Sorry, if this seems like a simple question...
What *exactly* constitutes the term "in play"?
This question derives from the wording on the card Sensory
Deprivation(Chimestry Action).
Okay, once you have answered this, then what about Reality(Chimestry Action)
and Sensory Deprivation(Political Action); how does this effect your
defininition of "in play"
(if need be I can give specific game scenarios to illustrate)
Thanks,
-RR
"Eric" <som...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:JPdhb.174141$3o3.12...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Sorry, if this seems like a simple question...
>
> What *exactly* constitutes the term "in play"?
>
> This question derives from the wording on the card Sensory
> Deprivation(Chimestry Action).
(not in the ash heap
+not in the uncontrolled region
+ not in your hand
+ not in the library
+ not removed from the game
+ not contested) = card in play.
Eric wrote:
> Sorry, if this seems like a simple question...
>
> What *exactly* constitutes the term "in play"?
In some player's controlled area (and not contested).
> This question derives from the wording on the card Sensory
> Deprivation(Chimestry Action).
>
> Okay, once you have answered this, then what about Reality(Chimestry Action)
> and Sensory Deprivation(Political Action); how does this effect your
> defininition of "in play"
Application of a definition doesn't change the definition.
>
> (if need be I can give specific game scenarios to illustrate)
>
> Thanks,
>
> -RR
>
>
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Reyda expounded:
[ quoted text not captured ]
You missed out "not on a vampire in the uncontrolled region eg.a
banished vampire's kit" (though I suppose that arguably puts them in the
uncontrolled region but it's worth mentioning explicitly)
Eric expounded:
> Sorry, if this seems like a simple question...
>
> What *exactly* constitutes the term "in play"?
>
> This question derives from the wording on the card Sensory
> Deprivation(Chimestry Action).
>
> Okay, once you have answered this, then what about Reality(Chimestry Action)
> and Sensory Deprivation(Political Action); how does this effect your
In what way is Sens Dep a political action?
> > Okay, once you have answered this, then what about Reality(Chimestry
Action)
> > and Sensory Deprivation(Political Action); how does this effect your
> > defininition of "in play"
>
> Application of a definition doesn't change the definition.
>
So, to further clarify the point with an example. Vamp A Sense Dep Vamp B,
Vamp A is later banished, while banished, Vamp B untaps as normal, when A
returns, he remembers all of his past relationships and Vamp B is affected
by the sense dep again. JIC if a second copy of Vamp A enters play for
whatever reason and the original is still uncontrolled, Vamp B is still able
to untap.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Actually, cards on out-of-play cards are out-of-play themselves, by
default. So Banishment has been living on stealth errata (the obvious
one) for quite some time now, like Thanks for the Donation before
it got reworded.
But, in short, any card that has been put into play and has not been
removed from play is "in play". This is, effectively, all face-up
cards on the table (not in the ash heap or in the hand, etc.).
[ quoted text not captured ]
Metropolis wrote:
>>>Okay, once you have answered this, then what about Reality(Chimestry>>> Action)
>>>>and Sensory Deprivation(Political Action); how does this effect your
>>>defininition of "in play">>
>>Application of a definition doesn't change the definition.
>>>
> So, to further clarify the point with an example. Vamp A Sense Dep Vamp B,
> Vamp A is later banished, while banished, Vamp B untaps as normal, when A
> returns, he remembers all of his past relationships and Vamp B is affected
> by the sense dep again. JIC if a second copy of Vamp A enters play for
No. Sense Dep has no effect once A leaves play. There is no provision to
restart the "no untap" effect, nor to start a new "no untap" effect.
The "no untap" effect exists from the time the action resolves until
that vampire (A) leaves play. That is, it lasts as long as A remains
in play and no longer.
> whatever reason and the original is still uncontrolled, Vamp B is still able
> to untap.
Once A has left play (via contesting, Banishment, or whatever), the effect
of Sense Dep is concluded.
[ quoted text not captured ]
LSJ expounded:
> Timlagor wrote:
> > Reyda expounded:> >>>What *exactly* constitutes the term "in play"?
> >>>
> >>>This question derives from the wording on the card Sensory
> >>>Deprivation(Chimestry Action).
