Any use of Miguel Cordovera?

Is there any way to use this vamp? Miguel Cordovera Tremere Capacity: 6 AUS DOM POT THA Group: 5 Camarilla: During your predator's minion phase, your predator may burn a pool to untap and take control of Miguel until the end of the minion phase. +1 bleed. Set: Keepers of Tradition. Thanks in advance.

as...@hotmail.com: [ quoted text not captured ] I think Diamond Thunderbolt can help

[ quoted text not captured ] Clan Impersonation Type: Action Cost: 2 blood +1 stealth action. Choose a clan and put this card on the acting vampire. This vampire is considered to be of the chosen clan instead of his or her original clan (if any). This vampire can burn this card as an action. Reindoctrination Type: Action Requires: Tremere/Tremere antitribu Cost: 2 blood +1 stealth action. Choose a younger Gargoyle. That Gargoyle loses any existing slave status and becomes a slave to this acting vampire's clan. Take control of the Gargoyle if another Methuselah controls him or her, move the Gargoyle to your ready region, and untap him or her. I'm sure you can do the math.

[ quoted text not captured ] His flaw can actually be used as an advantage. Barring your predator playing a rush deck, you can expect your predator to spend the pool to take him and bleed you for at least 2. So pack lots and lots of deflections, and by bounceing Miguel's bleed you equivalently get a BONUS bleed for 2 against your prey.

[ quoted text not captured ] Heidelberg, Red list and some agg is also good...... Make him red list after he gets taken. If he does not get taken, he just bleeds for 5, repeatedly. Either way, garvy. If he gets taken, biscuits too! Add in that silly ally that swims upstream....

On Apr 2, 3:02 pm, Blooded Sand <sandm...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Miguel Cordovera > > > Tremere > > > Capacity: 6 > > > AUS DOM POT THA > > > Group: 5 > > > Camarilla: During your predator's minion phase, your predator may burn > > > a pool to untap and take control of Miguel until the end of the minion > > > phase. +1 bleed. > > > Set: Keepers of Tradition. > > Heidelberg, Red list and some agg is also good...... > Make him red list after he gets taken. If he does not get taken, he > just bleeds for 5, repeatedly. > Either way, garvy. If he gets taken, biscuits too! > Add in that silly ally that swims upstream.... He's only taken for a short while though, so making him redlist would hurt you more than anyone else I think,

On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 05:41:48 -0700 (PDT), henrik <www.h...@gmail.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Well, I'm sort of okay-ish with Math, but I'm not sure about the Physics of this example. :) Miguel's Text is not overwritten, so your predator can still gravitate him into his ready region whenever he desires. So if he wants a rescue, or just wants to lunge and remove a potential blocker, he can just take him even as a Slave. All this for 2 actions and 4 blood... To mitigate (not eliminate) the drawback of a vampire who isn't terribly superior to begin with (he is a nice 8-cap and a hideous drawback packed into a 6-cap). -- Regards, Daneel

[ quoted text not captured ] I'd say... if you play lots of bounce, and are generally a bleed deck, you might use the guy, as a way to do pool damage to your predator and potentially ensure the bleeds to bounce. However, it's risky in the sense that 1-turn control many times ends up diablerizing and burning or doing some daredevil feat like going for the Path of Metamorphosis... -- Regards, Daneel

[ quoted text not captured ] One thing I noticed about this guy is that he shares his 4 superior disciplines with Cesewayo. In a No Secrets From Cesewayo Deck, he might be worth trying, since you can guarantee blocking him in an emergency, which makes it less desirable to pay the pool to take him. (Yes, I know, this idea sucks.)

