Malkavian Dememtia Question

If I M.D. a tapped vampire do I get it untapped? What about when the owner gets it back--does he/she get it back tapped if I used it to bleed or something? Brian

bta...@henri.ma.utexas.edu (Brian Tandy) writes: [ quoted text not captured ] No Minion untapps just because he gets a new controller. If you M.D. a tapped vamp, he stays tapped in your controlled region. If you tap him, the owning Methuselah will get him back, tapped, when you stop controlling him (at the start of you untap phase - before you have the opportunity to untap him).

[ quoted text not captured ] >bta...@henri.ma.utexas.edu (Brian Tandy) writes: [ quoted text not captured ] I believe you are wrong about the original owner getting him back tapped if you use a vampire with M.D. on it. Somewhere in the rules it states that anything that occurs during untap phase (like returning M.D. vampires) happens after all yout cards have untapped.

> >>If I M.D. a tapped vampire do I get it untapped? What about when the > >>owner gets it back--does he/she get it back tapped if I used it to bleed > >>or something? > >No Minion untapps just because he gets a new controller. > >If you M.D. a tapped vamp, he stays tapped in your controlled region. > >If you tap him, the owning Methuselah will get him back, tapped, when > >you stop controlling him (at the start of you untap phase - before you > >have the opportunity to untap him). > I believe you are wrong about the original owner getting him > back tapped if you use a vampire with M.D. on it. > Somewhere in the rules it states that anything that occurs > during untap phase (like returning M.D. vampires) happens > after all yout cards have untapped. 12.1, Phase 0 - Untap: "Any cards requiring you to take an action during the untap phase take effect after you have untapped your cards." So the original owner will take back the mad vampire untapped. papillo the psychotic

pap...@fc.hp.com (Bob Ellison) writes: >> >>If I M.D. a tapped vampire do I get it untapped? What about when the >> >>owner gets it back--does he/she get it back tapped if I used it to bleed >> >>or something? >> >No Minion untapps just because he gets a new controller. >> >If you M.D. a tapped vamp, he stays tapped in your controlled region. >> >If you tap him, the owning Methuselah will get him back, tapped, when >> >you stop controlling him (at the start of you untap phase - before you >> >have the opportunity to untap him). >> I believe you are wrong about the original owner getting him >> back tapped if you use a vampire with M.D. on it. >> Somewhere in the rules it states that anything that occurs >> during untap phase (like returning M.D. vampires) happens Not "during", but "before" as in "you control it until your next untap" >> after all yout cards have untapped. >12.1, Phase 0 - Untap: "Any cards requiring you to take an action during >the untap phase take effect after you have untapped your cards." So >the original owner will take back the mad vampire untapped. But you only control the Malk UNTIL you next untap phase, not THROUGH your next untap phase, so when you're untapping your controlled minions, you've already lost control of the Malk. (and you don't untap Minions controlled by other Methuselah's) Which is also why you can't yield the Dementia'ed Malk (burning him if he is contested) - because you don't control him during your untap.

In article <3hatk0$o...@redwood.cs.scarolina.edu>, L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote: >pap...@fc.hp.com (Bob Ellison) writes: >>> >>What about when the >>> >>owner gets it back--does he/she get it back tapped if I used it to bleed >>> >>or something? >>> >If you tap him, the owning Methuselah will get him back, tapped, when >>> >you stop controlling him (at the start of you untap phase - before you >>> >have the opportunity to untap him). >>>I believe you are wrong about the original owner getting him >>>back tapped if you use a vampire with M.D. on it. >>>Somewhere in the rules it states that anything that occurs >>>during untap phase (like returning M.D. vampires) happens >Not "during", but "before" as in "you control it until your next untap" >>>after all yout cards have untapped. >>12.1, Phase 0 - Untap: "Any cards requiring you to take an action during >>the untap phase take effect after you have untapped your cards." So >>the original owner will take back the mad vampire untapped. >But you only control the Malk UNTIL you next untap phase, not THROUGH your >next untap phase, so when you're untapping your controlled minions, you've >already lost control of the Malk. (and you don't untap Minions controlled >by other Methuselah's) Is this an official ruling? If I have until April 15 to file my taxes, for example, I don't think I have to have my taxes filed at the very beginning of April 15, but rather I have until the end of that day. When we (you and I) encountered this situation in a game, we decided it would be untapped upon return to its owner. -- J. Hunter Johnson jhun...@io.com (Illuminati Online) jeff.j...@columbiasc.ncr.com (Windows Desktop) "What's the point of trying if you can't be a winner?" -- Calvin (5/7/93)

jhun...@pentagon.io.com (J. Hunter Johnson) writes: >L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote: [ Much talk of Malk dementia - returning the Malk to owner timing] >>But you only control the Malk UNTIL you next untap phase, not THROUGH your >>next untap phase, so when you're untapping your controlled minions, you've >>already lost control of the Malk. (and you don't untap Minions controlled >>by other Methuselahs) >Is this an official ruling? If I have until April 15 to file my taxes, >for example, I don't think I have to have my taxes filed at the very >beginning of April 15, but rather I have until the end of that day. You have until Midnight April 15. A moment, not a periord of time. Read the (very clear :-) instructions supplied with 1040-A. Example: a vampire can hunt until day. Does he hunt until the start of day, or the end of day? Calvin can play outside until night. Can he stay outside until nightfall or daybreak? You can use my lawnmower until spring. (Lawnmower Dementia :?) Do you give it back at the start or the end of Spring? (Most neighbors would never give it back, so this may be a bad example :-) Till Death do us part. Do we part at the onset of death, or once our mate is reincarnated? You control a Malkavian until your untap phase. Do you control it until your untap phase starts, or until it ends? Why the confusion? >When we (you and I) encountered this situation in a game, we decided >it would be untapped upon return to its owner. I have had more time to consider the logical arguments and have changed my mind. Only a fool stubbornly clings to one side of an argument without earnestly listening to other rational ideas :-).