Ok, Non-Camarilla vamps can call votes to make them prince (etc.)
So (damn, where's that card...) uh, Praxis Seizure: Venice -->
'Successful vote (blabla) declared prince of Venice...
Each Giovanni gets one additional vote for this political action
(So, Giovanni CAN vote in this instance???)
If (IF???) the vapire declared prince is not Giovanni, tap all Giovanni.
Sooooooo... That means if Giovanni (or any Non-Cammie) vamps can't call
political actions, a Giovanni could not be declared prince of Venice and
therefore this card could be used to tap all Giovanni.
Oooh, maybe that's the point.
It's not nessisarily a political card to gain power
But to reduce the power of the Giovanni...
Cool!
I LIKE! :P~~~
Wow! Better take that out of my Giovanni deck!
Anvil, the oh so confused Vamp in Ivory-Tower.
In article <Dx4DL...@blaze.trentu.ca>, apr...@ivory.trentu.ca wrote:
> Ok, Non-Camarilla vamps can call votes to make them prince (etc.)
> So (damn, where's that card...) uh, Praxis Seizure: Venice -->
> 'Successful vote (blabla) declared prince of Venice...
> Each Giovanni gets one additional vote for this political action
> (So, Giovanni CAN vote in this instance???)
> If (IF???) the vapire declared prince is not Giovanni, tap all Giovanni.
>
> Sooooooo... That means if Giovanni (or any Non-Cammie) vamps can't call
> political actions, a Giovanni could not be declared prince of Venice and
> therefore this card could be used to tap all Giovanni.
But they can be princes with cards like Giovanni Acceptance that allows
all Cam items for Giovanni too! Or even with AH a Writ of Acceptance.
Randy
> So (damn, where's that card...) uh, Praxis Seizure: Venice -->> (So, Giovanni CAN vote in this instance???)
> If (IF???) the vapire declared prince is not Giovanni, tap all Giovanni.
>
> Sooooooo... That means if Giovanni (or any Non-Cammie) vamps can't call
> political actions, a Giovanni could not be declared prince of Venice and
> therefore this card could be used to tap all Giovanni.
In that vote, Giovanni get votes, but cannot necessarily CALL it. I
think the concept is that Venice is CRAWLING with Giovanni influence, and
any controlled Giovanni vampires can make it harder to take "their"
city. Note: there is no Prince of Venice vampire... and Agustus likes it
that way. :)
Call a Giovanni Acceptance, or equip a Writ of Acceptance and take
whatever cities you want. But a non-Caramello political grab has to get
over the initial "acceptance hump" before anything else.
> Oooh, maybe that's the point.
> It's not nessisarily a political card to gain power
> But to reduce the power of the Giovanni...
OR... you can use it like that, but the controlled Giovanni have extra votes.
> Wow! Better take that out of my Giovanni deck!
Or add some cards to allow your Giovanni to vote. Venice is a great
starting point for a Giovanni political power-grab... except that most
Giovanni decks don't work like that. Most are content to let their prey
choose weather to take massive Potence damage or Dominated bleeds.
Mr. Pynk
---
http://www.wulaw.wustl.edu/~tvbarnha/mr_pynk/
Hello all,
I'm new to this group but not to the game - so if I somehow repeat all
the wisdom/bullshit of others please be patient with me ;-)
ANVIL wrote:
>
> Ok, Non-Camarilla vamps can call votes to make them prince (etc.)> So (damn, where's that card...) uh, Praxis Seizure: Venice -->> 'Successful vote (blabla) declared prince of Venice...
> Each Giovanni gets one additional vote for this political action> (So, Giovanni CAN vote in this instance???)
> If (IF???) the vapire declared prince is not Giovanni, tap all Giovanni.
>
> Sooooooo... That means if Giovanni (or any Non-Cammie) vamps can't call
> political actions, a Giovanni could not be declared prince of Venice and
> therefore this card could be used to tap all Giovanni.
>> Oooh, maybe that's the point.
> It's not nessisarily a political card to gain power
> But to reduce the power of the Giovanni...> Cool!
> I LIKE! :P~~~
There is a card for each of the non-camarilla clans which will turn the
clan in question into a camarilla member (for all practical purposes at
least). I believe this will have to be played before the particular
non-camarilla clan enters the political stage.
