The Big, BIG damage challenge

First person to come up with a scenario where vampire A inflicts more than 1000 damage to vampire B wins hands down! Only entries of 90 damage or more will be considered. I'm currently perfecting my strategy. When I figure out what the absolute maximum amount of damage inflictable with current cards is, I'll be looking for a statistician to figure out how likely it is that you could actually draw the cards in the correct order to bring about this gigantic walloping. Note: Eldritch Glimmer requires you to burn X blood (it only *costs* 1 blood). You're not going to get 90+ blood on 1 vampire at any given time, so don't even think about it.

d wrote: > First person to come up with a scenario where vampire A inflicts more > than 1000 damage to vampire B wins hands down! Only entries of 90 > damage or more will be considered. You mean successfully inflict, or just inflict? You mean instantaneously, in one round, in one combat, or in one game?

d wrote: > First person to come up with a scenario where vampire A inflicts more > than 1000 damage to vampire B wins hands down! Only entries of 90 > damage or more will be considered. Crimson Sentinel with 998 counters on it. John

Ah, LSJ has good clarifications. The damage must be successfully inflicted (all at once). So that implies it would have to be in 1 round of combat. John I hadn't thought of your solution. You have to flesh out the scenario a little, possibly involving a Haven uncovered that never gets burned and two Methuselahs agreeing to sit at a table so 998 counters can be accumalated while 1 vamp is whacked over and over by the Crimson Sentinel bearer, probably then getting rescued by a third vamp with the Rack. That would allow you to take arbitrarily many turns to end up inflicting arbitrarily many damage.... so I will post my solution in a second since it wont get that high.

[ quoted text not captured ] *shrug* I've got my last prey down to one pool and one vampire (in torpor with no blood). My opponent has no other cards in hand, play, or library (that he can use in combat or in torpor). He's got a moral compunction against transferring out. I have a vampire with Crimson Sentinel and a built-in rush (such as Theo Bell), as well as one other vampire of capacity greater than 1. Each turn, if either of my vampires must hunt, they both do and I pass my turn. Otherwise, the weenie rescues my opponent's vampire and the Sentinel vampire rushes. Repeat until desired damage total is achieved. John

Gwendolyn struggles out of the crypt and into play by around round 3. She immediately sets herself up for this by using Masochism. Meanwhile, her predator has already brought out Frederick the Weak for a turn two bleed and equipped with the Eye of Hazimel. Next turn he rushes Gwen and Traps her. In the resulting combat, Gwen plays Superior Mettle while "Weak"-o counters with Fire in the Bloodx8 and Apparition. As already declared Gwen's a Masochist so she stretches combat past rounds 4 and 8 with some other damage prevent cards like.. Rolling with the Punches. By round 11 Gwen is out of blood and takes 89 damage getting 90 counters on her Masochism. After Gwen gets a rescue, FtW damn well rushes her again. He plays his last 78 Fire in the Bloods, his trap, and his Apparition. Gwen then top decks 87 Skin of Steel. In round 88, FtW hits her for 7021 hand damage, she's out of library cards and hits the dirt hard. At least for a turn... (Meanwhile, at the rest of the table Meth B's prey and grandprey are contesting Dimple and are handjammed on stealth cards. Meth A's prey brings Enkidu out and turns out to be sitting on a stack of Freak Drives and Victim of Habit. Gwen and FtW's controllers are soon ousted and Enkidu's methusalah laughs all the way to the bank.)

d wrote: > Gwendolyn struggles out of the crypt and into play by around round 3. > She immediately sets herself up for this by using Masochism. > Meanwhile, her predator has already brought out Frederick the Weak for > a turn two bleed and equipped with the Eye of Hazimel. > Next turn he rushes Gwen and Traps her. > In the resulting combat, Gwen plays Superior Mettle while "Weak"-o > counters with Fire in the Bloodx8 and Apparition. As already declared > Gwen's a Masochist so she stretches combat past rounds 4 and 8 with > some other damage prevent cards like.. Rolling with the Punches. > By round 11 Gwen is out of blood and takes 89 damage getting 90 > counters on her Masochism. > After Gwen gets a rescue, FtW damn well rushes her again. > He plays his last 78 Fire in the Bloods, his trap, and his Apparition. > Gwen then top decks 87 Skin of Steel. In round 88, FtW hits her for > 7021 hand damage, she's out of library cards and hits the dirt hard. At > least for a turn.. > (Meanwhile, at the rest of the table Meth B's prey and grandprey are > contesting Dimple and are handjammed on stealth cards. Meth A's prey > brings Enkidu out and turns out to be sitting on a stack of Freak > Drives and Victim of Habit. <sarcasm>I'd say, very **realistic** and funny scenario...</sarcasm> Except for this part: Gwen and FtW's controllers are soon ousted > and Enkidu's methusalah laughs all the way to the bank.) !?!?!? In what world Enkidu does manage to be successfull at anything but a single VP? That's just not possible, he is cursed by God. Or would it be Caine? ;-) Fabio "Sooner" Macedo

