost
> immune to rush for one round? That crap!
This is a really strong defense though, "no D actions" beats much more
than simply rush decks. I think OBF/DEM will use this card the most
because they didn't really have a means of combat defense before.
Also note that the card is freely cyclable on your actions as opposed
to Majesty/Obedience which could clog your hand if you don't get into
combat.
My additional good/bad list...
Good: Alastor, Leadership Vacuum, Reformation.
Bad: Kaymakli Nightmares, simply because it gives even more firepower
to the Anarch Revolt/Computer Hacking decks.
> /henrik isaksson
Aramis
*still waiting to play with his Gehenna toys...*
niko...@hotmail.com (Nikolaj Wendt) wrote in message news:<22f564b8.04052...@posting.google.com>...
> So the opposing minion can burn a blood to prevent all damage from
> your nice little flying cycle....
We had a lovely traffic accident the other day, someone running away
in their limo (with Jackie Therman) only to crash into a cycle.
The damage prevention is really the crucial part of the card, it
happens regardless of whether they cancel the damage to themselves. If
someone has a Magnum and you play this at inferior then you only take
one damage and they take either one or three. If you had a Sewer lid
then you'd take 2 and they'd take 3 for sure.
With a weenie (Or any kind of combat really) deck there are definitely
times when blood will be tight and you'd rather take one less damage
regardless of how much damage the other person is going to take.
ThunderFoot.
"Wes" <gh...@NYETSPAMmnsi.net> wrote in message news:<c8re6...@enews4.newsguy.com>...
[ quoted text not captured ]
Conniver isn't good? What about weenie Auspex? (I also think
Neighborhood Watch Commander is probably super-good for weenie
Auspex...)
I'm not quite sure I see how Perfectionist is so fantastic. I know
that there are some decks which feature minions that people don't
normally bother trying to block (Hesha comes to mind), but for the
part I think part this card is only going to be good for
rush/combat-heavy decks, and then only when someone doesn't have
a disposable minion to throw in your way (or just a Wake that they
want to cycle without bothering to do anything). Capitalist, on the
other hand, is probably better, as most minions will bleed at some
point in the game. Capitalist also works well in both stealth/bleed and
bruise/bleed decks, as well being better than hunting for a minion
who's only bleeding for one when there are more dangerous minions on
the table (Isabel Giovanni bleeding for one when Andrea and Gillespi
are still untapped, for instance), whereas Perfectionist seems more
suited to a narrower range of deck types. Of course, I have no
personal play data on Perfectionist yet - anybody want to fill me
in as to how well it works in real play? :)
John Eno
Prince of Pittsburgh
Of course, I have no
> personal play data on Perfectionist yet - anybody want to fill me
> in as to how well it works in real play? :)
>
So nicely in Canberra at prerelease that people were suggesting that it is
broken. I think this card will surprise you into realising just how many
actions go without reaction cards being played.
Having said that, I really like Curmudgeon which no-one seems to have
commented on so far. It's a trifle! and again at prerelease, it was
surprising to see the addtional thought of my prey go into acting with a
minion who had been targetted. Cards like this I think work because no-one
sees them as overpowered (not painting a bullseye on your minions is good.)
And did I mention its a trifle?
John
"henrik isaksson" <PLEASEDONTSP...@spray.se> wrote in message news:<2hc62eF...@uni-berlin.de>...
> So, which cards do you love/hate so far?
>
> Ma favourites:
> Carver's Meat Packing and Storage - great for weenie-bashing
>
Fun! Fun! Fun! And cool illustration as well! A use for all those
disciplineless embraces that get blocked during their first hunt
action.
> Elysium: Sforzesco Castle - saves a qouple of wakes for walls
Pretty camn great! There is always a cammie around to block, and they
just can´t get enough of the pain they deserve! :)
>
> Recalled to the founder - can mess up some decks really bad!
Yup... Not good for most descks, but since it hoses everyone but
Caitiff, it´s not that east to use effectively either.
>
> Fall of the Camarilla/Sabbat - huge effect/high oppurtunity cost
>
Much ado for nothing... Sure, they will fall sometimes, but by then
whoever made them fall will have a hand of 3 cards hehe... and it´s
not like you can´t see it coming.
> Dragonbound - goodies for combat decks are always nice
One of my favourites as well. Goes right into my Setite Typhonean
Beast deck.
>
> Mylan Horseed (Goblin) - Will go in very many of my decks. Fatties without
> fortitude need all the help they can get!
>
I LOVE allies! This one will be used a lot!
> Perfectionist - probably the only of the new archetypes I'll play with.
The nicest new Archetyp, but still I like the old ones better hehe..
don´t know why though.
>
> Sleep of Reason - Lot's of new cards make it harder for vampires to keep
> their blood, making them targets for this. Try with Hazamiel, Free states
> rant and a few freak drives!
>
Amazing card! Endgame will be full of vampires without blood.
Dementation is fast becoming one of the most powerfull disciplines.
> The Unmasking - will be great in any ally deck. Shambling horde, weenie
> brujah allies, war ghouls. For total madness, combine with Absimiliards
> army. (we had that combo in play yesterday, noone could do anything)
>
Nice.....
> Starvation of Marena - good solid card
Good combo with Corpse Ballon.
>
> (Mc) Flurry Of Action
> Also more actions for none-fortitude... great!
Nice. Celerity is the dicsipline that changed the most from the old
days...
>
> The Erciyes Fragments - not gehenna but almost... This card is super!
> Perfect for taking usefull stuff like blood dolls or wakes.
>
Coolest i´ve seen it take is a Perfect Clarity to oust a guy with 3
deflections in hand!
> The bad ones:
>
> Jacob, The Glitch - this vampire would be great if only I could find a way
> of forcing him on my prey... =) Will only play if I really want to empty my
> library for some reason...
>
Cool... sure, he´s bad, but cool.. hehe... didn´t see the illustration
on this one yet... some weenies like Jesus make me want to use them
just for the illustration! :)
> Conniver - really should be trifle... Only way I'm seeing that it could be
> used is if grand prey is a voter, but how can you assure that? Will never
> play this!
>
Crappy.. Promotes even more bounce..
> Sleep Unseen - Cost one blood, after a succesfull action making you almost
> immune to rush for one round? That crap!
