rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Couple of Questions

11 messages from 7 participants · 06 December 2008 – 10 December 2008
original thread on Google Groups

rob...@exploretalent.com

Could not clarify from searching. 1. If a minion has taken an action and then is removed from play and returned in the same phase (not via burning) with the ability to take another action is she still tainted from the previous action? 2. How does Heaven's Gate interact with The Grandest Trick?

LSJ

rob...@exploretalent.com wrote: > Could not clarify from searching. > > 1. If a minion has taken an action and then is removed from play and > returned in the same phase (not via burning) with the ability to take > another action is she still tainted from the previous action? If the minion still has counters and cards from before leaving play, then it still knows about other things (like actions taken). If not (e.g., a trip through the ash heap), then other times are forgotten as well (like actions taken). > 2. How does Heaven's Gate interact with The Grandest Trick? According to card text. Leaving the vampire controlled in the uncontrolled region with no prospects of becoming ready.

Chris Berger

On Dec 7, 10:27 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > robe...@exploretalent.com wrote: > > Could not clarify from searching. > > > 1. If a minion has taken an action and then is removed from play and > > returned in the same phase (not via burning) with the ability to take > > another action is she still tainted from the previous action? > > If the minion still has counters and cards from before leaving play, then it > still knows about other things (like actions taken). If not (e.g., a trip > through the ash heap), then other times are forgotten as well (like actions taken). > Just to be clear, this is tested for the general case, not for each specific case, correct? I.e. if a minion that goes out of play in a particular way would normally retain any cards and/or counters, then that particular means of going out of play doesn't "erase" the minion's memory, even if a specific minion doesn't have any cards or counters during a specific trip. So if I Banish one of my own vampires who has no blood and no cards on him or her, and then that vampire comes back into play via Undue Influence at [qui], the vamp still has memory of what actions it has taken this turn, despite the fact that by strict interpretation of the statement above, since the minion does not have any counters or cards from before leaving play then it wouldn't know about "other things". Right?

Chris Berger

On Dec 7, 10:27 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] According to Section 7 - The Influence Phase, in the rulebook: "At the end of your influence phase, any vampire in your uncontrolled region with a number of blood counters on him equal to (or more than) his capacity becomes controlled. The vampire is turned face up and moved to the ready region, untapped. The counters are kept on him to represent his blood (counters in excess of his capacity drain off immediately as usual). Other types of crypt cards are handled similarly" It doesn't say anything about the vampire needing to be "face down" or even uncontrolled, just that the vampire be *in* the uncontrolled region (which is where Heaven's Gate puts them), with blood equal to or greater than capacity. So, shouldn't you be able to bring them back to controlled by transferring pool to them, which should also be legal according to: "During your influence phase you may spend transfers as follows: * Spend one transfer to move 1 blood counter from your pool to a minion in your uncontrolled region. * Spend two transfers to move 1 blood counter from a minion in your uncontrolled region to your pool. * Spend four transfers and burn a pool to move a vampire from your crypt to your uncontrolled region (drawing from the top, as always)."

James Coupe

In message <16ccea89-08fa-4766...@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups .com>, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes: >It doesn't say anything about the vampire needing to be "face down" or >even uncontrolled, just that the vampire be *in* the uncontrolled >region (which is where Heaven's Gate puts them), with blood equal to >or greater than capacity. http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=outline is more specific about them being uncontrolled. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

Tbe...@gmail.com

On Dec 7, 8:30 pm, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > In message <16ccea89-08fa-4766-98ee-3cea3173a...@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups > .com>, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes: > > >It doesn't say anything about the vampire needing to be "face down" or > >even uncontrolled, just that the vampire be *in* the uncontrolled > >region (which is where Heaven's Gate puts them), with blood equal to > >or greater than capacity. > > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=outline > is more specific about them being uncontrolled. I know that I am being too drunk and/or obtuse but the only relative part of your link seemed to be this: "Any uncontrolled vampires (minions) with blood equal or greater than their blood capacity (cost) become controlled and move to the ready region untapped. Excess counters drain off." So it would seem that transferring to an uncontrolled face up minion would not be problematical, and the result would be a ready minion.

James Coupe

In message <854af775-f153-4a23...@a12g2000pro.googlegroup s.com>, Tbe...@gmail.com writes: >I know that I am being too drunk and/or obtuse but the only relative >part of your link seemed to be this: "Any uncontrolled vampires >(minions) with blood equal or greater than their blood capacity (cost) >become controlled and move to the ready region untapped. Excess >counters drain off." So it would seem that transferring to an >uncontrolled face up minion would not be problematical, and the result >would be a ready minion. The face-up ally/vampire is in "his or her controller's uncontrolled region (controlled, but not ready)" - card text of Heaven's Gate. They're not an uncontrolled minion. [ quoted text not captured ]

www.h...@gmail.com

On Dec 9, 10:45 am, Tbel...@gmail.com wrote: > >http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=outline > > is more specific about them being uncontrolled. > > I know that I am being too drunk and/or obtuse but the only relative > part of your link seemed to be this: "Any uncontrolled vampires > (minions) with blood equal or greater than their blood capacity (cost) > become controlled and move to the ready region untapped. Excess > counters drain off." So it would seem that transferring to an > uncontrolled face up minion would not be problematical, and the result > would be a ready minion. http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=outline D. INFLUENCE PHASE [7] 2. You may spend your transfers in any combination of the following: a. 1: move one of your pool to one of your uncontrolled minions. a. 2: move one blood from one of your uncontrolled minions to your pool.

robert...@hotmail.com

On Dec 7, 8:27 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > 2. How does Heaven's Gate interact with The Grandest Trick? > > According to card text. Leaving the vampire controlled in the uncontrolled > region with no prospects of becoming ready. Couldn't I then use Undue Influence at quietus to bring him back to ready? +1 stealth action. Requires a ready anarch. Choose a vampire in your uncontrolled region. [qui] Put 1 blood counter on the chosen vampire. If the number of counters equals or exceeds his or her capacity, move that vampire to your ready region.

LSJ

[ quoted text not captured ] Nah. Undue Influence and all the others who say "vampire in your uncontrolled region" mean "uncontrolled vampire in your uncontrolled region" (otherwise, they wouldn't be useful, by the general restriction on targeting only controlled cards).

robert...@hotmail.com

On Dec 9, 7:39 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > Nah. Undue Influence and all the others who say "vampire in your uncontrolled > region" mean "uncontrolled vampire in your uncontrolled region" (otherwise, they > wouldn't be useful, by the general restriction on targeting only controlled cards). Hmm. I suppose you could Shadow Twin it into torpor and rescue it.