> Ah, LSJ has good clarifications. > > The damage must be successfully inflicted (all at once). So that implies > it would have to be in 1 round of combat. If everyone is helping you to inflict said damage, you can have minions progressively stack 90 mark of damnation on a single vampire. End result? 445*2 + crimson sentinel damage. Just saying. :) Ankur Gupta Prince of West Lafayette

> By round 11 Gwen is out of blood and takes 89 damage getting 90 counters > on her Masochism. This probably doesn't work anyway, because you can't have more counters on masochism than your capacity. You'd have to clan impersonate to Lasombra and get 79 camarilla vitae slaves. [ quoted text not captured ]

>> The damage must be successfully inflicted (all at once). So that >> implies it would have to be in 1 round of combat. > > If everyone is helping you to inflict said damage, you can have minions > progressively stack 90 mark of damnation on a single vampire. End > result? 445*2 + crimson sentinel damage. For that matter, with n Methuselahs playing the game, the formula becomes something like: 90*n + 85 + crimson sentinel damage Is there a time limit? [ quoted text not captured ]

Oh ouch my Masochism plan was WORST EVAR. Can rewrite with Protean skill cards, Flesh of Marble at inferior and a Claws of the Dead. Then you can stretch combat to round Nx4 where N is the number of free combat cards left in both decks after set up. Of course this would burn poor Gwendolyn... Also, FtW really is the wrong man for the job. It's got to be little Basir with the Crimson Sentinal, followed by Baal's Bloody Talons....

With ony 2 Methuselahs, both bring out an arbitrary number of Hungry Sisters (recouping pool with Powerbases). Then use Coagulated Entity to get +X strength, where X is arbitrarily large (based on the number of Sisters brought out). Pop quiz: In a two player game (60 card libraries), with each Methuselah bringing out only 1 vampire each, on the second player's 4th turn (which is the 8th turn of the game), the first action of the game is attempted, blocked, and in the resulting combat, one combatant is struck by a hand strike for over 50,000 damage. What happened?

LSJ wrote: > With ony 2 Methuselahs, both bring out an arbitrary number of Hungry > Sisters (recouping pool with Powerbases). Then use Coagulated Entity to > get +X strength, where X is arbitrarily large (based on the number of > Sisters brought out). > > Pop quiz: > > In a two player game (60 card libraries), with each Methuselah bringing > out only 1 vampire each, on the second player's 4th turn (which is the > 8th turn of the game), the first action of the game is attempted, doh! Glossed over one round -- Has to wait until Player 2's 5th turn, which is the 10th turn ofthe game, and the action is the 3rd action of the game. Bah. [ quoted text not captured ]

Would dragos with THA and eldritch glimmer work

Would Dragos with THA and eldritch glimmer work ?

Billy_bob_colgate wrote: > Would dragos with THA and eldritch glimmer work Dragos's special doesn't work for burn blood effects. and needs to be a handstrike. oscar

d wrote: > Gwendolyn struggles out of the crypt and into play by around round 3. > She immediately sets herself up for this by using Masochism. > Since Masochism doesn't work, can't you just replace Gwendolyn with Cardano and an Ankara Citadel? Free Skin of Steel - also could use Kyoko Shinswegawa, as the cheapest Tremere with fortitude. Or, even better, use Etrius, with a Fortitude skill card. Replace Freddie with Lambach. Etrius gets a Fortitude Skill card and an Ankara Citadel. Lambach gets the Eye of Hazimel. Etrius hunts. Next turn, he bleeds, gets blocked, and declines to play any pre-range. Lambach plays Apparition and 88x Fire in the Blood. Etrius, seeing his opening, plays Trap and inferior Flesh of Marble. Etrius takes 1 point of damage in rounds 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 11, 12, 14, 15, and 17. That's 12 rounds of taking 1 damage each round. Every other round, he plays a Skin of Steel. After 86 Skins of Steel (now in the 99th round of combat), Etrius has no cards left, and Lambach strikes for 8714 damage, burning a blood to make his hand damage aggravated, completely incinerating Etrius.