> >>
> >>(not in the ash heap
> >>+not in the uncontrolled region
> >>+ not in your hand
> >>+ not in the library
> >>+ not removed from the game
> >>+ not contested) = card in play.
> >
> >
> > You missed out "not on a vampire in the uncontrolled region eg.a
> > banished vampire's kit" (though I suppose that arguably puts them in the
> > uncontrolled region but it's worth mentioning explicitly)
> >
>
> Actually, cards on out-of-play cards are out-of-play themselves, by
> default. So Banishment has been living on stealth errata (the obvious
> one) for quite some time now, like Thanks for the Donation before
> it got reworded.
Yes. You may notice that out-of-play doesn't feature in the list above -
unless you interpret "removed from the game" as out-of-play which I
don't. The only other category they could come under in the list above
is "in the uncontrolled region" since they are on a vampire there.
I'll sotp being petty for a bit now ;-)
Timlagor wrote:
> LSJ expounded:>>Timlagor wrote:>>>Reyda expounded:>>>>>What *exactly* constitutes the term "in play"?
>>>>>This question derives from the wording on the card Sensory
>>>>>Deprivation(Chimestry Action).>>>>(not in the ash heap
>>>>+not in the uncontrolled region
>>>>+ not in your hand
>>>>+ not in the library
>>>>+ not removed from the game
>>>>+ not contested) = card in play.>>>
>>>You missed out "not on a vampire in the uncontrolled region eg.a
>>>banished vampire's kit" (though I suppose that arguably puts them in the
>>>uncontrolled region but it's worth mentioning explicitly)
>>>>>Actually, cards on out-of-play cards are out-of-play themselves, by
>>default. So Banishment has been living on stealth errata (the obvious
>>one) for quite some time now, like Thanks for the Donation before
>>it got reworded.>
> Yes. You may notice that out-of-play doesn't feature in the list above -
Any card not in play is out of play, by definition.
> unless you interpret "removed from the game" as out-of-play which I
> don't. The only other category they could come under in the list above
You consider a card that has been removed from the game to be in play?
> is "in the uncontrolled region" since they are on a vampire there.
The point is that, as written, Banishment is never in play. It is played
to an uncontrolled vampire, so is out of play. It effectively has errata
saying that it remains in play even though it is on an out of play card.
[ quoted text not captured ]
LSJ expounded:
> Timlagor wrote:
> > LSJ expounded:
> >>Timlagor wrote:
> >>>Reyda expounded:
> >>>>>What *exactly* constitutes the term "in play"?
> >>>>>This question derives from the wording on the card Sensory
> >>>>>Deprivation(Chimestry Action).
> >>>>(not in the ash heap
> >>>>+not in the uncontrolled region
> >>>>+ not in your hand
> >>>>+ not in the library
> >>>>+ not removed from the game
> >>>>+ not contested) = card in play.
> >>>
> >>>You missed out "not on a vampire in the uncontrolled region eg.a
> >>>banished vampire's kit" (though I suppose that arguably puts them in the
> >>>uncontrolled region but it's worth mentioning explicitly)
> >>>
> >>Actually, cards on out-of-play cards are out-of-play themselves, by
> >>default. So Banishment has been living on stealth errata (the obvious
> >>one) for quite some time now, like Thanks for the Donation before
> >>it got reworded.
> >
> > Yes. You may notice that out-of-play doesn't feature in the list above -
>
> Any card not in play is out of play, by definition.
Yes. Since we are trying to define what constitutes "in play" that is
not very helpful. He was definiing "in play" as everything on the list
and I was pointing out that cards on banished vampires didn't obviously
fit into his list (although arguably under cards in the uncontrolled
region).
> > unless you interpret "removed from the game" as out-of-play which I
> > don't. The only other category they could come under in the list above
>
> You consider a card that has been removed from the game to be in play?
No I don't consider all cards that have been put 'out-of-play' to be
removed from the game -eg a Banished or Burned Vampire has not imo been
"removed from the game" but nor are they "in play".
> > is "in the uncontrolled region" since they are on a vampire there.
