*NEW* JYHAD DESIGN TEAM RULINGS: 10/6/94

/* ** These were posted earlier today. A couple of them are being reverified, ** but there's enough useful stuff in here that people have been waiting ** on that I decided to post these anyway. Objections are noted below, ** and notes are sprinkled throughout as usual. ** -- Aahz */ 1) If a Primogen, Prince, or Justicar is given a new office by a Praxis Seizure or a Justicar card, does she keep the original title as well? Does she get the votes for both titles, for only her original title, for only the new title, or for whichever gives the higher number of votes? Any vampire given a new office, relinquishes their old office in favor of the new, even if this is a demotion (from Justicar to Prince). 2) If a vampire with 1 blood is hit by a 3-point-or-greater aggravated damage strike, does the vampire go to torpor and then to the ashheap, or does it just go straight to the ashheap? (This is a critical difference if the vampire has Fame...) The vampire goes straight to the Ashheap. 3) Chainsaw and Talbot's Chainsaw aren't ranged but don't say Melee Weapon. Are they a special class of non-ranged non-melee weapon, or should they have errata adding "Melee"? They are not melee weapons. This is so that cards like Growing Fury do not add to Chainsaw damage. /* ** Still trying to ascertain why someone would use a Chainsaw instead ** of a Sawed-Off... */ 4) When, exactly, can and can't Action Modifiers be played? They can be used both before and after an action is blocked, so you can wait until after they decide to not block to play Conditioning. 5) Wolf Companion: a) The Wolf's damage is not a strike, and therefore cannot be prevented by Dodge. b) Combat Ends will stop it, since you never reach the damage-dealing step. c) It only does damage at close range. d) The Wolf does its damage each round of combat, but not during "additional strike" strikes. e) Its number of lives depends only on the skill of the recruiting vampire at the time it is recruited; if the skill changes later, the Wolf doesn't change. f) If the vampire goes to torpor due to a First Strike with aggravated damage, the Wolf does not do its damage. /* ** Assume these all apply to Murder of Crows as well, except of course ** for c). */ 6) Kine Resources Contested: Can you divide the points by giving 4 points to one and zero points to the other? At least one point must be allocated to each Methuselah [chosen]. 7) The rules say "You may only use hand damage modifiers on melee-type weapons (such as knives, clubs, etc.)." Does "hand damage modifiers" refer only to +N Hand Damage effects, or does it include other modifiers such as those that make hand damage aggravated? It only includes the +N Hand Damage. You cannot use Wolf Claws to make the Bastard Sword aggravated. 8) Can you choose "no strike" as your strike, or must you choose one of "normal hand attack, weapon, or strike card"? You cannot choose "no strike" as your strike. 9) Vast Wealth: If you use this ability, are you forced to purchase the weapon you locate or can you look at what it is and then decide whether to purchase it or not? If the latter, what happens when the weapon costs 5 blood and you only have 4 blood left in your pool? If you choose to use the vast wealth, then you must use the weapon you pull out. If you do not have enough blood to pay, then you are ousted. 10) "The Third Tradition: Progeny" allows a Prince or Justicar to create a new 2 blood vampire with 1 skill. Is this new vampire a member of the same clan as the Prince or Justicar or is it clanless? It is a member of the clan that created the Progeny. /* ** Am assuming this is errata. Will let y'all know if this is anything ** one could infer from the card or the rules. */ 11) Is Caitiff a "clan" for the purposes of cards where you choose a clan (such as Consanguineous Boon)? Caitiff are clanless. 12) When a player is ousted or withdraws, do they take all their cards all their cards with them, including those which might have been under the control of some other player? They take all of their cards with them. 13) If the acting minion plays a Combat Ends strike card, does the combat end instantly or does it end in the "resolve strike" step? Combat ends instantly, so you cannot play a strike card afterwords. Note that the acting minion is allowed to play an action first. 14) Pulled Fangs: "Any vampire may burn this card by taking two actions, which would be at +1 Stealth." Must they be two actions in the same turn, or can they be done on two separate turns? Can they be done by two different vampires, or must they be both done by the same vampire? It takes two actions. They can be by different vampires on different turns. 15) In the list of official rulings that Tom got from Jeff, it said that Sudden Reversal could be used to burn a card in play as well as one being played. Can you confirm or (preferably) deny this ruling? You cannot use it to burn a card in play. 16) If you do an action, no one blocks, and you play an action modifier to make it nastier, can they then decide to block after all? No. The decision to block or not is final. 17) If something gives control of a vampire to a different player, do all cards played on that vampire stay on it? (I assume yes.) What if it's a Blood Doll -- does the original controller get to draw blood from it, or the new controller? Yes. And the new controller can use the blood doll. 18) Vampire "Astrid Thomas": is "abstain" a vote? i.e. must all Tremere vote with her, or can they abstain? You can abstain from the vote, but if they do vote, them must vote in her favor. /* ** This is being kicked back for reverification. */ 19) Card "Anarch Troublemaker": can you use this if your prey has only one untapped vampire? No. You must tap two minions. 