I'm just starting on Jyhad, and am a little overwhelmed by the huge
variety of things to put in a deck. It's hard to balance combat, politics
and master cards, let alone come up with a strategy. If there's a general
guideline file out there (I didn't see it at marvin, but I could have
missed) I'd appreciate knowing about it. Otherwise, I'm looking for tips
on things like...
-- Deck composition. Should I have a certain ratios for things like
Master cards to Minion cards, Weapons to Action Modifiers, Combat Cards,
and so forth? Should I specialize, having lots of one thing and none of
another? (say, all combat cards and no political cards)
-- Stealth vs Intercept. Should I specialize in one, try to have both,
or eschew both in favor of stuff to cream the blocking minions??
-- Crypt Composition. Up to now I've just thrown all the vampires
available from one clan into the crypt, with no duplicates. Should I
have multiples of the weaker vampires, fewer strong vampires, multiple
clans in one pile?
-- Blood loss. The few games I've played have ended with both players
starved for blood, with cards such as Misdirection usually providing the
final blow. How many cards that let the Methuselah gain blood (Blood
Doll, Investments, Minion Tap...) should I have?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
==
Logical inconsistency is the Mr. Bubble I Bill Gilliland
bathe in each and every evening, except for skaven@u.washington.edu
yesterday evening, when I rollerbladed over
to the Masonic temple to play pinochle with I'm not a TV, doctor,
Pope John Paul the First. (King Missile) but I play on one.
In article <37kb27$m6k@nntp1.u.washington.edu>, skaven@u.washington.edu (Bill Gilliland) writes...
>-- Stealth vs Intercept. Should I specialize in one, try to have both,
>or eschew both in favor of stuff to cream the blocking minions??
Try to have both and hope your opponents ahve neither. I, myself,
prefer intercept particularly things that hang around like Sport bikes and
Raven Spy's. That way when your predator starts having his vampire with a
blood doll hunt you can "neutralize" the problem. Also, if the Caine-cursed
waste of vitae calls a kine resources contested and names you, you can stop
the problem. It got to the point where I took apart my deck and made a new
one since I had gotten the nickname "Intercept Boy". *shrug*
>-- Crypt Composition. Up to now I've just thrown all the vampires
>available from one clan into the crypt, with no duplicates. Should I
>have multiples of the weaker vampires, fewer strong vampires, multiple
>clans in one pile?
I prefer a mix of clans so you don't get hosed by Letter from Vienna or some
such. Also, there is a lot to be said for swarming your opponent with a lot
of little vampires. Unless you have a minion tap handy, Annake is a nice card
to look at, but not nice to bring out.
>
>-- Blood loss. The few games I've played have ended with both players
>starved for blood, with cards such as Misdirection usually providing the
>final blow. How many cards that let the Methuselah gain blood (Blood
>Doll, Investments, Minion Tap...) should I have?
As many as possible in all seriousness. Blood doll is almost as nice
as holding the edge (don't forget, you get pool for having the edge at upkeep)
and minion tap makes the world go round. Investments are nice, and doubly so
if you can get out Anson (literally). Ascendance is ok, but I prefer a blood
doll, especially if I can get a hunting ground or two out (another reason to
play multiple clans).
>
>Any help would be greatly appreciated.
No trouble.
Travis Buck, Primogen of Knoxville
tbuck@utkvx.utk.edu
Wolf of the Shadows <tbuck@utkvx.utk.edu> wrote:
> Try to have both and hope your opponents ahve neither. I, myself,
>prefer intercept particularly things that hang around like Sport bikes and
>Raven Spy's. That way when your predator starts having his vampire with a
>blood doll hunt you can "neutralize" the problem. Also, if the Caine-cursed
>waste of vitae calls a kine resources contested and names you, you can stop
>the problem...
Note that the player taking the Kine Resources Contested action doesn't have
to actually say which players he's dividing the damage among until after
it's been determined whether the action will be blocked (page 39). You're
free to assume when it's declared that you'll be getting the hose (probably
wise if the acting player is your predator), but even if she does say
"And you're the one who'll be taking 3 damage" before blocks are decided
upon, she's not bound to that.
