This was my first tournament, and my first time playing with the big
boys in Phoenix. My friend and I drove up from Tucson early Sunday
morning to arrive at Outpost for the game and were delighted to learn
that the Tournament would have 3 tables per round. Since this is an
unofficial report (the Tourney Organizer will probably post an
exhaustive and very interesting official one) I can only comment on
the games I played in. Fortunately I got to the final :-).
First Round: A four player table comprising of;
A Lasombra Stealth Bleed with some political actions deck (my
predator).
A Toreador Wall/Weapon deck (my prey)
An Assamite (with a smattering of Samedi) combat deck.
Within seconds of my game starting I heard my friend (playing an
assamite deck at another table) laughing. He had had meddling of
sesmith played on him in the second turn of the game! He then had to
put out the 10-cap assamite with 2 votes just to get rid of it. In my
game my Giovanni Call of the Hungry Salesman deck started rumbling and
bled my prey a couple of times. Unfortunately the Assamite/Samedi
deck took one turn too long to get rumbling and my predator stealth
bleed me into the ground, making me the first player at any table to
get ousted. Sucks to be me :-). I honestly thought the SB Lasombra
would sweep the table fairly quickly, but the Toreador deck (pretty
much just Francois Villon by himself for most of the game!!!!!) hung
in like it was the end of the world! An hour later all three decks
were still in the game. Eventually the Toreador crumbled and the
Lasombra finished off the Assamites quickly after that, but everyone
agreed that Francois deserved 'man of the match' awards for being
totally gung ho - even AFTER the assamites stole his flamethrower from
him. All in all a good tough game for the players left after I got
crushed :-).
Second Round:
Assamite/Samedi Deck (My Predator)(the same one in fact that had been
my grandpredator in the first round)
Assamite Deck (My Prey)(My friend from Tucson - also a combat deck, no
Samedi tho).
Another Deck which I cannot even remember what it was!
This game got me into the finals, and fairly easily too, due to my
friends rather foolish early contestation of an assamite my predator
put out. That weakened both my predator and prey. I squished my
friend early on, and then went on to sweep the table. A good game for
me to win like I did, but certainly not the most fun game in the
world. In fact we all played another game with different decks and
this was to actually cause me to almost win the final. I played a
gargoyle deck I was working on, and one of the players already in the
finals looked over to see what I was playing. He assumed we were
still playing the round, and noted I was playing gargoyles.
Final Round: The highest qualifier got to pick where the lowest
qualifier (that was me) sat. Since he thought I had a gargoyle deck
he chose my as his predator.
Ravnos weenie deck (My Prey) (A scary embrace/patshiv/tribute bloat
deck)
Ravnos kinda weenie deck with sensory deps (thank god THIS guy wasn't
my predator)
Brujah something deck - may have been europrince (My Predator)
A Lasombra Stealth Bleed with some political actions deck (my predator
from the first round - my grandpredator in the final).
My predator was shocked to learn I was a Giovanni Call S&B deck and
payed for his mistake by getting ousted by me fairly early on in the
game. However his main problem was that my predator (the brujah deck)
was getting pinned to the ground by his predator (the Lasombra deck)
and those two players were making deals and then breaking them,
creating a lot of antagonism at that end of the table. I kept up the
pressure on my prey, who had 3 Ravnos and 4 embraces out by the time I
ousted him with 10 bleed in one turn (and lucky I did it that turn
too!). However I was now bleeding the sensory dep ravnos deck and the
Lasombra SB deck which had an irrational fear of my deck (he kept
trying to negotiate with the Brujah deck to thump on me when he
should've killed the Brujah deck and killed me himself which he did
easily in the first round) actually bypassed his prey who was on 3
pool to bleed me for 7! In the end that did kill me, as my predator
the brujah bled me with all 3 of his minions to kill me while I was
tapped out. But the ravnos sense dep deck proceeded to oust the
lasombra leaving the Brujah and Ravnos sense dep deck in the game.
They decided to end the game as joint first (I personally thought the
sense dep deck was pretty scary and could've gone on to win), this
resulting in me coming second with one oust under my belt.
Thoughts from my first tournament: The Phoenix guys are by and large
a great group with some interesting decks. People were amazed that
there were 2 Assamite decksin the Tourney, along with 2 Ravnos decks.
The Assamites didn't do well but both Ravnos decks were VERY scary,
although quite rare heavy (the guy playing the mass embrace deck has
35,000 Vtes cards - my jaw fell off!).