[ quoted text not captured ] Well, it looks to me like you make Miguel a Gargoyle. So your pred can't use him to do D actions unless you have a Tremere (presumably, or maybe !Tre). And as soon as the other Meth controls him, you take control of him and move him to your ready region, and untap him. > > All this for 2 actions and 4 blood... To mitigate (not eliminate) the > drawback of a vampire who isn't terribly superior to begin with (he is > a nice 8-cap and a hideous drawback packed into a 6-cap). > Agreed there. best - chris

On Apr 2, 12:22 pm, librarian <aucti...@superfuncards.com> wrote: > Daneel wrote: > > On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 05:41:48 -0700 (PDT), henrik <www.hen...@gmail.com> [ quoted text not captured ] Umm... Miguel's disad doesn't let the other methuselah *keep* him - he only gets him for the turn, and since you can't act during another methuselah's turn (with the 2 exceptions that require you to wait until that meth is done acting anyway), you don't have any chance to use Reindoctrination to take control of him, unless he's, like, Mind Raped or something.

On 2 huhti, 20:57, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote: > Umm... Miguel's disad doesn't let the other methuselah *keep* him - > he only gets him for the turn, and since you can't act during another > methuselah's turn (with the 2 exceptions that require you to wait > until that meth is done acting anyway), you don't have any chance to > use Reindoctrination to take control of him, unless he's, like, Mind > Raped or something. I assume Reindoctrination is there to make Miguel a Slave. AFAIK Slave- status doesn't come with Impersonation.

[ quoted text not captured ] I was responding specifically to this: "And as soon as the other Meth controls him, you take control of him and move him to your ready region, and untap him. " That can basically never happen without some other form of minion- stealing, in which case it would apply equally-well to any vampire, not just Miguel. I get why you'd want to make Miguel a slave (and untap him), but as Daneel mentioned, 2 actions and 4 blood to mitigate the disadvantage of a 6 cap who is no better than the average 8 cap.... doesn't really seem worth it.

On Apr 2, 8:26 pm, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote: > That can basically never happen without some other form of minion- > stealing, in which case it would apply equally-well to any vampire, > not just Miguel. I get why you'd want to make Miguel a slave (and > untap him), but as Daneel mentioned, 2 actions and 4 blood to mitigate > the disadvantage of a 6 cap who is no better than the average 8 > cap.... doesn't really seem worth it. That was kinda the point from the start. The vamp's not really worth it. Unless you're playing a really weird deck you won't get much more out of him than some other 6cap.

[ quoted text not captured ] POT DOM with inscriptions to give the other POT DOM vampires Rutor's Hands?

[ quoted text not captured ] Are you serious with this? Isn´t is much more likely he goes anarch/ diablerises somebody/removes Smiling Jack/etc, especially when the meth notices you have "pack lots and lots of deflections"?

[ quoted text not captured ] Exactelly my point. THIS VAMPIRE SUCKS. LSJ, why did you invent this shitty vamp?

[ quoted text not captured ] More likely to take those other actions with requirements than to bleed? No. He can only go anarch once, which means your predator spends a pool to burn 2 blood off of him - big deal. Removing Smiling Jack on your predator's turn means you don't have to deal with it, which is great (assuming you're smart enough not to play a Miguel/Smiling Jack deck, unless you've got some other crazy idea up your sleeve). Diablerie might be an option, might not. Even if it's an option and isn't blocked, that doesn't mean Miguel automatically burns...

On Apr 2, 9:08 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > POT DOM with inscriptions to give the other POT DOM vampires Rutor's > Hands? Using a crap vampire to play a crap card to allow other decent vampires to use a crap card? Yeah, right..

[ quoted text not captured ] Why not? What would have been the alternative? Another Selena, perhaps? Perhaps it is better there are vampire who are food for thought, even though they might still end up being crap.

