Stealing/Destroying Equipment with First Strike and Rotschrek

I have an interesting question. Supposing acting vampire has a Sengir Dagger or an Ivory Bow and is blocked. When it comes time to play strikes, acting vampire strikes with said weapon for aggravated damage. Then the other methuselah announces the blocking vampire will steal/destroy the equipment with first strike. Can a third methuselah then play rotschreck to cancel the combat and the theft/destruction? I would say that the theft/destruction occurs even before the attempt to use aggravated damage, and the first vampire's strike with the equipment is null and void (the intent was there but without the equipment to pursue the action), and therefore Rotschreck can't be played. Others say that the attempt to use aggravated damage is all that is required, and the third methuselah could play the rotschreck and end combat before the blocking vampire gets to announce a strike. Can rotschreck played by an uninvolved methuselah even end combat before the blocker announces a strike? Does the blocker get the opportunity to majesty or use another strike: combat ends before the rotschreck?

[ quoted text not captured ] Rotschreck is played when a minion attempts to use aggravated damage. So as soon as the minion announces the Sengir strike, Rotschreck is played and combat ends... no chance to steal it. I'd say save your steal weapon card. Hi Joseph Gary

On 15 Jul 1995, Gary Schwartz wrote: > j-al...@uiuc.edu wrote: > >I have an interesting question. Supposing acting vampire has a Sengir Dagger > >or an Ivory Bow and is blocked. When it comes time to play strikes, acting > >vampire strikes with said weapon for aggravated damage. Then the other > >methuselah announces the blocking vampire will steal/destroy the equipment > >with first strike. Can a third methuselah then play rotschreck to cancel the > >combat and the theft/destruction? I would say that the theft/destruction occurs Etc. etc. etc. > > Rotschreck is played when a minion attempts to use aggravated damage. So as soon > as the minion announces the Sengir strike, Rotschreck is played and combat ends... > no chance to steal it. I'd say save your steal weapon card. > > Hi Joseph > > Gary Hi Gary, Wait a minute, didn't I see a ruling somewhere that said once combat started only the people involved could play cards in it, except for Nos. Put.? Maybe that was just someones opinion and I took it for a ruling... Algustas *****Predominant opinions are generally the opinions of the generation that is vanishing.***** Benjamin Disraeli

Algustas <cfr...@gladstone.uoregon.edu> wrote: > > >Hi Gary, > Wait a minute, didn't I see a ruling somewhere that said once >combat started only the people involved could play cards in it, except >for Nos. Put.? Maybe that was just someones opinion and I took it for a >ruling... > Algustas Someone may have posted it, but it's nowhere in the rules or the FAQ. If you can't play them then just what are out of turn masters like Frenzy & Rotschreck good for? G

Combat cards, and effects that provide presses/strikes/maneuvers, may only be used by players involved in the combat. Cards that have a random effect on the combat (like Frenzy), and cards that end a combat without requiring a strike (like Elysium or Mariel) may be used by anyone. Note that this is a reversal which happened during the spring. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

I think my question about first strike stealing/destroying a weapon and Rotschreck was answered in the V:tES official rules on the web. It would appear that Rotschreck may not be used if the weapon dealing the aggravated damage is stolen/destroyed with first strike. "First Strike: The strike of a minion with first strike is resolved before the strike of the opposing minion. If both minions have first strike, then the strikes are resolved simultaneously. Example: Cassandra and Tiberius are at it again. Tiberius has a Flamethrower. The combat is at close range, and Cassandra has first strike due to a mysterious amulet [Where can I get one of these- Joseph]. You play a card that allows Cassandra to destroy a weapon; because she has first strike, the weapon is burned before it is used." Since the rules state the weapon is burned <before it is used>, then clearly the vampire, even though it has declared a strike, cannot attempt to <use> aggravated damage.

[ quoted text not captured ] Yet more evidence from the official rules on the web, starting with the description of "destroy equipment": "The equipment can be <used> on the turn it is burned <unless> the destroying was done before the use would happen (see First Strike, below, and Additional Strikes, Sec. 15.1). The effect may specify a weapon; in which case a weapon must be burned." The same goes for stealing equipment with first strike: "Steal Equipment: This effect is like destroy equipment, except that the equipment goes to the stealing minion." Hi, Gary! It's me even if I look like someone else. Joseph Alfred j-al...@uiuc.edu

Joseph W. Alfred (j-al...@uiuc.edu) wrote: : Example: Cassandra and Tiberius are at it again. Tiberius has a : Flamethrower. The combat is at close range, and Cassandra has first : strike due to a mysterious amulet [Where can I get one of these- : Joseph]. You play a card that allows Cassandra to destroy a weapon; : because she has first strike, the weapon is burned before it is used." 'Mysterious Amulet Of First Strike' unique item - Sorta cries out to be put in Dark Sovereigns ,dont it . JA Chapman

In article <3ujjnq$7...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> "Joseph W. Alfred" <j-al...@uiuc.edu> writes: >From: "Joseph W. Alfred" <j-al...@uiuc.edu> >Subject: Re: Stealing/Destroying Equipment with First Strike and Rotschrek >Date: 19 Jul 1995 18:43:06 GMT >I think my question about first strike stealing/destroying a weapon and >Rotschreck was answered in the V:tES official rules on the web. It >would appear that Rotschreck may not be used if the weapon dealing the >aggravated damage is stolen/destroyed with first strike. >"First Strike: The strike of a minion with first strike is resolved >before the strike of the opposing minion. If both minions have first >strike, then the strikes are resolved simultaneously. > Example: Cassandra and Tiberius are at it again. Tiberius has a >Flamethrower. The combat is at close range, and Cassandra has first >strike due to a mysterious amulet [Where can I get one of these- >Joseph]. You play a card that allows Cassandra to destroy a weapon; >because she has first strike, the weapon is burned before it is used." >Since the rules state the weapon is burned <before it is used>, then >clearly the vampire, even though it has declared a strike, cannot >attempt to <use> aggravated damage. Gary Schwartz sent e-mail to Wizards of the Coast and learned two official (!) rulings on Rotschreck. First, it must be played immediately after the strike is announced which deals aggravated damage. Secondly, Rotschreck ends combat even before First Strike is resolved, so that in this instance the weapon would not be stolen nor destroyed. From earlier postings from Tom Wylie, it would appear that Rotschreck can still be played even if the victim vampire has the ability to turn aggravated damage to normal (cf. Merrill Molitor or Fortitude) or has already invalidated a strike with a weapon that does aggravated damage (e.g. Blood Fury and Blood Rage). Consequently it is a *very* powerful little card. Beware. However, when Rotschreck is played on an additional strike, or with Pulled Fangs, it does not prevent any damage or strike which has already occurred. It also does not invalidate any of the side effects of Pulled Fangs other than the aggravated damage. Joseph W. Alfred j-al...@uiuc.edu