20) Is the "Cat Burglary" card messed up? Yes. It will be fixed in the next version. 21) Vampire "Sabine Lafitte": can you transfer blood onto an uncontrolled Tremere, or does "in the game" mean "in play"? Not to an uncontrolled vampire, but you can to a vampire in torpor. It should read "in play." 22) Card "Brujah Frenzy": I asked for an official answer on this, since I got two different answers from two different Customer Support people, but I haven't heard anything back. Can you have the Brujah attack someone who is already tapped (like a (D) attack) or not? You can have the Brujah attack a tapped minion. 23) What's the deal with contested cards? You cannot affect contested cards in any way. The FAQ is incorrect in this respect. 24) What happens if Peace Treaty is played and I want to keep a free weapon, such as a Grenade? You can keep free weapons for free, including 1 cost weapons on Black cat. /* ** Note that this is a reversal of the Black Cat ruling. */ 25) Suppose a vampire is in torpor, has no blood, but has Charnas on it. The vampire untaps; does anything bad happen to the vampire? Jeff thought not, since Charnas' damage is non-aggravated, but was going to get back to me and never did. Charnas does nothing to a minion with no blood that untaps in torpor. 26) Can Gird Minions be used to put blood on a vampire in torpor? It sorta seems like one shouldn't be able to, but there's nothing in the rules or on the card stopping this. Can this be done, and if not, exactly where does it say that it can't be done? Same question would apply to Minion Tap. Yes for both Gird Minions and Minion Tap. 27) Just how pervasive is Eagle's Sight? I'm assuming the vampire using it would still have to raise its intercept to match the acting minion's stealth, but would it allow the reacting vampire to block "unblockable" actions such as anything modified by Day Operation? Would it allow the vampire to block after all other vampires have decided whether to block, a la Anneke? You must still have intercept equal to the stealth value of the acting minion, but you can block a Day Operation. /* ** Also being kicked back for reverification. */ 28) Maybe I'm just missing something in the rules, but what happens if one person wants to use Elysium, and another person wants to use Trap? Who goes first? Would it be acting player then blocking/victim player than all other players in the game, or what? The order is: acting player, blocking player, all others. 29) Anyway, if I want to use Telepathic Counter against my opponent's blee, but he wants to use Spying Mission, who wins? Spying Mission would win, because the acting minion plays cards first, and the bleed would have already been reduced by the time the Telepathic Counter would be played. 30) Can this be used if the Masking vampire couldn't legally perform the current action? For example, can I attack a vampire with my Muddled Vampire and then take over with another vampire using the Mask? Part of me says that it shouldn't be able to, but I think that's just the part trying to envision how this all works in "reality", and I think the card would allow the vampire to Mask an "illegal" action in this manner. You can use the Mask of 1000 Faces to make a minion perform an action that they normally couldn't. 31) Also, are action modifiers applied to the acting vampire, or to the action itself? For example, suppose a vampire used Earth Control to increase its stealth, then a vampire takes over with the Mask. Does it still enjoy the increased stealth? Does it matter whether the new vampire has Protean? (I don't think whether it has Protean should be relevant, but am unsure about whether the stealth would still apply.) I can really see arguments for both sides on this one. Modifiers are applied to the action itself. 32) Charming Lobby: "Call a vote. If it passes, then the next vote passes automatically." Does this mean: d) Charming Lobby does nothing unless you use another minion action to call a vote. If that vote passes, then the next one will automatically pass as well. This is correct. /* ** Also being kicked back for reverification. */ 33) Dragon Breath Rounds in a Zip Gun: do the rounds add +2 aggravated damage to just the strike, or do they also add it to the damage done to the bearer of the zip gun? Just to the strike damage. 34) Cloak the Gathering: The rules, in section 7.2.2., say "The same action modifier card type cannot be used twice by a minion during the same action." Cloak the Gathering is an odd action modifier which can be used either by the acting minion on itself, or (with superior Obfuscate) can be used by a non-acting minion on the acting minion. I believe that it is legal for two different minions to use Cloak the Gathering during the same action, but not for the same minion to use it twice. Is this correct? Two different minions can use Cloak of the Gathering to modify the same action. 