[ quoted text not captured ] Rutor's Hand is awesome!

as...@hotmail.com wrote: >Exactelly my point. THIS VAMPIRE SUCKS. LSJ, why did you invent this >shitty vamp? So Ashur, when did you stop beating your wife? -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

James Coupe wrote: > as...@hotmail.com wrote: >> Exactelly my point. THIS VAMPIRE SUCKS. LSJ, why did you invent this >> shitty vamp? > > So Ashur, when did you stop beating your wife? > I'll just heat up the stove, eh? Put some of these corn kernels in the pan, a bit of oil, put the lid on... best- chris

[ quoted text not captured ] This is true, most decks just wouldn't be prepared to take advantage of his action (which costs one pool) in any other way than bleeding. Maybe POT or THA rush-combat if you're unlucky. Your predator will definitely not take control of Miguel if he is at zero blood, unless they have Life in the City or Heidelburg or whatever. Perhaps a strategy can be to end all your turns with him tapped and empty, and next untap give him a blood with a hunting ground, which he should spend on something. Would your predator take control if he's in torpor? Probably not, unless they really want that +1 stealth to diablerize him. Tremere can use the Chantry every turn, so there might be a trick deck somewhere in there. If you can't do either of those, Diamond Thunderbolt or simply deflecting his bleed for 2 (or more) work just as well. It can be a bluffing game, and eventually your predator will be too discouraged to try spending a pool for MAYBE an extra bleed, but usually nothing.

On 2 Apr, 22:40, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > as...@hotmail.com wrote: > >Exactelly my point. THIS VAMPIRE SUCKS. LSJ, why did you invent this > >shitty vamp? > > So Ashur, when did you stop beating your wife? That´s not your business. I asked a simple question (although based on my opinion. I guess I am allowed both having an opinion and asking questions). Stick to the subject?

[ quoted text not captured ] Do you have a wall that needs covering? Do you have a child who loves collages? You do! Then do we have Vampire: The Eternal Struggle cards for you!! You can give them Dramatic Upheavals! Miguel Cordoveras! Protect Thine Owns! They will have endless hours of cutting, pasting and affixing their fingers and ears to bits of newspaper right in the comfort of your own living room! And do they save space on storage!? You can fit hundreds of them in a space the size of a shoebox! So give your children hours of fun! Give them Crap Vampire: The Eternal Struggle Cards!!

as...@hotmail.com wrote: >On 2 Apr, 22:40, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: >> as...@hotmail.com wrote: >> >Exactelly my point. THIS VAMPIRE SUCKS. LSJ, why did you invent this >> >shitty vamp? >> >> So Ashur, when did you stop beating your wife? > >That愀 not your business. I asked a simple question (although based on >my opinion. I guess I am allowed both having an opinion and asking >questions). Stick to the subject? *How* you ask a question is as important as the question you ask. Have you considered that you're asking a question that is both a loaded question and a leading question? You'll get better discussions if you ask better questions. Example of a fairly open-ended question that isn't hostile: Hey LSJ, were there any reasons for this design? Some backstory, perhaps? Example of a bad question that is actively hostile: THIS VAMPIRE SUCKS. LSJ, why did you invent this shitty vamp? I can't think of a single example of LSJ responding to hostile, accusatory questions of this nature. I point this out, because it might be interesting to hear LSJ's thoughts - but that's unlikely to happen when you're acting like a douche. [ quoted text not captured ]

On 3 Apr, 01:09, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > as...@hotmail.com wrote: > >On 2 Apr, 22:40, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > >> as...@hotmail.com wrote: > >> >Exactelly my point. THIS VAMPIRE SUCKS. LSJ, why did you invent this > >> >shitty vamp? > > >> So Ashur, when did you stop beating your wife? > > >That´s not your business. I asked a simple question (although based on > >my opinion. I guess I am allowed both having an opinion and asking > >questions). Stick to the subject? > > *How* you ask a question is as important as the question you ask. No it is not. And you are not my dad. You don´t have an opinion on the actual subject do you? Just wan´t to bug me?