But with some of the original clans being *very* good at politics
(especially Ventrue) I haven't seen anybody try to make a e.g. Giovanni
vote deck. I think I would go for a two or three clans in order to bring
in non-camarilla clans in a vote deck.
Anyone had any success with non-camarilla vote decks?
--
Brian Rasmussen
b...@egeberg.dk
apr...@ivory.trentu.ca (ANVIL) writes:
>Ok, Non-Camarilla vamps can call votes to make them prince (etc.)
>So (damn, where's that card...) uh, Praxis Seizure: Venice -->
>'Successful vote (blabla) declared prince of Venice...
> Each Giovanni gets one additional vote for this political action
> (So, Giovanni CAN vote in this instance???)
> If (IF???) the vapire declared prince is not Giovanni, tap all Giovanni.>Sooooooo... That means if Giovanni (or any Non-Cammie) vamps can't call
>political actions, a Giovanni could not be declared prince of Venice and
>therefore this card could be used to tap all Giovanni.
The Giovanni *can* call PS: Venice if they (or just "he") become
Camarilla (through Gio Accepatnce, Writ of Acceptance, etc.)
The same applies to all Non-Cam.
--
L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | > Be careful who you correct.
http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | That should read "Be careful whom
Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | you correct." -- Steffan O'Sullivan
ANVIL (apr...@ivory.trentu.ca) wrote:
: Ok, Non-Camarilla vamps can call votes to make them prince (etc.)
No, they can not call Praxis Seizures... until they are accepted.
They CAN however vote, and call many other votes. LSJ posts rules summaries
now and again, and included in there is the list of things (and votes) that
non-cams can and can not do. Essentially, they can't do Camarilla specific
stuff, but can call other generic votes. And they can ALWAYS vote, if they
have votes.
: So (damn, where's that card...) uh, Praxis Seizure: Venice -->: 'Successful vote (blabla) declared prince of Venice...
: Each Giovanni gets one additional vote for this political action
: (So, Giovanni CAN vote in this instance???)
In this instance, all Giovanni are allowed a vote (so 1 for many, 2 or
3 for others) because it is assumed that Giovanni have a lot of
influence over their home city. None of them are "Prince" of Venice
because "Prince" is a Camarilla title. Until accepted, they can not
be Prince of anything.
BTW, Giovanni CAN become Primogen members.
: If (IF???) the vapire declared prince is not Giovanni, tap all Giovanni.
Again, after acceptance is passed (or a Writ is used) the Giovanni are
no longer non-camarilla vampires, and all non-camarilla restrictions are
lifted.
: Sooooooo... That means if Giovanni (or any Non-Cammie) vamps can't call: political actions, a Giovanni could not be declared prince of Venice and
: therefore this card could be used to tap all Giovanni.
Giovanni (and other non-cams) CAN call political actions. They just can not
call certain Camarilla specific ones, includes Praxis Seizures until accepted.
Once accepted, they can do whatever the heck they want, including becoming
the Prince of Venice.
: Oooh, maybe that's the point. It's not nessisarily a political card: to gain power But to reduce the power of the Giovanni...
It is both. If the Giovanni have been accepted, it is HIGHLY likely that
a Giovanni will be able to seize praxis in their home city. If the Giovanni
have NOT been accepted, it is difficult for anyone else to seize praxis
because any controlled Giovanni get extra votes. In other words, the more
powerful the "tapping" of the Giovanni is (i.e. the more Giovanni that there
are to tap) the less likely the praxis seizure will go through.
: Wow! Better take that out of my Giovanni deck!
If you have Giovanni Acceptance, and it passes first, you have no problem.
: Anvil, the oh so confused Vamp in Ivory-Tower.
I've attached below an excerpt of the Dark Sovereigns/Ancient Hearts Ruling
Summary pertaining to Non-Camarilla Vampires.