>
Terrible. Should at least have been free. Oh good! I´m ALMOST secure
for ONE turn! And all I have to do is succedd in my action AND pay a
blood? That means the Tzimisce and Toreador can´t rush me? No.. they
have AUS. The !Malk can´t Derange me? No... thye have AUS. The Tremere
can´t use Seeds on me? Yes they can! They have AUS! The Setites can´t
tempt me? Well, not for one turn they can´t. Um... well, at least the
Brujah won´t rush me for a turn either... except for Theo Bell.. and
Menele.. and some others... Definately NOT worth a slot.
> Muhandis - This guy is seriously underpowered compared to some other guys.
> He didn't need that drawback.
>
Well. He´s not that bad... yes, terribly underpowered compared to some
new vamps, but not that bad.
> Thought?
>
> /henrik isaksson
My list of good/bad not already mentioned:
The GOOD:
Approximation of Loyalty. Finally Presence can (kind of) seduce! One
of the effects that were missing considering the discipline´s most
basic uses.. hehe.
Now all we need is Strike: Combat Ends for Obfuscate! :D BTW, did you
know that in the RPG, this power is actually called Approximation fo
Loyalty ABSOLUTE, and requires Presence AND Dominate? Guess they left
out any absoluteness along with the DOM! :D
Descent into Darkness. COOL COOL COOL!! Did I mention COOL? New effect
with lots of potential. So, you Sensory Deprived me? No problem, my
last action will be to leave play until your Ravnos gets diablerized!
Temptation? OK, here´s one vampire you´re NEVER going to steal!
Derange? Ok, so i´m a crazy Malk, with an urge to visit the Abyss!! :D
And they come back ready for another Minion Tap!
Occlusion: Simple. Elegant. VERY Effective.
Petra. Sexiest Nos ever! Move over Lucretia!
Baldesar Rossellini. FANTASTIC! (I wish he were a Setite) He could
even fit in some Lasombra Bruise decks with just a little trouble.
Mausoleum, Morgue and Tower of Lonson for 3pool!!!!
Crocodile´s Tongue. Combine this with Approximation of Loyalty for
some powerfull Toreador decks!
Cavalcade of Great Sabbat Vampires. Almost ALL of them are fantastic!
Marthe, Bruce, Cyseck, Una, Jesse, Hartmut, John Paleologus, Shawnda
and Marie are so good they just scream to be used right away! :)
The BAD:
Revelations of Desire. Should be called: Left A LOT to Desire. Lousy
bleed modifier with conditional superior use. For a clan with
Presence, Night Moves, Spying Mission, Enticement and Edge Vitiation,
this becoems wallpaper quickly. Also does NOT synergize as well as it
might seem with Corruption decks as it forces you to burn a counter,
further increasing the already high mumber of actions such a deck
needs. Cute for the occasinal susprise factor only.
Diamond Thunderbolt. Completely screws Form/Corruption decks. It WILL
see some play as it also hoses Graverobbing (with or without
Baltimore), Mind Rape, Spirit Marrionette and Malkavian Dementia
decks. Hand Jam is not a factor since it can be used to give blood as
well.
Seren Sukardi (or Seren Sucks-Hard as he is already being called
around here). Why bother with a special power that will never see any
use? For added sarcasm, he gets superior Thaumaturgy, so whenever you
think of using it, you also think: Press+Walk of Flame is SO MUCH
easier, why bother yet again? And the Setites remain with only one
7cap with all in-clans at superior and one 8cap with all in-clans at
superior. Also, ZERO new vampires with serpentis in Gehenna other than
the two Setites. So basically, they get frozen till February.
A lot more so than the other indies, who at least share discipline
spreads with other clans.
(yes, I like Setites)
Umm..... not much else really, all the other bummy cards have been
mentioned. Most of the new set is awesome. And I donpt think the
events will destroy play as some people think. The hand-jam and chaos
factors will dissuade most people from using them heavilly after the
initial fad.
Daniel.
> > So, which cards do you love/hate so far?
> >
> > Ma favourites:
> > Carver's Meat Packing and Storage - great for weenie-bashing
> >
> Fun! Fun! Fun! And cool illustration as well! A use for all those
> disciplineless embraces that get blocked during their first hunt
> action.
Now Multi-rush can handle a weenie prey
> > Dragonbound - goodies for combat decks are always nice
>
> One of my favourites as well. Goes right into my Setite Typhonean
> Beast deck.
More goodness for Multi-rush
> > Perfectionist - probably the only of the new archetypes I'll play with.
>
> The nicest new Archetyp, but still I like the old ones better hehe..
> don´t know why though.
Generally, the old ones are better, but they only work on Sabbat vampires
> > Sleep of Reason - Lot's of new cards make it harder for vampires to keep
> > their blood, making them targets for this. Try with Hazamiel, Free
states
> > rant and a few freak drives!
> >
> Amazing card! Endgame will be full of vampires without blood.
> Dementation is fast becoming one of the most powerfull disciplines.
It does cost two though so in the end game it is very expensive.
> > Conniver - really should be trifle... Only way I'm seeing that it could
be
> > used is if grand prey is a voter, but how can you assure that? Will
never
> > play this!
> >
> Crappy.. Promotes even more bounce..
Conniver is hot in a deflection deck.
> > Sleep Unseen - Cost one blood, after a succesfull action making you
almost
> > immune to rush for one round? That crap!
> >
> Terrible. Should at least have been free. Oh good! I´m ALMOST secure
> for ONE turn! And all I have to do is succedd in my action AND pay a
> blood? That means the Tzimisce and Toreador can´t rush me? No.. they
> have AUS. The !Malk can´t Derange me? No... thye have AUS. The Tremere
> can´t use Seeds on me? Yes they can! They have AUS! The Setites can´t
> tempt me? Well, not for one turn they can´t. Um... well, at least the
> Brujah won´t rush me for a turn either... except for Theo Bell.. and
> Menele.. and some others... Definately NOT worth a slot.
It is Theo Bell ADV who has the aus and he doesn't have the built in rush
unless you merge him.
> > Muhandis - This guy is seriously underpowered compared to some other
guys.
> > He didn't need that drawback.
He is strong with the new block denial cards. In fact Annabelle Triabelle's
stock just rose $5.
> Well. He´s not that bad... yes, terribly underpowered compared to some
> new vamps, but not that bad.
>
> > Thought?
> >
> > /henrik isaksson
>
>
> My list of good/bad not already mentioned:
>
> The GOOD:
>
> Approximation of Loyalty. Finally Presence can (kind of) seduce! One
> of the effects that were missing considering the discipline´s most
> basic uses.. hehe.