It seems that the Bloodlines vamps are making more of an appearance in
decks than the minion cards are (in my first round everyone except the
Toreador deck was fielding a bloodline contingent at the 25% they were
allowed - Samedi for the Assamites, Kiasyd for the Lasombra and just
Le Dinh Tho for my Gio deck). I think that Bloodlines now really
helps some of the more unusual decks. The tournament was a lot of
fun, and kudos goes to Scott (I believe) the tourney organizer who was
a great guy and very on top of everything.
"swcrusader" <swcru...@crownambassador.com> wrote in message
news:95cd23dc.02021...@posting.google.com...
[snip]
> However I was now bleeding the sensory dep ravnos deck and the
> Lasombra SB deck which had an irrational fear of my deck (he kept
> trying to negotiate with the Brujah deck to thump on me when he
> should've killed the Brujah deck and killed me himself which he did
> easily in the first round) actually bypassed his prey who was on 3
> pool to bleed me for 7!
How'd he do that? Did the Brujah deflect to you or something?
Surely he wasn't playing Kindred Spirits with Lasombra? :-)
> but both Ravnos decks were VERY scary,
> although quite rare heavy (the guy playing the mass embrace deck has
> 35,000 Vtes cards - my jaw fell off!).
Hmm, was that Fred Scott by any chance? (Hi Fred!)
They say he really likes Embraces. :-)
Thanks for the report! Very interesting.
Josh
cons to the quence
>Lasombra SB deck which had an irrational fear of my deck (he kept
>trying to negotiate with the Brujah deck to thump on me when he
>should've killed the Brujah deck and killed me himself which he did
>easily in the first round) actually bypassed his prey who was on 3
>pool to bleed me for 7! In the end that did kill me, as my predator
>the brujah bled me with all 3 of his minions to kill me while I was
>tapped out. But the ravnos sense dep deck proceeded to oust the
>lasombra leaving the Brujah and Ravnos sense dep deck in the game.
>They decided to end the game as joint first (I personally thought the
>sense dep deck was pretty scary and could've gone on to win), this
>resulting in me coming second with one oust under my belt.
How did they manage to end the game as "joint first?" It'd be *extremely
extremely* rare for two decks to end up joint first. Not only would they have
to have the same number of Table Wins and VP's (including in the Final Round),
but they'd also have to manage tying in Tournament Points, which is really
hard...
Halcyan 2
"Halcyan 2" <halc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020212175534...@mb-mv.aol.com...
[ quoted text not captured ]
In my opinion, this would be impossible.
For the top 5 players in the tournament, they are RANKED. This means they
cannot be tied in rating going INTO the finals. If two (or more) of the top
five players in your tournament are tied, you are directed by the tournament
rules to use a random method (i.e. rolling a die) to determine their rank.
Having said this, the tournament rules also state:
3.8.5. Final Round Scoring
The player with the highest total of Victory Points from the final round only
is the tournament winner. The player with the next highest total of Victory
Points from the final round only is the second place winner, and so on. In the
event of a tie, the players' rankings at the end of the preliminary rounds will
be the deciding tiebreaker.
So, assuming this was a sanctioned tournament, ending up with more than a
single winner would be impossible. The tournament would be fraudulent,
wouldn't it? LSJ?
>
> Halcyan 2
--
Kevin M., Prince of Madison, WI (USA)
"Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
"Kevin M." wrote:
> "Halcyan 2" <halc...@aol.com> wrote in message> > How did they manage to end the game as "joint first?"> In my opinion, this would be impossible.
>
> For the top 5 players in the tournament, they are RANKED. This means they
> cannot be tied in rating going INTO the finals. If two (or more) of the top
> five players in your tournament are tied, you are directed by the tournament
> rules to use a random method (i.e. rolling a die) to determine their rank.
Correct.
> Having said this, the tournament rules also state:
>
> 3.8.5. Final Round Scoring
> The player with the highest total of Victory Points from the final round only
> is the tournament winner. The player with the next highest total of Victory
> Points from the final round only is the second place winner, and so on. In the
> event of a tie, the players' rankings at the end of the preliminary rounds will
> be the deciding tiebreaker.
>
> So, assuming this was a sanctioned tournament, ending up with more than a
> single winner would be impossible. The tournament would be fraudulent,
> wouldn't it? LSJ?
It's far too early and I'm far too unaware of the actual facts of the matter to
come anywhere near a declaration of "fraudulent". I believe Todd and the
tournament organizer will resolve this matter appropriately.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Joshua Duffin wrote:
>
> "swcrusader" <swcru...@crownambassador.com> wrote in message
> news:95cd23dc.02021...@posting.google.com...
