Mike Ooi wrote:
>
> I would greatly appreciate a definitive ruling on Seeds of Corruption and
> how it affects vampires concerning their text:
>
> Clarifications and Rulings
>
> "Special ability" includes all non-sect, non-title text. (note that this
> only means that the affected vampire cannot do anything that he is allowed
> to do only by special ability - not that he can now overcome some special
> restriction. Assamites still cannot commit diablerie, for example) [LSJ
> 19970801]
>
> This is still somewhat confusing as to what constitutes a restriction, as
> some texts "suggest" weaknesses but not necessarily restrictions. I'm
> actually serious on this one. Maybe it would be easier to understand if we
> could get a ruling on how it affects each of the following vampires. This
> list could get put in the FAQ/FOC/FUQ.
If the text "ability" allows the vampire to do something he cannot normally
do by the stock rules (bleed for a different amount, defect, make a
non-hand strike, take a cardless non-prey-targetting-bleed action, etc.) it
is a special ability. Special abilities are removed by Seeds.
If the text "ability" prevents the vampire from doing something he could
normally do by the stock rules, it is a restriction. Restrictions are not
overcome by Seeds.
The vast majority of the vampires on your list (which seems to list all of the
vampires with any text on them at all beyond titles and sect) are "answered"
trivially from the ruling above. If any of them still pose a question to you,
feel free to elaborate on the confusion found in the card's text.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
LSJ wrote:
>
>
> If the text "ability" allows the vampire to do something he cannot normally
> do by the stock rules (bleed for a different amount, defect, make a
> non-hand strike, take a cardless non-prey-targetting-bleed action, etc.) it
> is a special ability. Special abilities are removed by Seeds.
>
> If the text "ability" prevents the vampire from doing something he could
> normally do by the stock rules, it is a restriction. Restrictions are not
> overcome by Seeds.
>
Uriah Winters special. Is it a restriction or an ability? Antoinette duChamps
special?
Uriahs 'ability' to switch controller may be considered an ability by some,
but most players would consider being forced to pay more blood in order
to play cards a restriction, even though strict card-text actually grants them
the ability to pay extra blood for taking a certain action, which semantically
could be seen as an ability rather than a restriction.
Sten During
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>Uriah Winters special. Is it a restriction or an ability? Antoinette duChamps
>special?
Both special abilities (not restrictions).
>Uriahs 'ability' to switch controller may be considered an ability by some,
>but most players would consider being forced to pay more blood in order
>to play cards a restriction, even though strict card-text actually grants
>them
>the ability to pay extra blood for taking a certain action, which
>semantically
>could be seen as an ability rather than a restriction.
Well, there are always cornercases where disadvantages can become helpful and
advantages can become troublesome.
This isn't an exhaustive list, but let's try to drum up some examples of things
that *are* restrictions:
#1. (Old Assamite card text prohibiting diablerie)
#2. Not being contestable (Jimmy Dunn, Fi'dai, and Aabt Kindred)
#3. Aabt Kindred still cannot perform directed actions w/o Nefertiti.
#4. Beast cannot do action-card stuff, recruit allies, use equipment/retainers.
#5. Gillian Krader cannot do political allies. (I know it's "actions" and I
guess I must have put the wrong word the first time. I thought it was amusing
the way I originally wrote it though!)
#6. Lena Rowe still cannot do political actions to gain titles or gain a title.
#7. If SoC on Moncada, he loses all his text except the cannot block part.
#8. Navar still cannot block older vampires.
#9. Volker still cannot block Primogen.
In general, the key word you look for is "cannot" and see if the text refers to
what that vampire cannot do. (Not what other vampires cannot do. The vampire
with the cannot text is the actor).
* Note that technically, you can reword many negative special abilities to a
cannot form: Igo cannot gain the normal +1 stealth from hunting, Blythe cannot
use the normal 1 strength against Malkavians (or something similar), Rex cannot
play combat cards unless he pays an additional blood. But it doesn't really
work that way (don't ask me why).
So...did I miss any other restrictions?
Halcyan 2
Sten During wrote:
>
> LSJ wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > If the text "ability" allows the vampire to do something he cannot normally
> > do by the stock rules (bleed for a different amount, defect, make a
> > non-hand strike, take a cardless non-prey-targetting-bleed action, etc.) it
> > is a special ability. Special abilities are removed by Seeds.
> >
> > If the text "ability" prevents the vampire from doing something he could
> > normally do by the stock rules, it is a restriction. Restrictions are not
> > overcome by Seeds.
> >
>
> Uriah Winters special. Is it a restriction or an ability? Antoinette duChamps
> special?
>
> Uriahs 'ability' to switch controller may be considered an ability by some,
> but most players would consider being forced to pay more blood in order
> to play cards a restriction, even though strict card-text actually grants them
> the ability to pay extra blood for taking a certain action, which semantically
> could be seen as an ability rather than a restriction.
Uriah's "defect" is an ability - minions cannot switch controllers by the stock
rules.
Antoinette DuChamp's "burn additional blood" is an ability - minions do not burn
additional blood by the stock rules.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Halcyan 2 wrote:
> >Uriah Winters special. Is it a restriction or an ability? Antoinette duChamps
> >special?
>
> Both special abilities (not restrictions).
Correct.
> This isn't an exhaustive list, but let's try to drum up some examples of things
> that *are* restrictions:
>
> #1. (Old Assamite card text prohibiting diablerie)
>
> #2. Not being contestable (Jimmy Dunn, Fi'dai, and Aabt Kindred)
That's "Fida'i" and "Aabbt", BTW. :-)
> #3. Aabt Kindred still cannot perform directed actions w/o Nefertiti.