Now, if she was using Kine Dominance...
Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for
aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
In article <37kb27$m6k@nntp1.u.washington.edu>,
Bill Gilliland <skaven@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>I'm just starting on Jyhad, and am a little overwhelmed by the huge
>variety of things to put in a deck. It's hard to balance combat, politics
>and master cards, let alone come up with a strategy. If there's a general
>guideline file out there (I didn't see it at marvin, but I could have
>missed) I'd appreciate knowing about it. Otherwise, I'm looking for tips
>on things like...
>>-- Deck composition. Should I have a certain ratios for things like
>Master cards to Minion cards, Weapons to Action Modifiers, Combat Cards,
>and so forth? Should I specialize, having lots of one thing and none of
>another? (say, all combat cards and no political cards)
>
In my experience it's best to specialize in a certain style. That is
either have a bleed deck, a combat deck, political deck or whatever.
This is because if you do something just halfways, someone is bound to do it
better than you. But, whatever style and specialization, it seems to be
important to have at least some combat and equipment cards for defense.
I have a bleed deck which works great, (Tremere/Malkavian, I didn't say it was
original.) and it once got _wasted_ by a Renegade Garou my predator kept
sending at me. (Of course he did, he sent one vamp to torpor every turn.
*sigh*) After that 'orrible experience I have tried to be more prepared.
I use no political cards cause I can't find room for more than a few, so I
rather skip them. A political deck could be powerful, but it would have to
be specialized.
>-- Stealth vs Intercept. Should I specialize in one, try to have both,
>or eschew both in favor of stuff to cream the blocking minions??
For bleed decks, stealth and intercept are vital. You have to be able to
hinder those Brujah/Gangrel monsters to be walking arsenals, and
you got to have the means to sneak around them if they already are.
I usually have more stealth than intercept, since it's easier to get
permanent intercepts. (KRCG radio, sportbikes etc.)
In a combat deck I would have less of both, but more intercept
than stealth, since you don't want to sneak around. You would
mainly use stealth to get weapons out and they already have +1 stealth.
>
>-- Crypt Composition. Up to now I've just thrown all the vampires
>available from one clan into the crypt, with no duplicates. Should I
>have multiples of the weaker vampires, fewer strong vampires, multiple
>clans in one pile?
When it comes to which vamps to use I prefer medium ones, 4-5-6 capacity.
This fits my style of play cause they bleed just as well as 10'ers
and can survive the odd fight. They also gives you the possibility
to usually have more vamps out than the combat-inclined players so
you can flood his defences. I have specialized a lot in three
disciplines, Dominate, Obfuscate and Auspex and I have picked my
vamps so they more or less can use every card I have. This gives
me flexibility as it is extremely boring to have a great
card on your hand and not being able to use it cause your only
vamp with the required discipline lies buried at the bottom of your
crypt.
Large capacity vampires are expensive and are better than their lesser brethren
only when they have lots of equipment, which do not make them cheaper.
I use one Caitiff, Smudge because he is nice to get out in the first round
to steal The Edge while my opponents are nestling up something large.
>
>-- Blood loss. The few games I've played have ended with both players
>starved for blood, with cards such as Misdirection usually providing the
>final blow. How many cards that let the Methuselah gain blood (Blood
>Doll, Investments, Minion Tap...) should I have?
It is essential to always have more than a little blood left in your pool.
It seems like a common mistake is to pull out a couple of justicars and think
you can rule the world with 4 blood left in your pool.
( "Hey they have three votes each, great huh? ")
To have a lot of blood is to have freedom to roam. More or less any nasty
card costs blood either from a vamp or from the pool. Without a large
pool you can't take any chances and what you can do is limited.
A normal bleed from a bleed deck is 3 to 5 pool and the combo with
Pulse of Canaille, Govern the Unaligned and Bonding for 8 bleed
is not that rare. This makes it a gamble to go under 10 pool.
But you have to use blood so you have to have get some.
The easiest way is Hunting Grounds and Blood Dolls. The Rack is also great.