35) Can you play a Reaction after your opponent plays an Action Modifier, or only directly after they play the Action? (Specific situation: Foo bleeds Bar. Bar declines to block, but plays the reaction Telepathic Counter. Foo plays the action modifier Conditioning. Bar plays the reaction Telepathic Misdirection. Foo claims that this is illegal, that Bar passed her chance to play additional Reactions and so can't play one now.) It is legal to play reaction cards both before and after action modifiers. 36) Anarch Troublemaker: this card creates timing problems. Here's the answer I gave on JYHAD-L; please confirm or refute it. "Jyhad hasn't defined anything like MTG's "in response" and corresponding timing issues. Jyhad cards have their effect immediately upon use, not delayed until after reactions are declared. I haven't seen any official rulings on these questions, but my opinions would be: * If you use AT on a vampire after its controller declares that it is attempting to block, the vampire is still attempting to block (just as if its controller had used one of the special cards that allow a tapped vampire to attempt to block). This is incorrect. The block is not solid until after all effects are resolved. For example if you attempt to block, the acting minion can increase stealth. They can also remove the blocker with the AT. * If you use AT on a vampire before its controller declares that it is blocking, then the vampire is tapped and therefore cannot declare a block. This is correct. * If you use AT on a vampire before its controller declares that it is bleeding (or any other action), then the vampire is tapped and therefore cannot take an action. This is correct for the most part, but the acting player should be allowed to declare their first action before you use the AT. Conversely you could just use the AT during their master phase. 37a) Also about the Anarch Troublemaker: if you're down to two players, and one uses the Troublemaker, the other gets it and can promptly use it right back on the first player, just sending it back and forth until it can't tap anything more. Several players have asked if the Troublemaker is going to have errata saying it taps when used or something similar. Any comment? This works just fine. 38) Another "slap" situation. One player has Elesium, and another has the vampire Mariel. Each of these must be used at the beginning of combat, before range is determined, and each of them ends the combat immediately. So using one makes using the other illegal. What if both players try to use them simultaneously -- who gets priority? Priority is: acting player, blocking player, and then clockwise from the acting player. 39) If a vampire receives both aggravated and normal damage at the same time, which is applied first? Regular damage is applied first. 40) Uriah Winter will still defect (if appropriate) if he's in torpor, right? And I assume that if so, he will go to the new controllor's torpor region. This is correct.

/* ** These were posted earlier today. A couple of them are being reverified, ** but there's enough useful stuff in here that people have been waiting ** on that I decided to post these anyway. Objections are noted below, ** and notes are sprinkled throughout as usual. ** -- Aahz */ 1) If a Primogen, Prince, or Justicar is given a new office by a Praxis Seizure or a Justicar card, does she keep the original title as well? Does she get the votes for both titles, for only her original title, for only the new title, or for whichever gives the higher number of votes? Any vampire given a new office, relinquishes their old office in favor of the new, even if this is a demotion (from Justicar to Prince). 2) If a vampire with 1 blood is hit by a 3-point-or-greater aggravated damage strike, does the vampire go to torpor and then to the ashheap, or does it just go straight to the ashheap? (This is a critical difference if the vampire has Fame...) The vampire goes straight to the Ashheap. 3) Chainsaw and Talbot's Chainsaw aren't ranged but don't say Melee Weapon. Are they a special class of non-ranged non-melee weapon, or should they have errata adding "Melee"? They are not melee weapons. This is so that cards like Growing Fury do not add to Chainsaw damage. /* ** Still trying to ascertain why someone would use a Chainsaw instead ** of a Sawed-Off... */ 4) When, exactly, can and can't Action Modifiers be played? They can be used both before and after an action is blocked, so you can wait until after they decide to not block to play Conditioning. 5) Wolf Companion: a) The Wolf's damage is not a strike, and therefore cannot be prevented by Dodge. b) Combat Ends will stop it, since you never reach the damage-dealing step. c) It only does damage at close range. d) The Wolf does its damage each round of combat, but not during "additional strike" strikes. e) Its number of lives depends only on the skill of the recruiting vampire at the time it is recruited; if the skill changes later, the Wolf doesn't change. f) If the vampire goes to torpor due to a First Strike with aggravated damage, the Wolf does not do its damage. /* ** Assume these all apply to Murder of Crows as well, except of course ** for c). */ 6) Kine Resources Contested: Can you divide the points by giving 4 points to one and zero points to the other? At least one point must be allocated to each Methuselah [chosen]. 7) The rules say "You may only use hand damage modifiers on melee-type weapons (such as knives, clubs, etc.)." Does "hand damage modifiers" refer only to +N Hand Damage effects, or does it include other modifiers such as those that make hand damage aggravated? It only includes the +N Hand Damage. You cannot use Wolf Claws to make the Bastard Sword aggravated. 