Thabnks I was not sure. I really thought Dragos ability works with eldritch glimmer.sinc it works with hidden strenght. Thank you for the answer.

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006, LSJ wrote: > LSJ wrote: >> blocked, and in the resulting combat, one combatant is struck by a hand >> strike for over 50,000 damage. >> >> What happened? Some spoiler space.... Player 1 and 2 each bring out a vampire with aus for THA. They each take an action to acquire Ecstatic Agony. Player 2 bleeds, Player 1 blocks. Each vampire plays Weather Control at superior. One of them plays Trap. Each player alternates extending the trap by playing Blood Rage at superior. When needed, each player plays Undead Persistance at basic. Combat lasts for (57 + 56) * 3 = 339 rounds (6 less if you need to use Fortitude masters), at the end of which each minion is striking for over 50,000 damage. I believe the actual total is around 115,000. However, if one more action apiece is allowed for set-up, the maximum damage value can reach several million handily. Marc G.

[ quoted text not captured ] Could be. That's pretty close to what I was thinking. You're working with WC -- replacing with Fire in the Blood gets more damage into the final hand strike (rather than environmental from WC). Using both would go even farther. For simplicity, assume just FitB (and just one of those -- that's sufficient -- although you could stack them to get reallybig numbers). Two vamps: Lazvernius and Enkidu Enkidu gets Auspex. Each takes actions to get Ecstatic Agony. Bleed. Block. Enter combat. Both play superior Fire in the Blood. Each plays Undead Persistence as soon as they would go to torpor. (3,3) [4,4] Laz plays Trap. Round1: punch for 4 each (base +2 special +1 FitB) Round2: punch for 9 each (base +2 special +2 FitB +4 EA) Round3: punch for 15 each (base +2 special +3 FitB +9 EA) Round4: punch for 22 each (base +2 special +4 FitB +15 EA) RoundN: punch for N*(N+7)/2 each With 56 cards left each, for a total of 112, combat can last 112*3 = 336 rounds. Plus a press from the Ecstatic = 337 rounds. Damage inflicted with each hand strike on the last round: 337*344/2 = 57964 More if the cards that were used to continue the mayhem had been Undead Strengths or similar.

I want to solve LSJ's puzzle. My first thought is that he has found a way to get arbitrarily many rounds of combat and is using Fire in the Blood, ... but why 50,000? My second thought is that he's using Island of Yiaros and somehow has 50,000 votes... But it's not coming together.... I will solve it though.

You would have a difficult time being in combat/striking when you are in the middle of a vote. -johnmeier

Dammit, I wasted too much time trying to fit the parameters exactly... but do I get bonus points for reaching 10^44? Game start 1. Player one transfers 1 to Dragos 2. Player two plays the Parthenon and transfers 2 to Maldavis. 3. Player one transfers 3 to Dragos. 4. Player two transfers 2, brings Maldavis into play. 5. Player one transfers 3, brings Dragos into play. 6. Player two plays Potence (skill card) on Maldavis, taps Parthenon, plays another Potence on Maldavis, then has Maldavis play superior Ecstatic Ecstasy. (action 1) 7. Player one has Dragos play superior Ecstatic Ecstasy (action 2). 8. Player two plays Fortitude on Dragos. 9. Player one twiddles his thumbs. 10. Player two plays plays Potence (skill card) on Dragos, taps Parthenon, plays another Potence on Dragos. Maldavis attempts to bleed, Dragos blocks. Player one plays 59 Fire in the Blood. Player two plays 4 Fire in the Blood and a Trap. Maldavis strikes hands for 5. Dragos strikes hands for 60. Both players play basic Undead Persistance. (player one is now out of cards) They are now slapping each other for tons of damage and will not go to torpor (as long as UP still works) Trap presses to continue. In round 2, Maldavis will strike for 5+4+60=69 total damage (dude!). Dragos will strike for 60+59+5=124. Player two has 48 cards left in deck. She only needs to play one combat card every 3 rounds to keep this combat going. So lets say that player two has 49 Aura Readings (could be more damage with Undead Strengths!), and plays one every third round (playing the first one at round 4) So we can make it to round (48*3)+1=145. By my Excel sheet, we cross the 50k damage threshold at round 11. Round# Mal Dragos 1 5 60 2 69 124 3 197 252 4 453 508 5 965 1020 6 1989 2044 7 4037 4092 8 8133 8188 9 16325 16380 10 32709 32764 11 65477 65532 12 131013 131068 13 262085 262140 144 7.13624E+44 7.13624E+44 -Matt H.