At the present I have 2 blood dolls and 4 hunting grounds in my stack. The
reason why I have 2 grounds for each clan is that I can get them out earlier
and get one removed (Can you spell "Sudden Reversal") without suffering
to much. I would also say that the two powerbases are important, the problem
is that everyone seem to have them and it ends up in a race to get them
out first. I don't use Minion-Tap since I have so small vampires.
A couple of investments are a must.
Another issue is that if you have a meager pool you are very open for
someone to contest away your best vamps and locations. It's a nasty
tactic to play a card your opponent has when he has much less pool than
you. He has to yield and you gain the advantage of removing one
vamp from him in addition to getting one yourself.
At last, whatever you do, some cards are a must. This is cards like
Sudden Reversal and Wake With Evening Freshness. Without a couple of these
you will be dogmeat.
Comments or corrections anyone?
Henning
...commments?
Yeah, sure. You're absolutely right about the Wakes, they will make
or break you. I use all three of mine. I agree that the bleed decks are
the most viscious, but the people I play with ignore that strategy, so I
ignore it also. Combat is so much more fun! I switch combinations, but
or less stick with the following format:
six of one clan (ususally Malkavian)
three of another (Gangrel)
two Caitliff (Smudge and Igo)
and one or two Ventrue
There are several reasons for using Malkavians:
1) There are a lot of vamps 5 and less
2) Auspex is vital for the intercept cards
3) getting the Muddled Vapire Hunter into play
4) obfuscate for stealth actions
5) (just because I own the Madness Network)... :)
I once played a game with all vamps 4 or less, and by the time I won, I had
seven minions in play with a pool of 15 left! (this did not include victory
pool)
With seven minions you can gain the edge and keep it. Also, misdirections get
much more expensive for your opponents. If you can get just one hunting ground
in play, then you can keep the small dudes in play, which brings me to Igo.
A lot of people think Igo is a waste, but he only costs one! He is my
kamakazie (sp?) vamp. With the power of Protean, he can take out the big
vamps with Claws of the Dead or Wolf's Claws. Also, if you need someone to
take a hit from a flamethrower that's bleeding you, Igo is your man. The only
other Caitliff I play with is Hasina or Nik. The others have too powerful
restrictions.
There are several disadvantages when playing with small vamps, but all the
solutions lead to intercept. (the news station is vital!)
1)if someone pulls out a weapon... intercept it.
2)if someone recruits an ally... intercept it.
3)if someone calls a vote... intercept it.
As far as my deck goes, I think you can guess its strength is intercept
I try to include 25% master cards. Short term investments, ascendence,
hunting grounds, effective management, Masquerade Endagered, Refversal of
Fortunes, and the News Station are the most important in my deck. I include
skill cards of Auspex and Protean(for the claws). I include plenty of
intercept reactions, telepathic counters, and stealth although no more than
four of each card is ever in a deck (house rules). For combat, I use wolf
claws, throw in the 44 Magnums for the occasional disguised weapon and as
many prevent damage cards as I can get, after all, these are weak vamps.
Back to crypts (I'm jumping all over the place)
these are a few good combinations:
1)Malkavian and Tremere
2)Brujah and Toredor
3)Gangrel and Ventrue
4)Nosferatu and Brujah
Number two works really well with any strategy because both groups share
cerelity, and the toreador have the auspex to intercept. Also, Brujah have
relatively low vamps for voting with Rake and Anvil which helps the toreadors
prescence on votes.
It's really kind of a shame that the low vampires have the advantage, I've
never seen a player win with high level vamps. Also, with out the rare
justicars and praxis seizures, the traditions are worthless(Prince/Justicar).
The group I've been playing with have made an alternative Jyhad game just for
this purpose. We've decided to restrict the crypts to vamps level 5 or higher.
And to get the game started, we each get an intial 5 transfers. Otherwise
it would be a really slow start. This kind of game requires an initial pool
of 45. This alternative allows the really cool cards to finally get played:
The Greater Temptation, Traditions, Archon. Plus you can use all the special
bonuses of the higher vamps. This alternative is great! I really suggest
everyone try it as a break from the monotony of seeing the same ol vamps every
game.