XZealot wrote: > On Apr 2, 3:22 pm, henrik <www.hen...@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Apr 2, 9:08 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: >> >>> POT DOM with inscriptions to give the other POT DOM vampires Rutor's >>> Hands? >> >> Using a crap vampire to play a crap card to allow other decent >> vampires to use a crap card? LOL !! >> >> Yeah, right.. > > Rutor's Hand is awesome! It is. But : a) there already is a good Pot / Dom / Tha crypt b) a few Tha skills and THA giving equipments is a much easier way to go c) if it's only for the untap, there is also an excellent Pot / Dom / For crypt, and a For skill gives immediate access ton inf Freak Drive. OTOH Miguel's special isn't that bad if you can "take" a few bleeds for 2. For instance, it would be better in a "reduce bleed" deck than in a bouncing deck (which are better, but hey...). But everybody plays Dominate, so it's still risky... ------ Trent is GOD ! Orpheus

as...@hotmail.com wrote: >On 3 Apr, 01:09, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: >> *How* you ask a question is as important as the question you ask. > >No it is not. Nonsense of the highest order. I cannot remember seeing LSJ answer a hostile question of the sort you ask. I can remember seeing LSJ answer a variety of polite questions. You don't think there's a difference? You may have noticed that LSJ is posting away in other threads where questions are being asked, and hasn't responded to your question. Do you wonder why that might be? The evidence seems to be on my side here. >You don´t have an opinion on the >actual subject do you? Just wan´t to bug me? If having it pointed out that your question almost certainly won't get answered bugs you, that's your problem, not mine. If you want to ask hostile questions badly and pretend that the way your questions are asked doesn't matter, that's your problem, not mine. I do have an opinion on the subject, but expressing it would largely be repeating what other people have already said - so not a lot of point doing that. However, I would quite like to see what LSJ's thoughts were, but that's pretty unlikely with your shouting and stamping. I point this out in the hope that, in the future, when an interesting line of discussion comes up, you won't feel the need to yell hostile, accusatory questions which will shut off any likelihood of them actually being answered. Either you want the question answered - in which case, you're going completely the wrong way about it - or you just want to yell abuse at LSJ, which is dumb. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Oh hi chris, just thought i'd pop around, bring a comfy chair and some coke and... oh hey cool, you're making popcorn!

On 3 Apr, 11:46, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: Thanks for the lecture in social behavior dad.

On Apr 3, 8:55 am, as...@hotmail.com wrote: > Thanks for the lecture in social behavior dad. Sometimes, it is good when someone acts like your dad. Or a dad. Really. -Peter

XZealot wrote: > On Apr 2, 7:16 am, as...@hotmail.com wrote: >> Is there any way to use this vamp? >> >> Miguel Cordovera >> Tremere >> Capacity: 6 >> AUS DOM POT THA >> Group: 5 >> Camarilla: During your predator's minion phase, your predator may >> burn a pool to untap and take control of Miguel until the end of the >> minion phase. +1 bleed. >> Set: Keepers of Tradition. > > His flaw can actually be used as an advantage. Barring your predator > playing a rush deck, you can expect your predator to spend the pool to > take him and bleed you for at least 2. > > So pack lots and lots of deflections, and by bounceing Miguel's bleed > you equivalently get a BONUS bleed for 2 against your prey. What the heck ?! You'd risk deflecting a helpless minion to your prey if he's playing fight ? Orpheus

Blooded Sand wrote: > On Apr 2, 2:53 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: >> On Apr 2, 7:16 am, as...@hotmail.com wrote: >> >>> Is there any way to use this vamp? >> >>> Miguel Cordovera >>> Tremere >>> Capacity: 6 >>> AUS DOM POT THA >>> Group: 5 >>> Camarilla: During your predator's minion phase, your predator may >>> burn a pool to untap and take control of Miguel until the end of >>> the minion phase. +1 bleed. >>> Set: Keepers of Tradition. >> >> His flaw can actually be used as an advantage. Barring your predator >> playing a rush deck, you can expect your predator to spend the pool >> to take him and bleed you for at least 2. >> >> So pack lots and lots of deflections, and by bounceing Miguel's bleed >> you equivalently get a BONUS bleed for 2 against your prey. > > Heidelberg, Red list and some agg is also good...... > Make him red list after he gets taken. If he does not get taken, he > just bleeds for 5, repeatedly. > Either way, garvy. If he gets taken, biscuits too! > Add in that silly ally that swims upstream.... Nah... The only thing that could prevent him from being taken, ever, is a lot of Reversal of Fortune called out of turn, preventing your pred to ever play. A lot of setup for a small advantage though. Could be worth for Sonja Blue, though... Orpheus

[ quoted text not captured ] Because messing up Sonja Blue wasn't enough ?