In message <1140806315.7...@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> writes: >> Pop quiz: >> >> In a two player game (60 card libraries), with each Methuselah bringing >> out only 1 vampire each, on the second player's 4th turn (which is the >> 8th turn of the game), the first action of the game is attempted, > >doh! Glossed over one round -- Has to wait until Player 2's 5th turn, >which >is the 10th turn ofthe game, and the action is the 3rd action of the >game. > >Bah. > >> blocked, and in the resulting combat, one combatant is struck by a hand >> strike for over 50,000 damage. >> Player 1 brings out any vampire with aus / for. Happens turn 2, there are plenty of aus / for vampires for under 5. Let's say Juan Cali. Player 2 plays Info Highway. 4 to Dragos. Turn 2, Dragos comes out. So on turn 3, Juan Cali plays Ecstatic Agony. Turn 4, he plays another. Turn 3, Dragos gets Vicissitude (superior) and Fortitude (inferior) from discipline cards. Turn 4, Dragos acts. Juan Cali plays Wake, or something, and blocks. Someone plays Trap, and during this combat, both vampires will play Undead Persistence to stick around. Take that as read. Turn 1: Dragos and Juan both inflict 1 damage. Dragos plays Blood of Acid for free at inferior. 2 damage on Juan total. Turn 2: Juan will be doing +2 from each Ecstatic Agony, +4. Dragos has 1. Dragos plays Blood of Acid. 6 total on Juan. Turn 3: Juan will be doing +6 from each Ecstatic Agony, BoA, 13 from Juan, 14 back to him. Turn 4: Juan will be doing 14 from each Ecstatic Agony, 29 damage. 30 done to Juan. Turn 5: 30 * 2 + 1 (Juan's base strength) + 1 (Dragos) = 62. Turn 6: 126 Turn 7: 254 Turn 8: 510 Turn 9: 1024 Turn 10: 2050 Turn 11: 4102 Turn 12: 8206 Turn 13: 16414 Turn 14: 32830 Turn 15: 65662 -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006, LSJ wrote: > Marc Gabriele wrote: >> >> Some spoiler space.... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > Could be. That's pretty close to what I was thinking. > > You're working with WC -- replacing with Fire in the Blood gets more > damage into the final hand strike (rather than environmental from WC). > Using both would go even farther. True. WC was more card efficient in that each one was worth a FitB for each minion. > More if the cards that were used to continue the mayhem had been Undead > Strengths or similar. The plan for the Even Bigger Strike was getting an extra set-up action to get superior Masochism, which would provide enough counters to allow each minion to continue the Trap with superior King of the Mountain. I didn't actually work out the math for that one, but I'm pretty certain it would be impressive. Marc G.