>
> The point is that, as written, Banishment is never in play. It is played
> to an uncontrolled vampire, so is out of play. It effectively has errata
> saying that it remains in play even though it is on an out of play card.
I don't understand this at all. As I saw it Banishment goes straight
from your hand to your ashheap and is therefore never in play (but
causing a card (vampire) in play to leave play if successful). I was not
talking about the Banishment card which never goes near a vampire. I'm
not sure what you are talking about here: Brainwash?
I was referring to cards already on the Vampire that gets banished
(equipment/blood dolls/etc.). They are no longer in play but that is not
obvious from the list above -since the card says explicitly that any
cards on the vampire are out of play it wasn't really important but I
thought it might make things clearer in light of the questioner's
reference to Reality.
your definition was better anyway :-)
E-gads...
I was using ELDB and it appears my db got corrupted some how... (I think it
might have been from having multiple copies of it open) Anyway, the card
that I mistakenly called Sense Dep (political) was actually Banishment.
sorry about the error. (I have corrected my ELDB DB :)
-RR
"Timlagor" <Timlagor...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.19efaa223...@news.freeserve.com...
[ quoted text not captured ]
Timlagor wrote:
>>The point is that, as written, Banishment is never in play. It is played
>>to an uncontrolled vampire, so is out of play. It effectively has errata
>>saying that it remains in play even though it is on an out of play card.>
> I don't understand this at all. As I saw it Banishment goes straight
Ugh.
Replace Banishment for Brainwash in all of my statements regarding
stealth errata.
Ugh. Again.
Sorry about that.
[ quoted text not captured ]
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote
> > whatever reason and the original is still uncontrolled, Vamp B is still
able
> > to untap.
>
> Once A has left play (via contesting, Banishment, or whatever), the effect
> of Sense Dep is concluded.
Excuse me but why didn't you rewrite Sensory deprivation so the card burns
when the vamp who played the card leaves play ?
It would have been much simpler and intuitive !
(since you changed the card text to put the card on the vampire, you should
have changed it to the point it's easier to understand on all points ! =/ )
> > So, to further clarify the point with an example. Vamp A Sense Dep
Vamp B,
> > Vamp A is later banished, while banished, Vamp B untaps as normal, when
A
> > returns, he remembers all of his past relationships and Vamp B is
affected
> > by the sense dep again. JIC if a second copy of Vamp A enters play for
>
> No. Sense Dep has no effect once A leaves play. There is no provision to
> restart the "no untap" effect, nor to start a new "no untap" effect.
> The "no untap" effect exists from the time the action resolves until
> that vampire (A) leaves play. That is, it lasts as long as A remains
> in play and no longer.
>
> > whatever reason and the original is still uncontrolled, Vamp B is still
able
> > to untap.
>
> Once A has left play (via contesting, Banishment, or whatever), the effect
> of Sense Dep is concluded.
Damn!!
As I was typing that, I had this gut feeling I was wrong, I tried to use
Sense Dep and ...
oops.
Thanks
David
On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 13:41:24 -0400, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com>
scrawled:
[snip]
>Once A has left play (via contesting, Banishment, or whatever), the effect
>of Sense Dep is concluded.
So Sensory Dep's text is a bit silly, and could have been a bit
clearer with something like:
'the vampire with this card does not untap as normal. burn this card
when the acting vampire leaves play'.
as it is, when the acting vampire leaves play, you leave the sense dep
on the victim, with the sense dep card doing nothing other than
preventing some necromancer fishing it out of an ash heap.
salem
domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm
Reyda wrote:
> "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote
>
>>>>whatever reason and the original is still uncontrolled, Vamp B is still>>> able
>>>>to untap.>>
>>Once A has left play (via contesting, Banishment, or whatever), the effect
>>of Sense Dep is concluded.>
>
> Excuse me but why didn't you rewrite Sensory deprivation so the card burns
> when the vamp who played the card leaves play ?
It didn't warrant changing.
> It would have been much simpler and intuitive !
>
> (since you changed the card text to put the card on the vampire, you should
> have changed it to the point it's easier to understand on all points ! =/ )
That change didn't represent a functional change, just a move to brevity.
[ quoted text not captured ]