>
> [snip]
>
> > However I was now bleeding the sensory dep ravnos deck and the
> > Lasombra SB deck which had an irrational fear of my deck (he kept
> > trying to negotiate with the Brujah deck to thump on me when he
> > should've killed the Brujah deck and killed me himself which he did
> > easily in the first round) actually bypassed his prey who was on 3
> > pool to bleed me for 7!
>
> How'd he do that? Did the Brujah deflect to you or something?
Exactly. Cameron (who played the Lasombra deck), fearing retribution
from Mike (playing the Brujah combat deck) was deflecting my bleeds from
himself, past Mike Drigant, to "swcrusader" (who apparently is another
Mike). I don't think he did that for more than two or three a turn,
though - certainly never 7 in the same turn. I must be forgetting the
sequence of playing involving swcrusader's ousting. I thought Mike
Drigant finished him off with a Legal Manipulations or something.
> Surely he wasn't playing Kindred Spirits with Lasombra? :-)
That would be !Malk, I believe. No, Cameron didn't have any bleed-who-
you-want cards that I can recall.
> > but both Ravnos decks were VERY scary,
> > although quite rare heavy (the guy playing the mass embrace deck has
> > 35,000 Vtes cards - my jaw fell off!).
>
> Hmm, was that Fred Scott by any chance? (Hi Fred!)
Hi.
Nope - it was actually Daniel Poppe, who likes to buy large, cheap
Jyhad collections on EBAY. He's a "grab-bag" sort of guy. I guess it's
worked well for him.
> They say he really likes Embraces. :-)
So does Daniel. He's about the only guy I've ever met that likes
overwhelming prey with shear numbers even more than I do.
(By the way, I _did_ have a couple Embraced on the table at the end
of the game. Just not as many as Daniel. :) )
Halcyan 2 wrote:
> > But the ravnos sense dep deck proceeded to oust the
> >lasombra leaving the Brujah and Ravnos sense dep deck in the game.
> >They decided to end the game as joint first (I personally thought the
> >sense dep deck was pretty scary and could've gone on to win), this
> >resulting in me coming second with one oust under my belt.
>> How did they manage to end the game as "joint first?" It'd be *extremely
> extremely* rare for two decks to end up joint first. Not only would they have
> to have the same number of Table Wins and VP's (including in the Final Round),
> but they'd also have to manage tying in Tournament Points, which is really
> hard...
Actually, we never thought of that. I offered Mike Drigant the mutual
withdrawal assuming we'd tie for first. But you're correct, I would have won
on tournament game wins (I had one and Mike D. got into the finals on victory
points alone). (I certainly would have let Mike have the difference in prizes
between second and tied for first, though.) In any event, the original poster
was incorrect - Mike did not accept my offer. We went on to play a long and
tense finish in which I eventually triumphed basically because Mike couldn't
draw a Wake, an extra bleed enhancer, or any of two or three other things he
could have finished me off with. Needless to say, I made enough mistakes to
deserve losing. I forgot to take Hunting Ground blood on a couple consecutive
turns, even forgot to take the Edge pool on one turn - all this when the
difference of a single pool or even a single blood would have been rather
important.
Fred
LSJ wrote:
>
> "Kevin M." wrote:
> > So, assuming this was a sanctioned tournament, ending up with more than a
> > single winner would be impossible. The tournament would be fraudulent,
> > wouldn't it? LSJ?
>
> It's far too early and I'm far too unaware of the actual facts of the matter to
> come anywhere near a declaration of "fraudulent". I believe Todd and the
> tournament organizer will resolve this matter appropriately.
Doesn't matter. It didn't happen as reported in the first post. See my other
post in this thread for clarification.
Fred
But the ravnos sense dep deck proceeded to oust the
> >lasombra leaving the Brujah and Ravnos sense dep deck in the game.
> >They decided to end the game as joint first (I personally thought the
> >sense dep deck was pretty scary and could've gone on to win), this
> >resulting in me coming second with one oust under my belt.
>
>
> How did they manage to end the game as "joint first?" It'd be *extremely
> extremely* rare for two decks to end up joint first. Not only would they have
> to have the same number of Table Wins and VP's (including in the Final Round),
> but they'd also have to manage tying in Tournament Points, which is really
> hard...