8) Can you choose "no strike" as your strike, or must you choose one of "normal hand attack, weapon, or strike card"? You cannot choose "no strike" as your strike. 9) Vast Wealth: If you use this ability, are you forced to purchase the weapon you locate or can you look at what it is and then decide whether to purchase it or not? If the latter, what happens when the weapon costs 5 blood and you only have 4 blood left in your pool? If you choose to use the vast wealth, then you must use the weapon you pull out. If you do not have enough blood to pay, then you are ousted. 10) "The Third Tradition: Progeny" allows a Prince or Justicar to create a new 2 blood vampire with 1 skill. Is this new vampire a member of the same clan as the Prince or Justicar or is it clanless? It is a member of the clan that created the Progeny. /* ** Am assuming this is errata. Will let y'all know if this is anything ** one could infer from the card or the rules. */ 11) Is Caitiff a "clan" for the purposes of cards where you choose a clan (such as Consanguineous Boon)? Caitiff are clanless. 12) When a player is ousted or withdraws, do they take all their cards all their cards with them, including those which might have been under the control of some other player? They take all of their cards with them. 13) If the acting minion plays a Combat Ends strike card, does the combat end instantly or does it end in the "resolve strike" step? Combat ends instantly, so you cannot play a strike card afterwords. Note that the acting minion is allowed to play an action first. 14) Pulled Fangs: "Any vampire may burn this card by taking two actions, which would be at +1 Stealth." Must they be two actions in the same turn, or can they be done on two separate turns? Can they be done by two different vampires, or must they be both done by the same vampire? It takes two actions. They can be by different vampires on different turns. 15) In the list of official rulings that Tom got from Jeff, it said that Sudden Reversal could be used to burn a card in play as well as one being played. Can you confirm or (preferably) deny this ruling? You cannot use it to burn a card in play. 16) If you do an action, no one blocks, and you play an action modifier to make it nastier, can they then decide to block after all? No. The decision to block or not is final. 17) If something gives control of a vampire to a different player, do all cards played on that vampire stay on it? (I assume yes.) What if it's a Blood Doll -- does the original controller get to draw blood from it, or the new controller? Yes. And the new controller can use the blood doll. 18) Vampire "Astrid Thomas": is "abstain" a vote? i.e. must all Tremere vote with her, or can they abstain? You can abstain from the vote, but if they do vote, them must vote in her favor. /* ** This is being kicked back for reverification. */ 19) Card "Anarch Troublemaker": can you use this if your prey has only one untapped vampire? No. You must tap two minions. 20) Is the "Cat Burglary" card messed up? Yes. It will be fixed in the next version. 21) Vampire "Sabine Lafitte": can you transfer blood onto an uncontrolled Tremere, or does "in the game" mean "in play"? Not to an uncontrolled vampire, but you can to a vampire in torpor. It should read "in play." 22) Card "Brujah Frenzy": I asked for an official answer on this, since I got two different answers from two different Customer Support people, but I haven't heard anything back. Can you have the Brujah attack someone who is already tapped (like a (D) attack) or not? You can have the Brujah attack a tapped minion. 23) What's the deal with contested cards? You cannot affect contested cards in any way. The FAQ is incorrect in this respect. 24) What happens if Peace Treaty is played and I want to keep a free weapon, such as a Grenade? You can keep free weapons for free, including 1 cost weapons on Black cat. /* ** Note that this is a reversal of the Black Cat ruling. */ 25) Suppose a vampire is in torpor, has no blood, but has Charnas on it. The vampire untaps; does anything bad happen to the vampire? Jeff thought not, since Charnas' damage is non-aggravated, but was going to get back to me and never did. Charnas does nothing to a minion with no blood that untaps in torpor. 26) Can Gird Minions be used to put blood on a vampire in torpor? It sorta seems like one shouldn't be able to, but there's nothing in the rules or on the card stopping this. Can this be done, and if not, exactly where does it say that it can't be done? Same question would apply to Minion Tap. Yes for both Gird Minions and Minion Tap. 27) Just how pervasive is Eagle's Sight? I'm assuming the vampire using it would still have to raise its intercept to match the acting minion's stealth, but would it allow the reacting vampire to block "unblockable" actions such as anything modified by Day Operation? Would it allow the vampire to block after all other vampires have decided whether to block, a la Anneke? You must still have intercept equal to the stealth value of the acting minion, but you can block a Day Operation. /* ** Also being kicked back for reverification. */ 28) Maybe I'm just missing something in the rules, but what happens if one person wants to use Elysium, and another person wants to use Trap? Who goes first? Would it be acting player then blocking/victim player than all other players in the game, or what? The order is: acting player, blocking player, all others. 