-James
Non-Camarilla Vampires:
Cannot be princes, although they can become primogen members. If a
non-Camarilla begins with votes and later gains a title, he loses the
votes he started with, just as if he had lost a title. [RTR]
Cannot call Praxis Seizures, Justicar Retribution, Command of the Harpies,
Masquerade Enforcement, nor a vote to burn Elysium: the Arboretum. [RTR]
Cannot call Camarilla Exemplary. [TOM 951227]
Cannot call a vote to burn Masquerade Enforcement. [TOM 960206]
Can call any votes not listed above. [TOM 960102]
Cannot be chosen as an Archon or Camarilla Exemplary. [RTR]
Suffer the effects of blocking an Archon or Camarilla Exemplary. [RTR]
Assamites -
Cannot commit diablerie because of card text. If an Assamite changes clans,
he still cannot commit diablerie. An assamite without such text would
be able to Diablerize. [TOM 960618]
>Call a Giovanni Acceptance, or equip a Writ of Acceptance and take
>whatever cities you want. But a non-Caramello political grab has to get
>over the initial "acceptance hump" before anything else.
If this is the case, why is it that Stefano Giovanni can burn blood for votes?
Sorrow
[ quoted text not captured ]
I'm not sure how these two relate. Stefano has a power that lets him affect
votes in progress (by burning blood to gain a vote); this has nothing to do
with the clan's Camarilla/Non-Camarilla status.
I.e., there are two meanings represented by 'vote;' a political action
card used to call a vote, and a single vote cast for or against. A Non-
Camarilla vampire can *have* votes, whether inherently (like Regina), by
virtue of a special ability (like Stefano), or by a title (Primogeniture
granted by Of Noble Blood, say), but none of these give them the ability to
*call* votes restricted to Camarilla members only -- for that, you have to
pass the 'acceptance hump,' whether by Writ or Acceptance.
gomi
but can a non-cam Mask to take over a prohibited vote? LSJ?
--
'spend a day and a half dead and the lettuce runs amok.'
-babs woods
In article <50l6ku$6...@shellx.best.com>, Gomi no Sensei <go...@best.com> wrote:
>>>Call a Giovanni Acceptance, or equip a Writ of Acceptance and take
>>>whatever cities you want. But a non-Caramello political grab has to get
>>>over the initial "acceptance hump" before anything else.>>>but can a non-cam Mask to take over a prohibited vote? LSJ?
No. Non-Cam are explicitly prohibited from taking certain actions.
And a minion who is explicitly prohibited from taking an action cannot
use Maskto take over the action (Rules Team Ruling). Assamites cannot
Mask a diablerie attempt, for example. (Unless it's a Camarilla vampire
Impersonating an Assamite, who somehow is devoid of the "cannot diablerize"
restriction by virtue of card text).
You can Mask an action that you lack the skill or clan for,
but you cannot mask an inherent action nor an action that your are
explictly prohibited from doing.
--
-----
L. Scott Johnson (lsc...@crl.com) | The opinions expressed are mine
Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger | and subject to card text
Gomi no Sensei (go...@best.com) wrote:
: but can a non-cam Mask to take over a prohibited vote? LSJ?
Since the current ruling is that you can't take over an action which you are
prohibited from taking, I would say no.
-spongy
> >Call a Giovanni Acceptance, or equip a Writ of Acceptance and take
> >whatever cities you want. But a non-Caramello political grab has to get
> >over the initial "acceptance hump" before anything else.
>> If this is the case, why is it that Stefano Giovanni can burn blood for votes?
Stefano is exerting influence on those whose opinions matter. Perhaps
the Tremere Primogen of Venice owes him a big favor. :) Regardless,
influencing the outcome of a vote and calling a vote are very different
matters. Stefano may be able to pull the right strings to sway opinion, but
he's still not welcome at the Camarilla podium.
Chris Barnhart
---
http://www.wulaw.wustl.edu/~tvbarnha/mr_pynk/
"Chris Barnhart [Mr. Pynk]" writes:
>Stefano is exerting influence on those whose opinions matter. Perhaps
>the Tremere Primogen of Venice owes him a big favor. :) Regardless,
>influencing the outcome of a vote and calling a vote are very different
>matters. Stefano may be able to pull the right strings to sway opinion, but
>he's still not welcome at the Camarilla podium.
It should be pointed out that nothing prohibits a Non-Camarilla
vampire from calling the appriate vote to join the Cammarilla.
Once in place, you can use those Praxis Seizures that refer to
non-sect clans.
--
________________ Priest of Yawgmoth ______
___@^^^^\ / \ and Phyrexian Netrep / \
@ \_____/ David Schwartz \__________________________/ >
(^^^^^\ _______ ___/
\---\ / \ da...@schwartz.manawatu.gen.nz /
\_____________/ \__________________________________/