>
> Halcyan 2
Well, as far as I knew the VPs in the final game were the only
important ones - and they both had just the one. It also was
plausible they had the same number of table wins/vps as well from the
earlier rounds. I had left the table to do some trading after I was
ousted (had to drive back) and I was under the impression that they
did decide between themselves to call it a draw. I took no issue with
this, as did no-one else there since the Bloodlines was not an
'official' tourney. To be honest I have little time for rules lawyers
and much more time for people wanting to get into the spirit of the
game and have fun. Even at a serious tournament I would have the same
attitude (within reason). To me it seems pretty darn honorable to
decide to call it even. And I wasn't going to look second place
instead of third in the mouth either :-)
> Exactly. Cameron (who played the Lasombra deck),
This is odd, if I may say so. As I was sure I was playing Lasombra in
Madison, not Phoenix this weekend. Apparently someone has altered my
memories of the event. Semsith was probably meddling with me.
Storyline aside, what kind of Lasombra deck was this doppleganger
playing?
Cameron, who played the Lasombra deck
Cameron wrote:
>
> > Exactly. Cameron (who played the Lasombra deck),
>
> This is odd, if I may say so. As I was sure I was playing Lasombra in
> Madison, not Phoenix this weekend. Apparently someone has altered my
> memories of the event. Semsith was probably meddling with me.
That would be Cameron Bell, our local Sabbat fanatic. (He's definitely
got the boots for it. :) )
> Storyline aside, what kind of Lasombra deck was this doppleganger
> playing?
Actually, I would be hard pressed to describe it because I wasn't
watching him play it closely enough. He bounced my bleeds on several
occasions. If he got into combat with me I didn't recall it and that
would be with good reason: most of my combats involved saying, "Before
range, I play Illusions of the Kindred.", and then my opponents trade
punches with the Illusion. Or not, if they have a maneuver or a dodge
or something. He bled Mike for 5 or 6 a couple of times, and Governed
backwards a couple of times so I guess there was a definitely stealth/
bleed aspect to the deck. That's all I can recall.
Fred
<snip>
Exactly. Cameron (who played the Lasombra deck), fearing retribution
from Mike (playing the Brujah combat deck) was deflecting my bleeds
from
himself, past Mike Drigant, to "swcrusader" (who apparently is another
Mike). I don't think he did that for more than two or three a turn,
though - certainly never 7 in the same turn. I must be forgetting the
sequence of playing involving swcrusader's ousting. I thought Mike
Drigant finished him off with a Legal Manipulations or something.
<end o snip>
He did that deflection thing a couple of times, usually I managed to
send them back him way. Mike actually finished me off by bleeding me
with all three of his minions for one each (pretty ignominious
really!). I would've liked to have seen how his deck worked as it
didn't get much of a go in the game before I got ousted. Cameron
seemed to fear me more than he actually feared Mike as he constantly
tried to bleed me directly instead of Mike - something I found rather
frustrating. He could've easily killed Mike maybe losing a vamp or
two, and then he would've probably been able to oust me too and gain
another VP and a great position.
<snip>
Actually, we never thought of that. I offered Mike Drigant the mutual
withdrawal assuming we'd tie for first. But you're correct, I would
have won
on tournament game wins (I had one and Mike D. got into the finals on
victory
points alone). (I certainly would have let Mike have the difference
in prizes
between second and tied for first, though.) In any event, the
original poster
was incorrect - Mike did not accept my offer. We went on to play a
long and
tense finish in which I eventually triumphed basically because Mike
couldn't
draw a Wake, an extra bleed enhancer, or any of two or three other
things he
could have finished me off with. Needless to say, I made enough
mistakes to
deserve losing. I forgot to take Hunting Ground blood on a couple
consecutive
turns, even forgot to take the Edge pool on one turn - all this when
the
difference of a single pool or even a single blood would have been
rather
important.
<end o snip>
On the whole though Fred did deserve to win, as I never thought Mikes
deck had a serious chance. If the rest of the game was that thrilling
Mike must've really gotten it going - pity I was busy trading! :-).
Congrats to Fred, I hope I never see another sensory dep (and I only
had one played on me!!!).
PS - Cameron (in Madison), the Cameron in Phoenix was playing a fairly
standard stealth bleed lasombra deck with a smattering of Kiasyd and
some political actions. From what I saw though he had *no* combat
defense at all, which surprised me. He was very lucky that he didn't
get drilled by a combat deck in the rounds that he played, but the
straight combat decks didn't seem to do that well this tournament.