On 24 Feb 2006 10:38:35 -0800, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > LSJ wrote: >> Pop quiz: >> >> In a two player game (60 card libraries), with each Methuselah bringing >> out only 1 vampire each, on the second player's 4th turn (which is the >> 8th turn of the game), the first action of the game is attempted, > > doh! Glossed over one round -- Has to wait until Player 2's 5th turn, > which > is the 10th turn ofthe game, and the action is the 3rd action of the > game. > > Bah. > >> blocked, and in the resulting combat, one combatant is struck by a hand >> strike for over 50,000 damage. >> >> What happened? I'll take a shot at it. This will be long and pretty dull. Sorry, I'm not having a witty day... ;( The decks: Player A: Crypt: Dragos ×12 Library: Potence ×1 Fortitude ×1 Ecstatic Agony ×1 Fire in the Blood ×55 Drawing out the Beast ×1 Undead Persistance ×1 Player B: Crypt: Lazverinus ×12 Library: Potence ×1 Animalism ×1 Ecstatic Agony ×1 Trap ×1 Fire in the Blood ×17 Drawing out the Beast ×1 Undead Persistance ×1 Taste of Vitae ×1 Increased Strength ×35 Undead Strength ×1 Player A influences out out Dragos (3rd round); Player B influences out Lazverinus (3rd round). Turn 4: A: Potence on Dragos, Ecstatic Agony superior with Dragos. B: Potence on Dragos, Ecstatic Agony superior with Lazverinus. Turn 5: A: Fortitude on Dragos. B: Animalism on Lazverinus, Bleed for 1, Dragos blocks. Combat Round 1: B: Trap, Fire in the Blood superior × 10, Drawing out the Bease inferior, no manoeuvre. Strike hands for 14, play Undead Persistance inferior, Taste of Vitae for 7. A: Fire in the Blood superior ×55, Drawing out the Beast superior, no manoeuvre, strike hands for 57, play Undead Persistance inferior. Round 2: B: Fire in the Blood superior ×7, no manoeuvre, strike hands for 89. A: no prerange, no manoeuvre, strike hands for 126. Round 3: B: no prerange, no manoeuvre, strike hands for 175. A: no prerange, no manoeuvre, strike hands for 256. ...hand strikes basically increase as the guys hit eachother. We have a Trap in effect, plus two free presses for each combatant (to be used at the end of combat). Player B still has 36 cards in hand, 35 of which are Increased Strengths, which he can freely play every third round, when the press would be over. Combat happily continues for 108 rounds. At the 109th round (player B only has one card left) Lazverinus plays Undead Strength, striking for 214844 instead of the measly 214772 he would have struck for otherwise without the extra 72 damage. The 110th and 111th rounds pass uneventfully, Dragos uses his press on the 112th and Lazverinus on the 113th round. Round 114th: B: no prerange, no manoeuvre, strike hands for 237897. A: no prerange, no manoeuvre, strike hands for 237134. ...I guess either is more than 50,000. ;) Just for the record, during this mostly uneventful combat a total of 18,249,439 damage was inflicted (though admittedly only 18,249,325 was from hand strikes, the remaining 114 damage was inflicted by the superior Drawing). -- Bye, Daneel

Crypt: 12 copies of vampire A who has superior potence Library: Increased Strength X 500+ Undead Strength X 3 Trap X 1 Dead-End Alley X 2 Vampire A waits and blocks vampire B. You then play 700 copies of Increased strength followed by a Trap. You are garrunteed to draw into all the cards you need since the deck only has 6 cards that are not increased strength. Wait until strikes and play Undead Strength for a total of 1003+ (500 X 2 + 3 = 1003). If they dodge you can press to continue and repeat for the next 2 rounds. Note there is no limit to the amount of damage you can do with this tech. It just depends on how many increased strengths you play. d wrote: > First person to come up with a scenario where vampire A inflicts more > than 1000 damage to vampire B wins hands down! Only entries of 90 > damage or more will be considered. > > I'm currently perfecting my strategy. When I figure out what the > absolute maximum amount of damage inflictable with current cards is, > I'll be looking for a statistician to figure out how likely it is that > you could actually draw the cards in the correct order to bring about > this gigantic walloping. > > > > Note: Eldritch Glimmer requires you to burn X blood (it only *costs* 1 > blood). You're not going to get 90+ blood on 1 vampire at any given > time, so don't even think about it.

[ quoted text not captured ] Hello! I can't tell from your post whether you had the difference explained to you. Hidden Strength has an X for the blood cost specifically, so it's part of the cost. Eldritch Glimmer just has the cost of one, then you burn X blood. The burning blood part isn't technically part of the "cost," it's more a part of the effect. So that's why they're different.

[ quoted text not captured ] Thank you for turning VtES into Dragonball Z for me. I'm off to go cry now.

Matt Hirsch wrote: > Dammit, I wasted too much time trying to fit the parameters exactly... > but do I get bonus points for reaching 10^44? Very impressive. And nicely laid out. Sure, you get a bonus. [ quoted text not captured ] -- That is my story, be it bitter or be it sweet. Keep a little and let a little come back to me. LSJ (vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply) http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Marandamir wrote: > Crypt: > 12 copies of vampire A who has superior potence > > Library: > Increased Strength X 500+ > Undead Strength X 3 > Trap X 1 > Dead-End Alley X 2 Impossible in a 90-card Library.