>
> #4. Beast cannot do action-card stuff, recruit allies, use equipment/retainers.
>
> #5. Gillian Krader cannot do political allies. (I know it's "actions" and I
> guess I must have put the wrong word the first time. I thought it was amusing
> the way I originally wrote it though!)
>
> #6. Lena Rowe still cannot do political actions to gain titles or gain a title.
>
> #7. If SoC on Moncada, he loses all his text except the cannot block part.
And he doesn't lose his title, of course.
> #8. Navar still cannot block older vampires.
>
> #9. Volker still cannot block Primogen.
Correct.
> In general, the key word you look for is "cannot" and see if the text refers to
> what that vampire cannot do. (Not what other vampires cannot do. The vampire
> with the cannot text is the actor).
>
> * Note that technically, you can reword many negative special abilities to a
> cannot form: Igo cannot gain the normal +1 stealth from hunting, Blythe cannot
> use the normal 1 strength against Malkavians (or something similar), Rex cannot
> play combat cards unless he pays an additional blood. But it doesn't really
> work that way (don't ask me why).
Igo has a special restriction "does not gain the usual...".
So I guess the "key words" are "does not" and "cannot" and "are not". :-)
Correct on Blythe and Rex, though.
[ quoted text not captured ]
On Tue, 06 Nov 2001 07:56:25 -0500, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>Halcyan 2 wrote:>>
>> #2. Not being contestable (Jimmy Dunn, Fi'dai, and Aabt Kindred)>
>That's "Fida'i" and "Aabbt", BTW. :-)
You mean "Fido" and "Dear Abby". =)
--
Derek
"Agricultural barbarians? What do THEY do... rape, pillage, and plant?"
LSJ wrote:
>
> Igo has a special restriction "does not gain the usual...".
> So I guess the "key words" are "does not" and "cannot" and "are not". :-)
>> ----
>
Hmm, I don't know if there are any vampires with the wording
'must do X in order to Y'. If so then that might classify as a
restriction as well.
Sten During
> Calvia TerraTel AB http://www.netg.se/[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <3BE7E2C8...@netg.se>, st...@netg.se wrote:
> LSJ wrote:
>
> >
> > Igo has a special restriction "does not gain the usual...".
> > So I guess the "key words" are "does not" and "cannot" and "are not".
> > :-)
> >
>
> > ----
> >
>
> Hmm, I don't know if there are any vampires with the wording
> 'must do X in order to Y'. If so then that might classify as a
> restriction as well.
Calebros the Matyr
If Calebros if the Prince of New York, any older Camarilla Vampire
controlled by another Methuselah can can steal his title from him as an
action which he cannot block.
So can the title still be stolen?
--
You will pay for you sins Michael F. Tomkins
m.to...@student.canberra.edu.au
If you have already paid University of Canberra, Australia.
Please disregard this notice http://student.canberra.edu.au/~u964617/
"Michael F. Tomkins" wrote:
>
> In article <3BE7E2C8...@netg.se>, st...@netg.se wrote:
>
> > LSJ wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Igo has a special restriction "does not gain the usual...".
> > > So I guess the "key words" are "does not" and "cannot" and "are not".
> > > :-)
> > >
> >
> > > ----
> > >
> >
> > Hmm, I don't know if there are any vampires with the wording
> > 'must do X in order to Y'. If so then that might classify as a
> > restriction as well.
>
> Calebros the Matyr
> If Calebros if the Prince of New York, any older Camarilla Vampire
> controlled by another Methuselah can can steal his title from him as an
> action which he cannot block.
>
> So can the title still be stolen?
Yes. Seeds only prevents the vampire from using his own special abilities,
by card text.
So Ventrue can still enter combat with a Seeded Kemintiri, Gangrel antitribu
can rush a Seeded Huang, Methuselahs can still cause Seeded Chas to fail, etc.
[ quoted text not captured ]
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
news:3BE94C85...@white-wolf.com...
> "Michael F. Tomkins" wrote:
> >
> > In article <3BE7E2C8...@netg.se>, st...@netg.se wrote:
> >
> > > LSJ wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Igo has a special restriction "does not gain the usual...".
> > > > So I guess the "key words" are "does not" and "cannot" and "are
not".
> > > > :-)
> > > >
> > >
> > > > ----
> > > >
> > >
> > > Hmm, I don't know if there are any vampires with the wording
> > > 'must do X in order to Y'. If so then that might classify as a
> > > restriction as well.
> >
> > Calebros the Matyr
> > If Calebros if the Prince of New York, any older Camarilla Vampire
> > controlled by another Methuselah can can steal his title from him as an
> > action which he cannot block.
> >
> > So can the title still be stolen?
>
> Yes. Seeds only prevents the vampire from using his own special abilities,
> by card text.
>
> So Ventrue can still enter combat with a Seeded Kemintiri, Gangrel
antitribu
> can rush a Seeded Huang, Methuselahs can still cause Seeded Chas to fail,
etc.
>
And we can't get a definitive list because...?
You have to admit it would be nice to compile a list for some sort of FAQ. I
bet The Lasombra needs something to "sink his teeth into".
-Mike Ooi
Mike Ooi wrote:
> And we can't get a definitive list because...?
Too long and (for the most part) too obvious.
You're welcome to compile one if your heart's set on it.
If you find any ones that aren't covered by the rulings presented so far, feel
free to ask.
When you've got the list finished, post it here.
> You have to admit it would be nice to compile a list for some sort of FAQ. I
> bet The Lasombra needs something to "sink his teeth into".
I don't think most of that list would qualify on the 'F' part, but OK.
[ quoted text not captured ]