Umm... Fred ended up with 3 victory points. He ousted Mike after a long
struggle. If I'm not mistaken, Fred's Ravnos had 1 pool left when he
ousted the Brujah. Mike D. (Who builds his decks out of my collection)
immediately asked to come over the next weekend and build a new
deck--apparently runner up gets decks torn apart).
The Ravnos deck _I_ was playing was the one that had all the weenies in
it. Its a scary fun deck that just dies to light intercept. I figure
I'll give a little different tournament perspective with a report from
Phoenix.
The first game started with Mike D's Brujah deck in the first position,
Chris's deck accross table and Scott's Giovanni as my predator. My deck
requires about 3 turns to get rolling and Scott appeared to be willing
to give them to me. The Brujah were trying to get a quick VP before I
got rolling (instead of pummeling me which is what I would have done).
Anyway, I had my minions out and lots of kids, but couldn't draw a
Tribute to the Master to save my life. Suddenly Scott bleeds me for 4
and I'm down to 5 pool. Mike feels he's close to a VP and I feel like I
can play my 'week of nightmares' and oust Mike only to fall right
afterwords. Mike asks me to hold off for a number of turns in exchange
for not rushing me, ever. We end up splitting the table 2-2. I drew a
tribute shortly afterword. This is when I was told that the tournament
rules changed a while back to make Table Victories more important than
VPs. Oops.
The second round put me again in the fourth position with the !NOS
Caliean I block everything massive intercept deck as my prey. Oh no.
Fred's Sensory Dep Ravnos were accross table and I had a predator I'm
sure.. I think it was Lasombra, but I don't remember. I'm rolling out
with the kids and the Lasombra is hammering me hard. I'm down to 4
pool. I do have 7 minions though... I decide I won't survive another
turn, thump down the week of nightmares and attack with bleeds for 2.
The !Nos only had one untapped minion (without ani) and Caliean was
tapped. I was hoping Caliean couldn't untap more than once. To my
shock, Caliean couldn't untap at all and I'm up to 10 pool. Fred and my
Ravnos start feeding off one another. I win that little war as I have
twice as many minions. After a one round respite, the Lasombra come
back to bleed me with fierceness and i'm down to 3 pool. I go all out
on Fred and bleed him out. 9 pool. The Lasombra throw caution to the
wind and get me to 2 pool before I easily oust him back. Week of
Nightmares for the win!
The final was a total train wreck. My deck makes kids fast enough I
wasn't worried about Gargoyle combat... and I was told by someone how
amazed they were a Gargoyle deck made the final. Oops. Instead it was
a very nasty quick bleed Giovanni deck. I don't realize this until I've
spent my 4 pool on the assault rifle. No week of nightmares to the
rescue this time... and the Tributes didn't come until late. I went out
with 6 VPs on the day, which left me first going into the final table
but only 4th on the day as I had no VPs at the final table. I never saw
an early Ravnos Carnival in 3 games which hurts as they're supposed to
pay for the embraced.
For those curious and because I've never posted a deck before... I'm
going to post the Ravnos deck I played. The only time its failed to
garner a VP was the final of the storyline tourney (figures). I made
several key mistakes tho and really didn't deserve to do better. Its a
lot of fun, but improvement ideas are always welcome.
'Carnival Nightmare'
Ravnos Bloat
Andrei Puxon 5 chi for
Anka, Priest... 4 chi
Ghivran Dalaal 5 chi FOR
Lazar 3 for
2x Salbatore 4 CHI for
2x Sasha 2 chi
Sennuwy 4 chi for
Spleen 2 chi for
Tsigane 3 chi
Vedel 3 chi for
Masters:
1 Chimistry
3 Fortitude
1 Fortune Teller's Shop
2 Parthenon
4 Ravnos' Carnival
10 Tribute to the Master
1 Week of Nightmares (Only own 1 :( )
5 Amria
3 Assault Rifle
3 Computer Hacking
12 Embrace
5 Fata Morgan
3 Freak Drive
1 JS Simmons
5 Mirror Image
15 Patshiv
4 Saturday Night Special
2 Sensory Deprivation
--
80
I notice a couple things. I'd taken 10 freak drives out for another
deck that weren't in here. (oops). Also, I thought I only had 2
assault rifles and was debating going down to 1. 3 is too many. It has
very little stealth, but it ususally has enough. Shrug...it wasn't good
enough.
BTW_ Fred, the only thing I like better than playing with weenie swarms
is playing with giant vampires who do things multiple times.
Daniel
[ quoted text not captured ]