On Apr 3, 7:55 am, as...@hotmail.com wrote: > On 3 Apr, 11:46, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > > Thanks for the lecture in social behavior dad. Okay, here's a lecture in social behavior that *doesn't* sound like your dad... Quit acting like such a dickhead all the time. Short and sweet. Hope this helps.

[ quoted text not captured ] Well, I don´t do it all the time, but when I rip up a booster and feel tricked on my money, I feel like using that language to make my point.

as...@hotmail.com wrote: > On 3 Apr, 16:13, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote: >> On Apr 3, 7:55 am, as...@hotmail.com wrote: >> >>> On 3 Apr, 11:46, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: >> >>> Thanks for the lecture in social behavior dad. >> >> Okay, here's a lecture in social behavior that *doesn't* sound like >> your dad... >> >> Quit acting like such a dickhead all the time. >> >> Short and sweet. Hope this helps. > > Well, I don´t do it all the time, but when I rip up a booster and feel > tricked on my money, I feel like using that language to make my point. Not wanting to add on the "anti-Ashur" rant here. But there are many, many vampires (or Rare cards for that matter) that make me feel more "ripped for my money" then Miguel. Yeah, he's nigh unplayable. But less-than-average vampires in crypts with much better choices will seldom see the light of, erm, night either. And really, crappy Rares are much worse when you open boosts than a few unplayable vampires. Just my 2-non-paternal-necrocents Orpheus

On Apr 3, 10:19 am, as...@hotmail.com wrote: > Well, I don´t do it all the time, but when I rip up a booster and feel > tricked on my money, I feel like using that language to make my point. Tricked on your money? Really? By a vampire of questionable utility? There are countless crappy cards all over the new set. All over all the sets. 'Cause not all cards can be the best ones. Miguel is certainly a fringey vampire. But someone somewhere is going to be intrigued enough to try out something interesting with him (see: Sonja Blue or Uriah Winter or Jacob the Glitch). That is the one card that pushes you over the edge? -Peter

[ quoted text not captured ] Of course, that's what Chantries were built for.

[ quoted text not captured ] Granted, it's a good safety. If your allies don't elaborate a "burning plan", of course (not like if I'd never seen it happen...). Orpheus

[ quoted text not captured ] Welcome, things seem to be just heating up...

Howdy, On Apr 2, 5:16 am, as...@hotmail.com wrote: > Is there any way to use this vamp? > > Miguel Cordovera > Tremere > Capacity: 6 > AUS DOM POT THA > Group: 5 > Camarilla: During your predator's minion phase, your predator may burn > a pool to untap and take control of Miguel until the end of the minion > phase. +1 bleed. > Set: Keepers of Tradition. > > Thanks in advance. The best use for Miguel Cordovera: Trade him for a different vampire to someone who is trying to complete a KoT set. Or potentially sell him for, uh, $.10 on eBay? Other than that, I've got nothing. Hope that helps, Alex

He could work with Salubri! w/Aversion and maybe Burnt Offerings. Of course I don't know why they would want to work with him.

On Apr 3, 1:00 pm, wedge <matt...@gmail.com> wrote: > He could work with Salubri! w/Aversion and maybe Burnt Offerings. > Of course I don't know why they would want to work with him. Maybe Ponticulus / Talbot's Chainsaw is a good enough reason.

[ quoted text not captured ] Sadly, the Chainsaw isn't a melee weapon, so most of the Valeren tech doesn't really gel with it. John Eno

[ quoted text not captured ] I keep trying to block that out. Even the Rowan Ring is a melee weapon. So what is it a unique ranged weapon that only does damage at close. Talbots may be the best example of a melee weapon VTES has to offer. Melee (from the French mêlée IPA: [meˈleː]) generally refers to disorganized close combat involving a group of fighters. A melee ensues when groups become locked together in combat with no regard to group tactics or fighting as an organized unit; each participant fights as an individual.[1] Oh well, Miguel Cordovera can still be used for collages.