If anyone has any suggestions, let me know.
Greg Faulkner
gsf50725@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
"We are the music makers... we are the dreamers of dreams."
-Willy Wonka
I try to include about i
I usually have two or so high level vamps in my crypt. With the help
of a minion tap the cost for bringing these guys out aren't so bad. Usually
, I wait till I have a minion tap to even start bringing out an expensive
vampire.
Also, I play an Auspex, Presence, Dominate deck. I find that the
stealth bleed decks are boring (My personal beliefs). With this combination
I usually have several different clans in my crypt making me less susceptible
to the cards that tap all vampires of a particular clan.
Just my $0.02 worth
Sunil
gsf50725@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Gregory S. Faulkner) writes:
>It's really kind of a shame that the low vampires have the advantage, I've
>never seen a player win with high level vamps. Also, with out the rare
>justicars and praxis seizures, the traditions are worthless(Prince/Justicar).
>The group I've been playing with have made an alternative Jyhad game just for
>this purpose. We've decided to restrict the crypts to vamps level 5 or higher.
There are counters to this. Justine, Elder of Dallas, is my favorite vampire
card for this. She eats those cheesy vampires for lunch. Hop her on a sport
bike, and watch the bad guy's herd of loser vampires cower in the corner,
because they can't even hunt.
There are also enough cards out there, Seduction and Obediance spring to mind,
that screw younger vampires. Anicent Influence is pretty cool, too.
Another drawback to hordes of cheap vampires - they have no staying power. Ok,
so you have 7 minions out, I have 4 more powerful ones. I get beat on for a
couple turns. Then, you lose. If my 4 are gangrel types, your vampires simply
get burned. If mine are Brujah or Tremere, the potence and Thaumatugy cards
keep sending yours to torpor. Torpor sucks if you don't have decent vampires
to do the rescuing. Anybody with presses hurts when your vampires have 4 or
less blood, as well.
In short, the cryptload of weenie vampires is a good strategy, but it's hardly
unstoppable.
Alec
--
Alec Habig, Indiana University High Energy Astrophysics
ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu
http://astrowww.astro.indiana.edu/personnel/ahabig/
Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns.
Alec Habig (ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu) wrote:
: gsf50725@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Gregory S. Faulkner) writes:
: >It's really kind of a shame that the low vampires have the advantage, I've
: >never seen a player win with high level vamps. Also, with out the rare
: >justicars and praxis seizures, the traditions are worthless(Prince/Justicar).
: >The group I've been playing with have made an alternative Jyhad game just for
: >this purpose. We've decided to restrict the crypts to vamps level 5 or higher.: There are counters to this. Justine, Elder of Dallas, is my favorite vampire
: card for this. She eats those cheesy vampires for lunch. Hop her on a sport
: bike, and watch the bad guy's herd of loser vampires cower in the corner,
: because they can't even hunt.: There are also enough cards out there, Seduction and Obediance spring to mind,
: that screw younger vampires. Anicent Influence is pretty cool, too.: Another drawback to hordes of cheap vampires - they have no staying power. Ok,
: so you have 7 minions out, I have 4 more powerful ones. I get beat on for a
: couple turns. Then, you lose. If my 4 are gangrel types, your vampires simply
: get burned. If mine are Brujah or Tremere, the potence and Thaumatugy cards
: keep sending yours to torpor. Torpor sucks if you don't have decent vampires
: to do the rescuing. Anybody with presses hurts when your vampires have 4 or
: less blood, as well.: In short, the cryptload of weenie vampires is a good strategy, but it's hardly
: unstoppable. : Alec
: --
: Alec Habig, Indiana University High Energy Astrophysics
: ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu
: http://astrowww.astro.indiana.edu/personnel/ahabig/
: Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns.
The way I defend against hordes of weenie vampires is in my political
deck - a couple of "Ancilla(e?) Empowerment" cards work quite nicely, and
it's kinda tough to vote against it with weenie vampires. Lose seven
pool for your seven vampires. Yes, it hurts me too, but Consanguineous
Boon makes up for that.
Chris