> Now all we need is Strike: Combat Ends for Obfuscate! :D BTW, did you
> know that in the RPG, this power is actually called Approximation fo
> Loyalty ABSOLUTE, and requires Presence AND Dominate? Guess they left
> out any absoluteness along with the DOM! :D
It's called Flash Grenade and Concealed Weapon
> Descent into Darkness. COOL COOL COOL!! Did I mention COOL? New effect
> with lots of potential. So, you Sensory Deprived me? No problem, my
> last action will be to leave play until your Ravnos gets diablerized!
> Temptation? OK, here´s one vampire you´re NEVER going to steal!
> Derange? Ok, so i´m a crazy Malk, with an urge to visit the Abyss!! :D
> And they come back ready for another Minion Tap!
>
> Occlusion: Simple. Elegant. VERY Effective.
>
> Petra. Sexiest Nos ever! Move over Lucretia!
And Skidmark. Uglies Nos Ever! Move over Sheldon and Beast.
Here comes the poster boy for Mimic, The Movie!
> Revelations of Desire. Should be called: Left A LOT to Desire. Lousy
> bleed modifier with conditional superior use. For a clan with
> Presence, Night Moves, Spying Mission, Enticement and Edge Vitiation,
> this becoems wallpaper quickly. Also does NOT synergize as well as it
> might seem with Corruption decks as it forces you to burn a counter,
> further increasing the already high mumber of actions such a deck
> needs. Cute for the occasinal susprise factor only.
This card is HOT!HOT!HOT! Venetiation, Form of Mist, Revalations of Desire.
OUCH!
> Diamond Thunderbolt. Completely screws Form/Corruption decks. It WILL
> see some play as it also hoses Graverobbing (with or without
> Baltimore), Mind Rape, Spirit Marrionette and Malkavian Dementia
> decks. Hand Jam is not a factor since it can be used to give blood as
> well.
>
> Seren Sukardi (or Seren Sucks-Hard as he is already being called
> around here). Why bother with a special power that will never see any
> use? For added sarcasm, he gets superior Thaumaturgy, so whenever you
> think of using it, you also think: Press+Walk of Flame is SO MUCH
> easier, why bother yet again? And the Setites remain with only one
> 7cap with all in-clans at superior and one 8cap with all in-clans at
> superior. Also, ZERO new vampires with serpentis in Gehenna other than
> the two Setites. So basically, they get frozen till February.
> A lot more so than the other indies, who at least share discipline
> spreads with other clans.
>
> (yes, I like Setites)
Seren is a wait and see vampire. If you could put him in the same crypt as
Samat Ramal-Ra ten that woudl be hot.
--
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
Some other good/bad:
Good:
Crocodile´s Tongue: 2 blood for blocking is huge in late-game.
Games of Instinct: not for wall-block, but good for casual intercept
(and for aids/crows)
Occlusion: Free chimersry with two good effects. Top 5 in the set
(depending on impact of Gehennacards).
(Really) bad:
Centralized Background Check: should have an additional effect to be
worth a masterslot.
Personal Involvment: In what decks can this card be effective?
Poison Pill: There are other reaction vs votes that are better and
still doesn´t see any play.
Traditionalist: Even with trifle, it´s a weak card. How many times
will this happen in a normal game?
/Mathias
"kushiel" <thisi_s...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >
> > My favourite card so far is Perfectionist. That card blows away all
> > other archetypes IMHO.
>
> Conniver isn't good?
It's ok, but still nowhere near as good as Perfectionist. Conniver's window
of opportunity is very narrow IMHO.
> What about weenie Auspex?
What about it?
> (I also think
> Neighborhood Watch Commander is probably super-good for weenie
> Auspex...)
Yes, that's a nice card too.
> I'm not quite sure I see how Perfectionist is so fantastic. I know
> that there are some decks which feature minions that people don't
> normally bother trying to block (Hesha comes to mind), but for the
> part I think part this card is only going to be good for
> rush/combat-heavy decks, and then only when someone doesn't have
> a disposable minion to throw in your way (or just a Wake that they
> want to cycle without bothering to do anything).
But you could conceivably use Perfectionist on *any* action. A hunt becomes
a hunt for 2. A vote also becomes a hunt. A bleed also becomes a hunt. A
recruit ally action also becomes a hunt.
Sure, someone could cycle a wake to make you not gain a blood, but I see
that as an accpetable risk. Hell, let them cycle their wakes! That means one
less blocking minion when I do something nasty to them :)
> Capitalist, on the
> other hand, is probably better, as most minions will bleed at some
> point in the game.
You also gain blood from Perfectionist, when bleeding (assuming that you are
successful).
> Capitalist also works well in both stealth/bleed and
> bruise/bleed decks,
Same applies to Perfectionist for both, but Perfectionist is more versatile.
> as well being better than hunting for a minion
> who's only bleeding for one when there are more dangerous minions on
> the table (Isabel Giovanni bleeding for one when Andrea and Gillespi
> are still untapped, for instance),
Same applies to Perfectionist.
Note that none of the Giovanni you mention are Sabbat, so they are not
eligible for Capitalist.
> whereas Perfectionist seems more
> suited to a narrower range of deck types.
I'm not sure why you say this. Perfectionist seems to have a much bigger
window of opportunity for play, since it is not limited *just* to bleeds.
Additionally, Capitalist is Sabbat-only whereas Perfectionist (IIRC) can go
on any vampire.
> Of course, I have no
> personal play data on Perfectionist yet - anybody want to fill me
> in as to how well it works in real play? :)
Fantasticly! :)
I think at least one will go in most of my decks.
Cheers,
WES
> (Really) bad:
>
> Centralized Background Check: should have an additional effect to be
> worth a masterslot.
As a hoser it is very strong. If you expect weapons then this card wrecks
that decktype.
> Personal Involvment: In what decks can this card be effective?
In just about every deck, it is the bully that goes with the bloat. A very
strong effect, dangerously so.
> Poison Pill: There are other reaction vs votes that are better and
> still doesn´t see any play.
You can combo it with Elder Kindred Network to clip aggressive voting decks,
but it doesn't address VP sniping which is the biggest voter threat.
> Traditionalist: Even with trifle, it´s a weak card. How many times
> will this happen in a normal game?
It is strong in a Anarch Revolt deck where you are constantly voting down
votes.
[ quoted text not captured ]
om...@uol.com.br (Daniel Figueiredo) wrote in message news:<b2fbf7ad.04052...@posting.google.com>...
> Revelations of Desire. Should be called: Left A LOT to Desire. Lousy> bleed modifier with conditional superior use...
Great for monoserpentis, and REALLY great mixed with...I shall be coy
and say "an out-of-clan discipline". If my idea works as well as I
think it will, I'll post a deck list here.