29) Anyway, if I want to use Telepathic Counter against my opponent's blee, but he wants to use Spying Mission, who wins? Spying Mission would win, because the acting minion plays cards first, and the bleed would have already been reduced by the time the Telepathic Counter would be played. 30) Can this be used if the Masking vampire couldn't legally perform the current action? For example, can I attack a vampire with my Muddled Vampire and then take over with another vampire using the Mask? Part of me says that it shouldn't be able to, but I think that's just the part trying to envision how this all works in "reality", and I think the card would allow the vampire to Mask an "illegal" action in this manner. You can use the Mask of 1000 Faces to make a minion perform an action that they normally couldn't. 31) Also, are action modifiers applied to the acting vampire, or to the action itself? For example, suppose a vampire used Earth Control to increase its stealth, then a vampire takes over with the Mask. Does it still enjoy the increased stealth? Does it matter whether the new vampire has Protean? (I don't think whether it has Protean should be relevant, but am unsure about whether the stealth would still apply.) I can really see arguments for both sides on this one. Modifiers are applied to the action itself. 32) Charming Lobby: "Call a vote. If it passes, then the next vote passes automatically." Does this mean: d) Charming Lobby does nothing unless you use another minion action to call a vote. If that vote passes, then the next one will automatically pass as well. This is correct. /* ** Also being kicked back for reverification. */ 33) Dragon Breath Rounds in a Zip Gun: do the rounds add +2 aggravated damage to just the strike, or do they also add it to the damage done to the bearer of the zip gun? Just to the strike damage. 34) Cloak the Gathering: The rules, in section 7.2.2., say "The same action modifier card type cannot be used twice by a minion during the same action." Cloak the Gathering is an odd action modifier which can be used either by the acting minion on itself, or (with superior Obfuscate) can be used by a non-acting minion on the acting minion. I believe that it is legal for two different minions to use Cloak the Gathering during the same action, but not for the same minion to use it twice. Is this correct? Two different minions can use Cloak of the Gathering to modify the same action. 35) Can you play a Reaction after your opponent plays an Action Modifier, or only directly after they play the Action? (Specific situation: Foo bleeds Bar. Bar declines to block, but plays the reaction Telepathic Counter. Foo plays the action modifier Conditioning. Bar plays the reaction Telepathic Misdirection. Foo claims that this is illegal, that Bar passed her chance to play additional Reactions and so can't play one now.) It is legal to play reaction cards both before and after action modifiers. 36) Anarch Troublemaker: this card creates timing problems. Here's the answer I gave on JYHAD-L; please confirm or refute it. "Jyhad hasn't defined anything like MTG's "in response" and corresponding timing issues. Jyhad cards have their effect immediately upon use, not delayed until after reactions are declared. I haven't seen any official rulings on these questions, but my opinions would be: * If you use AT on a vampire after its controller declares that it is attempting to block, the vampire is still attempting to block (just as if its controller had used one of the special cards that allow a tapped vampire to attempt to block). This is incorrect. The block is not solid until after all effects are resolved. For example if you attempt to block, the acting minion can increase stealth. They can also remove the blocker with the AT. * If you use AT on a vampire before its controller declares that it is blocking, then the vampire is tapped and therefore cannot declare a block. This is correct. * If you use AT on a vampire before its controller declares that it is bleeding (or any other action), then the vampire is tapped and therefore cannot take an action. This is correct for the most part, but the acting player should be allowed to declare their first action before you use the AT. Conversely you could just use the AT during their master phase. 37a) Also about the Anarch Troublemaker: if you're down to two players, and one uses the Troublemaker, the other gets it and can promptly use it right back on the first player, just sending it back and forth until it can't tap anything more. Several players have asked if the Troublemaker is going to have errata saying it taps when used or something similar. Any comment? This works just fine. 38) Another "slap" situation. One player has Elesium, and another has the vampire Mariel. Each of these must be used at the beginning of combat, before range is determined, and each of them ends the combat immediately. So using one makes using the other illegal. What if both players try to use them simultaneously -- who gets priority? Priority is: acting player, blocking player, and then clockwise from the acting player. 39) If a vampire receives both aggravated and normal damage at the same time, which is applied first? Regular damage is applied first. 40) Uriah Winter will still defect (if appropriate) if he's in torpor, right? And I assume that if so, he will go to the new controllor's torpor region. This is correct.