Terror Frenzy vs Before combat

I was trying to find an answer to this one as I remember reading something on combat sequencing that might give me an answer, but alas I can't find anything on either google or in the official online rulebook so here it is anyway: Vampire A bleeds Meth X. Meth X blocks with Vampire B who has ANI. Vampire A plays (in order) Trap, Inner Essence, Horrid Form, Horrid Form Vampire B wants to play terror Fenzy at ANI. How do we handle this: 1) Vampire A, since he is the acting minion, can play as many prerange cards as he wants before Vampire B can play a single prerange card or 2) Vampire A, being the acting minion plays one card, then Vampire B gets the opportunity to play his Terror Frenzy and then Vampire A can play his second prerange card (which now makes him burn an extra blood due to Terror Frenzy). Ie, the opposing vampires take turns playing prerange.

On May 11, 6:07 pm, "Izaak" <.> wrote: > Vampire A bleeds Meth X. > Meth X blocks with Vampire B who has ANI. > > Vampire A plays (in order) Trap, Inner Essence, Horrid Form, Horrid Form > > Vampire B wants to play terror Fenzy at ANI. > > How do we handle this: In this case, all the cards each person wishes to play fall in the same timing slots (before range is determined), so timing is determined soley by the "impulse" The acting Meth has the impulse by default. Until he yields priority, he may play as many cards as he wishes before Meth B (the reacting/blocking Meth) may play any. When he yields priority, the impulse passes and reacting Meth may play cards until he wishes to play no more. The impulse then passes back to the acting Meth for more pre-range cards, and back again when done (or none are played). The option to play cards passes back and forth until both of the players have declined to play cards in back-to-back windows of opportunity - at which point that segment of the combat is over, and you may move to the next segment (in this case, range determination). NOTE: You may not pass the impulse, watch your opponent also pass, then say "Aha, now I'll play XXXX" - because you have both passed in back-to-back windows of opportunity.

Darby Keeney wrote: > On May 11, 6:07 pm, "Izaak" <.> wrote: >> Vampire A bleeds Meth X. >> Meth X blocks with Vampire B who has ANI. >> >> Vampire A plays (in order) Trap, Inner Essence, Horrid Form, Horrid Form >> >> Vampire B wants to play terror Fenzy at ANI. >> >> How do we handle this: > > > In this case, all the cards each person wishes to play fall in the > same timing slots (before range is determined), so timing is > determined soley by the "impulse" > > The acting Meth has the impulse by default. Until he yields > priority, he may play as many cards as he wishes before Meth B (the > reacting/blocking Meth) may play any. > > When he yields priority, the impulse passes and reacting Meth may play > cards until he wishes to play no more. Darby, I may be incorrect (I usually am), but I believe that as soon as the reacting Meth plays a card, the impulse immediately returns to the acting Meth, who can either choose to play a card or effect, or yield, at which point the impulse then returns to the reactor, and so forth until both actor and reactor have passed. The rest looks ok, but I guess we wait for LSJ. best - chris > > The impulse then passes back to the acting Meth for more pre-range > cards, and back again when done (or none are played). > > The option to play cards passes back and forth until both of the > players have declined to play cards in back-to-back windows of > opportunity - at which point that segment of the combat is over, and > you may move to the next segment (in this case, range determination). > > NOTE: You may not pass the impulse, watch your opponent also pass, > then say "Aha, now I'll play XXXX" - because you have both passed in > back-to-back windows of opportunity. > -- Super Fun Cards http://myworld.ebay.com/superfuncards/ auct...@superfuncards.com

librarian wrote: > Darby Keeney wrote: >> In this case, all the cards each person wishes to play fall in the >> same timing slots (before range is determined), so timing is >> determined soley by the "impulse" >> >> The acting Meth has the impulse by default. Until he yields >> priority, he may play as many cards as he wishes before Meth B (the >> reacting/blocking Meth) may play any. >> >> When he yields priority, the impulse passes and reacting Meth may play >> cards until he wishes to play no more. > > > Darby, I may be incorrect (I usually am), but I believe that as soon as > the reacting Meth plays a card, the impulse immediately returns to the > acting Meth, who can either choose to play a card or effect, or yield, > at which point the impulse then returns to the reactor, and so forth > until both actor and reactor have passed. The rest looks ok, but I > guess we wait for LSJ. Correct. When any effect is played by any Methuselah, the impulse order resets, and the acting Methuselah gets the impulse.

[ quoted text not captured ] Hmm. Now *I'm* confused :) So, given that Card A, B,C,D and E are all card that fall into the same timing slot ("play before range", for example): - Acting player Joe plays Card A and B (and passes impulse to other player) - Non-acting player Bob plays Card C, and would like to also play Card D, but... - Impulse automatically shifts back to Joe, who can play card E before Bob can play D So in effect, the acting player can wait to play a certain card in response to cards played by the non-acting player. Is this correct? Also, how about this? - Joe (acting) plays Card A and B (passes impulse) - Bob does not play any cards - Joe plays Card C In other words, can the acting player continue playing cards in the same time slot "in response" to the other player not playing any cards at all?

[ quoted text not captured ] Yes. But if non-acting players also pass, then the acting player's "wait" becomes "doesn't play", since the impulse never comes back to him in that window. That is, there is no "wait", there is only "pass" and "play". > Also, how about this? > > - Joe (acting) plays Card A and B (passes impulse) > - Bob does not play any cards > - Joe plays Card C No. See Darby's initial response. > In other words, can the acting player continue playing cards in the > same time slot "in response" to the other player not playing any cards > at all? No. Otherwise, the game would stall and impulse would never move from the acting Methuselah (as it keeps getting reset to him every time he passes).

In message <1178964046....@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, Petri Wessman <or...@orava.org> writes: >So, given that Card A, B,C,D and E are all card that fall into the >same timing slot ("play before range", for example): > >- Acting player Joe plays Card A and B (and passes impulse to other >player) >- Non-acting player Bob plays Card C, and would like to also play Card >D, but... >- Impulse automatically shifts back to Joe, who can play card E before >Bob can play D Yes. >So in effect, the acting player can wait to play a certain card in >response to cards played by the non-acting player. Is this correct? In effect? No, that's *exactly* what happens. Whenever a card is played or an effect is used, the impulse goes back to the acting Methuselah. >Also, how about this? > >- Joe (acting) plays Card A and B (passes impulse) >- Bob does not play any cards >- Joe plays Card C > >In other words, can the acting player continue playing cards in the >same time slot "in response" to the other player not playing any cards >at all? If those are all in the same timing slot, no. For example: - if I pass the impulse to you during pre-range and you decline to play any effects, I cannot then play Carrion Crows - if I pass the impulse to you during maneuvers and you decline to maneuver, I cannot then maneuver to long - if I decline to prevent damage and let you prevent damage and you don't, I can't prevent damage - if I decline to generate additional strikes and you don't generate them, I can't generate any. (For these last two, see <URL:http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/adf 0d4634adddc0c> and the accompanying thread, as they were reversals.) -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.