> Seren Sukardi (or Seren Sucks-Hard as he is already being called
> around here). Why bother with a special power that will never see any
> use?
It's a free power, you know. Seren is a 7-cap with 7 points of
disciplines. What's bad about having a free power that might come into
play, and will send an opposing vampire to torpor if it does?
> For added sarcasm, he gets superior Thaumaturgy, so whenever you
> think of using it, you also think: Press+Walk of Flame is SO MUCH
> easier, why bother yet again?
Well, you don't have to have the Walk in your hand. And it can't be
prevented. I don't think you should try to build a deck around Seren's
power, but if you've got him in a deck with Apportations anyway, you
might get lucky. Oh, and did I mention it's free?
On 24 May 2004 07:17:44 -0700, Daniel Figueiredo <om...@uol.com.br> wrote:
>> The Erciyes Fragments - not gehenna but almost... This card is super!
>> Perfect for taking usefull stuff like blood dolls or wakes.> Coolest i´ve seen it take is a Perfect Clarity to oust a guy with 3
> deflections in hand!
At Finnish ECQ tournament I managed to oust my prey with first deflecting
with his wake and next turn waking and using his deflection.
--
Powerbase: Turku
http://www.tenerdo.org/
(snip comments where I agree 100%)
>
> > > Sleep of Reason - Lot's of new cards make it harder for vampires to keep
> > > their blood, making them targets for this. Try with Hazamiel, Free
> states
> > > rant and a few freak drives!
> > >
> > Amazing card! Endgame will be full of vampires without blood.
> > Dementation is fast becoming one of the most powerfull disciplines.
>
> It does cost two though so in the end game it is very expensive.
Well, it couldn´t be FREE now, could it? :)
> > > Sleep Unseen - Cost one blood, after a succesfull action making you
> almost
> > > immune to rush for one round? That crap!
> > >
> > Terrible. Should at least have been free. Oh good! I´m ALMOST secure
> > for ONE turn! And all I have to do is succedd in my action AND pay a
> > blood? That means the Tzimisce and Toreador can´t rush me? No.. they
> > have AUS. The !Malk can´t Derange me? No... thye have AUS. The Tremere
> > can´t use Seeds on me? Yes they can! They have AUS! The Setites can´t
> > tempt me? Well, not for one turn they can´t. Um... well, at least the
> > Brujah won´t rush me for a turn either... except for Theo Bell.. and
> > Menele.. and some others... Definately NOT worth a slot.
>
> It is Theo Bell ADV who has the aus and he doesn't have the built in rush
> unless you merge him.
>
he may not have built-in rush, but he can rush all the same with rush
cards. :)
> > Approximation of Loyalty. Finally Presence can (kind of) seduce! One
> > of the effects that were missing considering the discipline´s most
> > basic uses.. hehe.
> > Now all we need is Strike: Combat Ends for Obfuscate! :D BTW, did you
> > know that in the RPG, this power is actually called Approximation fo
> > Loyalty ABSOLUTE, and requires Presence AND Dominate? Guess they left
> > out any absoluteness along with the DOM! :D
>
> It's called Flash Grenade and Concealed Weapon
Mmm.... not exactly obfuscate S:CE, but I was just kidding there. S:CE
for Obfuscate may never see print so as not to make the Malks too
powefull. They don´t have the best combat defense there is, and S:CE
would fiz that a lot.
> > Revelations of Desire. Should be called: Left A LOT to Desire. Lousy
> > bleed modifier with conditional superior use. For a clan with
> > Presence, Night Moves, Spying Mission, Enticement and Edge Vitiation,
> > this becoems wallpaper quickly. Also does NOT synergize as well as it
> > might seem with Corruption decks as it forces you to burn a counter,
> > further increasing the already high mumber of actions such a deck
> > needs. Cute for the occasinal susprise factor only.
>
> This card is HOT!HOT!HOT! Venetiation, Form of Mist, Revalations of Desire.
> OUCH!
>
OK, remove one HOT since your suggested combo requires 3 cards in
hand. (more if you count the stealth you will need for the bleed to
get across)
Now, remove another HOT since it requires 2 disciplines at superior,
and only 3vampires in the game have that combination (Nehsi, Nadima
and Mirembe), one being a 10cap.
Now, remove another HOT since this combo still is not ANY better than
a Night Moves + Enticement, which you can do with far less trouble,
cards, blood and stealth as well.
So far all you have left is the OUCH! And when you remember you can
stil get bounced/reduced/blocked/Direct Interventioned anyway... that
OUCH gains a whole new meaning to it.
:)
> > Seren Sukardi (or Seren Sucks-Hard as he is already being called
> > around here). Why bother with a special power that will never see any
> > use? For added sarcasm, he gets superior Thaumaturgy, so whenever you
> > think of using it, you also think: Press+Walk of Flame is SO MUCH
> > easier, why bother yet again? And the Setites remain with only one
> > 7cap with all in-clans at superior and one 8cap with all in-clans at
> > superior. Also, ZERO new vampires with serpentis in Gehenna other than
> > the two Setites. So basically, they get frozen till February.
> > A lot more so than the other indies, who at least share discipline
> > spreads with other clans.
> >
> > (yes, I like Setites)
>
> Seren is a wait and see vampire. If you could put him in the same crypt as
> Samat Ramal-Ra ten that woudl be hot.
If you could put him in the same crypt, he would still be incompetent
and need the deck built around him in order to work. Since you can´t,
yes, all we can do is wait and see. Excuse me Mr. Seren, could you
wait here in the sun for a moment? Not to your liking? Well, i´m
afraid it´s the Card Storage Drawer for you then.
:)
Daniel.
> > > My favourite card so far is Perfectionist. That card blows away all
> > > other archetypes IMHO.
> >
> > Conniver isn't good?
>
> It's ok, but still nowhere near as good as Perfectionist. Conniver's window
> of opportunity is very narrow IMHO.
>
> > What about weenie Auspex?
>
> What about it?
>
If you bounce a bleed to your prey, your Conniver gains a blood. If your
prey takes a point of damage from a cross-table KRC or Malkavian Foo, your
Conniver gains a blood.
> But you could conceivably use Perfectionist on *any* action. A hunt becomes
> a hunt for 2. A vote also becomes a hunt. A bleed also becomes a hunt. A
> recruit ally action also becomes a hunt.
>
> Sure, someone could cycle a wake to make you not gain a blood, but I see
> that as an accpetable risk. Hell, let them cycle their wakes! That means one
> less blocking minion when I do something nasty to them :)
>
Or they could just block you and kill you.