[ quoted text not captured ] Melee: surprisingly similar to most gamer forums and earlier moments of this thread...

wedge wrote: > He could work with Salubri! w/Aversion and maybe Burnt Offerings. > Of course I don't know why they would want to work with him. Is Aversion cumulative ?

[ quoted text not captured ] All cards are cumulative unless otherwise specified by card text.

On 3 Apr, 16:31, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: > 'Cause not all cards can be the best ones. No, I have never suggested that. But they can at least be playable. Is it to much to ask? > That is the one card that pushes you over the edge? It was a good example.

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 12:18:33 -0700 (PDT), wumpus <wum...@comcast.net> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Something I haven't seen in the thread. Useful if you drain him. Put him out, get all but one blood off him. Govern. He's now on zero. Let your opponent steal him. He can only do one thing. You've already recovered his cost with the drainage. Use of Blood Doll/Vessel/Hunting Ground, and you're set (you can push blood on, your pred can't). Without a lot of blood, and few stealth disciplines, a 1 blood vamp might be a little fragile, but he does do it with 4 superior disciplines. Surely someone can come up with something. Morgan Vening

On Apr 4, 9:14 am, as...@hotmail.com wrote: > No, I have never suggested that. But they can at least be playable. Is > it to much to ask? Sure. But every once and a while, cards that don't seem readily playable come out, and eventually people figure out good things to do with them (again, see: Sonja Blue and Uriah Winter). Some folks really enjoy figuring out things to do with sub-optimal seeming cards. Should all cards be really difficult to use well? Of course not. But if every once and a while, we get something like Miguel (who someone will find some great thing to do with eventually) that seems like total trash, but someone is going to enjoy trying to make gold. -Peter

Morgan Vening <mor...@optusnet.com.au> wrote: >>> Miguel Cordovera >>> Tremere >>> Capacity: 6 >>> AUS DOM POT THA >>> Group: 5 >>> Camarilla: During your predator's minion phase, your predator may burn >>> a pool to untap and take control of Miguel until the end of the minion >>> phase. +1 bleed. >>> Set: Keepers of Tradition. > >Something I haven't seen in the thread. > >Useful if you drain him. Put him out, get all but one blood off him. >Govern. He's now on zero. > >Let your opponent steal him. He can only do one thing. You've already >recovered his cost with the drainage. Use of Blood Doll/Vessel/Hunting >Ground, and you're set (you can push blood on, your pred can't). One problem is that - unless you put in some really fancy footwork[0] - your predator gets the chance to steal him for a turn that before you get the chance to act, and there aren't many ways to drain a vampire as a reaction. So they pretty much get at least one turn to screw with him. [0] Some sort of out-of-turn Undue Influence, or something like that. Can be ignored for practical purposes, really. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

James Coupe wrote: > Morgan Vening <mor...@optusnet.com.au> wrote: >>>> Miguel Cordovera >>>> Tremere >>>> Capacity: 6 >>>> AUS DOM POT THA >>>> Group: 5 >>>> Camarilla: During your predator's minion phase, your predator may burn >>>> a pool to untap and take control of Miguel until the end of the minion >>>> phase. +1 bleed. >>>> Set: Keepers of Tradition. >> >>Something I haven't seen in the thread. >> >>Useful if you drain him. Put him out, get all but one blood off him. >>Govern. He's now on zero. >> >>Let your opponent steal him. He can only do one thing. You've already >>recovered his cost with the drainage. Use of Blood Doll/Vessel/Hunting >>Ground, and you're set (you can push blood on, your pred can't). > > One problem is that - unless you put in some really fancy footwork[0] - pre-deployed heidelburg castle? -- salem (replace 'hotmail' with 'gmail' to email)