Maybe I am missing something from Ecstatic Agony, if the Damage is prevented, is it considered successfully inflicted? Cheers

If you use Undead Persistance, the damage is successfully inflicted, but the vampire does not go to torpor because of it. -johnmeier

d wrote: > First person to come up with a scenario where vampire A inflicts more > than 1000 damage to vampire B wins hands down! Only entries of 90 > damage or more will be considered. Isn't the obvious answer a deck of 1 Torn Signpost, 85 Increased Strength, 5 Undead Strength, and a Lightning Reflexes: Gwendolyn gets in a fight. Plays 1 Torn Signpost and 85 Increased Strength (+173 hand damage). She Strikes with Undead Strength for 175 damage. She plays Lightning Reflexes for 9 extra strikes (10 blood). She plays 4 more Undead Strength for 4 more strikes of 175 damage. She hits the the Torn Signpost for the remaining 5 extra strikes for another 15 damage. Damn. That's only 890 damage. -Peter

pd...@lightlink.com wrote: > d wrote: > > First person to come up with a scenario where vampire A inflicts more > > than 1000 damage to vampire B wins hands down! Only entries of 90 > > damage or more will be considered. > > Isn't the obvious answer a deck of 1 Torn Signpost, 85 Increased > Strength, 5 Undead Strength, and a Lightning Reflexes: 92 card deck! Cheater! I'm callin' a judge! (wait, I don't think he's around, crap) > Gwendolyn gets in a fight. Plays 1 Torn Signpost and 85 Increased > Strength (+173 hand damage). She Strikes with Undead Strength for 175 > damage. She plays Lightning Reflexes for 9 extra strikes (10 blood). > She plays 4 more Undead Strength for 4 more strikes of 175 damage. She > hits the the Torn Signpost for the remaining 5 extra strikes for > another 15 damage. > > Damn. That's only 890 damage. However, if you have 79 Increased Strength, 1 Torn Signpost, 1 Lightning Reflexes and 9 Undead Strengths, you can hit 9 times for 163 damage each, total of 1467 damage. -Matt

Matt Hirsch wrote: > 92 card deck! Cheater! I'm callin' a judge! (wait, I don't think he's > around, crap) Damn! I knew my math was dubious. > However, if you have 79 Increased Strength, 1 Torn Signpost, 1 > Lightning Reflexes and 9 Undead Strengths, you can hit 9 times for 163 > damage each, total of 1467 damage. True. But I was tyring to be "realistic" (ya know, as much as possible given the preposterous confines of the problem), and with more than 6 cards that aren't Increased Strength, you can end up with a stopped hand--if your opening hand is, say, 7 Undead Strength, you are shut down. So by having a maximum of 6 cards that don't flow freely, you never get a hand jam--you can freely play Increased Strength till you run out, and then have the 6 necessary cards in your hand. Lemme see if there is a better way to do this--Nah. Probably not. You need the Lightning Reflexes (for the 9-10 additional strikes), Torn Signpost (3 hand damage on the non Increased strikes), and then max out on 5 Potence strikes (necessary for the Increaseds to work). Cards that cost blood (Fists of Death, Pushing the Limit) aren't worth playing, as the additional strikes from Lightning Reflexes are worth more damage. Ooh! Maybe a single Fists of Death might pay off: 1x Torn Signpost (3 hand damage base) 1x Fists of Death (5 hand damage base, -1 blood) 1x Lighning Reflexes (9 additional strikes, -9 blood) 82x Increased Strength (+164 hand damage per Potence strike) 5x Undead Strength (171 damage per strike) So Gwendolyn with 11 blood gets in a fight. She plays TS and FoD, and then 82 Increased. She hits with US (171 damage) gets hit for 1, her opponent plays Skin of Steel at superior. She then plays LR for 8 additional strikes (9 blood, -1 for FoD, -1 for a point of damage). Playing 4 more Undead Strength (684 more damage) and then 4 more strikes for 5 each (20 more damage). 875 damage. Damn. How did that go down? Oh, yeah, less cheating. -Peter

On 2 Mar 2006 09:34:22 -0800, <pd...@lightlink.com> wrote: > True. But I was tyring to be "realistic" (ya know, as much as possible > given the preposterous confines of the problem), and with more than 6 > cards that aren't Increased Strength, you can end up with a stopped > hand--if your opening hand is, say, 7 Undead Strength, you are shut > down. You could try the Anarch angle. If you don't mind outside-of-combat effects or merged vampires, you could go with something like this: 1× Lightning Reflexes 1× Improvised Tactics 1× Backstep 87× Increased Strength Assuming something like a 7-8-cap that's at least 7 × 176 (1232) damage. -- Bye, Daneel

Daneel wrote: > 1× Lightning Reflexes > 1× Improvised Tactics > 1× Backstep > 87× Increased Strength > > Assuming something like a 7-8-cap that's at least 7 × 176 (1232) damage. Ooh! That's hot, what with the Improvised Tactics and all. Nice! -Peter