All this Perfectionist-happiness forgets that the minion does not gain
blood if the action is blocked, or if *any* reaction cards are played,
including intercept (even if the block fails) or bounce, or even those
silly successful-hunt reaction cards.
"Gregory Stuart Pettigrew" <ethe...@sidehack.sat.gweep.net> wrote
>
> If you bounce a bleed to your prey, your Conniver gains a blood. If
your
> prey takes a point of damage from a cross-table KRC or Malkavian Foo,
your
> Conniver gains a blood.
(Note that you would have to *successfully* bounce the bleed. If your
prey blocked/reduced etc then you would *not* gain the blood.)
Yes... but so what?
Which do you expect to see more:
1) One of your vampire's actions not being reacted to at all
2) Successfully bouncing a bleed/cross-table love
Probably depends on how your deck is built, but in most decks I would
say #1 is more common than #2. Big time.
I'm not saying Conniver is a bad card. I am saying that it is inferior
in most situations to Perfectionist.
Note also that the two cards, though archetypes, are very different in
scope. It would be better to compare Perfectionist to the more proactive
archetypes such as Capitalist, Bravo, etc. In fact, I would say that is
another reason to prefer Perfectionist, because of its proactiveness.
With Conniver, you are relying on someone else to do something before
you get the blood. Me, I'd rather have control over when I get it.
> > But you could conceivably use Perfectionist on *any* action. A hunt
becomes
> > a hunt for 2. A vote also becomes a hunt. A bleed also becomes a
hunt. A
> > recruit ally action also becomes a hunt.
> >
> > Sure, someone could cycle a wake to make you not gain a blood, but I
see
> > that as an accpetable risk. Hell, let them cycle their wakes! That
means one
> > less blocking minion when I do something nasty to them :)
>
> Or they could just block you and kill you.
Well, duh... yeah. But they could do that anyway, right? What does that
have to do with the relative value of Perfectionist?
> All this Perfectionist-happiness forgets that the minion does not gain
> blood if the action is blocked, or if *any* reaction cards are played,
> including intercept (even if the block fails) or bounce, or even those
> silly successful-hunt reaction cards.
I have not forgotten the conditions of Perfectionist. Each archetype has
conditions. The conditions for Perfectionist are less drastic than those
of the other archetypes. I would add an "IMHO" to that, but I think that
most people would agree with me.
Cheers,
WES
emmits...@hotmail.com (Emmit Svenson) wrote in message news:<75bdf7ed.04052...@posting.google.com>...
> om...@uol.com.br (Daniel Figueiredo) wrote in message news:<b2fbf7ad.04052...@posting.google.com>...
> > Revelations of Desire. Should be called: Left A LOT to Desire. Lousy
> > bleed modifier with conditional superior use...
>
> Great for monoserpentis, and REALLY great mixed with...I shall be coy
> and say "an out-of-clan discipline". If my idea works as well as I
> think it will, I'll post a deck list here.
>
> > Seren Sukardi (or Seren Sucks-Hard as he is already being called
> > around here). Why bother with a special power that will never see any
> > use?
>
> It's a free power, you know. Seren is a 7-cap with 7 points of
> disciplines. What's bad about having a free power that might come into
> play, and will send an opposing vampire to torpor if it does?
>
It will never come into play unless you try to make it. I´d rather he
didn´thave any special and have superior Presence instead of
Thaumaturgy (if out-of-clan vs. in-clan even makes a "point"
difference, I don´t know)
> > For added sarcasm, he gets superior Thaumaturgy, so whenever you
> > think of using it, you also think: Press+Walk of Flame is SO MUCH
> > easier, why bother yet again?
>
> Well, you don't have to have the Walk in your hand. And it can't be
> prevented. I don't think you should try to build a deck around Seren's
> power, but if you've got him in a deck with Apportations anyway, you
> might get lucky. Oh, and did I mention it's free?
It´s a free waste of ink that´s what it is. Don´t forget that not only
is it hard for you to pull it off, it´s EASY for your opponent to
avoid.
Daniel.
> > Centralized Background Check: should have an additional effect to be
> > worth a masterslot.
>
> As a hoser it is very strong. If you expect weapons then this card wrecks
> that decktype.
I惴 talking about which cards that will make it into tournament decks.
These are the strong cards. Do you expect CBC to be a hot card in the
tournament winning decks archive? Even in a weapons deck, you seldom
play more than three weapons. Poor effect.
> > Personal Involvment: In what decks can this card be effective?
>
> In just about every deck, it is the bully that goes with the bloat. A very
> strong effect, dangerously so.
The three skull cost at the bottom of the card plus the condition to
play it means you have to be a serious bloater. How many will you
include to make an effect? Couldn愒 these masterslots have been filled
with some good?
> > Poison Pill: There are other reaction vs votes that are better and> > still doesn愒 see any play.>
> You can combo it with Elder Kindred Network to clip aggressive voting decks,
> but it doesn't address VP sniping which is the biggest voter threat.
If I惴 sitting with poison pill, my predator calls banishment. That愀
Murphys law.
> > Traditionalist: Even with trifle, it愀 a weak card. How many times> > will this happen in a normal game?
>
> It is strong in a Anarch Revolt deck where you are constantly voting down
> votes.
You either have more votes and no one tries to remove them or fewer
votes and you will run out of dread gazes pretty quick if there a
descent number of vamps controlled by other (good) players.
/Mathias
om...@uol.com.br (Daniel Figueiredo) wrote in message news:<b2fbf7ad.04052...@posting.google.com>...
> > Well, you don't have to have the Walk in your hand. And it can't be
> > prevented. I don't think you should try to build a deck around Seren's
> > power, but if you've got him in a deck with Apportations anyway, you
> > might get lucky. Oh, and did I mention it's free?
>> It愀 a free waste of ink that愀 what it is. Don愒 forget that not only
> is it hard for you to pull it off, it愀 EASY for your opponent to
> avoid.
So what? It's free. If Count Ormonde had the same disciplines and same
capacity, plus the special ability "Once per turn, Count Ormonde may
do the Hokey Pokey," he'd still be a perfectly good vamp despite the
fact that his power was useless. Seren's power might actually be
useful, but if it isn't, hell, it's free.
"Hey, Moses, want some commandments?"
"How much are they?"
"Uh, free."
"Free? I'll take ten!"
Gregory Stuart Pettigrew <ethe...@sidehack.sat.gweep.net> wrote in message news:<2004052417...@sidehack.sat.gweep.net>...