On Sun, 05 Apr 2009 22:14:07 +1000, Salem <kell...@hotmail.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] That works. Initially, I figured you'd take the hit for 2 (hopefully bounce it), thereafter, not worry about it (after draining him). Might not be fantastic, but I don't see one or two in a power bleed deck being too hard to manage. I don't think he'll ever be a star to the same extent as Enkidu or the like, but in a deck that for the most part works well anyway, I don't see him being the utter detriment others see. Morgan Vening

On 2 avr, 22:40, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > as...@hotmail.com wrote: > >Exactelly my point. THIS VAMPIRE SUCKS. LSJ, why did you invent this > >shitty vamp? > > So Ashur, when did you stop beating your wife? > very interesting argument *rolleyes* let's ignore this troll :) i don't know why most thaumaturgists in the game get horrible flaws. Jacob, miguel, schuyler, Andrew, Hector... the list goes on and on. Is there some thematic at work ? because it looks like this change is quite recent, i don't remember flawed tremere back in the old days. Building a deck around them can be a good exercise though, but i understand some people like Ashur feel ripped of their money when they buy boosters only to find those nearly unplayable vampires. I don't understand how they made it through the playstests. Is it difficult to beat the efficiency of the 5 and 6 caps !/tremere printed before gehenna ? I just wonder who use them. Maybe it's the players who like to "shoot themselves in the foot", like a golf player with a handicap ? :)

On Apr 9, 8:23 am, "Reyda !" <Rey...@gmail.com> wrote: > very interesting argument *rolleyes* > let's ignore this troll (A: This was an argumentative analogy, where James was using an example of "*how* you ask a question is just as important as the question itself" and B: if you wanted people to ignore a "troll", pointing out that they should ignore it, like, a week later, isn't likely to accomplish much. Just sayin.) -Peter

[ quoted text not captured ] except it has nothing to do with the game we are talking about :) if the question was "why don't you ask lsj if he beats his wife ?", then i would be pleased ;) sorry for not checking the time on the post ^^

On Apr 9, 7:51 pm, "Reyda !" <Rey...@gmail.com> wrote: > except it has nothing to do with the game we are talking about :) It was, ya know, a comparison. X=Y. "Why did you make such a sucky piece of crap card?" = "have you stopped beating your wife?" (that particular phrase being a very common, in english, example of "how a badly asked question makes discussion go badly", see, 'cause asking "have you stopped beating your wife?" and expecting an answer makes the person answering imply that he started beating his wife at some point, as opposed to being able to simply say "I don't beat my wife", see. It is an illustration of how one words a question is important.) > sorry for not checking the time on the post ^^ It happens. No big. Just pointing it out :-) -Peter

On 10 avr, 02:03, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: > On Apr 9, 7:51 pm, "Reyda !" <Rey...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > except it has nothing to do with the game we are talking about :) > > It was, ya know, a comparison. X=Y. "Why did you make such a sucky > piece of crap card?" = "have you stopped beating your wife?" (that > particular phrase being a very common, in english) ah ok, now i understand. In french we have some more colorful things not involving the wife, like "did i ask you if your grandmother rides a bicycle ?" I know it sounds strange, but it's very common here :)

On Apr 9, 8:59 pm, "Reyda !" <Rey...@gmail.com> wrote: > ah ok, now i understand. In french we have some more colorful things > not involving the wife, like "did i ask you if your grandmother rides > a bicycle ?" I know it sounds strange, but it's very common here :) Makes perfect sense to me :-) -Petre

[ quoted text not captured ] Babble babble Babylon! Brought to you by the Society for the creation of Babel Fish....

[ quoted text not captured ] > 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Yes thats true, there are ways to get the blood of him (Heidelberg Castle and rave). But for a meth to have those cards, when you bring out Miguel will not always be the circumstance. That also with risk of getting him for 1 pool, then bleeding you while you might have a deflect might be counterproductive. Then your deck could minimize his threat with aversions as someone already pointed out. Frankly for me, he isnt as debilitating as Pariah and he seems pretty solid as a Potence Tremere. Im sure someone out there right now is tinkering with him, even as we debate his overall usefulness. Lets not be in such a rush to condemn a card based on his initial presentation.