> > Personal Involvment: In what decks can this card be effective?
> >
>
> Almost all decks would like to use an MPA to bleed their prey for 2.
What?! Explain please?
"XZealot" <nbr...@rapidretailsolutions.com> wrote in message news:<2helnkF...@uni-berlin.de>...
> > (Really) bad:
> >
> > Centralized Background Check: should have an additional effect to be
> > worth a masterslot.
>
> As a hoser it is very strong. If you expect weapons then this card wrecks
> that decktype.
Eh... What decks do you mean? I think of a normal .44-gundeck. It
wouldn´t have any trouble paying 3 for their guns. The card should
have had "Burn to burn a equipment" as a secondary effect. And why
print all these hoser cards? Why not make more constructive cards.
> > Personal Involvment: In what decks can this card be effective?
>
> In just about every deck, it is the bully that goes with the bloat. A very
> strong effect, dangerously so.
I cannot today see myself putting this card in any deck. Tips are
welcome.
> > Poison Pill: There are other reaction vs votes that are better and
> > still doesn´t see any play.
>
> You can combo it with Elder Kindred Network to clip aggressive voting decks,
> but it doesn't address VP sniping which is the biggest voter threat.
I agree with Azcought. And again, why hose? I rarely play with hosers
unless I absolutely have to.
> > Traditionalist: Even with trifle, it´s a weak card. How many times
> > will this happen in a normal game?
>
> It is strong in a Anarch Revolt deck where you are constantly voting down
> votes.
Yeah. Those decks really needed boost :) And, what? Is there anyone
who tries to vote away the Revolts unless they know they are going to
succeed? Why bother?
In message <6f108788.04052...@posting.google.com>,
per_m...@hotmail.com (agzocgud) mumbled something about:
>I´m talking about which cards that will make it into tournament decks.>These are the strong cards. Do you expect CBC to be a hot card in the
>tournament winning decks archive? Even in a weapons deck, you seldom
>play more than three weapons. Poor effect.
And those three weapons will be one pool more expensive.
Sometimes, one pool more expensive is too much.
>> > Personal Involvment: In what decks can this card be effective?
>>
>> In just about every deck, it is the bully that goes with the bloat. A very
>> strong effect, dangerously so.>
>The three skull cost at the bottom of the card plus the condition to
>play it means you have to be a serious bloater. How many will you>include to make an effect? Couldn´t these masterslots have been filled
>with some good?
I would put two in a deck. It is a Master-phase finishing hammer that
comes when nobody else can afford to spend 2 pool; when your prey has
carefully calculated his defense and knows just what he can take, and
what he can't. In the endgame, this card will be the difference between
"sweep" and "nothing".
>> > Poison Pill: There are other reaction vs votes that are better and>> > still doesn´t see any play.>>
>> You can combo it with Elder Kindred Network to clip aggressive voting decks,
>> but it doesn't address VP sniping which is the biggest voter threat.>>If I´m sitting with poison pill, my predator calls banishment. That´s
>Murphys law.
Scared money never wins.
-- Derek
a host is a host from coast to coast
and no one will talk to a host that's close
unless the host that isn't close
is busy, hung, or dead
henrik isaksson wrote:
>
> Jacob, The Glitch - this vampire would be great if only I could find a way
> of forcing him on my prey... =) Will only play if I really want to empty my
> library for some reason...
>
Hmmm...I think I put 3 copies of Jacob to a setite deck, and Enchant
him up only to be put to the Towers next round. After which the
anarchs Dedefra and Sarrasine can play Gear Up if something useful
went to the ash heap. Or maybe not. But that is the closest thing to
usefulness for Jacob I have managed to figure out.
-Antero
emmits...@hotmail.com (Emmit Svenson) wrote in message news:<75bdf7ed.04052...@posting.google.com>...
> om...@uol.com.br (Daniel Figueiredo) wrote in message news:<b2fbf7ad.04052...@posting.google.com>...
> > > Well, you don't have to have the Walk in your hand. And it can't be
> > > prevented. I don't think you should try to build a deck around Seren's
> > > power, but if you've got him in a deck with Apportations anyway, you
> > > might get lucky. Oh, and did I mention it's free?
> >> > It´s a free waste of ink that´s what it is. Don´t forget that not only
> > is it hard for you to pull it off, it´s EASY for your opponent to> > avoid.
>
> So what? It's free. If Count Ormonde had the same disciplines and same
> capacity, plus the special ability "Once per turn, Count Ormonde may
> do the Hokey Pokey," he'd still be a perfectly good vamp despite the
> fact that his power was useless. Seren's power might actually be
> useful, but if it isn't, hell, it's free.
>
OK. It´s free. But still... free crap isn´t good just because it´s
free. That rationale only goes so far! :)
> "Hey, Moses, want some commandments?"
> "How much are they?"
> "Uh, free."
> "Free? I'll take ten!"
You left out 2/3 of the joke! :)
Daniel.
emmits...@hotmail.com (Emmit Svenson) wrote in message news:<75bdf7ed.04052...@posting.google.com>...
[ quoted text not captured ]
Im definately going to build a deck around him... im not saying it
will win alot, but give him a for skill card, a hawg and some IR
goggles then he can multirush and torporize people without spending
cards... just make sure you have some way of checking the hand of the
meth youre rushing.
If they have no combat ends, or no immortal grapples or stuff that
ruins his power, then dont rush.. when they run out, rush alot for one
turn and give them a trip to torpor land.
> So what? It's free. If Count Ormonde had the same disciplines and same
> capacity, plus the special ability "Once per turn, Count Ormonde may
> do the Hokey Pokey," he'd still be a perfectly good vamp despite the
> fact that his power was useless. Seren's power might actually be
> useful, but if it isn't, hell, it's free.
Unless WW altered the design formula, a 7-cap "gets" 8 design points
worth of abilities. Meaning, that according to the formula the ability
actually costs one design point's worth.
Bye,
Daneel
om...@uol.com.br (Daniel Figueiredo) wrote in message news:<b2fbf7ad.04052...@posting.google.com>...
> emmits...@hotmail.com (Emmit Svenson) wrote in message news:<75bdf7ed.04052...@posting.google.com>...
> > om...@uol.com.br (Daniel Figueiredo) wrote in message news:<b2fbf7ad.04052...@posting.google.com>...
> > > Revelations of Desire. Should be called: Left A LOT to Desire. Lousy
> > > bleed modifier with conditional superior use...
> >
> > Great for monoserpentis, and REALLY great mixed with...I shall be coy
> > and say "an out-of-clan discipline". If my idea works as well as I
> > think it will, I'll post a deck list here.
> >
> > > Seren Sukardi (or Seren Sucks-Hard as he is already being called
> > > around here). Why bother with a special power that will never see any
> > > use?
> >
> > It's a free power, you know. Seren is a 7-cap with 7 points of
> > disciplines. What's bad about having a free power that might come into
> > play, and will send an opposing vampire to torpor if it does?
> >> It will never come into play unless you try to make it. I悲 rather he
> didn愒have any special and have superior Presence instead of> Thaumaturgy (if out-of-clan vs. in-clan even makes a "point"> difference, I don愒 know)
It doesn't. So having or not having this special doesn't affect his
discipline spread, and he wouldn't be getting an extra discipline
instead of the special.
> > > For added sarcasm, he gets superior Thaumaturgy, so whenever you
> > > think of using it, you also think: Press+Walk of Flame is SO MUCH
> > > easier, why bother yet again?
> >
> > Well, you don't have to have the Walk in your hand. And it can't be
> > prevented. I don't think you should try to build a deck around Seren's
> > power, but if you've got him in a deck with Apportations anyway, you
> > might get lucky. Oh, and did I mention it's free?
>> It愀 a free waste of ink that愀 what it is. Don愒 forget that not only
> is it hard for you to pull it off, it愀 EASY for your opponent to
> avoid.
That's true, but again, it's _costing you nothing_ to have that
corner-case ability. You haven't lost out on any discipline or other
special.
When Emmit is saying 'it's free', he doesn't mean 'it costs Seren
nothing' - he means it is costing you the player nothing to have this
ability on Seren.
Yes, it's not likely to come up, and it's not all that easy to build
for. But when you are building your deck, there's no cost to your
crypt for him to have the ability. He's still a 7-cap with 7 levels of
disciplines; the fact that he has a very corner-case special is
entirely and totally a (very small) added bonus that has zero penalty
to your deck, even if you are NOT ever planning to use it. It has
absolutely no downside, because it has no penalty and at worst you
simply don't ever use his special - in which case he's still a
correctly-powered vampire.
> Daniel.
-John Flournoy
as...@hotmail.com (Henrik Klippstr?m) wrote in message news:<5a3b0aea.04052...@posting.google.com>...
> "XZealot" <nbr...@rapidretailsolutions.com> wrote in message news:<2helnkF...@uni-berlin.de>...
> > > (Really) bad:
> > > Centralized Background Check: should have an additional effect to be
> > > worth a masterslot.
> >
> > As a hoser it is very strong. If you expect weapons then this card wrecks
> > that decktype.
>
> Eh... What decks do you mean? I think of a normal .44-gundeck. It
> wouldn´t have any trouble paying 3 for their guns.
No, but it would have trouble playing Concealed Weapon. Ouch!
om...@uol.com.br (Daniel Figueiredo) wrote in message news:<b2fbf7ad.04052...@posting.google.com>...
> OK. It´s free. But still... free crap isn´t good just because it´s
> free. That rationale only goes so far! :)
Seren's got possibilities.
Deck Name: Seren Sukardi Multiaction Module
Created By: Emmit Svenson
Description: For a 90-card deck, X = 4 or 5.
Crypt: (3 cards, Min: 7, Max: 7, Avg: 7.00)
-------------------------------------------
3 Seren Sukardi pre OBF SER THA 7, Followers of Set:4
Library: (5 * X cards)
-------------------
Action (10 cards)
X Rutor's Hand
X Temptation
Action Modifier (10 cards)
X Cloak the Gathering
X Forgotten Labyrinth
Equipment (5 cards)
X Inscription
> > "Hey, Moses, want some commandments?"
> > "How much are they?"
> > "Uh, free."
> > "Free? I'll take ten!"
>
> You left out 2/3 of the joke! :)
>
> Daniel.
Yeah, the whole joke sounds antisemetic if it's told wrong. I didn't
want to hurt anyone's feelings by laying it out in plain text.
as...@hotmail.com (Henrik Klippstr?m) wrote in message news:<5a3b0aea.04052...@posting.google.com>...
> > As a hoser it is very strong. If you expect weapons then this card wrecks
> > that decktype.
>
> Eh... What decks do you mean? I think of a normal .44-gundeck. It
> wouldn´t have any trouble paying 3 for their guns. The card should
> have had "Burn to burn a equipment" as a secondary effect. And why
> print all these hoser cards? Why not make more constructive cards.
That will mean they cannot use Concealed Weapon in the standard .44
Gun deck. I don't think you need a hoser stronger than that. Aside of
the fact that with one free master card you wallpaper 10% of their
deck, you may also _completely_ prevent them from getting their guns
equipped if you also have Intercept.
Bye,
Daneel
"Daniel Figueiredo" <om...@uol.com.br> wrote in message
news:b2fbf7ad.04052...@posting.google.com...
> emmits...@hotmail.com (Emmit Svenson) wrote in message
news:<75bdf7ed.04052...@posting.google.com>...
> > om...@uol.com.br (Daniel Figueiredo) wrote in message
news:<b2fbf7ad.04052...@posting.google.com>...
> > > > Well, you don't have to have the Walk in your hand. And it can't be
> > > > prevented. I don't think you should try to build a deck around
Seren's
> > > > power, but if you've got him in a deck with Apportations anyway, you
> > > > might get lucky. Oh, and did I mention it's free?
> > >
> > > It´s a free waste of ink that´s what it is. Don´t forget that not only
> > > is it hard for you to pull it off, it´s EASY for your opponent to
> > > avoid.
> >
> > So what? It's free. If Count Ormonde had the same disciplines and same
> > capacity, plus the special ability "Once per turn, Count Ormonde may
> > do the Hokey Pokey," he'd still be a perfectly good vamp despite the
> > fact that his power was useless. Seren's power might actually be
> > useful, but if it isn't, hell, it's free.
> >
>
> OK. It´s free. But still... free crap isn´t good just because it´s
> free. That rationale only goes so far! :)
Free crap is good just because it IS free. If you don't like the free crap,
you can always give or throw it away and not even feel bad about it.
Free is good.
Raille
[ quoted text not captured ]
Personal Involvement [Gehenna:R]
Cardtype: Master
Cost: 3 pool
Master.
If your prey has more pool than you (after paying the cost of this card),
your prey burns 3 pool. Any Methuselah can cancel this card as it is
played by burning 2 pool (the cost of this card is not paid in that case).
When you play this card, one of three things will happen:
1. You and your prey each burn 3 pool. Not the most amazing master in the
world, but if you can beat him by attrition, it will help.
2. The card is Suddened. Drat.
3. The card is cancelled via its own card text. A good chunk of the time,
this will be by your prey, who cannot afford to lose 3 pool to you (You
bleed machine, you), and must live with 2 pool loss. True, someone else
could cancel it (even you), but it still costs them 2 pool.
om...@uol.com.br (Daniel Figueiredo) wrote in message news:<b2fbf7ad.04052...@posting.google.com>...
> emmits...@hotmail.com (Emmit Svenson) wrote in message news:<75bdf7ed.04052...@posting.google.com>...
> > om...@uol.com.br (Daniel Figueiredo) wrote in message news:<b2fbf7ad.04052...@posting.google.com>...
> > > > Well, you don't have to have the Walk in your hand. And it can't be
> > > > prevented. I don't think you should try to build a deck around Seren's
> > > > power, but if you've got him in a deck with Apportations anyway, you
> > > > might get lucky. Oh, and did I mention it's free?
> > >
> > > It´s a free waste of ink that´s what it is. Don´t forget that not only
> > > is it hard for you to pull it off, it´s EASY for your opponent to
> > > avoid.
> >
> > So what? It's free. If Count Ormonde had the same disciplines and same
> > capacity, plus the special ability "Once per turn, Count Ormonde may
> > do the Hokey Pokey," he'd still be a perfectly good vamp despite the
> > fact that his power was useless. Seren's power might actually be
> > useful, but if it isn't, hell, it's free.
> >
>
> OK. It´s free. But still... free crap isn´t good just because it´s
> free. That rationale only goes so far! :)
Nobody said it was good, but Seren having it doesn't make him bad.
He's a Setite with superior thaumaturgy, who gives a shit if he even
has a special. Someone with SER who can clean the blood off a vamp in
combat sounds pretty good to me. With access to Form of Corruption,
Temptation, Theft of Vitae, Skin of the Adder, Apportation, B2W, Walk
of Flame and The Jones this is far from a fragile slithering snake.
Yet, he still has the ability to S:CE if need be. You use to have to
pay 10 for a vamp who could do this (and she had, lo and behold,a
crappy rarely used special). How often have you read Qufur's special
and wished it wasn't completey useless, is he bad because of it?
Hardly.
And you also state that Revelations of Desire is crap as well, are you
on Opium? (apparently not). Lalitha, Celine, Khalil, and Aabbt Kindred
are all a little scarier now. We know you'll block or deflect if they
open with a pre bleed action (which 2 of them can't do) but now if you
don't block you can get bled for 2 anyway. If you do block you can get
Venenationed and now Nerfertiti can bleed you for +3. If you bounce
her the +3 does not affect any other Methuselah, and you had better be
above 6 or she will Approximation of Loyalty and you will eat that
bleed, now that is Setite reponsible bleed! If you bouce one of the
little ones we can let the new Meth block and Venenate for later use.
We can save our stealth for when we want to pull the Enticement out on
the same turn (Nerfertiti untapping due to self Temptation or with her
new li'l buddy Mylan Horseed). Mylan, Revelations of Desire and
Approximation of Loyalty are just incredibly cool new weapons to add
to the Setite arsenal (not to mention the anarch cards). I can't
believe that you are the one who wrote the latest FoS newsletter.
Robert Scythe, the most prolific user of Serpentis/Setites in L.A. and
Orange Counties (did I mention Nehsi?)
halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote in message news:<20040525135024...@mb-m29.aol.com>...
> >Unless WW altered the design formula, a 7-cap "gets" 8 design points
> >worth of abilities. Meaning, that according to the formula the ability
> >actually costs one design point's worth.
>
>
> Correct. Seren IS spending a point on that special.
I thought the formula said:
1-4: Cap - 1 of Disciplines/Titles/Specials
5-7: Cap of Disciplines/Titles/Specials
8-10: Cap + 1 of Disciplines/Titles/Specials
11: Cap + 2 of Disciplines/Titles/Specials
Looking at the Group 3 7 caps on ELDB, I have to agree that they hover
around 7.5 points of stuff. Some, like Quentin King, are definite 7s.
Some, like Advanced Quentin, are clearly 8s. I guess vamp design is an
art, not a science.
Emmit Svenson wrote:
> I thought the formula said:
>
> 1-4: Cap - 1 of Disciplines/Titles/Specials
> 5-7: Cap of Disciplines/Titles/Specials
> 8-10: Cap + 1 of Disciplines/Titles/Specials
> 11: Cap + 2 of Disciplines/Titles/Specials
>
> Looking at the Group 3 7 caps on ELDB, I have to agree that they hover
> around 7.5 points of stuff. Some, like Quentin King, are definite 7s.
> Some, like Advanced Quentin, are clearly 8s. I guess vamp design is an
> art, not a science.
The Cap+2 line begins at 9. The Cap+1 line begins at 7.
1-4: Cap-1
5-6: Cap
7-8: Cap+1
9-10: Cap+2
11: Cap+3 = 14
But yes, it isn't a hard science. :-)
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
"Daneel" <dan...@eposta.hu> wrote in message
news:a23a105e.04052...@posting.google.com...
[ quoted text not captured ]
That's the point !
Not to count the augmented pool cost of supposed "free toys" like Weighted
walking sticks, Zip Guns or Molotov Cocktails. =)
"Daniel Figueiredo" <om...@uol.com.br> wrote in message
> > > Seren Sukardi (or Seren Sucks-Hard as he is already being called
> > > around here). Why bother with a special power that will never see any
> > > use?
(...)
> > > For added sarcasm, he gets superior Thaumaturgy, so whenever you
> > > think of using it, you also think: Press+Walk of Flame is SO MUCH
> > > easier, why bother yet again?
> >
> > Well, you don't have to have the Walk in your hand. And it can't be
> > prevented. I don't think you should try to build a deck around Seren's
> > power, but if you've got him in a deck with Apportations anyway, you
> > might get lucky. Oh, and did I mention it's free?
>
>> It愀 a free waste of ink that愀 what it is. Don愒 forget that not only
> is it hard for you to pull it off, it愀 EASY for your opponent to
> avoid.
Think Hidden Lurker !
don't tell me SER and OBF don't provide maneuvers !
you can even try repulsion (presence effect) to scare blockers =)
another simple thing is having a .44 on him, then press using any THA card,
or the press from a Harass.
it's that simple.
there are a lot of different ways to use his powers : again it is not
preventable, so very useful against a lot of fighters who don't use
grapples.